Look at de state of Cork, like!
- This topic has 1,897 replies, 111 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 12 months ago by
.
- Posts
It would seem Minister Cullen has come through earlier than I anticipated with plans I outlined in post #1568 (p63) to redevelop Kent Station. You may also recall I outlined some of the plans in scheme by Manor Park Homes for Horgan’s Quay, as the selected developer. Well I can now tell you that MPH are coming to a settlement on their design plans for the quays redevelopment – which will have its final tweaking resultant of a land study recently concluded by CIE. MPH will hope to lodge a part application for their scheme within the coming months. The plan will include a variety of commercial and residential uses and will be worked to compliment the project at Kent.
The Kent redevelopment is valued at 20m euros and was cleared by the board of CIE with a planning application to follow within the next 2 weeks thereafter. The Board will also be reviewing the MPH scheme in full.
As I indicated in the aforementioned post – the MPH/CIE decision has come on the back of the announcement that the 90m euro allocated for the Midelton/Cork rail line has been alloted.
For more details see (some you may note are currently being adjusted – I will update you on these when I get further info) -> https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=2134&page=63&pp=25
snoopdog wrote:While I am in no means appeased on this issue I will, ahhh, soften my words. I will admit that my main concern was for the future residents, for which I will take your word lexington, will not be a problem. I cannot debate the design of etc etc….One thought comes to mind, There is no progress without struggle.
The Echo (7/6/05) has the Kent Station upgrade on the frontpage, along with the news that the bus station is to move to Horgans Quay.
Nice to see that Cullen is announcing the reopening of the Midleton line for the 3rd(?) time.
@Aidan wrote:
The Echo (7/6/05) has the Kent Station upgrade on the frontpage, along with the news that the bus station is to move to Horgans Quay.
Nice to see that Cullen is announcing the reopening of the Midleton line for the 3rd(?) time.
Let’s just hope it is a little more than words this time.
BTW, any movement on the School of Music… surely the cost is rising all the time?
Well, apparently (I haven’t seen this myself) contractors are well advanced in clearing the alignment as far as Midleton of brush etc. The funding was granted at the end of May 2004, with the actual decision taken a long time previous to that.
http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=5563&lang=ENG&loc=1801
[font=Arial:vmhr47e0]Does this developent mean that Cork will have an additional bus station or will the present one simply fall in to a derelict site???[/font:vmhr47e0] :confused:
@A-ha wrote:
[font=Arial:3vt84z77]Does this developent mean that Cork will have an additional bus station or will the present one simply fall in to a derelict site???[/font:3vt84z77] :confused:
Derelict? At its current location? Not bloody likely!! 😉 With the rejuvenated Clontarf St, and new developments on Parnell Place (new hotel) and across the river (proposed Revenue building), and a stream of foot traffic going right by from the new bus/train stations the existing Bus Station would be as prime a location as you could wish for!
who_me wrote:Derelict? At its current location? Not bloody likely!! ]The existing bus station will be retained and used as a hub station to compliment the new one on Horgan’s Quay. The goal is to have a grand interlinking system – involving the Midelton/Cobh and Blarney lines w/ the city’s bus routes. The current bus station will ultimately become a more central service centre given the eastern shift of the Core Commercial Area – as is evident by the on-going and prospective developments in the locale.
The redevelopment of Horgan’s Quay will be a vital instrument in the CCA shift within this parameter of the docklands – MPH, as primary designated developer, will have a big say in how this area of the docklands shapes up. Strong design standards have been pushed for by the likes of CCC within the 3-party talks. The pressure is on MPH to deliver (their current track record is so-so [take Pembroke Wood in Passage West for example – design ranges from the bland to the oh-so-nearly-there], Horgan’s Quay will require a completely new angle). Inevitably, development land in the gap/link between Horgan’s Quay and say, Paul Kenny’s RC development will be demand paramount. This comes at a time when John McCarthy Motorpoint and O’Hea’s Opel Dealership on Patrick’s Quay for example are considering moves to new purpose built premises at Mahon Point and Little Island. This should free up vital and potentially lucrative development land. Design standards have been set high by the Kenny development and anything less will likely suffer strong critique.
The figure on Horgan’s Quay redevelopment is estimated at 500m euro.
More details on Horgan’s Quay available at post #1568.
Three Questions,
Firstly how many acres will MPH be acquiring and what price will they be paying in hard currency?
Secondly what was the last fund valuation per acre put on Water St?
Thirdly how can Cork be receiving a World Class transport system when the Southside or majority of the population of the metropolis be left yet again without a train system?
John P Durack
Cullen announces major redevelopment of Horgan’s Quay Cork
7 June 2005
Minister welcomes upgrade of Cork’s Kent StationThe Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen T.D. today (7 June 2005) welcomed the decision of the Board of CIE to give the go-ahead to the commercial development of the Company’s 17-acre site at Horgan’s Quay in Cork City. The development is estimated to be valued in the region of €500m.
Minister Cullen announced the decision on a visit to Cork where he was joined by the Chairman of CIE, Dr John Lynch. The Minister also announced an upgrade of Kent Station in Cork City and that as part of the Horgan’s Quay development, a new Bus Eireann bus station will also be built, thereby providing an integrated travel centre for public transport users in the City.
The Horgan’s Quay development will be a 17-acre mixed use development, covering residential and commercial and represents a significant step in the on-going regeneration of the city centre in Cork. CIE Board has selected Manor Park Homes at the developer for the project. An application for planning will now proceed.
He said: “This is a hugely significant announcement for Cork City. The CIE board has demonstrated vision and ambition with the development of its lands on Horgan’s Quay. A regeneration of this scale will transform the area and bring to life a prime location in the City. It will be a significant contribution to the on-going transformation of Cork City into a modern 21st century European city.”
In tandem with the development of Horgan’s Quay, the Minister welcomed the decision by CIE to significantly upgrade Kent Station. Irish Rail plans the reorientation of Kent Station away from the current entrance on Glanmire Road to a new entrance facing the new development on Horgan’s Quay and the city centre. The Minister said the upgrade will deliver improved access to the city centre and a strong integration of rail and bus services.
A facility of 3,000 square metres is planned at Kent Station, comparable in size to the main Heuston Station in Dublin. The customer facilities will include:
New ticket sales office;
New left luggage area;
New toilet facilities;
Improved passenger concourse;
Mobility impaired facilities
Improved retail facilities
Minister Cullen said that Government rail investment in Cork will result in real benefits to the travelling public. “Quality, comfort and frequency of service will be improved. For every cent invested by Government, existing customers will benefit and passenger numbers can grow,” he said.
In addition to Horgan’s Quay and Kent Station, other rail investment in Cork includes the re-opening of the Cork to Midleton line costing approximately €100m. The re-opening of the Cork to Midleton line will include new stations at Midleton, Carrigtwohill, Dunkettle, Kilbarry and Blarney. Irish Rail intends to apply for a Rail Works Order, the first step in the project, later this year.
In addition, 67 new intercity carriages are already on order at a cost of nearly €120million. These new carriages will operate services between Kent Station and Heuston and will enable Iarnrod Eireann to give customers an hourly service in each direction with quality, comfort and journey time improvements.
The delivery of the first of these carriages to Irish Rail from the manufacturer is expected in 2 months time. Following commissioning, all the carriages are expected to be in service by mid-2006. On the Dublin-Cork service, Minister Cullen said: “The arrival of 67 new rail carriages on the Dublin to Cork service will greatly enhance what is one of the busiest routes on the rail network”, he concluded.
ENDS
JPD – words like ‘world class’ are mere political spin. The fact is, this will not provide Cork with a world-class public transport system – but it is a major step and it may provide a foundation of sorts for future development of a transport system that works. Indeed the south side of the city is under-serviced – but East Cork is a rapidly growing commuter area of the city and at leat it is being given something of a support for prospective growth.The MPH/CIE arrangement is based on a mixed-equity premise – MPH won’t necessarily be handing over ‘hard cash’ as you put it in the traditional sense – they paid approximately IRP20m for the privilege of the site back in 1998 but the arrangement for development is on a shared equity basis with MPH the majority holders obviously. They will be availing of a great proportion of the 17-acres provided at Horgan’s Quay – a final figure is not available yet but I’m told that they have 12.5 acres for sure allocated for their own development, with 3 acres in negotiation with a 3rd party – however their design plans include these 3 acres.
[font=Arial:1bzh6a1l]I totally agree JPD. London, Paris and New York have world class transportation systems….. not Cork. To know what a world class transport system is, just look at the Underground, DLR, Tramlink, Thameslink and all of the other high speed ELECTRIFIED trains that are in London. It's the only city in the world that is a role model for other cities wanting good transportation links. Cork doesn't even come close to having a “World Class Transportation System”. We had a better transportation system in the 1900's, when we had electrified trams going all over the city. I would so love to tell the Minister for Transport that diesel engines are NOT the way to the future!!! World Class….. what a joke! But never the less, I am utterly delighted that the Cork-Midleton line is reopening and some good investment money is coming in Kent stations way. Baby steps, but it has to count for something.[/font:1bzh6a1l] :rolleyes:
@lexington wrote:
Cullen announces major redevelopment of Horgan’s Quay Cork
[
words like ‘world class’ are mere political spin. The fact is, this will not provide Cork with a world-class public transport system – but it is a major step and it may provide a foundation of sorts for future development of a transport system that works. Indeed the south side of the city is under-serviced – but East Cork is a rapidly growing commuter area of the city and at leat it is being given something of a support for prospective growth.Granted the well founded vision is Midleton as an urban settelement of national importance with a population in excess of 25,000 and to develop the existing Mallow rail line in a sustainable manner a la CASP. But it is important to acknowledge that this is the third time that the Midleton Rail Line has had a fanfare and that no effort has been made yet again to give to give the Majority of Cork City a proper public transport system be it rail or Luas. I have to keep thinking of Radioactiveman’s biggest thread Cork, Mahon point, etc, etc and I would have to ask what will this do for Cork, Mahon point and at least half the Ect?
Who gets paid to write Cullen’s press releases?
Where does this leave Roger Flack’s lecture position of Cork becoming an important European City, these type of decisions make it easy to object to four storey buildings on the basis of no planned transport infrastructure.
JohnPD
I always thought that a trolleybus connecting the city centre with MP was “part of the plan” obviously I must have been mistaken. If it was up to me I would definetly not go down the Luas type of way. Although trams are extremely popular all over Europe, they take up time and valuable space. A better solution would probably be a Monorail. They are fast and more efficiant than a tram and definetly the way into the 21st century. They are also alot cheaper to install and run and also doesn’t take up road space, allowing buses and cars to roam freely. Monorails exist all over the world, from theme parks to large urban areas and even small country towns. Check out this website http://www.monorails.org it gives a great insight into how they operate etc. Maybe then Cork might have a world class transportation system. This is highly unlikely as our government wont have the plans, the money or the time to give Cork a transportation system that challenges cities around the world. 🙁
@A-ha wrote:
A better solution would probably be a Monorail. They are fast and more efficiant than a tram and definetly the way into the 21st century. They are also alot cheaper to install and run and also doesn’t take up road space, allowing buses and cars to roam freely. Monorails exist all over the world, from theme parks to large urban areas and even small country towns. Check out this website http://www.monorails.org it gives a great insight into how they operate etc.
😀 If The Simpson’s have thought us anything it’s that Monorails are a decidedly dodgy notion. I think babysteps are the best course of action- lets get funtioning bus corridors before we try to re-invent the wheel.
I think, like a lot of us, I was taken aback by CIE’s announcment today. Only a few months ago they were telling us they had no interest in Horgan’s key until 2007 at least.
I’m very sceptical at the moment. I think I’ll reserve judgement on this one until I see the plans on paper and a few cranes over Kent Station.
Maybe I’d be more optimistic if the press release hadn’t also contained mention of the serially-launched midleton rail link re-opening. This thing has been launched more times than a toy boat!
And this big announcemnet comes the day before the whole government turns up on our doorstep to give us all one big collective hug. I think they really do love us after all!!! I’ve got a warm fuzzy feeling inside 😎
spare me….
but I live in hope!Here’s an image of the site (outlined in red) and where I think the bulk of the MPH development COULD take place (outlined in green). Presumably with some sort of public plaza area linking train and bus stations to the overall development in the centre there. Again, pure speculation on my part. When can we expect any definate plans?
Radioactiveman has put his finger on it….when?!
No mention in any press release or blurb about timeframes or projected completion dates…
Any of ye familiar with MagLevs? or magnetically levitated trains, they operate on the principle of varying magnetic fields in order to move, and actually do levitate or float above the track. i know it sounds a bit “sci-fi” or futuristic, but they’ve already built one between Shanghai airport and city. The advantage is that they contain no working parts – no onboard engine, therefore very lttle maintenance, and are highly sustainable. Diesel trains, obviously, and indirectly trams, aren’t quite so environmentaly conscious, but when it comes down to it that’s the least of the issues when it comes down to it. 😮 Ah well maybe this Shangahai twinning will turn a few heads
Just some brief details on the MPH development – I was given a very sparse e-mail today noting that an application was ideally scheduled anytime within the next month to month and a half (?). Residential unit numbers will not accommodate the media speculated 5000 mark, but will equal a more conservative figure which will be spread out over a number of phases (under 2000 max.) – with completion of all these phases scheduled (planning pending) for late 2010. Heights discussed with CCC call for a general level between 6 and 8-storeys, with elements rising higher in specific areas (deemed worthy for such). The e-mail also indicated that we can expect many an objection!!! I’ll let you know more when I can.
I’ve been pretty busy lately – a number of things are rolling at the moment and I hope to fill you in on them soon. One may, MAY be touched on tomorrow but I’ve no idea whether its for sure yet.
Objections??? Surely not 😀
Check out the pictures on this site of the Mercat Santa Caterina in Barcelona, Spain. Down on the right of of this screen somewhere.
It reminds me of the English Market in Cork. I know, I know, the roof isn’t as fancy but inside looks the same and you never know, with a new roof, the English Market could look even more tasty than it does today!:confused: Ann O’Donovan has withdrawn her application to develop 25 apartments and a gym over basement car-park at a site along Cotter Street, between Copley Hall and South Terrace. The vacant lot was set to be developed into a new residential development, however, on-going talks with CCC have seen Ms. O’Donovan withdraw her proposal for revisions rather than face refusal.
😮 Meanwhile, Anna O’Connor (based at Sandymount in Dublin) awaits a decision on her York Hill/Wellington Road apartment development – her 3rd attempt – this Thursday. MV Cullinan are the architects – earlier this year, Ms. O’Connor’s plans for a 6-storey residential development with offices and open courtyard above a basement car-park for the same site were refused.
🙂 Paul Kenny’s plans for the redevelop of his St. Patrick’s Quay car-park and surrounding buildings are due a decision on the 14th of June 2005 – the landmark building of 127,000sq ft of offices dedicated for the Revenue Commissioners relocation, designed by Wilson Architecture – is looking generally positive despite 3 objections for An Taisce, the McLaughlin Family and Bell Scott Engineering (both of whom have businesses located on Ship Street adjoining the development).
🙂 John Cleary Developments has been greenlit on its second-attempt to develop a new industrial park at its lands in Kilnap, adjacent to its existing North Point Business Park development. The original development for a series of individual industrial units was refused earlier this year – the revised application sought to incorpoarate 17 units within a single 3-storey structure. The development stands to create up to 300 new jobs in the area. (See prev. associated post for further details).@lexington wrote:
Just some brief details on the MPH development – I was given a very sparse e-mail today noting that an application was ideally scheduled anytime within the next month to month and a half (?). Residential unit numbers will not accommodate the media speculated 5000 mark, but will equal a more conservative figure which will be spread out over a number of phases (under 2000 max.) – with completion of all these phases scheduled (planning pending) for late 2010. Heights discussed with CCC call for a general level between 6 and 8-storeys, with elements rising higher in specific areas (deemed worthy for such). The e-mail also indicated that we can expect many an objection!!! I’ll let you know more when I can.
Great to finally have some movement on the Horgan Quay site, any info on the Port of Cork/Bonded warehouse site opp Jurys Inn? Surely there must be some plans in the pipeline for such a prime site?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
