Look at de state of Cork, like!
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Hi all,
Fascinating thread, especially for someone in exile. Fantastic work by Lexington and others in keeping everyone up to date.I have no background in architecture etc. However, would it not be hugely beneficial to a city like Cork if there were more buildings like the Crawford Gallery extension. It would be great if the powers-that-be were more controversial than conservative. Build a whole tourism industry around the architecture of the city. This would draw in huge numbers of toursits and investors. Instead, every scheme seems to be reigned back by mediocrity. Anybody familiar with the Ray Stata building in MIT in Boston?
http://web.mit.edu/buildings/statacenter/
Imagine something like that on one of the quays in Cork, or as the new school of music.The madder the better, I reckon. If it was up to me, there wouldnt be a square building in the city.I know that narrow mided residents’ objections are to blame for alot of the mediocrity we see. But how big a factor is cost in all of these things?
🙂 Fleming Construction have begun development of 203 bedspaces of student accommodation over 45 apartments in a series of 4 to 5 storey blocks. The project is to be located on the former M&P O’Sullivan Warehousing site at Victoria Cross, right beside Phase 2 of Victoria Mills (also beginning development). The development is being undertaken by Fleming Construction on behalf of UCC. The deconstruction and removal of the existing warehouses has revealed a surprisingly large site. The project was designed by Bertie Pope & Associates. Issues regarding the proposals finish were raised in planning but have apparently been rectified to an acceptable standard.
Has anyone a proper update on the airport??? Why havent we low cost fligts across Europe like Shannon! And the excuse about the airport charges being too high is so old at this stage. Ryanair starts a new route to Liverpool in 2 weeks, wooop dee f**king dooo! The least the penny-pinching airline could do is start routes to places like Malaga or Stockholm, somewhere that would be different to London. Even Kerry has Frankfurt. Likewise to easyJet and bmiBaby. We dont need more flights to London or Nottingham, a bit of variety would do Cork good. Espically the business it would do for the area, having direct flights to financial hubs around Europe. Come on, Cork has an airprt too!
Finally got round to taking a close look at HH’s ‘City Quarter’ over the weekend and must say that I was very impressed. Especially liked the atrium in the Clarion Hotel and the public space / boardwalk outside. It kind of reminded me of the many occasions where I’ve been abroad, seen something nice and questioned why we don’t have something like this at home. This in itself is something of a reflection of other city developments in that most would leave me cold at worst and unengaged in remaining instances. But, credit where it’s due to HH. It’s a shame that so many of our primary transport routes through the city are quay-based since an expansion of this boardwalk concept would be most welcome and would totally change the dynamic within the city. I’m aware that there are strong plans to increase boardwalk areas along the quays but, I assume, in many case the waterfront will be shared with the inevitable motorised traffic.
I agree – HowardHoldings really did go all out on City Quarter. Would you believe that in original talks CCC wanted to maintain a motor-accessible quay front??? So in fairness the Howard, they really did pick the penny on this one. As Greg Coughlan said, there is the general perception that all developers are simply ‘here to destroy what is there and leave with a profit at a community’s expense’. Yes it is important to profit, if there is no profit, there is no project in the first place – but City Quarter is a good and leading example of how a development can benefit not only a community, but a city. It’s an example adopted now by Werdna at Water Street and even OCP with the Jurys redevelopment – as they are providing a public amenity space and riverside walk/boardwalk along their Lancaster Quay/Washington Street West waterfront. I like the pedestrian friendly element to the City Quarter quayside – and agree similar initiatives should be encouraged.
I don’t agree that too much boardwalk will be good for the quays. Looking at dublin’s quays they look cluttered with this thing grafted onto them. In fairness the boardwalk at CIty Quarter looks fine but to overdo this all over the city quay walls would be a big mistake. Below City Quarter would be fine but we should not repeat the mistake of dublin.
@A-ha wrote:
Has anyone a proper update on the airport??? Why havent we low cost fligts across Europe like Shannon! And the excuse about the airport charges being too high is so old at this stage. Ryanair starts a new route to Liverpool in 2 weeks, wooop dee f**king dooo! The least the penny-pinching airline could do is start routes to places like Malaga or Stockholm, somewhere that would be different to London. Even Kerry has Frankfurt. Likewise to easyJet and bmiBaby. We dont need more flights to London or Nottingham, a bit of variety would do Cork good. Espically the business it would do for the area, having direct flights to financial hubs around Europe. Come on, Cork has an airprt too!
A-ha, Cork Airport launches direct flights to Brest, Brusssels, Budapest, Faro, Munich, Nice, Rome this summer. There will also be direct services to Liverpool and Durham/Middlesbrough, but I guess those ones don’t interest you 😉
IMO the policy of Cork airport is more beneficial to the long-term development of the airport than Shannon’s. At Cork the largest airline will be Aer Lingus who will control slightly in excess of 30% of the seats. At Shannon Ryanair will control around 50% of the seats. When Michael O’Leary says jump Shannon will have to jump.
– also regarding OCP’s Academy Street development, OCP have apparently struck a deal with the Reidy-family (owners of Le Cheateau bar) whereby the bar will be retained in its current usage as is, but which will allow OCP utilise its valuable layout to able its Academy Street development further. See previous posts.
There is no deal – and no discussions i have heard
@Radioactiveman wrote:
I don’t agree that too much boardwalk will be good for the quays. Looking at dublin’s quays they look cluttered with this thing grafted onto them. In fairness the boardwalk at CIty Quarter looks fine but to overdo this all over the city quay walls would be a big mistake. Below City Quarter would be fine but we should not repeat the mistake of dublin.
Radioactiveman, from a purely aesthetic perspective the things I dont particularly like about the boardwalk are the way in which it makes the quays look a little unbalanced and that it is broken up by the bridges. However, there was no way that anyone in their right mind was going alter any of the bridges through which it passes, and when you are actually on it, it is quite a nice and relaxing place to be.
Good morning I was just wondering if any one had seen propsals for the Capitol cinema I think you would all agree that this is the most high profile junction in the city.Lets hope they spend a few quid.
On the issue of the boardwalks I believe they could work from the Clarion up into Docks, however I think they would look totaly out of character in the rest of the “old”city.@tomthevet2003 wrote:
There is no deal – and no discussions i have heard
Well I did say ‘apparently’ ]Good morning I was just wondering if any one had seen propsals for the Capitol cinema I think you would all agree that this is the most high profile junction in the city.Lets hope they spend a few quid.[/QUOTE]
An image of the Mount Kennett proposal is posted (I think) 2 pages back in thumbnail form. The project is valued at 30m euro and is designed by Sabine Wittman of Dungarvan practice, The e-Project. I wouldn’t be getting too excited. I’ll have more info on that particular development later this week.
@lexington wrote:
Well there you have it – it’s official!
You may remember that way back I reported that a Limerick-based developer had been in talks with Ward Anderson about purchasing the Capitol Cineplex for a retail development, well now it’s public and Mount Kennett Investments (John Costello and Paul O’Brien) are the buyers indeed.
Ward Anderson had been maintaining talks with CCC about seeking planning permission on a redevelopment of the site – which they then would sell with F.P.P. ~ however Mr. Costello’s persistence evidently paid off. Although I was aware that the deal had been struck, I was unaware until last night that planning would be sought so soon. And yes, planning is being sought.
The development is scaled down from original plans by the developer (other developers, 1 other Limerick-based group ~ I may have mentioned much earlier, had very exciting plans for the site, but eventually dropped out of the run). The development will now see the Capitol demolished and redeveloped as a 33,000sq ft department store with 18 overhead apartments (I don’t like the idea of apartments at this location!) . The design is by Sabine Wittman of Dungarvan practice e-Project ~ and quite frankly, the application design is sub-par and undeserving of the superb location. I’m disappointed at the lazy route taken by the developers and design team in the end. The boxy and incoherrent roof-line is ugly and unkempt. It reminds me of the St. Patrick’s Quay frontage of the Metropole Hotel (that horrible lemon box with even uglier roof-top box). Some of the other competing proposals (OCP for the record pulled out of talks in late 2004) had a far greater degree of panache – this is a very poor effort. But I’ll let you decide – I don’t have any clear images of the final design yet, so in fairness to Tommy Barker, well done for getting this image. I should have better images come a couple of weeks.
Also, today is a big decision day for some major Cork projects – fingers crossed for Frinailla and Mary Collins’ projects!Bargain basement!
🙂 Cumnor Construction have seen the appeal lodged against their 22-unit apartment development for Sunday’s Well, designed by Jack Coughlan Associates, withdrawn. A private deal was struck, of which the details are as yet unclear, between the developers and resident Brian O’Sullivan (I believe it was concerning property claims – though I’m open for correction). Cumnor made notable rearrangements to their development at CCC level in order to appease concerns, nonetheless, an appeal was brought against them in early March. Its good to see that a compromise has been worked out. Construction is set for early Summer.
🙂 John Cleary Developments have submitted a newly revised plan for their lands adjoining Kilnap’s North Point Business Park near Blackpool. Earlier this year JCD where refused planning by CCC for 17 light industrial units which, if had been granted, were earmarked to create 300 new jobs in the North Cork Area. JCD have gone back to the drawing board with engineers Niall Fitzsimons Ltd rather than appeal (a sensible move in my opinion) and now have presented CCC with a revised application – still incorporating 17 light industrial units, only this time, they comprise part of a new building measuring some 47,000sq ft +. The revisions should hopefully allay concerns raised by CCC, which ultimately led to the project’s refusal, related to negative skyline disruption, poor access, traffic management etc. The new plan still aims to create a similar, if not, equal number of new jobs for Blackpool and the surrounding areas of North Cork.
🙂 Aras Developments have begun work on its Victoria Station student accommodation development of 24 apartments, medical units and parking at the former Canty Family owned site along the Wilton Road. It will be constructed around the same time-frame as 2 other student developments nearby at the former M&P O’Sullivan site (being developed by Fleming Construction on behalf of UCC), and Phase 2 of Paul Montgomery and Edmund Kenneally’s Victoria Mills.– speaking of Montogomery-Kenneally projects, they are awaiting an approval tonight by CCC to joint-purchase a nice area of land along the Boreenmanna Road (Rose Cottage proximity) along with Barry Supple of John F. Supple Contractors. The land could net approx. 7m euros for CCC and will be developed under the condition that 40 or so of the 150+ units planned for the site are handed over to social-affordable use.
I take it you like the Capitol Cineplex plans then rodger ? 😉Yes just what we need another space ship landing in the city,whats their looks better!Although the property represents a great opportunity for Pana n GParade.Good quality design pays off in the longterm.
Hi Lex… just wondered if you have any updates on Water St./Eglinton St?
Does anyone know the time frame for Jacob’s Mill? Are they still considering a food hall?
I had heard they were inviting people to approach them in relation to running food counters on site, if so does anyone have any contact details (more gastronomical than architectural of course).What’s your opinion on the refurbished courthouse… was it worth the incredibly long wait?
Will the Mannix development on Washington Street be going ahead this year?
What is being developed on the site of Doyles on Grand Parade?
Many questions… thanks in advance 🙂
@mickeydocs wrote:
Hi Lex… just wondered if you have any updates on Water St./Eglinton St?
Water Street saw its final submission date last Monday week – 12 submissions were received by CCC. Same number as the previous incarnation of the development. Not all however are objections. Of course An Taisce are in there also – but the general drift of the objections are height, over-development, devaluation of property etc. One submission is an indenticate of the submission handed in to CCC from the last Water Street submission (referencing the 400 apartments and all!) Goes to show you the level of attention people pay to projects like these before objecting. A farse! Early indications suggest planners are pleased with the changes but will undoubtedly still find a picking point.
Eglinton Street – may get a move back on track with the next 2 weeks. O’Flynn Construction (OFC) have held meetings with Joe Gavin (City Manager), the Director of Planning (Mr. O’D) and Senior Planner. The talks have apparently been constructive. Expect some alterations to be made concerning the prime disputing ground – basement car-parking.
@mickeydocs wrote:
Does anyone know the time frame for Jacob’s Mill? Are they still considering a food hall?
I had heard they were inviting people to approach them in relation to running food counters on site, if so does anyone have any contact details (more gastronomical than architectural of course).:)This has been an ongoing source of confusion. Tom McCarthy had this placed earmarked for redevelopment with Joseph Lane and Sons Ltd as main contractors for late last year. Then there was a change of contractor to O’Flynn of Banteer (also working on Mr. McCarthy’s Kingsley Hotel extension) – with progress promised for early Jan 2005. Then Joe Gavin publicly announced that he’d received word scaffolding would be erected by mid to late Jan 2005. But besides a little movement within the Mill, nothing has happened properly yet. MOLA are architects for the project.
@mickeydocs wrote:
What’s your opinion on the refurbished courthouse… was it worth the incredibly long wait?
Over-run and over-priced I suppose – but then again Ascon had their work cut out for them too. I’m really just glad its done and in fairness, the Court House looks great. Especially by night.
@mickeydocs wrote:
Will the Mannix development on Washington Street be going ahead this year??
Currently, Mr. Mannix has seen his project brought to appeal. A decision is due for May. It would be a grossly unfair twist were the project, after so many changes and alterations to allay CCC concerns, to be refused on appeal. The street and site are in need of an improvement to fill that unsightly gap in the streetscape. The design is a departure yes, (Dermot Coveney & Associates of Monkstown), but it’s an interesting departure. I’m glad the unsightly box-like, roof-top apartments were removed – there is a great sense of coherency to the street scape now. But the appeal may all change that! 🙁 Whether or not this project gets the go-ahead will all depend on the appeal outcome.
@mickeydocs wrote:
What is being developed on the site of Doyles on Grand Parade?
JD Hotels (of the East Douglas Village Hotel) are redeveloping a new Manhattan-style bar/restaurant and ancilllary offices over 4-floors at this location. Wilson Architecture are responsible for the design. It was also offer a new ‘Gateway’ entrance to Tobin Lane.
I see Viva Cork are awaiting a decision on whether U2 will or will not play Cork in August? If they are, front row centre!!!i had a look at the waterstreet file in CCC last week- the objections are your usual run of the mill- one of the submissions is a 5 page hymn of praise for the development ( a lot of which i would agree with- it is refreshing to see people putting in positive comments for a change)- the An Taisce submission was quite surprising- other than a reference to the “Sore Thumb” syndrome it was in support of the scheme in general (except some minor caveats) and even went so far as to say that the design is worthy of the docklands and will be a good demonstration of high density city living!
well,consisdering the CCC expressed importance of Docklands development and considering the great lenghts the applicant has gone through to accomodate the neighbours, andconsidering that broadly An Taisce are for it, how can CCC do anything other than grant this application? i will wait with bated breadth
@Lincoln wrote:
the An Taisce submission was quite surprising- other than a reference to the “Sore Thumb” syndrome it was in support of the scheme in general (except some minor caveats) and even went so far as to say that the design is worthy of the docklands and will be a good demonstration of high density city living!
I don’t know why you find this surprising, it appears from the images posted here to be a good development and An Taisce as much as anyone else like to see positive design precedents as it raises the bar to an acceptable design standard which is at the end of the day what is best for Cork.
@lexington wrote:
This has been an ongoing source of confusion. Tom McCarthy had this placed earmarked for redevelopment with Joseph Lane and Sons Ltd as main contractors for late last year. Then there was a change of contractor to O’Flynn of Banteer (also working on Mr. McCarthy’s Kingsley Hotel extension) – with progress promised for early Jan 2005. Then Joe Gavin publicly announced that he’d received word scaffolding would be erected by mid to late Jan 2005. But besides a little movement within the Mill, nothing has happened properly yet. MOLA are architects for the project.
They are most likely waiting for the Kingsley Job to be completed before they start on this site.
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