Luas, Metro and DART – Drawings and Photomontages
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Meanwhile, in Ireland, this is the crap proposed for St. Stephen’s Green, which “will be to Dublin what Grand Central is to New York” (according to Martin Cullen in 2005).
With that mans record on heritage and treatment of the park in the proposed construction phase of the soon to be abandoned Metro North station at St Green; I’m surprised he didn’t sanction a Grand Central Scale overground station on Stephens Green (i.e. the OPW Park) continuing via Fitwilliam Square, Upper Mount Street and Beggers Bush to connect with the Dart line at Havelock Square.
I’d not get carried away by the London images; that image is for Canary Wharf or Heathrow? Very different scale requirement to one city centre station in Dublin; designing a good concourse with architectural input would be no harm on the Interconnector. MN won’t be intersecting at Stephens Green for decades if ever.
@PVC King wrote:
the soon to be abandoned Metro North station at St Green;
…..
MN won’t be intersecting at Stephens Green for decades if ever.Snap out of it, mate.
Work is starting in 7 months.Bank costs to swell deficit – ESRI
Wednesday, 14 July 2010 15:33
The Economic and Social Research Institute says the cost of providing extra capital to Anglo Irish Bank and Irish Nationwide will have to be included in the national accounts, and will push the government deficit from 11.5% to 19.75% of economic output – by far the highest in the developed world.The report indicates that 120,000 people will have left Ireland in the two years to next April.
Read more detail on the report here
Meanwhile, the International Monetary Fund has praised the Government’s moves to support the banks and tackle the budget deficit, saying they had helped stabilise the economy. Read more on the IMF view here
Spend on training, urges ESRI
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=%5EVIX
LONDON (ShareCast) –
LONDON (Dow Jones)–A consortium of City investors is close to seizing control of a third of Britain’s trains for about GBP1.7 billion, said U.K. newspaper The Times on Sunday citing sources close to the situation.
The investors, 3i Infrastructure PLC (3IN.LN), Morgan Stanley Infrastructure and Star Capital, have teamed up to buy the rolling stock leasing business owned by HSBC Holdings PLC (HSBA.LN).
It owns 4,000 U.K. trains, including several distinctive fleets such as the Intercity 225 trains, that run between London and Edinburgh and the Javelin high-speed commuter trains that provide services between London and Kent.
The business was one of three created and sold off when British rail was broken up in 1990s.
The private consortium has been given a period of exclusivity to finalise the deal and a price of GBP1.7 billion has almost been agreed with the deal expected to close by the end of the month, said the newspaper citing sources close to the situation.
3i, Morgan Stanley and HSBC were not immediately available to commentCan we take it that the rolling stock would be leased; cutting the costs of the capital project but swelling the ongoing overhead? i.e. That the figures quoted do not pay for the entire project?
I’m pretty sure those are just proof of concept renders rather than actual final design renders from the architects.. there was a lot of talk about “iconic” station designs that reflect their region, so fingers crossed we’ll see that.
I’m more interested in how they are going to brand all of this now though. I think there’s a lot to learn from London here, unification is key. Everything; the luas, DART, buses, bikes, metros – should all come under Transport for Dublin and be unified with a common branidng, smartcard and transport map.
This, together, will be revolutionary for the city.
@Yixian wrote:
I’m more interested in how they are going to brand all of this now though. I think there’s a lot to learn from London here, unification is key. Everything; the luas, DART, buses, bikes, metros – should all come under Transport for Dublin and be unified with a common brandng, smartcard and transport map.
They achieved common branding in the 80’s with both Dart and Dublin Buses carrying green livery. It was only in the mid 90s afaik that DB deviated with separate ‘City Swift’ branded double deckers and short-hop ‘imps’. Latterly luas, bikes have all developed their own colour schemes – while Irish Rail have allowed the visual appearance of Dart stations deteriorate beyond belief 🙁
Yixian is spot on – a map, smartcard and common branding is the way forward.
IMO the livery of all dublin transport (minus luas) needs to be updated for the 21st century. The Dart looks 100 years old and the Dublin Bus livery is hideous.
which photos are the same station by different people?
and what are the differences which one was done first?Yixian, have you ever been to an Irish train station? Because those renders look like exactly the type of thing that Irish Rail builds 🙁
http://two.archiseek.com/2010/clongriffin-station-iarnrod-eireann-architects/
Irish Rail have obviously gotten their ‘in-house design team’ (see above) to do it, because it looks exactly like the same, sterile, cheap materials that they’ve used in every other station. Form tends to fall waaaaay behind function with them.
Why can’t they make a point of teaming up for an Irish architecture firm for an overall design concept. Or have different architects for each station. I just wish they’d do something/anything exciting. It’s not a big ask when you’re spending billions on infrastructure that is to last over 100 years!
I agree on the branding btw.
Curious – while the stations have large external place names in Irish (especially helpful for Gaeltacht visitors who have forgotten their English) and sometimes in English, nothing whatever says this is a Metro entrance,:D or whatever the thing is eventually called.
@dc3 wrote:
Curious – while the stations have large external place names in Irish (especially helpful for Gaeltacht visitors who have forgotten their English) and sometimes in English, nothing whatever says this is a Metro entrance,:D or whatever the thing is eventually called.
Yep, pretty awful, but they are just intial renders.
I was reading two recent discussions on Boards about signage and branding.
The Official Language Act brought in new guidelines back in 2008 that require all government bodies to erect fully bilingual signage. The Irish has to come first and be larger than or equal to the English text below it.
Maybe that´s why the renders are in Irish only with English to the side?
Also, the National Transport Agency want to have a single brand (and possibly livery) for all Dublin transport. e.g. DART, Bus, Luas, Metro.
Which sounds great, but will it ever happen?
Aha thanks Morlan. I was wondering why the signs on the platforms of the Luas line to Point Village are different to the existing lines. The new arrangement of equally sized text for English and Irish is jarring, difficult to read, and visually unpleasant. The former arrangement was much clearer.
Indeed, the smaller text gave an elegance to the Gaeilge, which now looks hamfisted and arrogant, and makes you wish it wasn’t there at all.
Buckmister fuller roofs!
I would prefer micaceous oxide paint to that white paint.
Glass will always get smashed…
White tiles/walls will always look dirty.@GrahamH wrote:
The new arrangement of equally sized text for English and Irish is jarring, difficult to read, and visually unpleasant. The former arrangement was much clearer.
Indeed, the smaller text gave an elegance to the Gaeilge, which now looks hamfisted and arrogant, and makes you wish it wasn’t there at all.
It is indeed a load of arse, but now Gaeilge has to be larger or the same size and as prominent as “ze English”. This does not apply to traffic signage.
Personally, I can read the new Luas signage just fine. But I would prefer that both lingos were differentiated somehow.
Being Morlan, I took out some crayons (sorry).
Current signage
English in italics
Irish in less visible font, which goes against the regulations, so not possible.
Irish in bold, English in normal.I think that is pretty much the choice in relation to new signage. 😮
As mentioned, the regulations can be downloaded here.
If my examples do not follow the regulations, I welcome your ideas. 🙂
who got da font?
Given that Metro and Luas will both be light-rail systems and the plan is for both to be interoperable, I would imagine that Metro stations will have a graphical continuity with Luas stations, ie, they’ll look pretty much the same.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0913/1224278759275.html
Council opposes overhead cables on cross-city Luas line
DUBLIN CITY Council is opposing a plan to use overhead power cables on the proposed cross-city Luas line because of their detrimental effect on the city’s “exceptional” and “exquisite” architecture.
The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) wants to use the same overhead power supply system on the new line, which will link the Sandyford and Tallaght lines before continuing on to Broombridge in Cabra, as it does on the existing lines.
However, the council said the proposal was not acceptable in the city centre. The route the Luas will take – from St Stephen’s Green, down Dawson Street, through College Green, across O’Connell Bridge, and up O’Connell Street to Parnell Square – passes the city’s most significant public buildings, it said.
College Green in particular consisted of a “progression of exceptional classical buildings”, including the “exquisite” portico of the Bank of Ireland, which should not be compromised by cables and wires. Comparisons made by the RPA in relation to the wiring used by early 20th century trams in the city centre were “not an argument of weight” in the context of best-practice building conservation, the council said.
The RPA should provide an alternative wire-free system, the council argued. It said it was in favour of the overall project but it urged An Bord Pleanála to make it a condition of the railway order that St Stephen’s Green to Parnell Square be a wire-free zone.
The council’s position is supported by the Dublin Civic Trust, which submitted that the overhead lines would have a damaging impact on “large swathes of the ceremonial core of the city”. The Irish Georgian Society is also against the use of overhead lines.
The RPA June applied to An Bord Pleanála last for a railway order to construct the new line. A date for a public hearing on the project is expected to be announced soon by the planning board.
The RPA said it investigated a wire-free option that has been used on trams in Bordeaux in France since 2003. The system uses a third rail embedded in the road between the tram tracks which becomes energised as it hits connectors underneath the tram, but switches off when the tram passes.
However, the RPA said the technology was still new and there were concerns over its robustness, reliability and safety; and it was “substantially” more expensive.
A second bone of contention for the council is that the RPA’s plans to run the Luas along the central plaza of O’Connell Street. The council had undertaken a major improvement scheme of the street in recent years and the widened median was the central element of the design. The proposed alignment would “detrimentally affect the integrity of the newly completed scheme,” the council said, and should not be permitted.
😉
you have scored 1 point out of 1000 :p
I still don’t like the border of 1 & 2
@missarchi wrote:
who got da font?
Yes, your sign is very nice and Parisian. Unfortunately, it is in breach of the regulations 😉
@Morlan wrote:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0913/1224278759275.html
Council opposes overhead cables on cross-city Luas line
DUBLIN CITY Council is opposing a plan to use overhead power cables on the proposed cross-city Luas line because of their detrimental effect on the city’s “exceptional” and “exquisite” architecture.
The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) wants to use the same overhead power supply system on the new line, which will link the Sandyford and Tallaght lines before continuing on to Broombridge in Cabra, as it does on the existing lines.
However, the council said the proposal was not acceptable in the city centre. The route the Luas will take – from St Stephen’s Green, down Dawson Street, through College Green, across O’Connell Bridge, and up O’Connell Street to Parnell Square – passes the city’s most significant public buildings, it said.
College Green in particular consisted of a “progression of exceptional classical buildings”, including the “exquisite” portico of the Bank of Ireland, which should not be compromised by cables and wires. Comparisons made by the RPA in relation to the wiring used by early 20th century trams in the city centre were “not an argument of weight” in the context of best-practice building conservation, the council said.
The RPA should provide an alternative wire-free system, the council argued. It said it was in favour of the overall project but it urged An Bord Pleanála to make it a condition of the railway order that St Stephen’s Green to Parnell Square be a wire-free zone.
The council’s position is supported by the Dublin Civic Trust, which submitted that the overhead lines would have a damaging impact on “large swathes of the ceremonial core of the city”. The Irish Georgian Society is also against the use of overhead lines.
The RPA June applied to An Bord Pleanála last for a railway order to construct the new line. A date for a public hearing on the project is expected to be announced soon by the planning board.
The RPA said it investigated a wire-free option that has been used on trams in Bordeaux in France since 2003. The system uses a third rail embedded in the road between the tram tracks which becomes energised as it hits connectors underneath the tram, but switches off when the tram passes.
However, the RPA said the technology was still new and there were concerns over its robustness, reliability and safety; and it was “substantially” more expensive.
A second bone of contention for the council is that the RPA’s plans to run the Luas along the central plaza of O’Connell Street. The council had undertaken a major improvement scheme of the street in recent years and the widened median was the central element of the design. The proposed alignment would “detrimentally affect the integrity of the newly completed scheme,” the council said, and should not be permitted.
The delivery of on street mass transit on the Country’s main street is no small undertaking; it is a provision that will have many knock on implications to the built environment not least of which are important civic buildings on the Wide Streets Commission’s central spine from Parnell Sq to College Green.
The DCC observation appears to focus on two areas; firstly the third rail which seems has more or less universal support apart from the RPA.
Secondly DCC seem to be of the opinion that it will undermine the O’Connell St refit done in 2003/04; on this I disagree for two reasons firstly should the third rail system be introduced the damage could be limited to one lane of traffic; secondly and more importantly should the dominence of buses and cars not be tackled on this one key civic space.
I would suggest that should Luas be extended North that many of the routes currently using O’Connell Street would no longer need to do so; I would also suggest that Capel Street is underused in terms of bus usage.
There is a golden opportunity for Luas to transform O’Connell St by using a third rail and utilising the median as platforms with the doors opening inwards; all that would be required to keep O’Connell St moving would be a reduction in bus traffic and to ensure that bus stops were restricted to areas where they could be recessed into the footpath allowing a dedicated Luas lane, and a bus/cycle lane from the existing two lanes.
As the OCS fit out would be c10 years old by the time the route were delivered maybe some updating of what is a very good core design may be no bad thing.
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