Look at de state of Cork, like!

A bright light of hope extinguished for a very dull but potentially beutiful part of cork city.I have often felt that Dublin got where it is becase it is the capital and in turn the political powerhouse of Ireland.We have the talent but we do not have the clout.

Cork needs new blood in the city and county if this does not happen durring the current economic environment nothing will happen in Cork however the capital will continue to prosper.

In one word disgraceful!

Lets hope Ronnie Mcdowell uses his incredible powers of COMPROMISE!

One thing that has struck me in my short particapation on this forum is the well balanced and narrated attitudes of the forum members.

Is this a site where people discuss opinions with each other or do we feel strongly enough to make our opinions heard?

At local level objections or appeals are always anti development and can make a difference and it must be said sometimes deservedly so.

Through our informal chair Lexington may I suggest that we make submissions on developments that we feel may have a positive impact on our City?

I am not talking about a new pro highrise group,rather people that voice their opinions on projects like Water st.Eglinton st.

One person doing something is a lot better than ten thousand talking about it.

Sorry …Having trouble with drawings that i scanned.. Will post proper ones ( Exterior Looks etc) when i get a chance.. thx :confused: problems with my scanner i think..

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😡 In actuality, CCC have only granted permission for under half of the 304 residential units proposed by Werdna’s Water Street project.

The 17-storey, 58m tower had been specifically shift east at the request of planners in the extensive pre-planning dialogue between the developer, Murray O’Laoire and CCC – but in the final decision, has been entirely ruled out. The remaining apartment blocks – which averaged 9 stories were cut back to 5 stories. Jim O’Donovan (Director of Planning) said, contrary to the words of Mark McMahon (developer) and Sean Kearns (architect), that ‘height was always a factor in discussions’. Planning consultant John Crean of Cunnan Stratton Reynolds has vehemently argued this.

Sean Kearns has said that this sends all the wrong signals for the quality development of Cork’s Docklands. By granting permission for 150 apartments, it’s almost mocking Werdna’s intentions – almost saying, we want the public plazas etc, but move off with the development. Werdna were hardly ever going to proceed w/ such a half-realised format of their project. It stands that Cork has possibly lost one of the best examples of quayside and docklands development anywhere in Ireland (in my opinion). As said by John Crean, “We have never had an experience like this anywhere in Ireland.”

I would like to see the development vindicated on appeal.

@lexington wrote:

Yes, it’s true… Senior Planner Ronnie McDowell is likely to recommend refusal come next Monday’s decision date for the superb Water Street development. Even considering the extensive pre-planning talks between developer Mark McMahon’s Werdna Ltd, architects Murray O’Laoire and city planners on the revised plan for Water Street – which saw considerable 25% reductions in residential unit numbers, reductions in height, increased commercial provision etc etc – issues regarding height, density, overshadowing, traffic management, among others – have prompted CCC not to find favour with the project. In my opinion, this represents the biggest mistake CCC have made so far this year. I am told from the inner realms that Werdna will seek to appeal this case should a final refusal decision be made.

This is devastating blow to the Cork Docklands development flow and to Werdna who spent so much time, money and effort trying to get this right. I can only hope that ABP have more sense about them on appeal.

Clearer details will be made as time progresses.

I really can’t sum up my disappointment at this decision. The 2 genetlemen I attained this info from earlier this week were equally angered and saddened – and rightly so! The news was confirmed again today by a further source.

It’s a sad step in Cork’s regeneration.

this is an utter outrage and a complete disgrace, the council should be boxed for this stupid stupid decision.

so much for the regeneration of the docklands

this is a sad day for this project!

lex

re the werdna refusal, never seen your words so animated, just shows how ticked off you are It’s a bizarre situation to have talks all the way along with the developers and then sort of kind of half-refuse, it seems to be pure politics. . Its like they seem to think that they have to be seen to refuse, then they pretend to make a fuss about it and eventually will grant permission after people point out how stupid their decisions are. Its about time the whole planning process was utterly revamped although with Dick Roche as minister, there isnt a hope in hell of a logical decision happening. Then you have Frinailla getting refused planning in Watercourse Rd but Joe Gavin can step in then and single handedly sort it for them.

I was in talks with a planner about a site and made all the required changes and then when i put in the application with all the changes that had been discussed with the planner to my utter astonishment it was refused. What was the point in my investing time money and energy and all I was doing was keeping the planner happy? I got the permission after logging and diarising the meetings and proving I had made the changes AT THEIR REQUEST. Idiotic.

Whats frustrating is that Cork is of a size that has SO much potential, We need a concert venue, the showgrounds needs a revamp and the fact that you STILL cant get public transport after 11.15 at night is hilarious.

whats the word on the €180m Dunkathel house devt?

i reckon that an appeal of the water street decision could be a wise choice – very strong planning + development basis for appeal i think – does anyone know the size of the site – out of interest??

@bunch wrote:

i reckon that an appeal of the water street decision could be a wise choice – very strong planning + development basis for appeal i think – does anyone know the size of the site – out of interest??

4 acres on the button.

The case for appeal is very strong. A previous application for high-rise on the eastern front (this time at Silversprings) was lodged 2 years ago by O’Brien & O’Flynn Ltd for a 15-storey residential tower, designed by Dennehy + Dennehy, and which was pitched on top of the slope in Tivoli not far from the Moran Silversprings Hotel. Though the tower was removed by CCC condition, on appeal, ABP inspector Bernard Dee stated that Cork needed some skyline distinction on the eastern front – providing a nice urban balance with consideration to County Hall in the west. The board over-ruled the planning inspector’s recommendation of grant stating that although they agreed Cork needed some aerial distinction in this regard, the tower was located in an unsuitable area and would be better located closer to the city centre (i.e. north-east docklands). This gives Water Street a very strong position in that sense as it provides for a tower in a location noted by ABP themselves.

The loss of privacy issue is farsical considering that most Lower Glanmire Road residencies are sheltered by the warehousing to the north of the Water Street site and that the tower was relocated east (at the planner’s request!) minimising disruption, which it most certainly does. Further, the profile of the tower is compliant with CCC Development Plan regulations – slender on the north-south axis – and is thus not a valid source of refusal.

A positive decision for Eglinton St. seems unlikely now!

I’m a little more optimistic – but it will depend on the details of the Further Info submitted and how CCC react to that. OFC say they are close to getting this together soon now.