Look at de state of Cork, like!
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- April 30, 2005 at 8:14 pm #733622
lexington
ParticipantThe proposed redevelopment of the Capitol Cineplex by John Costello and Mount Kennett Investments is being met with a mix of frowns and haws at Navigation House.
My personal feeling on the project is that it is sub-par externally. The internal ‘tear-drop’ shaped aspects of the project seem to be pretty good, however, for such a landmark site, I do not believe the project is worthy enough in its current form. Its massing and external finishings aren’t up to scratch. The design is by Sabine Wittman of Dungarvan-based The e-Project. I believe the stepping-back of the upper levels in this case detracts from the potential of the development and does not aid its appearance in this instance (although CCC have an affinity for this sort of layout it would seem), furthermore, there are many unpleasant touches like the roof-top railings, apartment and elevator plants that remind one of the ugly St. Patrick’s Quay elevation of the Metropole Hotel.

Looking at the project south-to-north along Grand Parade
North-to-South from Daunt Square, provides a better picture of the project’s massing.(Also, at long last, I’ve discovered a software that enables me to change and compress original image formats – however, the quality of this is somewhat depleted in the process. Excuse any impurities – the 2nd image required a scan, then compression.)
Howard Holdings’ Lavitts Quay/Comfort Inn DevelopmentAnd while the software is working out (until I can upgrade it), I had promised an image of Howard Holdings’ Lavitts Quay Comfort Inn development of 125-bedrooms over 7-storeys and basement car-parking w/ retail and some office space. The development was designed by Reddy O’Riordan Staehli Architects, part-and-parcel, of the land-swap deal undertaken between Howard Holdings and Thomas Crosbie Holdings allowing the Irish Examiner/Evening Echo avail of top-floor office space (approx. 27,000sq ft +) at City Quarter (see previous posts). The project was met by a degree of criticism from planner Michael Lynch who requested Significant Further Information on the project. RORSA are currently touching up alterations to the design of the project in order to succeed in their planning efforts. I’ll bring details of those changes later on. You can see now perhaps, the problems had with the design. The development will be located between Cork Opera House and 21 Lavitts Quay (seen under construction to the right – I’ll bring a more up-to-date image of that project next week).

Again, this image had to be compressed, printed, re-scanned and further compressed with new software – hence quality. Apologises.
๐ ‘Flemingos’, Mr Barker???!!! That is probably the worst pun I’ve ever heard, and hence, one of the best! Well done, sir, I’m impressed. ๐ Too much time on your hands.May 2, 2005 at 8:27 pm #733623ewankennedy
ParticipantYeah I’d seen pics of the Capital development before alright and its no pretty beast. The coloration is so dull & lifeless. If this one gets passed I’ll hang me shoes up.
Glad the Howard holdings thing has been givn the chance to redeem itself. really boring design – is that teak i spy??? No RORSA, no!
May 3, 2005 at 12:22 am #733624A-ha
Participant:confused: Does anyone have any pics. of what the Radisson Hotel will look like when completed in Little Island? Also, the Capitol Cineplex building will look like a prison if the plans go ahead! I mean, what the f**k were they thinking?!?!?!
May 3, 2005 at 8:41 am #733625lexington
ParticipantAs promised, here’s a more up-to-date image of 21 Lavitts Quay – nearing completion, although this image is a few weeks old. It has been significantly added to since. The development will provide 30,000sq ft of office accommodation (5,000sq ft = OCP’s new HQ, 15,000sq ft has been reserved by a semi-state body), 44 luxury apartments (selling fast), a private multistorey, ground-floor retail and restaurant. Design is by Patrick A. Cashman & Associates. Building Contractors were Bowen Construction.

Notice how the original OCP building facade has been neatly incorporated into the new structure. Also, one can see the Howard Holdings Lavitts Quay development site (former of TCH) to the left, see prev. post.
ewankennedy , yes that is teak, give that a month and it’ll look awful. Also the roof and quayside/northern elevation, especially to the east is utterly bland and distasteful. Changes are on-going for the Significant Further Information submit.
A-ha, an image of the new Radisson is posted earlier on in this thread. Design is by Dennehy + Dennehy, construction by Sisk. Here’s a part image -> Radisson SAS Cork
Cork: Has it’s time come? – a microscopic report I’ve been sketching, may be of interest to some of you – just outlines some trends of late, plus prospects and a number of moves made by developers, architects and construction firms alike over the past few months. Hope to have it up sometime this week.
*UPDATES*๐ By the way, did I mention that AIB have been granted their plan to redevelop their premises along the Watercourse Road in Blackpool? Well, they have. The Building Consultancy Group are responsible for the new design which will see the existing single-storey premises demolished and rebuilt over 2-storeys w/ new ATM, staff parking (17 spaces) and all associated ancillary works. Reading the planner’s report, 2 words spring to mind regarding the design, “ringing” and “endorsement”.
May 3, 2005 at 8:45 pm #733626lexington
ParticipantAnxious to get a look inside the new 170,000sq ft Ballincollig Town Centre Shopping Centre before it opens in October 2005? Well, here you go! Click the thumbnail below and check it out for yourself.
The S.C. is the first Phase of a possible 2, with a site to the west of the S.C. zoned for a possible future extension – depending on the need/demand etc. The centre provides a significant retail element to the 500m euro development by O’Flynn Construction. A team of different architectural firms like Wilson Architecture and Reddy O’Riordain Staehli, were employed in the design of the town centre which will incorporate a variety of residential, office and retail provisions in the fast growing suburb. The development is taking shape on the former Murphy’s Barracks as we speak – bought by OFC in 1999 from the Dept. of Defence for an est’d 39m.
Below is a thumbnail of the S.C. lay-out. Dunnes and Easons (Units 10/11 on layout map) are among the tenants, with more to be announced soon. I’ll try and get a heads-up on that when I can. Enjoy!
Just a word, unlike the so-called Dundrum ‘Town Centre’ – which is really just a large shopping centre, the OFC project in Ballincollig can rightfully be called so, as it really is the construction of a new town centre (substantial addition to existing town).
May 3, 2005 at 11:57 pm #733627rodger
ParticipantI think it would be interesting to see the exact level of development either underconstruction in planning or about to be lodged in cork city.Any one interested?
I can just see the Head Line 3bn investment for cork city,That may even make the front page of The Times…May 4, 2005 at 10:23 am #733628lexington
ParticipantWell for a start just add Mahon Point + Ballincollig Town Centre + em…say, Ladyswell together, and there’s your first billion already.
May 4, 2005 at 12:56 pm #733629Radioactiveman
ParticipantAnybody know what use (if any) Hegarty’s are going to make of their long disused site adjacent to their head office on Leitrim Street. This is a very well positioned site with views of Shandon and Cathedral and opposite the old brewery buildings at Ladys Well. What with all the work going on in the immediate vivcinity, I think it shouldn’t be long before we hear something from Hegarty’s.
Work seems to be zooming along at the Webworks site adjacent to City Hall. Does anybody have an image of what this will actually look like?
I’m delighted to see that AIB have been given the green light for their new Watercourse Road Branch- the building itself will be fine addition to the street. Frinailla propose a bank in their LadysWell development down the Street. I’m not sure how this will work out though. Incidently, both parts of that development has been appealled by local residents to An Bord Pleanala.
An application for planning has recently been submitted for 6 houses in O’Connell Place, off Watercourse Road. This is becoming an interesting trend in the area recently- old, long vacant ‘brownfield sites are being turned into new residential schemes to “beat the band”.
O’Donoughues Coal Yard, Bleasby Street, Off Shandon St, etc. Anybody with a small Workshop/ yard in the area could make a killing!
On that topic, there is a large site on Watercourse Road (on the Church side of T&A Builders Providers). Those anybody know who owns same? Seems like some prime real estate.May 4, 2005 at 2:43 pm #733630pier39
Participantthe capitol thing looks rotten! grey ugly and what were they thinking??? a prison is a good description of it yeah.
Ballincollig looks ok but is just another shopping centre isnt it really, small enough too, same size as wilton isnt it?
May 4, 2005 at 3:10 pm #733631rodger
Participant@lexington wrote:
Well for a start just add Mahon Point + Ballincollig Town Centre + em…say, Ladyswell together, and there’s your first billion already.
Yes that is a great start but Ballincollig is in the county.So what do you think should we calculate the total level of investment in Cork City?
May 4, 2005 at 7:45 pm #733632lexington
Participant*UPDATES*
๐ OFC have been granted planning by Cork County Council to develop a new 4 to 6 storey apartment building with 45 units over basement car-park along Maryborough Hill, near Douglas. 29 new detached, semi-detached and terrace houses will also be constructed at the site adjoining Rochestown Rise. Hogan Associates of Proby’s Quay handled the design of the development.
๐ And an interesting little development I’ve been watching for Rathcormac’s Main Street – a 5-unit office block, 4 retail units, 17 houses and 5 apartments, designed by Fermoy-based David Mulcahy Concepts, being developed by Dublin-based Sean O’hAinle – has been also greenlit.
:rolleyes: Also, Mallow GAA have the 207 houses plan for their lands lodged, while Bernie O’Mahony’s plans for Innishannon have been shot down – ouch!
If the Mallow GAA are successful, you can be sure, following the tasty sale cheque – the U-13s will be enjoying many a pleasant changing room for years to come. ๐
Regarding the report Cork: Has it’s time come? , I won’t be posting it (or perhaps a link to it) until I receive a reply from 3 other developers regarding the plans and interests in Cork. I want it to be pretty up-to-date – and I will not be able to reference all prospective or preplanning projects in the interest of privacy (well, maybe a few! ๐ )๐ฎ Should have some interesting news either late tonight, early tomorrow. And may (MAY – I say!) have some OCP news. ๐
@rodger wrote:Yes that is a great start but Ballincollig is in the county.So what do you think should we calculate the total level of investment in Cork City?
Well I would consider Ballincollig a suburb, as do OFC who are pitching BTC as a development in Cork’s fastest growing suburb. If we go by disputed city/county lines we may as well count out Douglas, Glanmire, parts of Bishopstown and half the northside. But within existing city boundaries –
recent, current and prospective – I would earmarked it in around a comfortable 2.3bn euros
That’s a very loose calculation of developments within the city limits + Douglas by major private developers only. It doesn’t include a number of projects like the Kingsley, Victoria Mills, Westend etc – or many suburban/city limit projects. Just think of what that would total adding all those other investments.
May 4, 2005 at 9:25 pm #733633rodger
ParticipantI think if one was to allow for the definate IAWs n Horgan Quay properties you are probably closer to 6bn but then again if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.
2 things, there seems to be a lot of activity around the Sun Beam site CO Richard Rainey, :confused: n CAN SOME ONE PLEASE TELL ME WHO BOUGHT THE TESCOS SITE IN MIDLETON!May 5, 2005 at 9:47 am #733634lexington
ParticipantIf you cast your minds back to page 48 of this thread, you may remember an image I posted highlighting some future dockland development sites – one of those included the 0.4acre Reliance Site along Andersons Quay (see below) –

(Pardon the crudeness, just a quick job I threw together heading out the door, will top it up better later.)– well, it would seem that the site is now up for sale through HOK with a guide of in and around รขโยฌ5m (notice how I used a euro sign! ๐ ). Invites are open for joint development proposals or purchase offers. One of the nautically adventurous directors was already approached in the past (exact dates unknown) with a development offer involving a 6/7 storey office development – however the offer made was below that of the current guide and I’m not quite sure of the status of the proposal at this stage. It remains likely that any future proposal for the waterfront site will be of a predominantly office based nature, though its all up in the air at this stage. Another interesting proposal on Clontarf Street is expected to be lodged by the week-end (formal announcement soon.)
Any development will face across the northern channel of the Lee to view Paul Kenny’s Revenue tailored office development across the water (assuming it gets the go-ahead and consequent RC deal). The Sullivans Quay Government buildings have already been assessed and proposals are under consideration with at least 2 of the bidders for the RC’s new premises.
Also, just while the docklands image is up, there may be announcement to be made regarding one of the docklands sites not highlighted soon. I haven’t been given a timeframe – but if I hear it first, you’ll know first.May 5, 2005 at 11:07 am #733635lisam
Participant@lexington wrote:
Also, just while the docklands image is up, there may be announcement to be made regarding one of the docklands sites not highlighted soon. I haven’t been given a timeframe – but if I hear it first, you’ll know first.
Thats a lot of good news – i’ll be kept busy
May 5, 2005 at 2:17 pm #733636lexington
Participant๐ฎ Blackpool Developments, the subsidary of Clayton Love Jnr et al’s Shipton Group, have been granted planning for the development of a childcare centre and overhead 3-bedroom apartment at 45/46 Dublin Street in Blackpool, near Blackpool S.C. It is the 2nd application for the development, designed by Kelly Barry O’Brien Whelan, with the previous submit refused. Initially, planner Fiona McSharry, also refused this new application but the decision was overturned by the Director of Planning, Jim O’Donovan.
๐ Also, nearby, as stated earlier in a previous post, Atlas Developments (a Noel O’Flynn enterprise) has losged for the development of 30,000sq ft, 3-storey, 21unit business & technology centre along the Old Mallow Road – which hopes will create up to 150 new jobs in the area.
No lisam , its not related to OCP – that’s an announcement for another day. ๐May 5, 2005 at 3:14 pm #733637Radioactiveman
Participant@lexington wrote:
Blackpool Developments have been granted planning for the development of a childcare centre and overhead 3-bedroom apartment at 45/46 Dublin Street in Blackpool, near Blackpool S.C…… Initially, planner Fiona McSharry, also refused this new application but the decision was overturned by the Director of Planning, Jim O’Donovan.
This is the second time the Director of Planning has intervened in a decision for the Blackpool area lately (Frinailla’s Ladyswell development was also passed despite CCC report reccomending refusal). Is such intervention usual? How often does it happen?
Maybe these interventions represent a concerted effort by the powers that be to give development along the Dublin Street/Watercourse Road spine a well deserved kick up the arse. :rolleyes:
Also, id be interested if someone in the know could write a few lines here about the decision making process inside Navigation House (no jokes please!!). Once an application drops on the mat, who sees it? where does the City Manager and Director of Planning fit into the process. I’m sure everyone has a vague idea of what happens but I’d appreciate if someone could let me know the full story. ๐
Also of note in the Blackpool area, John Hogan has been refused permission for retention of a 3-storey + converted attic (5 Apartment) development on Upper John Street. The site also has a detached two storey building built in what was the rear garden!
The main 3 storey building has NO internal stairs. An exterior stairs on the rear of the building is the means of access to the upper floors.
No parking is provided for the development and no reasonable open space. The CCC report has rightly labelled it an overdevelopment. This must be one of the most flagrant breaches of planning law i’ve seen in a long number of years. I presume it will be appealled to ABP.May 5, 2005 at 5:29 pm #733638Hoborg
Participant@d_d_dallas wrote:
C’mon – it’s not THAT bad. Superior to the other new apartment development nearby. Camden Wharf.
ick.
It’s not that bad outside, agreed, a bit schizophrenic but still it’s a matter of taste. Some two years ago I’ve done all working drawings for both phases, basing on extremely sketchy drawings by Mr. Leahy. The real problems are actually inside, and however frustrating it was, I was unable to correct it without changing the architecture outside, and there was no consent of the author to do it.
There are some bedrooms without windows or with windows facing the internal corridors, which provide no light or proper ventilation. To enter the house one must pass through a real maze of corridor. The first floor apartments face heavy traffic – trucks pass next to the windows at distance smaller than 3 m. Front groundfloor windows take in the smell from the open sewer running paralell to the elevation.
Overall – it might look attractive, but it will be one hell to live in.May 5, 2005 at 5:35 pm #733639lexington
Participant*UPDATES*
๐ Clayton Love’s Douglas Central Properties have lodged a 1st party appeal for their 124-bedroom, 8-storey hotel on a site between Cinema World and the East Douglas Village complex in Douglas, which was refused last month by Cork County Council. See previous posts. A little late though it would seem.
– also as previously reported, Frinailla have lodged a 1st party appeal against the conditions imposed on them by CCC re: their Ladyswell. There are also a number of 3rd party appeals by Kathleen Lynch and Co.
๐ฎ Murphy Construction Ltd have been given the go-ahead by ABP for their plans to develop 244 new homes and adjoining creche facilities at Ballinglanna in Glanmire.

๐ฎ Some reports are mixed here at the current moment regarding ‘detail’ – however, what I can tell you, is that OCP are actively working on proposals for a docklands project. I’ve no idea yet on the exact timeframe of when they expect to announce their intentions (or whether they find the project feasible enough to do so in the interm) – but I can tell you, a source with a generally good track record, has confirmed OCP are very much pursuing a landmark, waterfront project. A further source ( ๐ ) confirmed the project today again also, but with some conflicting details to the other source. Some of the ins-and-outs don’t quite yet add up – but when I work the details out I’ll come back to you. I don’t want to elaborate anymore until I get a positive on the existing details – and even then, will perhaps hold back (depending) on any further announcements until OCP decide to publicly put their cards on the table.
– Also, on the topic of OCP, the ABP inspector’s report (so far) regarding their Jurys Redevelopment seems a mixed affair. I have yet to see the ‘print’ as it were, but word says, it will likely recommend a conditioned approval (no details on that yet). This of course will be subject to a final Bord order – and that’s anyone’s guess really. A decision is due on May 17th 2005 (Thursday week). With any of these things, its really a case of, ‘I don’t believe it until I see it’, but I’m hoping the rumour is true. I thought I’d let you know what I was hearing – hopefully I’ll be able to give you a better picture closer to the due date.

Keep your eyes peeled. ๐
@Hoborg wrote:It’s not that bad outside, agreed, a bit schizophrenic but still it’s a matter of taste. Some two years ago I’ve done all working drawings for both phases, basing on extremely sketchy drawings by Mr. Leahy. The real problems are actually inside, and however frustrating it was, I was unable to correct it without changing the architecture outside, and there was no consent of the author to do it.
There are some bedrooms without windows or with windows facing the internal corridors, which provide no light or proper ventilation. To enter the house one must pass through a real maze of corridor. The first floor apartments face heavy traffic – trucks pass next to the windows at distance smaller than 3 m. Front groundfloor windows take in the smell from the open sewer running paralell to the elevation.
Overall – it might look attractive, but it will be one hell to live in.A ringing endorsement if there ever was one –

– funnily the sales have been pretty good. Neil seems happy anyway. I take it you don’t do much work for Mr. Leahy anymore then eh? ๐
May 5, 2005 at 5:48 pm #733640Hoborg
ParticipantNo, I dont. It makes me much healthier. Mentally,
May 5, 2005 at 5:51 pm #733641Hoborg
ParticipantNo, I dont. It makes me much healthier. Mentally,
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