Luas, Metro and DART – Drawings and Photomontages
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@Morlan wrote:
It was reveled yesterday that the government has axed many of Transport 21’s projects due to no cash (quelle surprise!).
I’m not saying that you’re incorrect, but the article is clear that:
“No projects have been cancelled and Transport 21 continues to provide the strategic framework for capital spending on transport infrastructure into the future.”
“Government sources confirmed vulnerable projects included four Metro/Luas schemes — Metro West, Luas lines from Cherrywood to Bray, Lucan to the city centre and St Stephen’s Green to Liffey Junction.”
This indicates, to me, that while 4 of the projects are vulnerable either some or all may not be cancelled.
The only projects that have actually been cancelled so far are the:
“Nine new motorway rest areas planned for the M7 (Limerick), M8 (Cork), M9 (Waterford), M3 (Cavan) and N11 (Wexford)”The announcement as to what projects other than the rest areas that are actually cancelled will be announced next week, but I definitely believe it would be insane to build the MN without doing BXD at the same time. Postpone the other projects, but at least get the BXD as far as DIT/Grangegorman.
@Frank Taylor wrote:
Looks like the taxi rank on OCS will have to go 🙂
There will be only one lane left for northbound traffic: will this be a bus lane? If so that means no cars going north on OCS from Westmoreland street or turning left from Bachelor’s Walk.
Where will a bike lane fit in on OCS?
Should we buy the Bordeaux-style ground level power supply instead of overhead catenary? The French seem to have had teething problems but maybe they’re resolved now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-level_power_supplyLast thing we need is a load more poles.
I’m assuming they are not using the ground level power because the BXD will be connecting to the existing luas line. Why they didn’t use this in the first place is a good question – obviously it’s to do with cost.
Renders from the DART Underground Railway Order
Stephen’s Green station
Stephen’s Green station
Pearse station
Pearse station
Pearse station
Pearse station
Docklands
Docklands & “Station Square”
Docklands
Inchicore station
Christ Church
Christ ChurchThey is more but the site went down when I was downloading the PDFs.
http://www.dartundergroundrailwayorder.ie/It appears for the Pearse st enterance that the sky bridge and that trinity owned building will be demolished, is this the case?
Page 17 option PB guess the best option was discounted because of perceived severe traffic impacts… Bailey bridges?
Museum of Ireland against it… hmmm makes you wonder inside city walls… There are many examples of stations incorporating these elements guess they didn’t want to follow best practice and urban design.It also seems there is only one station style and that is crossrail.
I like the website it pulls out all the stops.@OisinT wrote:
I’m assuming they are not using the ground level power because the BXD will be connecting to the existing luas line.
The Bordeaux system uses ground level power in the centre but the trams switch to overhead in the suburbs. I assume they haven’t proposed ground level supply because the cost might sink the project.
Why they didn’t use this in the first place is a good question – obviously it’s to do with cost.
It was innovative and didn’t work well at first. Far better for us to let the French iron out the problems before we use it.
By the time BXD is being constructed (2016?) we may feel we have the money for ground level power.
The Bordeaux system uses ground level power in the centre but the trams switch to overhead in the suburbs. I assume they haven’t proposed ground level supply because the cost might sink the project.
So save on the third rail and build a bridge and divert twice as many utilities instead…………
The piece on Bordeaux states that the costs of third rail are 300% those of conventional suspended wires; the question is how much does conventional suspended wiring cost? What is the top slice that suspending as invisibly as possible from Grade 1 protected structures in a sensitive area in heritage terms cost? I would not be surprised if the additional costs for a third rail on BX to the top of O’Connell St / Parnell Square were manageable in the context of a direct route being adopted and vastly reduced utility diversion costs and complete elimination of the bridge saving… The project as it stands is another timewarp back to the ‘Boom just got Boomier’ Era it needs to reflect current fiscal realities.
Absolutely. On pain of this project not going ahead, BXD without question must be powered in an alternative manner to overhead cables. There is little point going back into this discussion, having exhausted it at considerable length a couple of years ago, when all the arguments were rehearsed. If we are to develop a high quality city core, it is essential that the protection of the aesthetic qualities of its principal streets and iconic flagship spaces is given the very highest consideration.
This is backwards technology for a city that is looking to achieve international standards of design recognition through the new Development Plan, the new Public Realm Strategy, the application for UNESCO World Heritage status, and the application for European Design Capital 2014. In fact, it utterly flies in the face of the principal objectives all of these strategies for a quality ceremonial city core based on respect for its built heritage, inherent streetscape character and design excellence. It makes a mockery of public investment in such initiatives if there is not a strong and concerted agreement and vision for the city on the part of the capital’s planning authority as to what happens to what is effectively the front room of the State, over which it has jurisdiction and moral authority, with regard to the impact of a highly invasive project such as this. The fact it has even got this far, speaks volumes over such a commitment – it should never have got to this stage, even in the late 1990s, never mind the current cabled proposal.
Of course, the Luas BXD route is but a drop in the ocean relative to the collective impact of it, Metro and DART Underground, but the effects of the latter two are at least largely confined to the construction phase. Luas BXD by contrast will have a lasting impact on the city core that will be nigh on impossible to rectify for many years. The decision on its powering at this juncture is also critical in terms of determining the impact of potential future routes, such as along Dame Street, Christchurch Place and Thomas Street. Again, the impact of cabling shall be a major issue long this important route.
The effects of multiple platforms and the impact on public realms generally along BXD, having inspected the plans, is a topic so vast as to make one weary, but these issues can be resolved. It’s the cabling that’s going to be a considerable uphill struggle to push for change with – something that demands coherent and collective agreement amongst a number of bodies, persons and authorities to help achieve, not to mention real vision at ABP level.
You are totally right the Historical Civic Core of the City is having its largest intervention in many decades through the Luas link up. Clearly a step needs to be taken back to get a sophisticated urbananist solution.
The Bordeaux third rail idea is from an urbanist perspective the only solution that will preserve the most important vistas in the city. In addition the ridding of cars from that area will create an area of real value; the leisure potential is vast.
What needs to be done to acheive it?
Stop thinking like engineers and start thinking about the user experience, as tourists, as commuters and as shoppers; on street Luas from Sandyford to Swords and a third rail from Stephens Green to Parnell Street paid for many times over from the billions saved by ditching a metro that no one knows the cost of and the passenger loadings don’t exist to justify; what could be more pleasant than getting on a tram in DCU and getting off into a pristine wire free College Green with no steps, escalators, CCTV cameras etc?
Interconnector will be less user freindly but as a workhorse it is more a system fix than designed to be user freindly…
I am prepared to pay for a submission on BXD if Graham is prepared to write it…. More to the point the interim dividend from my CRH holding will pay for it….
Graham is willing to prepare a submission if PVC King is willing to pay him 😀
Ha. All joking aside, this is a very serious issue which, judging by the level of concern previously expressed amongst many of the engaged Archiseek community over this matter, is something that we need to get active on to make our concerns known. If even half the time previously spent on the last discussion on the Luas Central Corridor thread was diverted into a concise submission or three, we’d be getting somewhere.
A picture is a thousand words.
What are peoples thoughts on the station designs and underground interiors?
Are the stations actually going to look that bland?
@damcw wrote:
What are peoples thoughts on the station designs and underground interiors?
Are the stations actually going to look that bland?
What do you mean? There’s plenty of space there to erect cheap advertising :rolleyes:
Not to go totally off tangent, on the Dart line it is remarkable to see how the originally tightly co-ordinated uniform colour scheme has been let totally disappear at stations and along the line – where once there was green with rainbow elements, now its often any colour or simply not painted at all 🙁
To be fair to them they do capture the essence of the bland, uninspired, directionless, trivial nation we strive to be.
Missarchi has been doing a good job compiling images of metros from around the world, in her/his update today is a station in Moscow:
The full thread is here.
Meanwhile, in Ireland, this is the crap proposed for St. Stephen’s Green, which “will be to Dublin what Grand Central is to New York” (according to Martin Cullen in 2005).
Now of course budget is an issue, but I don’t believe that an architect was involved in the design above. These are stations that possibly hundreds of thousands of people will go through each day! If we’re going to spend billions on their construction, I don’t think it’s too much to ask for a bit of effort to be put into the interiors.
In London, they are taking the issue of station design seriously for their Crossrail project. There were architecture groups lobbying for a Chief Architect to be appointed to the project. Are there no groups in Ireland looking for something similar? I’m actually shocked at the silence, even on this website, about the renders above. It isn’t acceptable!
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