Look at de state of Cork, like!
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@phil wrote:
Can you elaborate on this a bit more? To what extent was it to be a gift? What was the Nautical Notion? I apolagise if this is further back in this thread, but I dont recall it and there is so much on this thread that it would be difficult to find.
Thanks
Phil
Yeah Phil, while providing the finishing touches to their 100m euro City Quarter development on Lapps Quay (which = 190 bedroom Clarion Hotel, 80,000sq ft + offices, 17,000sq ft retail, leisure centre, 265-space underground car-park, reconstructed quayside and promenade, boardwalk, docking pontoon, cafes etc etc), Howard Holdings decided to contribute a specially commissioned sculpture, 12.9m high, of a quill which was to be located outside the Clarion’s front entrance. The sculpture, 500,000euros worth (and not in the original plans), allowed the developers utilise a Cork City Development Plan 2004 policy which promotes contributions to public art. Greg Coughlan, CEO of Howard Holdings is originally from Cork, and since he moved back to Cork from the UK (to concentrate on Howard Holdings’ new focus on Cork city developments), he decided to add the sculpture – presenting it as a gift to the people of Cork, and hoping it would spur similar efforts from other developers in the city (Mr. Coughlan apparently has a penchant for art). The sculpture was highly welcomed by CCC and got the all clear after planning. Mr. O’Scannlain of An Taisce, and who is based in Bishopstown, sent a single-page submission to CCC, in which he documented his preference for a water feature on the quayside. CCC noted the submission, but also noted that the sculpture was not only ‘highly tasteful’, but had been already commissioned and said it was not in a position ‘to dictate the nature of contributions to public art, as such features are presented in good faith to people of Cork city. They should be valued additionally for generosity. The existing application would contribute positively to public amenity and reflects Cork’s history as originally a marsh settlement’. CCC did note however, they would not grant such contributions if they were grossly out of place and disproportionate to a proposed location, or if they contributed negatively to the public realm. On grant of the sculpture, Mr. Scannlain threatened the developers with appeal, unless the reconsidered their proposal. Howard Holdings vowed to continue with their plans, and subsequently, Mr. Scannlain used organisation money to lodge the 630euro appeal. Now, I am aware that CCC had run the sculpture by An Taisce for its comments – these were supposedly to be included in the submission, so it would be a documented public file, however, such a move was made on a consultation basis. Following this, CCC still concluded that the sculpture was acceptable. The appeal was externally warranted.
Diaspora – I know you and me haven’t agreed on many issues related to An Taisce, but I have very often found much favour with many of your comments beyond that. I do not wish for this to be a nit-picking issue – but I would simply ask you to consider whether or not you a familiar with the details of this particular incident, and furthermore, the 90% rate of An Taisce appeals upheld by ABP is not accurate according to the Bord themselves. The thumbnail below is a chart from ABP – I think also included in their Annual Report (Statistics) available on Paper-back Copy from the Bord (website may also have details???), regarding the number of appeals upheld as a % of the total lodged. The thumbnail in this case represents the % of appeals by An Taisce which were up-held for the year ended 2003. I don’t have figures anymore up-to-date, so unless they have jump 43% in the last year, I don’t know (?)
Anyway, it’s not a dig, just a clarity issue. I have actually found myself in agreeance with Mr. Hurley down here on a number of projects (i.e. Howard Holdings’ Lavitts Quay development and the Arbutus Lodge development – which was subsequently granted permission following a joint An Taisce and Residents appeal) – something I never thought would happen. But it still doesn’t take away from the fact that their Cork track record is not a positive one. That said, may be this year, they’ll turn a corner. I hope so for the sake of Cork’s progress and the reputation of the organisation itself this end of the country. There’s no knocking in this post, so PEACE people! 🙂
I find it amusing that the An Taisce member would be looking for a water feature on the quayside. Is the river not big enough?
Thanks for that Lexington. 12.9 Metres is pretty high isn’t it? That policy sounds like a ‘percent for art scheme’. It will be interesting to see peoples reaction to it when it is put in place. That is when any real controversy is likely to break out. Is is an abstract piece or is it going to be simply a giant Quill? There was an example in Dun Laoghaire where the developers of the Pavillion complex gave a gift of a Michael Warren Sculpture (The Gateway) to the people of Dun Laoghaire. It was not within the planning of the original structure, and therefore should probably not be there in the technical sense. Interestingly those against it managed to get the Councillors to vote on its removal (which was meant to happen), but as soon as this happened those in support of the sculpture started making their voice heard through newpaper articles etc etc. I personally like it and would be disappointed to see it go. Pieces such as this are good in that they get people thinking about the public realm, whether they like the sculpture or not.
@phil wrote:
Pieces such as this are good in that they get people thinking about the public realm, whether they like the sculpture or not.
Agreed. Hey, in Brussels they have a young boy pee-ing in the middle of a street!!! All we have to contend with is a Quill!!! 😀
Moooooooooooooooving along……I hope to bring some good news this week, (fingers crossed!), if not, next week (depending on how the developers work it out).
@lexington wrote:
Lexington I couldn’t find the above image in the report although I did find out that 72.7% of all appeals taken in Cork are upheld or varied regardless of who brought them.
Yeah that sounds like Cork alright!!! I’ll take your word for it – must take a good read through that thing again sometime. It’s the perfect cure for my insomnia. 😉
Must be a dire lack of venues in Cork if a marquee / tent !! has to be erected as a venue for Cork 2005
There are – but that could all change soon. The city is inappropriately under-supplied with decent sized available multi-purpose venues.
Papworth – you’re correct in regard to the lack of venues. You need, though, to bear in mind that, traditionally, large venues DO NOT make huge profits, so are therefore not particularly attractive to developers. However they are of immense value to both the social fabric and the economic well-being of their immediate city. Lots of ‘media-speak’ about a large venue for Cork in the past month but nothing so far …… but all that could change very soon!
@theblimp wrote:
Papworth – you’re correct in regard to the lack of venues. You need, though, to bear in mind that, traditionally, large venues DO NOT make huge profits, so are therefore not particularly attractive to developers. However they are of immense value to both the social fabric and the economic well-being of their immediate city. Lots of ‘media-speak’ about a large venue for Cork in the past month but nothing so far …… but all that could change very soon!
Is Cork too developer driven? I know that most Western Cities are, but surely given the year in it something could have been built instead of a tent!
@theblimp wrote:
..indeed it could …… .and should …… and just might be
That would be good. A positive step. You obviously know something that you are keeping up your sleeve. Make sure to post it here once you can release details. 🙂
yup
…sorry about that!
I can’t say where at present for a number of reasons. But look at it this way, Mahon Point was proposed as a ‘preferred’ site – I mentioned some time back that I didn’t see it as being suitable for a number of reasons (too ‘out of town’ to be of benefit to city business, 1 road in 1 road out, tight site, etc.) Now anyone that has gone near MP in the past month will know that traffic there is chaotic a lot of the time. Add 5,000-6,000 people heading to a concert into that mix and you have mayhem.
Another suggested site was the back of the railway station. Aside from the fact that the site is too tight (narrow) and diesel locos are fairly loud and heavy (= vibrations), CIE have made it pretty clear just how important developing this site is in terms of their current priorities.
So, I can’t tell you where (yet), but hopefully the above will tell you where not!
nope – my understanding is that Paul had looked at something like this some time back (rumour has it that he was also asked by a certain large local developer if he’d be interested in running his ‘out-of-town’ arena if it were built) but nothing seems to have come of it. Again, it’s a difficult one to justify from a normal developers point of view.
I could of course be wrong, lisam, as it has been known to happen in the past!! However the above is the most recent info I have Mr. M’s interest in a local concert arena. By the way, go on, give us a hint, where is Paul’s site to which you refer?
in relation to earlier posts about the An Taisce objection on the Lapp’s Quay Sculpture – according to an bord pleanala’s website, the objection is invalid – no copy of the acknowledgement of planning submission! very surprising methinks.
:rolleyes: After a deferred vote was taken last night by CCC, Howard Holdings have been given the go-ahead to develop the 15m euro WebWorks at Albert Quay. The development will comprise of in excess of 45,000sq ft of IT/Business office space which will be then leased to Enterprise Ireland, who will in turn provide the space to fledgling IT and Financial Businesses – with a special preference for locally based industries. The development will also include an underground car-park of 65 spaces. The vote was deferred last week after councillors objected to Howard Holdings being issued a 700 year lease on Albert House which CCC acquired in the early 1990s. The revised deal will see Howard Holdings take possession of the 2,600sq m to the rear of Albert House for 2.25m euros with an annual rent thereafter of 10 euros. Albert House will remain in CCC hands unequivocally, although now, a question mark is being raised over how the mansion will be incorporated into the new facility in the long-term, but it is unlikely much will change – Howard Holdings will lease the ground floor of Albert House for 2 years to develop a restaurant facility on the premises, with it reverting back to CCC ownership term-end. This month (April) is cited as the start date for the project. 300 jobs will be created once the WebWorks is up and running. John Paul Construction will be main contractors.
😮 Fleming Construction have announced today that they plan a joint 100m euro social-affordable housing scheme with CCC on their lands surrounding the former Our Lady’s Hospital, off Shanakiel Hill. Fleming Construction had original sought to develop a 6-storey student development on the site but were refused on both by both CCC and ABP. The new plans will see 405 houses constructed on the site with 80% of the houses falling into the social-affordable category (a mix of 2 and 3-bedroom detached, semi-deatched & townhouses). I knew plans had been afoot here – but did not know that these were the final plans made. Hmmm.Speaking about that side of the city, does anybody know the current state of play with the Good Shepherd’s Convent up in Sunday’s Well? Is there a development planned there? Is the church, which was ‘accidentally’ burned down going to be reinstated?
🙂 Good news on Albert House.
Wagamama looks great on South Main Street. Also, Mahers on Maylor Street is looking good these days.@Radioactiveman wrote:
🙂 Good news on Albert House.
Wagamama looks great on South Main Street.The portions are something unnatural. Nice venue – and good to see Cork benefiting from an ever expanding variety of such facilities. Captain America’s is due to open upstairs in April.
– Albert House WebWorks is good news for all really – for CCC, for Cork, Cork business, jobs, Enterprise Ireland, Howard Holdings. It’s one of those win-win things.
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