Luas Central – Which Route?
- This topic has 319 replies, 62 voices, and was last updated 16 years ago by
.
- Posts
I honestly don’t know what this obsession is with running the Luas down O’Connell Street if the end product is to integrate with the Maynooth line. Swing a spur off the Red Line near the Four Courts and up Consititution Hill and on towards Liffey Junction. Problem solved, no need to tear up O’Connell Street.
We have to get away from this An Larism. I am a massive fan of Luas and want to see it cover as much of the city and suburbs as possible, but sending it down O’Connell Street to connect with the Maynooth line when the same thing can be achieved by routing though Broadstone or the old canal aligment is just plain silly.
Heads up – theres a discussion about the digging up of O’Connell st to accomodate the Luas link up shortly on http://www.newstalk.ie/ City Edition – Listen Live.
Not much to it really – basically the RPA guy said that they expect to have passangers on it by 2009. it’ll cost €100,000,000 to do it. As far as I could make out Plan A was the one, the segment of the show was all about cutting up O’Connell St. and distruption, just after the current O’Connell St. regeneration is complete.
@murphaph wrote:
Just in time for the RPA to dig it all up for Luas line BX and then Metro! 😀 Of course in the grand scheme of things it’s not a problem that we have the money to build mass transit systems, just seems an awful pity that all the work will be torn up so soon after completion.
Yes but it remains to be seen whether Bx goes up o’connell, granted it probably will go as far as abbey street. The metro (at 2 billion for a tunnel with no escalators , i am not sure that will ever happen.
I don’t think the full impact of the port tunnel has been realised in this respect.A new bus service will probably start between, busaras the (freed up) north and the airport via the port tunnel.While it’s not as sexy as a metro it would be as quick given that the metro will have lots of stops. Ryanair’s micheal o’leary has pointed out that the interest on the metro would pay for everyone to get a free bus ride to the airport.If any economic sense is involved the metro will not get the go ahead and the interconnector will!
Originally posted by a boyle
Ryanair’s micheal o’leary has pointed out that the interest on the metro would pay for everyone to get a free bus ride to the airport.If any economic sense is involved the metro will not get the go ahead and the interconnector will!Obviously Michael O’Leary doesn’t live in Swords! I do and I’m salivating for the Metro. Salivating.
please ! running luas up o’connell street is just wrong, all wrong !!!!!!!!! running it as far as abbey is bad enough, but the full length of the street – aaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
1. it will ill have to share the lane with traffic or else the street will have to be reduced to one traffic lane, either way it will be forced to move at a snales pace …
2. We’ll have some bloody clunky raised platform on the median, and just a stones throw from the stop at abbey.
3. Severely damage the aesthetics & coherence of the IAP; poles, lines, wires, median trees removed – the street is starting to look cluttered enough as it is. (i know they can run wires from buildings & existing supports, but while they might be able to minimise the supports, we’ll still have wires running the length of the street.)
4. Disturbance to the red line while they ‘engineer’ this ‘cross’ or whatever the hell they are planning.
5. All the while when they are actually building a tunnell from the green to o’connell steet.
6. Beautifully timed to conincide with the end of the IAP works.NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁 🙁
@Peter FitzPatrick wrote:
please ! running luas up o’connell street is just wrong, all wrong !!!!!!!!! running it as far as abbey is bad enough, but the full length of the street – aaaaaaggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Well then please PLEASE send an email or write to the rpa about the current route selection for the metro and for the luas link up.
Whatever you think about tara , the one thing to learn is that once a course of action is decided , those with power will shit all over anyone who disagrees.
I would suggest that running the lulu up o’connell street to abbey street and then turning left or right (to jervis /abbey stops ) might be a really good thing for o’connell street if it meant that the rest of the street was pedestrianised on that side of the road.
BUT remember if you don’t write to somebody no one will listen. the old nappy campaign over the grocers orders shows that the powers that be do listen. sometimes
A Boyle can you give one example of the RPA listening?
30m trams on the red line
numerous missed completion dates
integrated ticketing
Red Cow roundabout
Blackthorn DriveI agree with Peter on this putting Luas onto O’Connell St would be a big mistake with the longer the route on O’Connell St the worse.
Ah yes trams running down O’Connell St. just like the olde days to be sure!
I’m sure they’ll read the card I sent them and say “hmm yes, maybe the Metro shouldn’t stop at the Great Southern Hotel”@Thomond Park wrote:
A Boyle can you give one example of the RPA listening?
No i can’t , but again if you don’t give your opinion you can’t complain if noone listens. Even though it’s is probably pointless i implore you and everyone reading this to email the rpa and give your opinion , whatever it may be ! info@rpa.ie
http://www.rpa.ie/404/404.asp?404;http://www.rpa.ie/metro/ndp_ppp/content.asp
The link is http://www.rpa.ie/metro/ndp_ppp/content.asp?id=78
Which becomes
http://www.rpa.ie/404/404.asp?404;ht…pp/content.asp
Once again the incompetence is shocking
@Thomond Park wrote:
[url]http://www.rpa.ie/404/404.asp?404]
I am a bit confused, what exactly is your point ?
The RPA present themselves as being in consultation yet all of the links for submission are broken.
The point is that the RPA have redefined incompetance and continue to redefine it year on year; despite repeated mistakes not one RPA member has ever been censured despite the €100’s of millions they have squandered.
Thomond Park wrote:The RPA present themselves as being in consultation yet all of the links for submission are broken.The point is that the RPA have redefined incompetance and continue to redefine it year on year]
The links are not broken , you just don’t understand how to copy the links properly ! If you had read the plaform11 link you would have read “http://www.rpa.ie/?id=78 once you understand the RPA site its easy as the original url can’t exist http://www.rpa.ie/metro/ndp_ppp/content.asp?id=78” . The links that you copied were created automatically by a server and cannot be copied.
I think you criticism of the RPA is wholly misguided. Prior to the opening all politicians roundly laughed at the RPA achieving its break even number of 20 million , given that this is the number of people carried by the dart which has 3 times the capacity. However it has done and is the only public transport mode that makes money.
To the people who complain that it cost more that it was supposed to well, perhaps a little knowledge would help. The green line between sandyford and the canal was build to be able to take full length heavy metro trains. This involved engineering bridges that could cope with 100’s of tones instead of 40. All the land has been aquired for long platfoms . The power lines can cope with all the demand of longer trains ( remember the cost of upgrading the dart ). And the cutting between dundrum and sandyford was blasted wider to fit wider metros. We will be very gratefull when this stretch is upgraded to metro in decades to comes without any disruption! (Just ask the dart users )
The chaos at the red cow never happened ( because the trams only move in front of stopped traffic )
The longer red line routing was supported by all the consultants as a good compromise between current needs and the ability for future development.
Nothwithstanding this Mr. Park proposes that given the luas is more popular than expected and is doesn’t require a subsidy it’s a failure.
I might add that electronic ticketing is operating on the luas and was doing so within a year. Is it not up to dublin bus to do their bit ( no obviously it’s the rpa)
I propose that Mr. Park has the worst irish blinkered attitude : where can i find a problem where ? As something that is delivering what it set out to do , surely it is a roaring success ? I have no doubt Mr. Park would complain just as much if it wasn’t carrying enough passengers.
Stop whinging!
Personally I believe the Luas runnng the full length of O’Connell St and on up to Broadstone will be what happens and will be great. I don’t find the wires obtrusive once suspended carefully from the buildings. Many prestigious streets in Europe have trams on them. Cars will be banned from O’Connell St in the long term, and Dublin Bus is supposedly going to completely overhaul it’s route network (to tie into enhanced rail services) which will see far fewer buses penetrate the city centre (and hence O’Connell St). Luas may just take one carriageway and the oher may be made two-way for the buses which remain. I have seen trams operate very well in pedestrianised areas and believe it would be be no different here. O’Connell St offers something no other north-south street on the northside can; it’s wide and can be made to have no crossing vehicular movements. This is a massive benefit for the trams which will get free reign from one end of the street to the other, delivering predictable journey times.
@a boyle wrote:
I propose that Mr. Park has the worst irish blinkered attitude : where can i find a problem where ? As something that is delivering what it set out to do , surely it is a roaring success ? I have no doubt Mr. Park would complain just as much if it wasn’t carrying enough passengers.
Stop whinging!
Sorry to pass your post Philip,
Aboyle I suggest that you have the attitude of an EMU whereby you bury your head in the sand as hard earned tax receipts are squandered.
As you have previously accepted the Red Cow is being put on concrete stilts and if it is functioning so well why is this being done?
Yet again the taxpayer gets fleeced
@Thomond Park wrote:
Sorry to pass your post Philip,
Aboyle I suggest that you have the attitude of an EMU whereby you bury your head in the sand as hard earned tax receipts are squandered.
As you have previously accepted the Red Cow is being put on concrete stilts and if it is functioning so well why is this being done?
Yet again the taxpayer gets fleeced
I am not sure that i said that the lulu is going on stilts ,because it is not . It is the rest of the junction that is changing. Could you pehaps identify which choices made by the rpa have squandered our money ? could you put a rough estimate on the cost of each mistake made by the rpa ( mistakes made by the transport minister don’t count )
Even allowing for ( a “huge” squander ) how is something that is more popular than expected , and making money within 12 months of operation a failure ? to have missed something somewhere
Luas phase 1 €400m overspend
Years late
RPA ticketing not-intergated with CIE system; all machines will need to be rejigged at a future date
The Luas makes a very small operating profit €?? but to say that Luas makes money is not true for Luas to make money it would need to generate an annual return of 4% p.a. or €32mIf Luas came in on budget at €400m it would need to make a lower figure of €16 p.a. to break even
The fact that Luas is popular is not a guide to financial or infrastructure delivery skills
Thomond Park wrote:Luas phase 1 €400m overspend
Years late
RPA ticketing not-intergated with CIE system]Again you are totally ignoring what i have said above. The lateness of delivery is not the rpa’s fault. (it took 3 years to build as intended )
It cost 400 million extra because the original estimate was for two trams lines. The plans were changed and 1 tram line was built and a metro line was built. Given that on a discussion for the green line extension you called for the extension to use the old harcourt line to improve segregation and allow for a metro.Are you suggesting that you would rather they had designed the green line to tram spec , so that in the future the entire length had to be bug up for heavier foundations and new bridges built.A large chunk of that extra 400 mill was wisely spent building a more powerfull power system, heavier foundations ( to support 100’s of tonne weight instead of 40) , reinforced bridges , etc .
Ok have it your way. Had the green line been built as originally costed how much would it cost to upgrade it so that it could be upgraded to a metro ? Remember it cost 180 mill to updgrade the dart’s power systems and platforms. ooooohh i don’t maybe a few hundred million ?
when i said popular it is quite clear that i meant that the tram system is used by more people than originally envisaged , that it has exceeded al it’s own “targets” and that it makes money. Where is the failure ?
Do you reject that building the green line to metro standard would easily have cost an extra 400 mill , given that the rough estimate for the northern metro is 3/4/5 billion. ? Again what specific things did the rpa do that are so bad.
Is the red cow a disaster ? is 40 thousand people per day on the red line a disaster ? Is up to 90 thousand a day on the green line a disaster.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
