Look at de state of Cork, like!
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Reading from the same site quoted above, this had me in stitches:
“The 2001 Docklands Stategy states:
1.16 Γ’β¬ΛThe CityΓ’β¬β’s successful bid for the European Cultural Capital 2005 seeks to celebrate the obvious qualities of the city and provides a parallel commitment of the Docklands PlanΓ’β¬β’
1.21 Γ’β¬ΛA clearly defined public realm strategy to instil a distinct new identity to the Docklands area. Critical to this is maintaining a Γ’β¬Λspirit of CorkΓ’β¬β’ in rebranding the area as a place with the highest quality of architectural and public space design, integrating great buildings, landscape & public artΓ’β¬β’.
3 years have elapsed since those statements were made.
3 years during which there has been much quoted about the Docklands redevelopment east of Custom House Street, but not one project has been started.
3 years during which the CityΓ’β¬β’s Γ’β¬Λcommitment of the Docklands planΓ’β¬β’ for urban regeneration apparently includes allowing part of the Bonded Warehouse to deteriorate to such a poor state of repair that it has actually fallen down.
Nowhere in the area can one see this Γ’β¬Λdistinct new identityΓ’β¬β’
Nowhere in the area can one see Γ’β¬Λthe highest quality of architectural and public space design, integrating great buildings, landscape & public artΓ’β¬β’”
So, to paraphrase the site’s message – “Let’s BAN any “high rise” development, and criticise developers where and when possible…and why the hell aren’t there any new developments in the city?”
Jaysus…
@kite wrote:
.Anyone wondering why is is difficult to convince people that they have nothing to fear regarding high rise buildings should take a look at O. Mitchell FG TDs views on high hise at http://www.corksouthwest.com News page.
That site is gold, “Show your support for our efforts to end the building
of High-Rise FLATS
(Future SLUMS?)”
and a 4 story slum is ok? He’d be better off looking for solutions than shouting populist slogans.@Mob79 wrote:
That site is gold, “Show your support for our efforts to end the building
of High-Rise FLATS
(Future SLUMS?)”
and a 4 story slum is ok? He’d be better off looking for solutions than shouting populist slogans.Im sure most of us would agree with you, had more time to go through this site. What is going on in Cork? According to the CSD site there is a motion before CCC to ban any development over 3 stories in the suburbs from councillor David McCarthy FF!!!
Tell me this is not true ? check it out on http://www.corksouthwest.com the anti high rise website…@kite wrote:
Thanks for the upcoming info on Custom House Quay..Anyone wondering why is is difficult to convince people that they have nothing to fear regarding high rise buildings should take a look at O. Mitchell FG TDs views on high hise at http://www.corksouthwest.com News page.
I’d have to agree with their comment on the Victoria Mills development though π
If 15 year old students designed these Flats for a Technical Graphics exam, would they FAIL ??
(Victoria Cross Flats built in 2004.)
@opus wrote:
I’d have to agree with their comment on the Victoria Mills development though π
If 15 year old students designed these Flats for a Technical Graphics exam, would they FAIL ??
(Victoria Cross Flats built in 2004.)
Agreed, but to try and ban any development over 3 stories in the suburbs surely cannot suceed??
The Cork South West web site is a credit to all involved,what I do not understand is the issue of the loss of 100 hundred jobs in the area,I know some time back there was talk of some form of residential development on this site,does any one know the current position?
@rodger wrote:
The Cork South West web site is a credit to all involved,what I do not understand is the issue of the loss of 100 hundred jobs in the area,I know some time back there was talk of some form of residential development on this site,does any one know the current position?
Not sure where the 100 jobs mentioned are, i assume they are in the Farm Centre Dennehys Cross, but surely you cannot agree to ban development over 3 floors???? :confused:
@kite wrote:
Im sure most of us would agree with you, had more time to go through this site. What is going on in Cork? According to the CSD site there is a motion before CCC to ban any development over 3 stories in the suburbs from councillor David McCarthy FF!!!
Tell me this is not true ? check it out on http://www.corksouthwest.com the anti high rise website…Are these people stupid?!!I mean this is ignorance, pure ignorance. The extract from the website further up just proves it – do they expect the whole docklands to be transformed with the wave of a magic wand or wot??Obviously never heard of the phrase ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’, and they obviously havent been along Lapp’s Quay lately. haha who are they kidding. ban high rise my arse. Maybe if they try reasoning in a realistic and professional manner, people might try listening, but to be honest i can’t take anybody who considers 3 stories + as highrise seriously, They should really reconsider their campaign, and focus it away from such propaganda and scare tactics. I mean the picture of ‘Jurys’ beats all. I do appreciate their concerns and empatize with them to a certain extent but this is fooling no-one! I hope :o.I do have to agree tho, as im sure most people do, about Victoria Mills. Im pretty sure it would be viewed pretty dimly by any technical graphics teacher alright. I call it duploland myself, u know those big lego blocks?! Now that’s an idea, might set about building a replica, could post the picture up too….
Some of the opinions on that website are just riding the populist fear-factor all the way to election. It’s a pity – but these tactics simply compound the uninformed or short-sighted minds of some.
My disdain for Victoria Mills is well documented but I don’t believe this should be used as a sole cause and justification for anyone to condemn high-rise. I can’t think of one city that hasn’t endured similar architectural disappointments. Lessons should be learned. It stands to be said that the genuine high-rise projects presented to Cork of late, have been generally very positive (I cite Eglinton Street and Water Street in this circumstance) and that should also be recognised. Dave McCarthy’s proposal is simply a tip to his constituents – its popular and we should remember, Dave is ‘the people’s man’ according to the June 11th 2004 run-up. A move such as a ban on highrise is not in the interests of sustainable and logical urban development – is the alternative no countryside lined with linear blocks of boring house after house? Not everyone has the budget to afford a Gaudi-esque mansion. In places like Bishopstown, 3-storeys is cited as highrise (ridiculously!) – this logic is fecious. Were it to be implemented into policy – it would seem extended logic to demolish the hundreds of 3-storey homes in the area, Cork University Hospital (except the A&E and morturary), plans for Wilton S.C., some of CIT and countless other elements. As much as I criticise and disagree with our city’s planners, I don’t believe they are ill-cognitive to adhere to such ideas – they have a great deal more information that many of those that call for such policy.
The End.
(P.S. The supposed rendition of Jurys is laughable to those in the know – but it sends a very wrong and unfair message to those who base judgement on such graphics. In this sense, such propaganda is no laughing matter.)
that website is a laugh! for all the wrong reasons.
hey wats tommy barker on about with exclusive pics??? they were up on this website ages ago – but then again not everyone has archiseek i suppose. im feeling all warm and priveleged all of a sudden! lawdeedaw! π
also yay cornmarket st – we’ve been waiting a long time and finally here we go! whoopee!
lexington wrote:*UPDATES*π Work is beginning, as previously reported it would be, a few weeks back, on Rockfell Investments (Michael O’Donoghue) 58m euro Cornmarket Street development. The project designed by Niall Coffey of Frank Ennis & Associates will house 9 retail units over 170,000sq ft, 65 apartments and 66 basement car-parking spaces. The plan will revitalise this area of the city and heed the way for CCC’s 5m euro redevelopment of the long-neglected street. This development is an important steeping stone in the extension of Cork’s Core Retail Area – wingining north from Daunt Square/Patrick’s Street. Primary construction is set to begin after a number of site assessments (as part of the grant conditions) – I am informed that this is not expected to take a considerable length of time. Demolition work is well advanced with large majorities of the site to the rear of the Musgrave Building now removed and scaffolding now being erected on the facades of adjoining buildings scheduled for demolition as part of the development. The site had once been earmarked by Michael O’Donoghue for a 9-storey, 400-bedroom hotel – however this was refused on appeal, despite a CCC grant. Construction is set to take 18 months. The retail mall has received extensive interest with Habitat set to occupy a prime unit. More info and new images soon.
Was walking passed Cornmarket street tonight and saw the scaffolding, delighted to see this project get a move on. Highly anticipated and from what I hear it’ll be a great city centre addition.Also just regarding the CAHRA/CSD crowd and their website – I suspect Frinilla are gonna get a tough time from these beauties when they lodge their plans for Dennehys cross.
We need some high rise buildings in cork, probaby in a normal piramid style, tallest in the city center and graduateing towards the subverbs. But If we ever hope to see the docklands a reality in the next century maybe the planning athourites should curb very tall buildings in the rest of the city, After all is it not the CCC plan to rejuvinate the city centre and docklands, I think they might try sticking to there ideas :rolleyes: .
Would It be wrong of me to say that the only reason why we have not seen much development in the docklands is because the land has rocketed in value since it was earmarked far development, and maybe the only reason the suburbs are getting a lot of atention is because the land is cheaper and easyier to develop.
I wish we could keep the city centre as quality development zone where new buildings are in keeping with the ones that suround them by
1. style
or 2. materials, etc similar to concepts in other city’s, bath, edinburgh, etc I think the crawford art gallery exstention is a geat exsample of a mondern structure working in harmony with its suroundings, Where as that thing that they are sticking on to our city hall is an insult to my pride as a cork person and I can not say this any stronger then I would would like to lamp the people who did this abomination π‘ .Does anyboby know of any other buildings in Cork City, Where mondern design works well in complementing the old.
A group of investors are apparently looking to build Cork’s first Crematorium on Rocky Island in Cork Harbour. This is the island located between Haulbowline and the mainland at Ringaskiddy. It’s also immediately adjacent to Cork’s envisaged new Toxic waste Incinerator. It will be interesting to see CHASE’s reaction to this.
What with all the talk of a new bus/train terminal for Cork, here’s an image from CCC’s Cork Dockland’s Development Report which shows one view of such a development. Just something to ponder on!
π Declan O’Mahony’s BrideView Developments are to lodge an application soon with CorkCoCo for the development of 429 residential units at a 26-acre site in Castleredmond, Midelton which they purchased last year for 19m euros. The site includes the historic Lakeview House. BrideView’s plans envisage an arrangement of 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 bedroom houses and apartments – consistent of 101 dwelling-houses and 328 apartments in a building between 1 and 5-storeys in height. As part of the development, a 3-storey 24-bed nursing home will be constructed, 2 tennis courts, a football pitch and outdoor games facility. Design is by O’Mahony Pike. Hmmm.
π John Keating is set to apply to CCC to develop a residential development at the former Keating Bakery along the Tramore Road. The development will consist of 40 2-bedroom apartments over a 60-space basement car-park along with 4 individual blocks home to 16 2-bedroom ‘garden apartments’, 16 3-bedroom duplexes and associated landscaping.
The Changing Face of Cork’s Quaysides
With the completion of No.6 Lapps Quay imminent, Cork’s quaysides are making a gradual, attractive change for the better. Prospective projects by OFC at Eglinton Street and Albert Quay, as well as Howard Holdings on Albert Quay (the WebWorks – under construction) will help complement the new structures pictured below across the river on Lapps Quay. DAT Partnerships plan for Clontarf Street should help provide a nice little addition to this emerging business district, planning pending. Also speculative projects by OCP at Custom House Quay and a possible development on the sprawling Careys Tool Hire premises will help ensure that this area of the city is not only among the newest, but also, the most attractive.
Mahon PointI received some info today regarding Mahon Point S.C. from a individual following an e-mailled enquiry. Anytime I’ve visit Mahon Point S.C. recently, it’s never seemed as busy as one would expect – I acounted this to some of my visiting times (such as Monday noon), however, after sussing out details it would seem the feelings of tenant retaillers are decidely mixed.
Omniplex – the Ward Anderson 13-screen multiplex – have reported positive trading results and seem most satisfied with their level of business. Similarly, Gasoline Jeanswear, Jack & Jones, Easons, Bershka and most of the food outlets have all reported positive results. According to one source, Debenhams (the anchor department store) have exceeded the turnover projections for the first 4-months of trading by an apparent, but questionable, 3m euros. Tesco, the supermarket anchor, claim business has steadied after stormy start. However, many other retaillers claim that the centre has not reached their expectations in trading – Lacoste (who, one source claims are actively seeking a city centre location(?)), Best Menswear, Ecco, Barratts and Adams all reporting so-so levels of trade.
Funnily enough, despite retailler claims to the contrary, pedestrian movements within the city centre have grown 9.8% on the same time last year with many businesses reporting healthy and/or above average trading levels. Even stranger, suburban shopping centres such as Douglas Court, Wilton S.C. and Blackpool S.C. have reported no major declinations in business since the opening of Mahon Point (with the exception of minor dips in the centre’s first few weeks of operations).
It would seem that MP’s apparent woes are based on a number of issues including:
a.) the traffic congestion consequent of the MP and Jacob’s Island developments would seem to have been turning persons away from venturing to the centre.
b.) the lack of an adequate public transport service to the centre.
c.) the mix of retaillers is very much geared toward female tastes – which has turned-off many higher-spending males. With exception of suit stores like Best and Suits You, the established male fashion retaillers have been trading well.
MP, after an initial burst of curiousity by the public, would now seem to be trying to find its ‘niche’. Whereas Douglas, Wilton and Blackpool shopping centres are established community convenient centres (albeit higher-order ones), MP surroundings don’t immediately compliment the development given the tenant mix. However, it is expected that over the coming months, MP will settle into its nest and trade should even out – especially with the many impending residential and office developments in the area (such as Jacob’s Island, Dunkettle and the Coleman Brothers development nearby) coming on stream – visitation levels should increase to meet projected 140,000 movements per week (currently the figure is believed to be in and around 90,000).
It would seem, for all the huff and puff, the city centre has come out trumps again – with more people than ever still opting for a day along Patrick’s Street than a trek to Mahon. It is my own belief that the Academy Street retail development will more likely provide a greater success story than that of MP. Retail is booming in Cork, but it’s crown jewels are still at its centre. The large retail developments gearing up at Cornmarket Street, Grand Parade and Grand Parade Plaza can keep licking their lips.
@lexington wrote:
π BrideView Developments are to lodge an application soon with CorkCoCo for the development of 429 residential units at a 26-acre site in Castleredmond, Midelton which they purchased last year for 19m euros. The site includes the historic Lakeview House. BrideView’s plans envisage an arrangement of 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 bedroom houses and apartments – consistent of 101 dwelling-houses and 328 apartments in a building between 1 and 5-storeys in height. As part of the development, a 3-storey 24-bed nursing home will be constructed, 2 tennis courts, a football pitch and outdoor games facility. Hmmm. π
Lexington, from your top sort of happy face and your bottom unhappy face, it is hard to make out what your thoughts are on this development. Is it that you favour the top and dislike the bottom part of it?
Edited:
Your editing of your original post further confuses the question!@phil wrote:
Lexington, from your top sort of happy face and your bottom unhappy face, it is hard to make out what your thoughts are on this development. Is it that you favour the top and dislike the bottom part of it?
Edited:
Your editing of your original post further confuses the question!π Sorry phil – thought I’d solve the problem by fixing the smile-face but instead it would seem I just made it worse.
I suppose my feelings regarding the BrideView development are not feelings of overall favour. I have a ‘thing’ against developing estate lands for more boring old housing patterns. In this case Lakeview House/Estate, and the same too goes for Dunkettle House and Tellengana Lodge. I think we should preserve these fine lands and manors for recreational or single-occupany use (the way they were intended) rather than redevelop them into another housing estate. I suppose they’re just so darn attractive to build on from a development perspective – but its just a personal preference. There’s plenty of other vacant land for that sort of development but only a finite few estates such as the aforementioned still in their original state.
I agree,
Given the investment being made in extending a high-quality rail connection to Midleton a density of less than 20 per acre is not sustainable. The key to sustainable development is to develop medium density schemes in the right places and preserve amenity lands elsewhere, if its resi land its too low density and if its amenity it should be preserved for neighbouring higher density schemes. π
@lexington wrote:
π Sorry phil – thought I’d solve the problem by fixing the smile-face but instead it would seem I just made it worse.
I suppose my feelings regarding the BrideView development are not feelings of overall favour. I have a ‘thing’ against developing estate lands for more boring old housing patterns. In this case Lakeview House/Estate, and the same too goes for Dunkettle House and Tellengana Lodge. I think we should preserve these fine lands and manors for recreational or single-occupany use (the way they were intended) rather than redevelop them into another housing estate. I suppose they’re just so darn attractive to build on from a development perspective – but its just a personal preference. There’s plenty of other vacant land for that sort of development but only a finite few estates such as the aforementioned still in their original state.
No problem. π I was just confused by it. I agree also with your latter point. It is a pity to see these lands being redeveloped into more monotonous housing estates (looks like there is one in the area adjacent to that site in the photo). You are also right in saying they are just to attractive to build upon from a develpmental perspective. Interesting to see some of it will be apartments though.
Lex, Regarding your MP comments… like Liffey Valley it would not exist if it were not for the tax payer funded infrastrucuture put in place before. It is unrealistic to imagine anyone other than car owner making their way to MP/Liffey Valley. In terms of activity there – do they not chime with similar comments made about Dundrum recently? Are prospective retailers getting overhyped reports on the state of suburban retailing in this country?
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