Luas, Metro and DART – Drawings and Photomontages
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There is a bug in the forum software. I kept getting this error:
Your images may only be up to 800 pixels wide.
But they are 800px wide. I had to click ‘submit’ about 10 times and eventually they went through. Annoying.
Don’t suppose we could have stations similar to the Swedish subway system? I assume not.
http://luketechtips.com/a-neat-blog-about-tech/unbelievably-cool-swedish-subway-system.html
@Morlan wrote:
There is a bug in the forum software. I kept getting this error:
Your images may only be up to 800 pixels wide.
But they are 800px wide. I had to click ‘submit’ about 10 times and eventually they went through. Annoying.
It consulted experian, who said no
@PVC King wrote:
It consulted experian, who said no
Computer says ‘no’? I see.
You wouldn’t need a computer to see that Metro North wouldn’t even carry half the capacity of a Luas line; as we were told in college any concept put together on the back of a Major Box in terms of demand analysis is doomed.
Luas 6,000 passenger per hour
MN less than 3,000 in 2015 allowing for the moderate growth scenario compiled by the RPA.That interconnector was dumped for this white elephant is an utter disgrace…..
@PVC King wrote:
Luas 6,000 passenger per hour
MN less than 3,000 in 2015 allowing for the moderate growth scenario compiled by the RPA.That interconnector was dumped for this white elephant is an utter disgrace…..
The Luas Green line is completly inadequate at peak. It should have been a Metro from the beginning. The Fantasy Extention Winding Tour into the foothills of the Dublin mountains is absolutely ridiculous. The money should have been spent extending the Red Line to Ballyfermon and Lucan, where human beings live.
Interconnector is indeed important, VERY important, but the fact is is that it has not yet secured a Railway Order,’ nor has it a PPP consurtium to pay for it. Shame CIÉ didn’t get the app in 2 years ago.
Metty Norbo, as I have just decided to call it, already has the Railway Order and a few consortia lining up to pay for it.
Heck, PVC! The European Investment Bank want to give us .5 billion toward the project.
As a PPP project, Metty Norbo needs feck all funding from the tax payer. We start paying for it in 2018 when it’s completed.
DART Vunderground Express should have gone ahead before Metty Norbo, but CIÉ were too late in their Railway Order, eh, by 2 years, but Metro North is all ready to go.
There simply is not enough cash to build the Vunderground Express right now.
Bargain labour and material costs, PPP to pay for it, creating thousand of jobs. This is the best time to build Metro North.
metro north is ready to go back to the drawing board…
There are conditions…
There is no real architecture…
Ireland’s economic situation is worst than Egypt…
The minds are not open… The future is as vague and grey as concrete with bent tonight…https://archiseek.com/2011/riai-issue-election-manifesto-building-a-better-ireland/
@missarchi wrote:
metro north is ready to go back to the drawing board…
There are conditions…
There is no real architecture…
Ireland’s economic situation is worst than Egypt.APB eliminated three stops at Belinstown, Lissenhall and Seatown, and ordered the relocation of a depot and park and ride facility.
Great decision by the APB, but bad news for Fianna Fáil’s gombeen men that own the land north of Swords. Arseholes!Once/if Fine Gael approve the project, the RPA should consult with “the artists (us)” and check this link below and do something similar? :/
http://luketechtips.com/a-neat-blog-about-tech/unbelievably-cool-swedish-subway-system.html
@Morlan wrote:
APB eliminated three stops at Belinstown, Lissenhall and Seatown, and ordered the relocation of a depot and park and ride facility.
Great decision by the APB,You do realise that in so doing they removed over 20% of peak ridership; given that park and ride could have been provided anywhere between Dunleer and Donabate on the Northern line it was absolutely the correct decision to remove these stations.
It did however fatally damage the project, what the public are being asked to buy into is spending €3bn on a system with a capacity for 20,000 hourly peak when demand is less than 3,000 per hour or half what a Luas line can deliver. And yes Dart Underground is the cost of building it, despite all the assurances it wouldn’t be, still no connection between Dublin’s four existing rail lines, 3 of which excceded capacity 10 years ago.
With work on Metro North still scheduled to start in 2012, but DART Underground to be postponed due to cutbacks identified
in the Government’s National Recovery Plan, the opportunity must be grasped to re-evaluate the relative merits of both
projects writes Alice Charles of Planning and Transportation Consultants Colin Buchanan. The current ”‘first up best dressed” position taken by the Government in light of Metro North recently receiving a Railway Order from an Bord Pleanála, is another example of thestate failing to strategically plan and effectively evaluate public transport infrastructure provision in the Capital.As confirmed by Budget 2011, Metro North will proceed to ‘advance works’ stage next year, but is still subject to final Cabinet funding approval. The DART Underground project will proceed through the planning phase but will have no funding allocated for ay construction or enabling works phases before 2014. Observing the time period taken by the Board in reaching a decision in granting permission for the Metro North Project, a Railway Order for DART Underground should be forthcoming in late 2011. On reaching this stage, it is now generally assumed that the DART Underground project will then be shelved for two to three years on foot of current exchequer difficulties. However, the current crisis in government finances may be viewed as an opportunity to take stock of the strategic and economic benefits of both projects. With the conditions attached to the recent granting of the Railway Order by the Board, there is evidence to suggest that the timescales for both projects could converge over the coming years.
The Board’s decision in respect of Metro North to exclude the depot, stop and park and ride facility at Belinstown, the stop at
Lissenhall and to seek the relocation of the proposed depot to Dardistown, south of the Airport (presumed eventually to be a
shared facility in the event of the development of Metro West) allows breathing space in which the DART Underground proposal has the potential to reach an enabling works stage within a broadly similar timeframe. The shortening of the Metro North route, is the axing of parts of the proposed commuter catchment, most Dublin rail project are still in doubt.The shortening of the Metro North route, via the axing of parts of the proposed commuter catchment, must influence assumptions made pertaining to overall passenger numbers contained within the project’s Redacted Business Case published
in July 2010. Therefore the assumptions underpinning the project’s cost/benefit analysis should be the subject of a
comprehensive review. It is evident from the decision of the Board that it had reservations about the ability of the route, as proposed, to function effectively as a rapid transit service for Airport users at peak hours if the line extended beyond Swords. Assumptions regarding the potential development of lands and the subsequent economic benefits accruing to the Metro North
Economic Corridor included in its Business Case must also be called into question.The potential to regroup and fine-tune the whole Project should also be viewed in the context of the forthcoming Transport
Infrastructure Ireland Bill 2011, which makes legislative provision for the merger of the National Roads Authority and the Railway Procurement Agency. In combination, these factors have the potential to allow for a more focussed strategic review of all proposed rail projects in the Greater Dublin Area and their relative merits. In an ideal scenario all major public transport
projects should proceed in tandem, but in the event that prioritisation of projects is required, there is a strong case for
DART Underground becoming the primary investment focus from 2013 onwards. The call for the effective prioritisation of DART Underground and other connective Light Rail projects over the standalone Metro North as envisaged by the current
Government stance, is echoed by a recent Mid-Term review of the Transport 21 Programme undertaken on behalf of the
Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport by Professor Austin Smyth, a leading UK based Transport Consultant. This
report states that under current economic conditions and Government funding constraints, priority needs to be given in the short-term to seeking to maximise economic growth by ensuring construction of DART Underground and the Luas Cross-City BXD line as centrepieces of a conurbation-wide rail network.This report emphasises the superior Business Case and Wider Economic Benefits inherent in DART Underground. It considers the project to be the key to unlocking capacity on other routes and if necessary by other modes, which is an intrinsic element of the project. The Business case for Dart Underground identifies the project as having ‘exceptional’ benefits in relation to its costs if land use policies complement the application process. This should be viewed in the context of the recently adopted Dublin City
Development Plan 2011-2017, in particular the potential within the Plan to deliver revised statutory land use plans for the key
eastern and western poles of the interconnector at the Docklands and Heuston station and the identification of Connolly station
as a location for medium-high rise building clusters.
Moving out from central Dublin, the potential benefits are evident from delivering a large improvement in rail accessibility
to the city centre from a wide catchment area as there will be benefits for each of the four rail corridors radiating from the city
centre. The positive effects on all existing services, the potential for greater modal interchange across all forms of public transport and the far greater passenger capacity deliverable for a significantly lower capital outlay than that of Metro North,
should be the key influencing factors on any decision to be taken on progressing major rail projects by the incoming
administration in the Spring of 2011.
With Budget 2011 inevitably containing little to cheer about beyond vague commitments to capital investment in public
transport, the opportunity should be grasped to implement a full strategic review of the medium term objectives of DART
Underground, Metro North and mooted extensions to the Luas network, in order to effectively commit what limited exchequer
resources will be available over the next four years to advancing each respective project to its appropriate milestone while we
await an upturn in the state’s economic fortunes.
A ‘catch-up’ approach should be employed for 2011/2012 to allow DART Underground to reach a similar footing to Metro North in the project delivery process. This would allow for a reexamination of the proposed funding mechanisms that are to be employed by both the RPA and Iarnród Éireann under the Public Private Partnership model. Budget 2011 has flagged that the National Pensions Reserve Fund (NPRF) is willing to invest in Irish infrastructure assets on a commercial basis in partnership with third party institutional investors. The Government has committed to finding opportunities for the NPRF and other private investors.
With the above in mind, it would prove prudent for all major rail projects to be allowed to reach the same stage of implementation over the next 18 months, so that a critical appraisal of all capital investment in public transport may be
undertaken to shape the distribution of what limited funding will be available in a manner not shown in the Transport 21
investment programme.
Alice Charles is an Associate Director Planner in Colin Buchanan’s Dublin Office. http://www.colinbuchanan.comhttp://www.magico.ie/files/admin/uploads/W153_Field_2_55223.pdf
This is an excellently balanced critique of the situation with very sensible conclusions; a practice of International reknown has lived up to its reputation. There is only one credible outcome shelve all projects until a proper review is undertaken.
@PVC King wrote:
You do realise that in so doing they removed over 20% of peak ridership
The park and ride will be moved to somewhere around the Malahide estuary, as recommended by APB. The depot will be located in Dardistown, along with another P&R for the M50.
@PVC King wrote:
when demand is less than 3,000 per hour or half what a Luas line can deliver. .
Show me where you could route a Luas Line from the City Centre to Ballymun and Swords. Luas would not have the capacity nor frequency for such a route. This has already been discussed at length on Boards.
The park and ride will be moved to somewhere around the Malahide estuary, as recommended by APB.
An Bord simply removed the park and ride they did not suggest where it should go; as anyone who remembers soundbites will head in cupboard’s one of “The Swans and the Snails” which referred to a rare snail that cost a lot of money and time on the Kildare Bypass and the Swans were those that call the Broadmeadow Estury protected habitat. The park and ride can go to Donabate and use the Northern line; end of inflating the figures, the figures need to relate to unique user trips that specific catchments generate; the further up the northern line park and ride goes the less strain is put on the M1.
The depot will be located in Dardistown, along with another P&R for the M50.
Why in gods name would you put a park n ride on the M50? N3 has rail at Blanch, M1 has a choice of other locations to build one including Gormanstown, Balibriggan and Donabate. I am in no doubt that An Bord identified the lack of ridership on the catchment and chose to expose it by eliminating the park and ride passenger demand to undermine the project fatally in a manner that saw them retain their track record of not refusing one large scale infrastrucuture project but making it so unviable that the bean counters would veto it; they chose to do so in a way that clearly exposed the emperor’s clear nudity but kept them off a collision course with the autocratic Lenihan Bros government.
Show me where you could route a Luas Line from the City Centre to Ballymun and Swords.
Luas BX to Constitution Hill near Broadstone, disused canal, tunnel from Royal Canal to football pitch at Tolka river, St Mobhi Road surface to north of Ballymun before taking the proposed RPA alignment to Swords.
Luas would not have the capacity nor frequency for such a route.
43m Luas carries 430 people, demand for this line is less than 3,000; Luas at intervals of 9 minutes has spare capacity even to handle peak demand which allows for 5 years of moderate growth. 4 minute intervals delivers 6,450 passengers per hour peak. Metro North with a design spec of 20,000 would not hit capacity off a sub 3,000 base for hundred plus years.
The issue is not both Dublin Underground and Metro north and which comes first; it is a question of which gets built; spreading densification and development potential across 4 development corridors through Dublin Underground makes a lot more sense than building a project at half the demand levels to justify Luas capacity.
Why does a ranking exercise scare the proponents of Metro North so much?
@PVC King wrote:
Luas BX to Constitution Hill near Broadstone, disused canal, tunnel from Royal Canal to football pitch at Tolka river, St Mobhi Road surface to north of Ballymun before taking the proposed RPA alignment to Swords.
Like this? http://goo.gl/maps/ucpR
Pretty much, I’d have gone up the West side of Parnell Square to avoid the car-parks at the Ilac and soon to be Dublin Central; the key blockage is the N2 entering the City at Phibsboro; everything else in manageable at grade (airport excluded) The journey times would be a probably 3-5 minutes slower and a few cpo’s would be required; but with a saving of close to €2bn and much lower ongoing operating costs by eliminating 7 underground concourses it is a very small price to pay.
Cobbles necessary? We’re losing symmetry.
Updated route map showing cut n’ cover and elevated sections.
http://bit.ly/hnKpP4Warning over any cancellation of Metro North
06 March 2011 By John Burke and Nicola Cooke
Ireland’s credibility in managing major procurement projects would be dealt a serious blow if the incoming government cancelled the Metro North project, according to an internal memo prepared by senior transport department officials.
The Fine Gael-led administration has only two viable options concerning Metro North: to cancel the project or to approve it immediately, according to the briefing document which was drafted in recent weeks for the outgoing government.
The memorandum, which was obtained by The Sunday Business Post under the Freedom of Information Acts, strongly advances the argument against delaying the project. ‘‘There is a strong view that a further delay to Metro North is not an option,” it states.
Any decision to axe the long awaited 18 kilometre route would ‘‘undermine the credibility of the Irish government as a counterparty to PPP [Public Private Partnership] deals’’.
‘‘The PPP process commenced three years ago [and] the PPP bidders have invested substantial amounts in bidding for Metro North and continue to spend money keeping their teams mobilised,” it says.
‘‘If the project does not proceed based on this competition it is highly unlikely that bidders with the requisite skills would invest the substantial sums required again to put another bid together,” the memo says.
In addition to undermining Ireland’s credibility as a partner in PPP deals, any decision to cancel the project could also have a ‘‘serious impact’’ on other major infrastructure investment projects and on deals in other sectors, the memo says.
The memo said the Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) provided the national transport authority with an update to its business case in December, indicating that the cost-benefit ratio was still at 2:1 – meaning €2 returned in revenue for every €1 spent.
Dealing with the question of whether the Dart Underground project should proceed ahead of Metro North, the memo went on to say that while both demonstrated strong economic cases, it was ‘‘significant’’ that Metro North had reached implementation stage, while the planning approval process for the Dart Underground project could take 12 months or more.
An Bord Pleanála granted planning approval for a railway order last October, but did not grant permission for the last three stops and train depot at Belinstown.
As a result, the RPA is now redrafting plans to submit a new application for a depot at the end of the line in Dardistown.
However, the agency is ready to begin ancillary works on the project – such as realigning utility lines and moving city centre monuments – but the outgoing government did not sign a commencement order for this.
The Sunday Business Post previously revealed that one of the bidders had given serious consideration to quitting the process because of the ongoing delays with it.
The Celtic Metro and Metro Express consortiums have both invested several million euro in the project over the last five years.
Does that include the the Irish Times extension?
@Morlan wrote:
Cobbles necessary? We’re losing symmetry.
I think the big purple tram hurtling down one side of the street might do a job on the symmetry too…
http://www.fingal-independent.ie/news/metro-rebrand-planned-2819980.html
METRO North is set to be delayed by a number of years, overhauled and rebranded, as the Government looks to deliver a light railway for north Dublin on its own merits.
The Fingal Independent can exclusively reveal the Fine Gael-Labour coalition is considering temporarily shelving the project, before proceeding with an inclusive revised scheme under a new name, which will incorporate the DART interconnector and possibly Metro West.
Of the three major rail projects currently under consideration, the connection of the Luas lines (BDX) is the likeliest to be given the goahead this September, when Transport Minister, Leo Varadkar, announces the results of a viability review, highly-placed sources have said.
Local TD and Minister for Health, Dr James Reilly, refused to be drawn on the proposal, but admitted the funding problems had to be addressed in order to move the project forward.
‘I, as a Minister in Dublin North, am still of the view that this project is a vital driver for new business and jobs for Dublin North and the economic corridor from north Dublin to Dundalk,’ Minister Reilly said.
Meanwhile, a rally in favour of Metro North will take place outside the Department of Transport on Thursday. METRO North is set to be delayed by a number of years, overhauled and rebranded as the Government looks to deliver a light railway for north Dublin on its own merits.
The Fingal Independent can exclusively reveal the Fine Gael-Labour coalition is considering temporarily shelving the project, before proceeding with an inclusive revised scheme under a new name, which will incorporate the Dart interconnector and possibly Metro West.
Of the three major rail projects currently under consideration, the connection of the Luas lines (BDX) is the likeliest to be given the go-ahead this September, when Transport Minister, Leo Varadkar, announces the results of a viability review, highly-placed sources have said.
‘It is being considered at the moment that the Metro North project as we know it will be overhauled and the interconnector and Metro North may be integrated and delivered as the one project,’ a source said.
‘Some elements of influence will be that the Metro North brand is now perceived to be ‘negative’ because of the uncertainty surrounding it and the current Government are considering rebranding the project and stamping their own mark on it, rather than delivering on a Fianna Fáil-led proposal.
‘ This is expected to drag out the delivery of the light rail network into north Dublin for several more years and in September, the Government will look at a restructure to deliver it and the interconnector as one plan.
‘BDX will be going ahead to serve the Grangegorman campus where all the DIT colleges will be relocated. It’s the most deliverable at the moment.
‘This may even throw a lifeline to Metro West. Metro North needs to go ahead for Metro West to happen, but with it being in the constituency of Minister Leo Varadkar and Minister Joan Burton, with restructuring, they could be looking at it as one big picture.’
Local TD and Minister for Health, Dr James Reilly, refused to be drawn on the proposal, but said the future of Metro was dependent on funding.
‘The Metro North project will be part of the review of all capital projects, which is not due out until September,’ Minister Reilly said.
‘I, as a minister in Dublin North, am still of the view that this project is a vital driver for new business and jobs for Dublin North and the economic corridor from north Dublin to Dundalk.
‘Funding problems have to be addressed in order to move this project forward.’
NEW York-style yellow cabs could soon hit the streets in Dublin.
The National Transport Authority (NTA) has proposed a “distinctive external branding” for the taxi fleet “such as a single colour”.
The suggestion forms part of the NTA’s public consultation process on vehicle standards for the taxis, hackneys and limousines.
If the regulation was to be introduced, the colour would have to be decided on at a later date, with yellow a possibility. The change would apply in Dublin and countrywide.
Other changes to be considered include a requirement to renew taxi licences every six months for vehicles more than nine years old.
The NTA also suggests imposing an upper age limit of 14 years for vehicles beyond which the drivers would not be issued with licences.
WRAP
In addition, it is proposed to exclude pick-up trucks for use as taxis and ban tinted windows.
But the most eye-catching change is the proposal to impose a standard branding “such as a single colour, ‘vehicle wrap’ or decal”.
Submissions from members of the public on the proposals can be made up to August 5.
Taxi regulator Kathleen Doyle said: “As ever, we are aware that we need to strike a balance between achieving standards that offer the customer confidence, comfort and safety, and allowing industry members to operate successfully in the economic circumstances.
“We want to hear from everyone that has an interest in the industry, including drivers and passengers.
“We will also be meeting stakeholder groups nationwide to get their feedback.”
submissions
She added: “In addition, the Government’s taxi regulation review steering group will be more wide-ranging in its approach … particularly in relation to vehicle standards. However, this consultation process, carried out by the National Transport Authority, will feed into the review group and submissions will be incorporated as appropriate into the review group’s findings and recommendations.”
The NTA said a new code of regulations for vehicle standards was expected to be introduced on a phased basis starting in the first half of 2012.
The proposal on the colour of taxis was first mooted a number of years ago but was abandoned because of the high cost involved for drivers. The suggestion had formed part of a 2005 report on the taxi industry by Goodbody Consultants but was never implemented.
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Hadnt heard anything about this but…t’would appear that Third Rail technology is a viable (if slightly more expensive – €18m – option for Luas BXD. A report commissioned by An Bord Pleanala has cast doubts on the RPAs claims that it wouldnt work. The report can be viewed via DCBA site http://www.dcba.ie/?p=536
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