Look at de state of Cork, like!
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Mr. Gavin has been quite outspoken in his support for both Water Street and Eglinton Street. Would be very surprised if he doesn’t get involved.
@lexington wrote:
4 acres on the button.
The case for appeal is very strong. A previous application for high-rise on the eastern front (this time at Silversprings) was lodged 2 years ago by O’Brien & O’Flynn Ltd for a 15-storey residential tower, designed by Dennehy + Dennehy, and which was pitched on top of the slope in Tivoli not far from the Moran Silversprings Hotel. Though the tower was removed by CCC condition, on appeal, ABP inspector Bernard Dee stated that Cork needed some skyline distinction on the eastern front – providing a nice urban balance with consideration to County Hall in the west. The board over-ruled the planning inspector’s recommendation of grant stating that although they agreed Cork needed some aerial distinction in this regard, the tower was located in an unsuitable area and would be better located closer to the city centre (i.e. north-east docklands). This gives Water Street a very strong position in that sense as it provides for a tower in a location noted by ABP themselves.
The loss of privacy issue is farsical considering that most Lower Glanmire Road residencies are sheltered by the warehousing to the north of the Water Street site and that the tower was relocated east (at the planner’s request!) minimising disruption, which it most certainly does. Further, the profile of the tower is compliant with CCC Development Plan regulations – slender on the north-south axis – and is thus not a valid source of refusal.
I’m a little more optimistic – but it will depend on the details of the Further Info submitted and how CCC react to that. OFC say they are close to getting this together soon now.
Should have some cheerier news later today – all going well.@Pug wrote:
lex
re the werdna refusal, never seen your words so animated, just shows how ticked off you are It’s a bizarre situation to have talks all the way along with the developers and then sort of kind of half-refuse, it seems to be pure politics. . Its like they seem to think that they have to be seen to refuse, then they pretend to make a fuss about it and eventually will grant permission after people point out how stupid their decisions are. Its about time the whole planning process was utterly revamped although with Dick Roche as minister, there isnt a hope in hell of a logical decision happening. Then you have Frinailla getting refused planning in Watercourse Rd but Joe Gavin can step in then and single handedly sort it for them.
I was in talks with a planner about a site and made all the required changes and then when i put in the application with all the changes that had been discussed with the planner to my utter astonishment it was refused. What was the point in my investing time money and energy and all I was doing was keeping the planner happy? I got the permission after logging and diarising the meetings and proving I had made the changes AT THEIR REQUEST. Idiotic.
Whats frustrating is that Cork is of a size that has SO much potential, We need a concert venue, the showgrounds needs a revamp and the fact that you STILL cant get public transport after 11.15 at night is hilarious.
Frinailla have been granted a permission on Watercourse Rd.by way of condition .The planner recommended refusal,however rather than refusing the descision Jim o Donavan recommended a grant allowing for reductions in numbers as indicated by Fiona McSharry.The Frinailla application is a completely different situation to water st,and pug lest we forget they too started out with 300 units and ended up with 147.
๐ Rathmelton Investments have received their grant for alterations in their extended development of the Kingsley Hotel. The development will see 336m2 reduc bedrm extn-nth faรยงade,reduc no.rms frm 82-79.164m2 reduc confer faclts.95m2 incr. Leis.&spa faclts.227m2 incr. kitch&dining faclts,incl. new storage faclts.202m2 reduc aparthtl blk w/assoc. offices&pkg to west of site.Addn of mezz level&o/side smoking areas at rest.,lounge&lounge bar extns.Aparthtl 4thflr apt incr. 74m2.Intl flr areas to reconfig.Htl bldg:Ents to spa&leis. areas modified.Spa&leis. area to incl tunnel link to b/ment pkng area.Kitch extn on grd flr reduced&used as storage.1stรขโฌโ3rdflr mtg rm&bedrm extns over storage area omitted,rest.,lnge&lnge bar extns reconfig&incl mezz level&extl smoking areas,confer area&related fctns reconfig,glazed cover canopy frm extg entr-new luggage storage area&confer area,2 addl lift shafts add to east wing extn.,escp stairs to both bedrm wing extns modified,minor adjustments to extl drs&wins.Aparthtl:incr.4thflr apt by 74m2,create roof tce&access to tce frm top flr,alter loc.&ht of bldg,minor adjusts to locations of extl wins&drs.
O’Flynn of Banteer are the main contractors; w/ Murray O’Laoire responsible for design.
๐ John F. Supple Ltd have erected a new tower crane over Cathedral Avenue near Shandon Street. The crane represents the initiation of primary construction on an extensive social housing scheme and special needs facility (also w/ some retail provision) funded by Cork City Council.
The IFI site sold for 20m and will be used as an industrial/warehousing facility – more details in the coming days.
Check out Cork’s newest nightclub at ->
BluBambuAlthough it is well known that I support the Water Street development – even from a non-bias perspective, I would have to agree that the report is, when compared to many other reports, a tad unfair and nit-picks. When a developer spends so much time in preplanning talks, as with Water Street, and when pointers have been taken and noted so extensively, planners thereafter should be disallowed from initiating a refusal – save for a completely altered agreement on preplanning consultations.
@Water Street Planner wrote:
…it is critical that the site is developed to a high standard in all aspects particularly as it will serve as a benchmark for other potential schemes in the Docklands…
the basic building blocks are oriented on a north-south basis as identified in the Docklands Strategy so as to enable visibility through the site from higher land to the rear
In my opinion the maximum heights for the north-south spine blocks should be 5 storeys with up to
2 storeys more set backAn academic argument can be made advocating a high building on this site so as to act as a gateway upon arrival into the City at the start of the Docklands, to give legibility to the townscape and to act as a visual counterbalance to the 30 metre high ESB generating station on the opposite side of the River. The Docklands Strategy identified the Water Street site as a suitable location for a landmark building on the eastern side of the slipway
the design of the tall building requires to be assessed in its own right given the City Plan Objective to create a landmark building in this area and its wide visual prominence. It is submitted that the design of the tower building is not acceptable for the following reasons:-
รขโฌยข it is an unduly bulky building.
รขโฌยข it is not a distinctive, stand alone building and takes on the articulation of the general buildings being proposed adjacent rather than having a unique, รขโฌลlandmarkรขโฌย treatment.fundamental reconsideration requires to be given to the architectural form if a tall building is to work successfully anywhere on this site.
The spine which ranges from 6 storeys at the rear to 9 storeys at the front and which is at a higher ground level is located some 24 metres from the back walls of 1-3 Castleview Terrace and would visually dominate, overshadow and seriously overlook same
– might I add untrue.
รขโฌยข the tower is relocated to the east of the Plaza reducing the impact on evening sunshine available to the public space.
leaving aside issues of impact on sunlight/daylight the design of the tower is unacceptable in its own right and does not satisfy the requirements for a landmark building. In addition further consideration is required as to its impact on the views of the Montenotte Ridge.
Obviously I can’t give the full report – but the above are some of the highlights.
You decide.
What Water Street would look like under the conditions imposed (consider also the western blocks height reduction by 3 to 4 storeys)Dat fella is entirely contradicting himself.He appeared to want a tall high rise of a high quality,yet said he did’nt, got one and turned it down.This dockland thing is becoming a joke, no tax incentives, beautiful buildings but no planning permision and CIE’s failure to start up Horgans key. We’ll end up with a load of 5-7 storey buildings sprawling across the docklands in a decades time.
Indeed a very disappointing outcome ๐ Do you think there is anything people on this forum could do to complain about the decision? Email someone in CC etc?
๐ Blackpool Developments, the Shipton Group SPV controlled by Clayton Love Jnr., has applied for a further alteration to the next phase of its Polefield development at Blackpool. The 100m euro development saw completion of the 1st face last November (2004) with the opening of what has become one of Cork’s best retail parks (incl.’ing 7 large ground floor retail units – the most recent tenant being Land of Leather, filling the final retail unit) and multi-storey car-park facilities. Late this March, Blackpool Developments applied for a considerable alteration to a new 90,000sq ft office building (with ground floor retail) it is to begin construction, and now, it has applied to make changes on the new 8-storey (7 floor) mixed-use building, near the amenity park and hotel site. The building will contain 8 showrooms, a restaurant, 55,000sq ft of office space over 5 levels, and 28 apartments over the remaining area. The alterations applied for include a minor increase in height to facilitate a mezzanine structure in each 7th floor apartment – which will allow for a further bedroom, ensuite bathroom, and increased balcony area per apartment. These apartments will be pitched as the development penthouses and will be ‘family-sized’ in nature which falls in line with CCC plans to attract more inner-city living by providing new residential space large enough to accommodate young families etc.
– the other project designed with this ideology in mind is O’Flynn Construction (OFC)’s Eglinton Street development, with some apartments extending to a very generous 1,900sq ft. OFC have indicated that they are near some form of resolution on the issues dogging their fantastic project w.r.t. basement car-parking and glazing/light reflection issues from the tower element to approaching traffic on the South City Link. A study embarked upon by OFC and Wilson Architecture is to address this issue for CCC.
:rolleyes: Although I didn’t hear this myself, Tommy Barker had a small piece in the Irish Examiner today about how Joe Gavin was not oppose to a 17-storey tower at the Water Street site – but that it could be addressed in a further application. We’ll have to see about that, Mr. McMahon is not a happy camper at the moment following the decision made by CCC. An appeal is likely but I’ll have confirmation on that for Monday (maybe sooner). What has been worth noting is the general outrage and anger expressed toward the Council following their ruling on Water Street – not just by the developer, design team, business leaders or members of this forum, but even the general outrage of aware people on the streets of Cork. Few developments ‘refused’ in this way have stirred persons at a public level as the Water Street issue – interesting.-> also, in response to rodger and opus regarding what can people on this forum do to help make a stand against such a poor planning move and for once, stand-up against the antidevelopment campaigners – I’m looking into a possible manner of contribution for concerned citizens on how this decision has frustrated them and affected prospective development in Cork. Leave it with me – it will obviously be a free method of contribution, and will most likely only entail a ‘petition’ of sorts, with persons affording only their name and perhaps e-mail address/address in utter confidence to an appellant source involved in the development first-hand. It may not be feasible as I do not want persons to feel a loss of privacy, and further, the developer may rather against ‘petition’ style lobbies – I know, personally, I would, but like I said, work in progress.
It does appear a little unfortunate that Water St was given the thumbs down, although from the issues discussed above it would appear that neither the design nor the density were the problem areas. I think that this refusal/conditional permission high-lihts a much broader issue, namely traffic generation and the public transport deficit faced not only in this prime site in Cork but accross the Country. It ultimately hig-lights that no matter how hard you try and how much progress you make with a scheme there will always be one or two variables outside your control as a property developer, most typically transport related and something that this current government has failed miserably upon. If this type of development is turned down, we are in worse trouble than I thought. Rant over off to the jungle….
๐ The final tower crane by Cleary Doyle was erected over the site to the rear of Cork City Hall. The site will take a new form over the next 18 months in the shape of a new 90,000sq ft extension, housing all Cork City Council departments, designed by ABK Architects.
The refusal of the Water Street development is nothing short of criminal. That’s for sure. However, it raises the question: what is a landmark building?
It seems to me the tower was refused bcause it looked too much like the rest of the development to be considered ‘landmark’, i’d kind of agree with this definition- i mean, whats the point in having a landmark building if it just looks the same as the rest of it- just bigger. i.e. bigger does not make it ‘landmark’.
That being said, landmark or not, this was an excellent development which has been pissed away by some backward planners in CCC.
Fingers crossed for some sort of intervention.
Anyone been able to lay their hands on images of the new archives in Blackpool?@Radioactiveman wrote:
The refusal of the Water Street development is nothing short of criminal. That’s for sure. However, it raises the question: what is a landmark building?
It seems to me the tower was refused bcause it looked too much like the rest of the development to be considered ‘landmark’, i’d kind of agree with this definition- i mean, whats the point in having a landmark building if it just looks the same as the rest of it- just bigger. i.e. bigger does not make it ‘landmark’.i think its wot you make it. and with water st – its unfair to dismiss it cos of one persons opinion but also in the first plan, the tower brought a sense of symmetry to the scheme cos it was right in the middle, from what i read here it was moved east at the request of the planners. so thats kind of unfair that it was refused on that basis. also the towers height alone woulda made it a landmark in cork like county hall is. the tower was like the peak of the development and brought a sense of unifrmity to the whole thing.a completely difrent building in the middle of it all woulda looked stupid.
๐ Blackpool Developments have been granted permisison to alter Block D of their Blackpool Retail Park Phase 2 development. The proposal will see an increase in the space of the office block , as well as an increased ground floor retail area of approx. 10,000sq ft.
๐ Lidl GmbH have applied for permission with Cork County Council to develop a new foodstore with 118 car-parking spaces along the Crosshaven Road, Carrigaline.
More interesting(er) news hopefully late this evening.Good evening all, I recently noticed a site of almost sixteen acres on the outskirts of the city lota more House.While the site is restricted for residential use there is scope for intensification of current commercial use which is hotel use.This property is on the eastern corridor to Cork City although in the county and restricted by servaso due to Flo Gas in the Tivoli Docks.I think this could be a very interesting proposition tender date is april 29th,I think.
Has any got details on the development on Copley St.under contruction by Coffey looks interesting?Hi all,
any updates from last night’s meeting at City Hall where the contentious issue of the portakabin on Patrick Street was being discussed?I was surprised to see it feature on the Sunday Independent, along with full colour photo. Maybe they’ll sit up and listen now.
@rodger wrote:
Has any got details on the development on Copley St.under contruction by Coffey looks interesting?
The Copley Street project is being developed by Corbett Bros (Michael & Kevin), designed by PRC Architects, Structural Engineers are Niall Fitzsimons and constructed by Coffey Construction. It’s a actually quite a nice development with 60,000sq ft of offices over 5 floors, ground floor commercial units (restaurant, gym and retail), 8 student apartments, 38 residential apartments and 90 basement car-parking and 50 bicycle parking spaces. I quite like the circular link between the building sections on the Copley Street elevation. I hope the recently applied for and granted ‘elevational treatments’ don’t mess up the original design by tarting it with cheap finishes.
๐ฎ McCarthy Developments Ltd are expecting a decision today (lest we see Further Information) on their 100,000sq ft, 8-storey, 25meuro business and IT office development for Centre Park Road. Design is by Murray O’Laoire. I can tell you in advance, its pretty positive.
๐ McCarthy Developments Ltd have been granted planning for their 8-storey, 110,000sq ft office development on the former Goldcrop premises along Centre Park Road in the southern docklands area.
The development will consist of 7-floors, with a reduced footprint 8th storey providing over 110,000sq ft of office space for business and technology uses. The new building, designed by Oisin Creagh of Murray O’Laoire Architects, will be constructed over a dual-basement car-parking facility of 211 spaces. The building will link with McCarthy Developments HQ building, Centre Park House, next door – which will be scheduled for a refurbishment to coincide with the project.
The project has also been displayed to the OPW regarding a new home for the Revenue Commissioners, but it is not known how far such talks have advanced. Paul Kenny’s recently lodged plans for St. Patrick’s Quay will undoubtedly offer a very attractive option for the OPW.
McCarthy Developments purchased the former Goldcrop site of 2.2 acres for an estimated 2m euros from agents Lisney earlier this year.
Centre Park House which will adjoin the new development
The development site as it stands.19 conditions were imposed on the planning, but thankfully it was just the standard requests such as contribution fees, finishings etc. Evelyn Mitchell was the planner involved (also handling Eglinton Street).
After almost 28 months on site, PJ Hegarty & Son Ltd removed their tower crane from over Hornibrook Holdings’ (John Hornibook) Camden Wharf development of 58 apartments, 56 basement car-parking spaces and 9 commercial units incl. restaurant. The project was one of the first redevelopment projects on this side of the Lee to get moving – in that time, numerous other projects have started and completed, including Hanranka’s large 90-unit development along Lower John Street and Phase 1 of Sean Mhuileann (also designed by J.E. Keating & Associates) by Joe Carey and Frank Sheahan. Units at Camden Wharf have sold out in the first phase of sales, with prices starting from 295,000euros for the smaller of the 3, 2-bedroom apartment types. Phase 2 sales have begun with Frank V. Murphy Auctioneers and Adriana Hegarty Real Estate handling enquiries. Parking spaces are sold out a 50,000euros a go.
Across the road, OSB Group’s Camden Court development has seen strong sales for Phase 1 of its development, with John F. Supple Contractors beginning preliminary work on Phase 2 – this will see the addition of 55 further apartments, a new Cork Arts Theatre and new Pa Johnsons Bar. The development, designed by James Leahy & Associates, will also house extensive roof-top gardens and amenity facilities.
*UPDATES*๐ The 2nd largest global coffee chain, UK-based Costa Coffee, is to open its first 2 Irish stores in Cork over the coming weeks. The stores will be based at Blackpool S.C. and Douglas Court S.C. with plans on a city centre store pending on performance. The stores will be opened by Tuli Holdings, the Scottish-registered holdings group, already owners of the master-franchises in Ireland for Pizza Hut, KFC and fashion-stores, The Jean Scene. Starbucks, the world’s largest coffee brand operator, which is scheduled to open its flagship store in Dublin’s College Green over the coming weeks, have also been assessing a possible city centre store in Cork. Though I can’t indicate the location as of yet for privacy reasons, 2 locations on ๐ /in/around Patrick’s Street have already been discussed. I have it on good word that Starbucks will most likely open a store based on performances of its 3 prospective Dublin units – and their market research in Cork has been generally for approximations, with a possible opening come Autumn/Winter 2005 – pending. Stores are also planned by Starbucks for Galway, Limerick and Waterford later this year. The Cork market is already well served by coffee chains Gloria Jeans, BB’s, Cafe Gusto (opening a further unit along the boardwalk at City Quarter on Lapps Quay soon) and now Costa, among others.
This news will be formally announced tomorrow morning.
๐ Brooklyn Properties Ltd (Gerry Wycherley’s Omnistone) have been greenlit by Cork County Council for the development of a 137-bedroom hotel at Cork Airport Business Park, the highly successful office and services venture now under its 2nd phase of construction, developed by Brooklyn Properties and built by Michael McNamara & Co. Construction. The 1st phase of the development, which included 18 sepearte office buildings, was constructed by Bowen Construction at a value of 64m euros – this new phase is estimated at a value of 50m euros and will consist of 10 further office blocks (with a completion date set for May 2007).
The new 137-bedroom hotel will be built over a basement car-park and will consist of a restaurant, bar, 9 meeting rooms, seperate function room, an indoor leisure centre with fitness area and swimming pool. Rumours endure that Brooklyn have been holding talks with Marriott Hotels & Resorts to operate the hotel premises, coincidentally, Marriott are among the major tenants of the 1st Phase of the business park. However, no confirmation has yet been served – as other talks have also been on-going with a number of other potential operators. Brooklyn Properties have also assessed the possibility of operating the hotel itself. An announcement is expected within the coming weeks where confusion will be hopefully clarified.
This development comes on the back of a recent grant afforded the existing 75-bedroom Great Southern Hotel Cork Airport for a new, 3-storey, 57-bedroom extension onto their premises. The GSH Cork Airport is one of the few profitable venues within the loss-making enterprise – the current subject of privatisation speculation (as a sell off of the DAA).
The new 137-bedroom hotel will serve the new terminal ably and will earmark families as well as business travellers ~ GSH is already an established business hotel hub.
A Cork Airport Business Park building – part of Phase 1๐ Well its official now, Aer Lingus have ruled out any operations for Cork – USA transatlantic flights – despite the promises made of former CEO Willie Walsh and even though existing regulations permit it to do so.
The airline said that it wishes now to focus on developing its Cork – Continental Europe flights, which this summer will see a 50% capacity increase afforded these operations w/ new routes to Munich, Rome, Milan, Nice, Barcelona among others. Increased capacities will also be available on existing routes such as Paris, Amesterdam, Alicante and Malaga.
Aer Arann say they’re talks with investors regarding a Cork – New York JFK route are still ongoing, as well as discussions with the ILFSC (aircraft leasing company) for what is believed to be a number of Airbus A330-200 aircraft with a 232-seat configuration. The company says they need an estimated 30m euros in additional investment to finance the service – one which is not expected to begin within the next 18 months.
However, a perhaps, thin sheet of light is coming from US-side, with an established US airline looking to commence flights between Cork – New York (possibly Newark), however talks have yet to be set officially between Irish-based directors of the airline and the CAA.
*UPDATES*๐ Atlas Developments are to apply for permission to develop a 20-unit, 3-storey 25,000sq ft over basement car-park light-industrial/technology and business centre along the Old Mallow Road near Blackpool. It is hoped that the project could create up to 100 new jobs in the area.
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