Look at de state of Cork, like!

a lot of corks larger developments escape scrutiny in national circles because people are slow to publish them and show them off. For example in the recent aai awards only billy wilson and james leahy (to my knowledge) were recognised for their work. admittedly billys work is a bit dodge, still working off that expo he collaborated on, but surely cork is producing quality work that should be shown proudly on the national stage.

rkd mccarthy lynch and riordan staehli, and also wain morehead, are doing great work, in housing, public projects, and a few good domestics too. i think the question of bad buildings being allowed permission is a matter to be addressed by people being more informed as to whats going on in their area. for example, the redevelopment of the douglas village shopping centre is being fiercely opposed because the local people take active interest in what is built around them, and it has to be said the proposals are pretty horrific, but at the other side of the city, the new blackpool shopping centre went ahead despite the fact that its a hulk, looks more like a defunct departures lounge than the giant tesco boat that it is.

contrast that with dubliner’s attitudes to major projects, especially when they impact their lives through their scale and strategic importance. look at o’connell street. the spike was help up for years because of individuals who were clued in to what was being planned for their streets, but now patricks street is being ripped apart, beth galli’s monstrous lights are going up everywhere, and people are looking around wide-eyed wondering how all this came about.

Its easy to understand at times why cork based architects are so slow to make efforts toward gaining recognition. With it comes exposure and from that publicity, which invites difficulties in planning and more scrutiny by locals, press and architectural buffs. Contrasting that with a quiet life and easier planning, its not incomprehensible. And anyway, why bother when everyone who cares is based in dublin. Cork people are personified by the likes of Neil Hegarty, recently retired as city architect. He’s a practical, straight down the middle stalwart of traditional approaches to change and development. What cork needs is a litte adventure. A daring new airport, a renewal of the bus and rail bases and the transport infrastructure, a little madness from the planners, and some crazy young architects given the chance to shine. And a big wrecking ball for that infernal county hall

sorry, didint seem that long when i was writing it 🙂

What was that story on the news last night about a fire in a listed building in Cork? One that as luck would have it was proposed to be re-developed as apartments….?

the good sheperd convent in sundays well was burned early yesterday morning. the two wings were ‘saved’, however, the more impressive central section is in very bad shape, the chapel at the rear is extremely poor. i got access up there yesterday, and fire brigade still attempting to put the fire out. there is little or no timber visible, all destroyed, roof is gone, brickwork and stained/decorative glass destroyed. the building was empty, recently sold by ucc, awaiting redevelopment……..protected structure! strange. and very sad

Ugggggleee! It’s a little unfair to just sweep all new developments going on in the city as crap or ugly – O’Callaghans Dev on Lavitts Qy looks pretty cool. Although I must say the Anglesea St one and Eircom/Lapps Qy are crimes against built environment. The city core has had ONE new development in the time of the great property boom that gave the rest of urban Ireland a face lift (the Siemens building near the train station). So Cork is only getting started in the rebulding of the nasty derelict sites. Obviously the first built offices in these areas will come under much more scrutiny cos they’re the most prominent in a pock marked area. All this is a part of a much greater plan over many years. Take a look at the IFSC – there are loads of shite developments there, alone they’d stand out… but in the mass of the surroundings they get away with it. I think the ugly Lapps Qy redev wont seem so bad once the three adjoining dev’s of same height start to rise up, the foundations of those have only just begun.
As for the Anglesea St block – all that area has been ear marked (from there to Albert Rd) as the Civic Gateway for the new docklands so I’d say you’ll probably be seeing more of the same in that general area (goodbye Market Tavern???). There’s talk for a high rise hotel on the An Post site behind the Garda Station so that would make the others newbie’s look timid!

The Opera House is SO MUCH better now than what it was – and with the introduction of the paving to Emmet Place that whole area has really come on. Johnson and Perrot are moving out to make way for some sort of new dev on that site, I think that whole area will really come up.
As for restoring South Mall to “it’s former glory” well that’s kinda hard when most of the city was razed by de Brits in 1920 – u should be grateful for what’s been preserved/survived!
South Mall is a fine fine street – The BOI building is vile, but Cork is hardly alone in having a monster office building next to more classically designed buildings (look most places in Dublin!). If you want to talk ugly – go look at Connolly Hall.

Check out these images of the “extension” of South Mall – could be alot worse – revitalised boardwalk is a plus.

Cork seems to be going through a rapid phase of development of late (the push is on for the cultural capital 2005 celebrations) – lots of derelict sites being cleared. It remains to be seen what will replace them but surely anything is better than falling down buildings

Just seen the images above.
Isn’t it about time that those terrible girders were removed from the bridge by City Hall (A legacy from the days when the centre span of the bridge could be opened to allow ships through.) It hasn’t been opened in decades and all the lifting machinery is long gone so why do these monstrosities remain?

i think those girders are great. like the ones by the bus station. if they were cleaned up a bit and given a fresh coat they’d be an improvement. long live over sized simplistic trusses.

btw, where did those images of the boardwalk come from? whos the architect?

what does bug me however are those stupid canopies ove what looks like an eatery in the second photo

The architect is STW (yawwwwwwwwn – is there any commission they DON’T get) and the developer is Howard Holdings.

As for the girders – an absolute disgrace – and the purple and green “lighting” features installed for the millenium do nothing for them. The girders hardly add a Calatrava-esque flair to the rivers! Tear ’em down.

Speaking of bridges – for a city with as much water as Cork it has never fared well on the bridge front. The new pedestrian bridge to go from Coal Quay to Shandon/Popes Qy area is due to begin construction in November… any ideas what this will look like? I suspect Cork City Council will do their usual concrete slab and utilitarian railings affair… sigh.

I saw an artists impression on the corkcity.ie website – part of the development plan i believe. There are also plans for a new bridge (footbridge I think) linking the new entrance for the railway station with the quays redevelopment. Its still all up in the air though.

I think most of the images have no reflection on the actual plans – they’re just taken from other cities to give a kind of positive ambience to the document. Would be nice though!

wheres that new entrance to the station going? if there was ever a place in need of a major revamp its that kip, and our stinky bus station too. cheapo version of busaras with half heartedly wavy canopy and a facade like a mules hide

The revamped Kent station is going to be very much the focal point for the initial development of the docklands. There are negotiations at present with Treasury and Manor Homes with Cork CC who are developing ALL of Horgan’s Qy for CIE (ala Spencer Dock). There’s talk of gargantuan numbers of apartments plus “landmark” going in (some estimates mean that the single addition of this development will TRIPLE the number of apartments in the city centre!!!). I think they’re being careful about all this so as to pitch future development in the right light (i.e. right densities etc). So there will prob be little news on this till late winter – and the plans for the train station will tie in with this.

In all fairness to the bus station – a true victim of CIE ineptitude – a prime city centre location and yet management couldn’t happily pick any developer partner for the site – what a farce! So so much time has slipped that the canopies are being thrown up as a measure for 2005 “cleanliness”.

Just heard that aer lingus are cancelling their daily flights between dublin & cork, another blow to the real capital. Maybe some other airline will take up the slack

Originally posted by sw101
wheres that new entrance to the station going? if there was ever a place in need of a major revamp its that kip, and our stinky bus station too. cheapo version of busaras with half heartedly wavy canopy and a facade like a mules hide

What are CIEs plans for the 1893 Kent Station?

burn it!!!

The building is going to be preserved and reused – the plans are vague but the word “cultural” crops up – not really sure… think Stack A in the IFSC.

As for Aer Lingus pulling out of Dublin/Cork route… Aer Arran have a sharing agreement with them anyway – so there’s prob some arrangement there.

The building is going to be preserved and reused – the plans are vague but the word “cultural” crops up – not really sure… think Stack A in the IFSC.

As for Aer Lingus pulling out of Dublin/Cork route… Aer Arran have a sharing agreement with them anyway – so there’s prob some arrangement there.

The building is going to be preserved and reused – the plans are vague but the word “cultural” crops up – not really sure… think Stack A in the IFSC.

As for Aer Lingus pulling out of Dublin/Cork route… Aer Arran have a sharing agreement with them anyway – so there’s prob some arrangement there.

Originally posted by sw101
burn it!!!

That wouldn’t surprise me. Looking at what they did to the engine shed in Cobh (removed the roof and built a Garda station in it), anything goes where Irish Rail are concerned.

Eh – not sure why that message appears three times! Apologies to all…

Eh – not sure why that message appears three times! Apologies to all…

Eh – not sure why that message appears three times! Apologies to all…

Eh – not sure why that message appears three times! Apologies to all…

Personally i think there should be put in place a comprehensive masterplan, following studies by external groups and/or a competition, for the whole shambles that is corks transport infrastructure. i mean look at the approaches from the west (where i have to drive in from). loop de loop round the station, go dockside for a bit then back up by the railway carpark and in another u-turn to get to the station. i’m pretty sure irish rail own all that land and its misuse is upsetting. surely all approach bus, rail and car transport could be accommodated on this vast site.

and as an aside, what the hell is the story with the state of that road from silversprings up to the quays. bloody disgrace. remember they closed it for over 6 months for “improvements” and now its even worse.

oh what i wouldnt do for a few billion euro and 3 years of calatravas time

What are they doing with bus station? Someone mentioned canapies. It needs more than that. It needs to be bulldozed and a fresh start made.
Maybe they are actually proud of the reputation that the toilets on the first floor have!
I suppose knowing CIE if they do anything whatsoever with the building the workers will be out on strike.

They should forget about the Parnell place site altogether and move the bus station to the railway station at the same time as they redevelop that.

Of the small to medium sized cities (let’s face it, that’s what Cork is) that I’ve visited – the best combine their bus and rail stations.

There’s lots of potetial for the land between kent station and the river – it could also help the dire access situation (what the hell they thought they were doing with the lwr glanmire rd is beyond me)!

What boy? Sure Cork is HUUUUUGE!

Most of the badness about the Bus/Rail station can be directed towards CIE for it is they who have delayed for years the plans that were already decided upon. Yes – there were plans to move the bus station – but the slowness of CIE meant the boat had sailed, while the train station has been in development limbo (or hell!) for the past five years.

Cork City Council are the ultimate at management speak – they use all the right buzz words “strategy” “study” “6/20 yr plan” and prepare these reports/plans with vigour – they have won believe it or not, international awards for their planning! But the true measure of management is delivery and the focus on delivery of results – which they probably fall down on (badly in the past – things seem to have changed).
That said things like the Bus Station and Train Station were planned for in reports by CCC but when a loss-making sloth-like semi-state controls these, is the much a local authority can do other than formulate a strategy???

Speaking to CIE recently I’ve been told that they have got planning permission for the redevelopment of the PArnel Place bus station and the development is going ahead so the only question now is when?

As predicted nothing has happened with the bus or train station as yet. We are now 9 months from the start of 2005 which is the year Cork has been designated the European capital of culture. By the looks of it only St Patricks street will be completed in time. The tourists will however get to experience the culture of our dilapidated bus and rail stations amongst other things.

seamas brennan was there to plug the fact that he’s throwing 4 million squids at the bus station for refurbishment. like throwing good cash on a bonfire.

And CIE will probably spend the money on meetings about how to do up the bus station rather than actually doing it. At any rate work won’t start until Jan 1st 2006.

Saw in the echo the school of music will be given the go ahead by bertie in the run up to the elections. Tenders returned by Jarvis in 2001 of 58 million squid must now be whittled down to around 50 million. Tight bastards. 10 million less is small change but its going to reduce the potential of this building from world class to stripped out and budgeted

I know that most people will disagree with me on this, but I must say I quite like the Bus Station in Cork. I think it needs some refurbishment, but overall I think it is a very under-rated building.

Yes phil, you’re right. Most people will disagree with you. And on that count, they’re all right

yea, good god, have you ever had the unhappy chance to have to wait for a bus there, not to mention …use the toilets. Raze it.

The train station is also in need of attention.
If only there was someone in charge at CIE who had the foresight and wisdom to develop an integrated bus/rail station on the existing Kent Station site with a new entrance on to patricks quay. Then we might have a public transport terminus worthy of the 21st century instead of the pitiful buildings we have now.

You mean the attractive, red brick station that befits Cork’s status as the second city? What’s wrong with it, other than Bus Eireann don’t use it and there is no political will to force CIE companies to share buildings?

Thats the one. Of course if you moved the bus station all the grannies would be complaining that they’d have to drag their shopping across the bridge to the new station. No pleasing everyone really is there!

Yes Jupiter I have used it, but I cannot say that I have used the toilets (from other examples of CIE toilets I am sure they are a delight!). All I am saying is that people should take a closer look at the building. It has some attractive features such as the tiling on the outside. As I stated earlier, it does need some work. I am just trying to point out some of its positive aspects.

It doenst need work. It needs a bulldozer. Its a poorly laid out badly designed building that doesnt maximise the potential of the site in the 21st century and which has fallen into chronic disrepair. The institutional lethargy of the staff and management there is something which is also protected by the continued use of this outdated atrocity of a bus station.

Originally posted by sw101
“institutional lethargy”

SW101, I must say that I really like that expression. It is the best description I have ever heard of some of the workforce that are encountered in those types of institutions. Don’t get me wrong about the bus station. I realise that it is not maximising its space and that it does not function well anymore, it is just one of those buildings that catches my eye when I am in Cork. For some reason I think it looks quite cool!

Thanks

Phil

For Phils (and anyone else who isn’t aware ) benefit I’ll let you know that the toilets in the bus station are well known as a meeting point for gay men. (think George Michael being arrested)

For this reason alone (and there are many others) the building needs to be completely redesigned and preferably moved.

Ok, i’m with you on it being unusual and somewhat eye-catching. if it was well maintained and tarted up like busaras (no, not you) it would be fine. But as it is its a waste, and throwing 4 million at it is a huge waste. Another few FF votes for berties continuing ride on the power wave methinks

I knew that. Avoid like plague as the man said. The fucking timetable board has been moved now aswell and i cant find it. Good thing i know when all my busses go.

Gay men?! In the toilets?! Meeting?!

Well they should level the surrounding area just in case!

What other tiresome stereotypes motivate you to consider the refurbishing of buildings corkdood? I mean its well known that ‘junkies’ meet outside the customs house; so I propose we completely redesign or better yet move the customs house; I mean if junkies can meet there next ‘gay men’ will and we’ll have fully fledged meeting of marginalised weirdos on the steps of one of our national treasures.

I’ve also heard that moaney, second-city-issue-ridden Corkonians meet in Heuston station when they arrive in Dublin; so I propse we completely refurbish it or better yet move it to remove the ‘problem’.

Or is that just another cliched lie?

Idiot

Rjajc this conversation is clearly way over your head so I won’t attempt to explain it to you.

Originally published by eircom.net
€60m to fund new Cork School of Music premises
From:ireland.com
Thursday, 25th March, 2004

A new building for the Cork School Of Music has been approved for constructio, bringing an end to a long-running saga which has seen students scattered to 17 locations across the city.

The Minister for Education and Science, Mr Dempsey, today announced that just under €60 million will be provided for the building which will be constructed and operated as a Public Private Partnership (PPP).

The Minister had been accused using EU budgetary regulations as an excuse for not providing funding for the project after the school was forced to leave its premises three years ago.

But pressure began to build on the Minister after the regulations were relaxed last month and campaigners threatened to run candidates in the upcoming local elections.

Making the announcement today, Mr Dempsey said he recognised the hardship caused to the 3,500 students and more than 65 staff students and tutors who had been forced to use a variety of premises including a disused hotel.

“I am aware of the deep frustration and difficulties that the delay in progressing the project has caused the director, staff and students in the daily operation of the CSM since their move to the temporary accommodation.

“The government was always committed to this important project but were faced with real difficulties, both national and European, in clearing the project and these have now been fully resolved,” Mr Dempsey said.

However, the school is not due for completion until late 2006 and will not be operational in time for Cork celebrating its status as European city of culture next year.

The project will be the first purpose-built school of music in the State and will be constructed and operated by Jarvis Projects on a 25-year lease on the Cork Institute of Technology (CIT) campus.

CIT director Mr Pat Kelleher said the announcement was “a wonderful moment in history”.

A grand building site for the European City of Culture’s year in the spotlight.

True enough – well we have so many tower cranes here already one more won’t make much difference.

tower cranes are good though. it means that at least it’s developing. i must say i like cork. i found the whole driving experience down there quite strange but still. same here. lets hope that as city of culture it gets to do some nice public buildings like that music one.

its finally good to see people taking an interest in the built environment outside the pale, however looking through not only this forum, but others one gets a very negative attitude. while we need to be subjective about what is being built in our country, we also need to praise the work which merits it

a comment was made about the opera house is cork, which is a result of the era it was built, not trying to defend the design if you can call a rectangular brick box a design, but this building was built in hard economic times on a shoestring budget, it s recent face lift and that of emmet plc has made the area less drab and with johhson and perrott moving to a new 4 million euro showroom in o callaghans mahon point, it leaves a valuable space for what we hope will be an exciting development in the heart of the city.

the new murray o laoire bulding in ucc and the new school of music on the quays should also improve the citys image. a new apartment block on sawmill street across from st johns college , designed by jack coughlan architects (i think) is also a welcome addition to the city , situtated alongside the south terrace apartment complex , it looks like things have changed for the better

anyway sorry for rambling on , just all this negative stuff is a bit much , lets hope one of the cranes from the extension to the south mall falls mysteriosly and takes the dreadful eicom building with it , yours prc 🙂

cork is a great city but like a lot of the country has too many old relics from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s. bring on the new city hall refurb and the school of music. if it ever dawns on someone a new development at kent station with bus/rail services and access onto the quays would a great move. if the middleton line is ever reopened, it may someday even continue on to youghal and waterford . a new south-east coast line from cork to belfast via dublin i think however is a bridge way way too far…..
by the way is mahon point actually going ahead and what about the sewage and water works in the city. surely those works must be nearly finished and finally what stage is the ballincollig by-pass at!!?!!

I recently had northern European visitiors visit Cork.
They were much struck by the prevalence of dereliction, next to development, in the main streets. Likewise the 60’s and 70’s tat was much noticed. While I would regard downtown Cork as more interesting than downtown Dublin, if a little rough around the edges, they did not have this view at all.

They could not believe the incomprehensible down town traffic system, which is very poorly signed as usual in Ireland, and when I told them how long the Patrick Street road works had been continuing they thought I was telling lies.

They also found prices very very expensive by the way, so will not be back for the City of Culchies in 2005.

Mahon Point is well advanced and will open next year with retailers like Debenhams B&Q and HMV all confirmed as tenants.

After 5 years of disruption the sewage scheme is almost complete with the treatment plant working at 75% capacity at present making Cork harbour a healthier place. The Patrick street rejuvenation is also going well – should be completed by July. Works are also ongoing on Oliver Plunkett Street. I assume they will be finished by the end of the year.
Meanwhile the new lights and bus stops on patrick street have already been vandalised and defaced with socialist workers party posters. Some things never change.
Finally the Ballincollig bypass is well advanced and should open by the autumn.

So its not all doom and gloom by the Lee.

Hooray Cork! Finally pulled it’s socks up…

How exactly does my comment display that a perfectly comprehensive and accessible discussion about architectural developments and their respective social and aesthetic merits is ‘clearly way over [my] head’ Corkdood?

Do you think that my straying from the major thread topic shows this? Or is it just because you weren’t bothered giving any time to my (admittedly acerbic) comment and so flung me an adolescent ‘won’t attempt to explain it to you’ ?
Always a thought provoking and truly mature response.

What exactly won’t you attempt to explain? Because I really don’t feel a single comment in this thread is in anyway ‘above’ anyones ‘head’.

I regularly visit Cork, and so took an interest in this thread.

Lets be honest now; your comment was a way of quickly brushing off my point whilst maintaining a sense of superiority for yourself by implying that I simply don’t ‘get’ this ‘exclusive’ conversation.

Pah!

Uh-oh

Rjajc,

This discussion has moved on in the 5 days since you last posted so perhaps you should do the same.
Your comment was irrelevant and childish so I felt it didn’t warrant a response.
I still feel that way.

Relax a little lads. I really don’t think that Rjajcs original comments were at all childish. Although he said them in a slightly sarcastic way, I actually think he made a good point. Some times things are done in the built environment to erase a ‘problem’. The belief in the concept that we can change the way people act by good architecture is somewhat problematic as in most cases it just serves to hide reality even further.

Thanks

Phil

His original comments were very apt – junkies, custom house etc … but… “I’ve also heard that moaney, second-city-issue-ridden Corkonians meet in Heuston station when they arrive in Dublin; so I propse we completely refurbish it or better yet move it to remove the ‘problem’ “

Ouch the poor Corkonians! Maybe the chip is infact on the other shoulder?!?

d_d, I thought he was only messing with that final comment. I did not take him seriously. However, maybe he was!?

Yep, I was just messing with the last comment; being overly flippant to prove a point.

Casual usage of social stereotypes infuriates me; particularly when used as a sole justification to pursue a course of action such as refurbishing/reconstructing a public space. If this is inherently ‘childish’ then so be it.

I also don’t believe it is ‘irrelevant’ to challenge them in any circumstance Corkdood; on the contrary, it is wholly relevant.

Anyway, no hard feelings, just needed to get it off my chest.

whatever happened to the the site oppossite the Bodega on the Coal Quay, planning for a hotel was refused there a few years ago? Any developments since? Knowing Cork probably not…………..

anto, the city council succeeded in persuading the developers behind the hotel application to re-submit and change course completely. An application went in before christmas for retail street connecting cormarket to paul st and approx. 80 apartments (no car parking)

sounds good. Things do seem to be happening in Cork alright. I remember living there 96-99 and not much seemed to be happening. Think that Celtic Kitten was a bit late arriving to Cork. Good to see the retail being expanded in the city centre. When Mahon point opens it might suck alot of punters away from the city centre.

You could be right about Mahon point. Although on the other side of town in Blackpool they opened a large shopping centre three years ago which is always busy. That must have hit the city centre too.
Another major development in the city is that Examiner Publications have put their offices up for sale. Their offices take up a huge chunk of the city centre from Academy Street up to the savoy. They also have paper stores on half moon street. Johnson and Perrot on Emmet Place are also set to move opening up almost an entire block of retail space a stones throw from Patrick Street. I bet the Briitish retailers will be fighting for that one!

Congrats to the city manager – forced an attitude change in landlords and massive amounts of retails space has been (will be) released coming on stream in the next few years. Too many of Cork’s inner city “prime” retails units are too small for suitable modern shops (think smaller units of grafton st). My only problem is that Owen O’Callaghan seems to have his fingers in almost all of the developments. The J+P building, the formers Guys site opposite the Bodega, (possibly) the Examiner site – AND Mahon Point… while he has proved his retail pedigree and ability to draw big names (check out lineup in Liffey Valley and Mahon Point) will he be happy to cannibalise one developments draw to suit another. Me thinks not.

Hey lads! How’s it going? The Guy & Co site on Cornmarket Street is actually owned by the O’Donoghue/Ring families, they own the Munster Joinery in Ballydesmond near Mallow and a string of hotels in Killarney including the lovely Killarney Plaza. Money is no object! They applied for PP for 80 apartments and 7 retail units pretty much along the same design as the original hotel they’d planned 3 years ago. It’s a shame the hotel didn’t get the green-light – it was aesthetically beautiful and would be a far greater asset than more apartments to Cork.

Also, Owen O’Callaghan has a deal with J+P with relation to their Emmet Place premises – they have a no-talks-with-the-press deal. But Owen O’C has in the meantime bought the site along the side-street adjacent to the Examiner premises on which the gay bar Taboo was situated at the former Vodafone store next to GQ on St. Patrick’s Street – so it’s not too hard to guess what he’s up to as he is one of the 3 tenders being reviewed by Thomas Crosbie Holdings for the Examiner site on Academy Street. There’s also a rumour Barters Travel Agency, the pharmacy and pub next to it on Paddy’s Street have entered deals with him to sell-up or relocated, free up a huge development quarter on Cork’s main shopping thoroughfare.

Oh great… Merchants Qy MK2.

So having inflicted a red brick carbuncle along an ENTIRE quay side – he’s now moving to infiltrate both Emmet Place and Patrick St.

On the plus side – Cork City is in need of investment and this activity HAS to be a benefit.

Originally posted by lexington
Hey lads! How’s it going? The Guy & Co site on Cornmarket Street is actually owned by the O’Donoghue/Ring families, they own the Munster Joinery in Ballydesmond near Mallow and a string of hotels in Killarney including the lovely Killarney Plaza. Money is no object! They applied for PP for 80 apartments and 7 retail units pretty much along the same design as the original hotel they’d planned 3 years ago. It’s a shame the hotel didn’t get the green-light – it was aesthetically beautiful and would be a far greater asset than more apartments to Cork.

So why didn’t it get permission?

Corporation Housing residents behind the Guy site objected to the scale of the project (at 6-storeys) and they were helped out by – who else? – An Taisce. The Bodega bar also objected. But the street is now worse off because of petty-short sightedness. 80 apartments has become the revised solution. Ugh! The hotel would have been SO much better. And of the Corp Housing residents? There is only one permanent resident remaining. Typical!

Originally posted by lexington
And of the Corp Housing residents? There is only one permanent resident remaining. Typical!

Have they been booted out so that the Corporation can make more money off the land?

I don’t think so. A lot of the residents were OAPs – and they’d been there since the red-brick houses were built in the late 1950s/early 60s. As far as I know and don’t quote me on this, but a lot of the residents left either to move in with family or simply passed on. I understand the sentimental element to their objections but the developers had made generous incentives to the residents ( one of the residents themselves told me this, but refused to tell me what exactly it was) in order to compensate for construction disruption – but even those objections may have passed if it wasn’t for good ole An Taisce jumping on the bandwagon. I swear, I understand the relevance of An Taisce, but it seems they have nothing better to do with their excessive time than hold back the progress of our cities. Shouldn’t city planners worry about the appropriate development of our cities and not An Taisce? Let them raise appropriate arguments with relation to Protected Structures and leave it with City Planners to decide thereafter, not go running to An Bord Pleanale everytime a new development is proposed.

thank god that hotel proposal was rejected, it was TERRIBLE. it was something along the lines of a red-brick confusion of mock georgian and other bits thrown in, cheap, poorly designed. i saw the model in city council’s office a few years back and it was really poor and would have been a disrace if it were permitted. also, the site is more suitable for retail and residential, there are far better sites for quality hotels in the city. as far as i knew residents in the ‘old labourers dwellings’ as well as bodega people objected purely on the basis of loss of amenity i.e. light. in general, i think an taisce, and other residents are entitled to object, and by the way, it had significant local support from street traders etc. in the end, i believe cornmarket street has been ‘saved’ in this regard, and hopefully, the current application, due fairly soon, will represent a more attractive and interesting addition to the streetscape.

Well the problem is, the Bodega predominantly operates at night – as it is a late night bar – so where is their problem with light? Their restaurant hadn’t come into operation at the time of objection. And also, the residents of the Corp Housing predominantly objected on the grounds that they would be adversely affected during construction at that the development would heed further large scale developments. The problem here is that, the residents were given binding assurances from Rockfell Investments and City Council that any disruption (ie. temp loss of water) would be rectified by alternative supply immediately and construction would be restricted to suitable hours in consultation with residents. On top of generous compensation agreements. Now that permanent residency of the area is significantly reduced it seems that the residents lost out in the long run. Cornmarket lost because instead of a much needed city centre hotel with able conference facilities AND adjoing retail mall, they are now faced with more overpriced apartments (80 in toll) that most normal people just can’t afford. The addition of 7 only retail units was thrown in by Rockfell to appear more agreeable to the City Council’s development strategy for the area which had earmarked the site for Higher-Order retail development. Instead, they are now getting a half-assed novelty attachment to facilitate the real monster, apartments. The building itself is an almost identical replica of the original hotel design. So all in all, I strongly disagree with you that the new development (based on residential purposes) is better. Its worse. There is now no hotel, no conference facilities, no parking and no retail centre. I am aware most traders (Con Dennehy notably) supported the original project but are now more weary of this new development.

In addition, An Taisce has the primary purpose with relatin to planning, to raise awareness of the potential loss of what THEY deem architecturally significant buildings of a historic nature. Here’s my problem: John Mannix, whose Mannix and Culhane shop on 40-42 Washington Street, has proposed the development of a much needed over basement, office, parking, retail and apartment development measuring 6-storeys (similar to th height of the rest of Washington Street). Anyone who knows the shop knows that it is only a ground floor premises (completely out of sync with the rest of the street), [REMOVED IN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF INAPPROPRIATE INFORMATION – MY MOST SINCERE APOLOGISES]. However An Taisce have objected, why? Because, the development would adversely affect the present structure (which does NOT exist, it collapsed and is now a horrid ground floor make-shift structure), because it is unsuited to the district (the building by Conveney & Assoc. has been designed in keeping with the red-brick style buildings of Washington Street) and because in is of inappropriate height overshadowing other significant buildings in the area (the building is of a similar height to its previous form and of surrounding structures). Tell me, is this fair? Free speech yes, but hindering progress. Cork has been riddled with more development stallments due to An Taisce, than almost any other Irish city. (that is a quote from Cork Business April 2004)

Originally posted by lexington
In addition, An Taisce has the primary purpose with relatin to planning, to raise awareness of the potential loss of what THEY deem architecturally significant buildings of a historic nature.

An Taisce do not compile the list of protected structures this is the function of the Councils, however An Taisce has been known to draw the proposed elimination of protected structures to the attention of who ACTUALLY make the decisions on planning.

Originally posted by lexington
Here’s my problem: John Mannix, whose Mannix and Culhane shop on 40-42 Washington Street, has proposed the development of a much needed over basement, office, parking, retail and apartment development measuring 6-storeys
(similar to th height of the rest of Washington Street).

Office vacancy rates are 15% and there are massive developments in retail going up on Lee side, that argument is a crock

Originally posted by lexington
over basement, office, parking, retail and apartment development measuring 6-storeys
(similar to th height of the rest of Washington Street).

How many six storey modern spec buildings currently exist at this location?

Originally posted by lexington
Anyone who knows the shop knows that it is only a ground floor premises (completely out of sync with the rest of the street), this is because a few years back, the poorly maintained structure of the original 5 storey Mannix and Culhane building collapsed after intense bad weather killing a young Cork girl and paralysing her boyfriend.

The Fenian St argument resurfaces yet again, the owners of that building should be facing corporate homicide charges, it simply isn’t acceptable to allow buildings deteriorate into a condition where they fall into the street.

Originally posted by lexington
In an attempt to replace it with decent building, John Mannix has issued this new development proposal. However An Taisce have objected, why? Because, the development would adversely affect the present structure (which does NOT exist, it collapsed and is now a horrid ground floor make-shift structure), because it is unsuited to the district

The owners had the option to reconstitute the existing building line within two years of the ‘Collapse’ without requiring planning permission.

Originally posted by lexington
(the building by Conveney & Assoc. has been designed in keeping with the red-brick style buildings of Washington Street) and because in is of inappropriate height overshadowing other significant buildings in the area (the building is of a similar height to its previous form and of surrounding structures).

The design obviously didn’t come off as anticipated, inappropriate height and over shadowing are valid arguments if they exist, make no mistake if the claims are bull An Bord Pleannala will dismiss them.

Originally posted by lexington
Tell me, is this fair? Free speech yes, but hindering progress. Cork has been riddled with more development stallments due to An Taisce, than almost any other Irish city. (that is a quote from Cork Business April 2004)

Going by Liffey Valley Cork developers have about as much vision as Ben Dunne that is why developments have been red carded, if architectural standards rose to say Shay Cleary’s level you might get more quality buildings,

Who are Cork Business?

lexington,

i disagree that a residential/retail mix is less attractive than a hotel – , the proposal, as far as i know, does not include car parking facilities, which is pretty desirable in this central location. my point was that there are far better central locations than cornmaket street for a large scale hotel development with conference centre etc., in terms of accessibility etc. In addition, i dont think that the planners, in this case, can have regard to whether the apartments are overpriced or not, they will sell for what people are willing to pay for them surely. by the way, i have not seen the proposal so i have no idea about design issues and whether the scheme has progressed from the original, but from what you are saying i am not too optimistic. also, the bodega operates from 12.00 and does significant trading during daytime so i think thay would have had genuine concerns.

in relation to what you have said about the mannix proposal, i completely agree, and in addition, as a prominent corner site, one would think that there is a need for a structure with a bit of height at that location.

Just to reply to Dispora,

Office vacancies in Dublin and Nationally are at 15% – the take up rate in Cork since 2002 has bucked this trend, with take-up in developments such as No.5 Lapps Quay, 21 Lavitts Quay and Howard Holdings 100Million Euro City Quarter project selling out within only a few months after their market launch. Generally in the vacancy rate in Cork, according to the Sunday Business Post property section only 4 weeks ago, was below 8% at a citywide level and that demand for new, high-quality open plan offices in the city centre was still in demand. But also the John Mannix project consists of other elements besides offices.

The average building height along Washington Street is 5.23 storeys.

The owners of the collapsed building were brought to court – the full details of which I am unclear of – but I do know new building quality requirements were introduced as a result of the tragedy by the then Cork Corporation.

The design in my opinion of John Mannix’s project aren’t wildly imaginative but befitting to the area.

There is, in the immediate vicinity of the proposed development on Washington Street, is only one new, 6-storey office development (right across the street actually).

The location of the Mannix project is one in much need of development. Anyone familiar with the location will testify to this. Especially at such a prominent site.

And although I agree Liffey Valley is externally rancid, Cork developers have become, at least in their own city, become increasingly aware of the pressure being enforced on them to come up with projects of a far greater architectural standard – advocated strongly by City Manager Joe Gavin, and influential media outlets such as the Evening Echo – 21 Lavitts Quay, John Hornibrook’s Camden Quay project, Frinailla’s Grand Parade Plaza, O’Flynn Construction’s forthcoming No. 6 Lapp’s Quay – and Paul Kenny’s revised South Main Street project – all reflect this.

An Taisce do not compile the list of protected structures this is the function of the Councils, however An Taisce has been known to draw the proposed elimination of protected structures to the attention of who ACTUALLY make the decisions on planning.

those who actually make the decision on planning in relation to protected structures are well aware as to their protected status…they do however have the oppurtunity to allow development or replacement of these structures where appropriate

Office vacancy rates are 15% and there are massive developments in retail going up on Lee side, that argument is a crock

15% vacancy(even though it’s not accurate) can never be a deciding factor in refusing permission for office development. modern attractive offices will attract 100% occupany and drag up the percentages in a general area. filling up a few more thousand square metres of rented floor space is much more achievable than ramming businesses into the vacant 15%, which is invariably the dregs of the available space.

How many six storey modern spec buildings currently exist at this location?

few…and it’s a poor reflection on the development plan and planning policies in the area that this is so. i assure you it’s not for the want of trying on the part of the developers/architects concerned

Going by Liffey Valley Cork developers have about as much vision as Ben Dunne that is why developments have been red carded, if architectural standards rose to say Shay Cleary’s level you might get more quality buildings,

“Cork developers” is such an idiotic generalisation that this comment deserves less than my derision.

once again you’ve shown yourself to be a high-lighter of patently obvious and previously-discussed problems diaspora…one day i’m sure you’ll come through with the solution…but probably not in my lifetime

Saw Corks skyscraper aka the seat of bureaucracy the other night on the news….looming in the background as the local FF candidate hung on for his life as he swung outta last years English Grand National Winner. …..jaypers, when is it ever gonna get that much needed makeover…..what a horrible building!

the much needed makeover is well under way, much of the building is now unoccupied with departments moving to different locations while a refit takes place, planning authority have gone to model farm road etc.

---

the follow is from cork co co website

An invited competition organised by the Royal Institute of Architects of Ireland and the Management Team at Cork County Council was held in September 1999 for the general refurbishment of the County Hall along with the provision of additional office accommodation. There were five architectural practices in the competition which was won by Shay Cleary Architects, Dublin.
The winning scheme provides an innovative solution to the facade of the tower by introducing a skin of glass louvres which respond to differing climatic conditions and allow the tower to provide a high quality naturally ventilated working environment for the first time. It is further intended to fit out the existing building to present day office standards.

A six storey extension will provide additional office space while a new concourse/foyer joins these two elements together and houses a new Council Chamber and elected members accommodation.

A new multi-level carpark building will be constructed on the south western portion of the site, a part which is presently occupied by the temporary library building.

A general rearrangement of the present on-site parking along with tree planting is also envisaged.

The scheme was presented to the Council on 28th July, 2000 and at that meeting received the necessary approval to proceed with further design development with a view to lodging a full planning submission to Cork City Council.

When complete, the finished project will provide high quality office accommodation for up to 600 people.

Don’t know if you heard the news, but a report in the Irish Examiner today by Tommy Barker, described the proposed 80 Million Euro Water Street Dockland project destined for Cork. The project is being launched today with planning permission being sought from this week on with Cork City Council. The project is being developed by Werdna Ltd owned by the Limerick based McMahon Family who own a large Building Supplies Group. Murray O’Laoire are the firm behind the design, Sean Kearns being principal architect.

The development will consist of 400 residential units between 3 blocks, the centre of which is a tower over 19-storeys high, taller than Cork County Hall. The tower is proposed to provide a landark gateway into the city along the quays. The development also consists of an IT Centre, Restaurants, Creche, Cafes, Boardwalk, Private Dock Facility and recreational area.

The designs are in the Irish Examiner today (26th May 2004). Undoubtedly there are going to be objections, it is Cork after all and Cork fears height, but if people have a bit of foresight, the project may get the go ahead, considering EIS and sustainability. It’s a nicely designed facility, but nothing we haven’t seen before. But it would be a striking addition to the Cork Docklands Development.

Originally posted by sw101

those who actually make the decision on planning in relation to protected structures are well aware as to their protected status…they do however have the oppurtunity to allow development or replacement of these structures where appropriate

No question there on appropriate being the opperative word, observation from all quarters is required.

Originally posted by sw101
15% vacancy(even though it’s not accurate) can never be a deciding factor in refusing permission for office development. modern attractive offices will attract 100% occupany and drag up the percentages in a general area. filling up a few more thousand square metres of rented floor space is much more achievable than ramming businesses into the vacant 15%, which is invariably the dregs of the available space.

The point was made that offices were in under supply, the market is above equilibrium at present there fore that argument doesn’t exist. The opposite is also correct good planning and appropriate design is the decider in architecture and planning not market demand.

Originally posted by sw101
few…and it’s0 a poor reflection on the development plan and planning policies in the area that this is so. i assure you it’s not for the want of trying on the part of the developers/architects concerned

I quite like that area of Cork it has its own identity. I am sure that improvements are possible, but how many developers are willing to bankroll high quality architectural projects?

Originally posted by sw101
“Cork developers” is such an idiotic generalisation that this comment deserves less than my derision.

once again you’ve shown yourself to be a high-lighter of patently obvious and previously-discussed problems diaspora…one day i’m sure you’ll come through with the solution…but probably not in my lifetime

You are right it is a hugely tiring argument new and shiny is beautiful and heritage is boring, and An Taisce killed the Celtic Tiger from the Ivory Towers (connected by rope bridge) in Christchurch and Dublin 4.

There is no solution to planning simply an ongoing process of analysis and trade offs. Architectural standards are rising because any old crap won’t clear the planners like it once did.

[/B][/QUOTE]

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1188339&issue_id=10920

That’s the link with pictures and the story on the new proposed Water Street development in Cork. Not very inspired but exciting nonetheless. And that 19-storey centre-piece building will provide a striking entrance to the city.

Exciting, definately. I wish I could see a larger photo so we could see more detail, but that’ll come with time hopefully. I hope it gets permission.

Do you understand the word “exciting”? 😉

It looks exactly the same as Spencer Dock. Is Murray O’Laoire turning into Scott Tallon & Walker?

Originally posted by Paul Clerkin
Do you understand the word “exciting”? 😉

🙂 Haha, well it is exciting. I mean Cork may get another highrise. Thats something exciting.

Where is Stira for this one?

i’m hoping that was the dublin office of mola that came up with the “master” plan. cake anyone? yick…

if they go ahead with producing such repetitive tat of the type found all over dublins river banks i might just have to leave

Yeah I know it’s very Spencer Dock-ish, but when you consider the location along the Cork Docklands, it would, in prespective look very well along the quays considering the other proposals for the Docklands – if they come to fruition.

Some other projects for the Docklands I’ve been lucky enough to get access to, are genuinely exciting – architecturally and otherwise. One project, when it is, if it is, formally announced by its developer is going to have people talking big time. It’s of a similar height to the Water Street project by Werdna Ltd.

MOLA have produced some nice work, like the new front elevation of the Cork Opera House – but it does seem to have the odd architectural sigh (ie. UCC Biosciences Building) and doesn’t the new Cork School of Music on Union Quay (also by MOLA) seem to resemble the Gate Multiplex on Bachelors Quay (designed by Derek “Snooze” Tynan, developed by Eymet)?

I think this, Water Street, is a good MOLA and Werdna project though, I really hope it gets through the Planning Process positively.

And on the subject of Scott Tallon & Walker, how do they keep getting work???

(Although, I do have to say, their design for the 100million euro City Quarter by Howard Holdings on Lapps Quay – is turning out to be far more aesthetically pleasing in real-life than its design drawings. Credit where credit is due. )

i thought it was MOLA that did the gate no? as far as i know they did the new facade anywho…might be wrong

No – it was Derek Tynan. See his website http://www.dtarch.com

I’m sorry but is it just me, or doesn’t Derek Tynan seem to aim for architectural beauty too often. In Cork, The Gate and the new Victoria Hall Student Complex at Victoria Cross (developed by Paul Montgomery and Edmund Kenneally) are proofs of this.

Agreed that the Gate Cineplex isn’t great….
http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/cork/cork/gate_cineplex_lge.html

Some interesting pics of current Cork developments incl. 21 Lavitts Quay (the O’Callaghan Properties office development), No.5 and No.6 Lapps Quay (office development by O’Flynn Construction)

More soon!

Sorry forgot 21 Lavitts Quay pic, here it is!

http://www.murrayolaoire.com

Check out articles on Water Street development.

And any opinions on posted pictures above?

Well it seems my earlier reports have borne fruit and Owen O’Callaghan has indeed been the successful bidder for the Irish Examiner’s Academy Street premises. Along with the Johnson and Perrot premises on Emmet Place, most of Faulkers Lane, and some of Bowling Green Street, O’Callaghan Properties now own 90% of this 1.5 acre block.

Thomas Crosbie Holdings, owners of the Irish Examiner, Sunday Business Post, Evening Echo and 14 other titles – bagged 30 million euros for the sale and – the deal clincher – a 3.5 acre site at O’Callaghan’s Mahon Point complex in the suburbs alongside the South Ring Motorway.

The 3.5 acre site will be leased to Webprint Concepts, a start-up printing company to which the Thomas Crosbie Holdings will outsource its printing.

It is the Irish Examiner’s intention to relocate its non-printing operations (ie. editorial etc) from its Academy Street premises in 2006 to a newly built office building on a site it owns on Lavitts Quay, right next to O’Callaghan’s new 21 Lavitts Quay office building.

O’Callaghan has proposed a new 6-storey retail and apartment development for the Academy Street/Emmet Place/Faulkner’s Lane area – with basement, ground, 1st, 2nd and 3rd floors dedicated to retail operations and 4th, 5th and 6th = apartments. (shudder!)

Other bids I hear from good sources had been made by Howard Holdings, a company owned by Treasury Holdings, Lagan Developments and a consortium involving Cumor Construction, McCarthy Developments (indirectly), Brian McCarthy Construction and possibly P. Elliot Construction.

O’Flynn Construction are focusing on their Ballincollig Town Centre Development and new retail/residential complex at Eglinton Street, Cork city centre.

Just when people thought things were gonna level off, in the past 3 weeks alone, major planning applications and development plans have been laid out for Cork – coming into effect or fruition over the next few months/years.

Some of these include the 500million euro Ballincollig Town Centre, the est. 60million euro Eglinton Street development, 12 million No.6 Lapps Quay (ALL O’Flynn Construction), 80 million docklands development at Water Street by Werdna (incl. 19-storey residential tower – designed by MOLA), new Howard Holdings Tech and Business Centre on Alfred Quay, 150million euro retail/apartment complex on Academy Street, New Cork School of Music (60million), 35million Rockfell Investments venture on Cornmarket Street and MANY MANY more to boot!

That’s not incl. the plans for the Docklands – for which a new 25million euro tilting bridge is proposed at Water Street to Kennedy Quay and a new 20-storey hotel, 3,000 seat convention centre and offices (rumoured to be aimed 2 large German banks) on Kennedy Quay.

What are your feelings on such? And please feel free to contribute any new but genuinely reliable information on such new developments.

sounds good for cork. bout time

I’m happy for Cork.

I did not know of this “plans for the Docklands – for which a new 25million euro tilting bridge is proposed at Water Street to Kennedy Quay and a new 20-storey hotel, 3,000 seat convention centre and offices (rumoured to be aimed 2 large German banks) on Kennedy Quay.”

Any pictures or additional information? Thanks mate.

Originally posted by lexington

And any opinions on posted pictures above?

lexington- thanks for posting those. Do you have details on the two projects?

Will try and get some pics of the Water Street Bridge for ya, its a development on behalf of Cork City Council.

The Hotel and Convention centre were proposed by an as yet undisclosed development group but there may be a spanner in the workers at the announcement of O’Callaghan Properties to develop their previously proposed convention centre at Mahon.

Originally posted by Irishtown

lexington- thanks for posting those. Do you have details on the two projects?

Yeah – 21 Lavitts Quay was designed by Patrick Cashman and Associates, and will house the new headquarters of O’Callaghan properties on the top floors. The remaining elements of the building include offices on floors 1, 2 and 3, ground floor reception and retail area plus restaurant. In addition there are 44 apartments and private multi-storey car park at the rear (access via Lavitts Quay). It is due for completion by end of the summer/early autumn. Looking at it from the quays, already it looks very impressive. It’s the only O’Callaghan property that I can say has a genuinely attractive and innovative design. More like these O’Callaghan!

No. 5 and No.6 Lapps Quay has been designed by Coughlan de Keyser Architects (Cork) and developed by O’Flynn Construction. No.5 was a renovation of the old (gruesome) Eircom Building. The entire office building has been sold in floors (1 -> 5) already. Construction on the striking second phase, No.6 is due to begin by the end of the summer and will be complete by Autumn 2005. It will make a fine addition to Lapps Quay (already undergoing a huge development in the form of the City Quarter project). No.6 will consist of further offices over 5 floors and sell and approx. 1.6 million euros each.

Further info on that conference centre, hotel Dockland proposal – the proposal is actually for Horgan’s Quay (adjacent to Water Street) and the developers are Manor Park Homes, CIE and Treasury Holdings.

Negotiations are still on-going but the plan will incl. a 5000-seat convention centre (not a 3,000 seat), towers between 20 to 25 storeys, a new commercial quarter and new homes. (this is quoted in today’s (3rd June 2004) Commercial Property section of the Irish Examiner)

Also, as reported in the Evening Echo today, the southern docks will be home to a new Sports Arena capable of hosting international events (incl. International Rugby matches), with tracks, swimming and other such facilities. This is part of the Cork Development Draft 2004 – 2009 so its nothing concrete at still up in the sky – interesting though.

Wow, Cork could be alot different in the coming years.

Work on the Cork Bus Station has fiiiiiiiiiiinally begun. Although the revised plans are more of a novelty refurbishment for Cork 2005, they’re still a helluva lot better than the derelict scrub that currently exists.

Also, after the closure of 2 nightclubs in the past 6 months in Cork – for apartment developments – City Properties has announced its plans for a new club over the Classic Bar on South Main Street, where part of the Queen’s Old Castle (now Virgin Megastore and Argos) used to exist. Planning permission has just been sought.

Also, Werdna Ltd. have officially applied for planning permission for their Water Street development (fingers crossed!).

Originally posted by lexington
Also, Werdna Ltd. have officially applied for planning permission for their Water Street development (fingers crossed!).

Oooh! So exciting. When shall a decision be reached?

Water st is a definite sign that all the “Cork is on the up” talk is finally coming to something. A bit of ambition killed noone either, and I’m glad the developers are trying to put this forward rather than resigning to the flat and safe densitites (IFSC cough).
That said I wish the design wasn’t so damn homogenous – so much river front (i.e. Corks strong point) wasted on the same block repeated five times. sigh. Other comment bothers me: 66m same as County Hall…. to reflect as a gateway from other side of city. Is 66m going to become Corks version of the Dublin 60m???

That said I was there for first time in ages during the long weekend and couldn’t believe the amount of activity going on down there. Go Cork!

Decision? Well when it gets planning permission and An Taisce have a child and the usual appeal wranglings happen and some awful watered down proposal gets through – some disaster of compromise, we’ll all be sorry that we even were aware of what could have been.

Interestingly enough under the development plan 2004-2009, all “major developments” must submit a “design statement” with the application. Hopefully this will spur developers/architects on to think a little harder about the overall design aswell as the finer and more subtle design elements of proposals.

The Decision Date for Water Street is due on the 25/07/2004 but God knows it’ll probably be later than that knowing our lightning fast planning authorities. I’m expecting a request for Further Info and if and hopefully it does get FULL (not watered down) planning permission, I’m sure An Taisce and probably a few residents will run screaming to An Bord Pleanala. UGH!

But ya never know, with John Hornibrook current development on Camden Quay, even though the Senior Planner and a few businesses nearby complained, Joe Gavin – the City Manager, stood in and pushed the project through – so miracles do happen!

Cool images d_d_dallas! Where’d ya get them? Looking at them, homogeneous or not, ya can’t help getting excited. Plus, if I can, I’m gonna try and get my hands on a few JPEGs of future docklands projects I’ve viewed (but still haven’t been formally announced – incl. Eglinton Street and Horgan’s Quay).

Cork is buzzing lately, it’s really encouraging to see.

Pictures would be fab if you could get them. If Horgan’s Qy ever gets a move on that is…

It’s exciting alright – compared to what’s there at present. However if two separate submissions are made by An T for that Mannix Culhane building on Washington St – imagine what this will attract.

The ones above are from Murray O’Laoire’s own site.

http://www.murrayolaoire.com

Yeah I saw the Planning Report, ugh – it’s so frustrating. The Mannix Culhane building is designed by Coveney & Assoc of Monkstown, Cork and has been designed in-line with the general style of the Washington Street area (with apparently a ‘modern twist’ – make of that what you will!) 4 submissions have already been made against the project – plus Further Info has been requested by Cork City Council. Fingers crossed!

Also, Howard Holdings have made further steps on the Business Centre proposals adjacent to City Hall, while Cork City Council have made notices for their planned new Civic Building across the street, south of Angelesea Street Garda Station.

O’Flynn Construction are expected to make an announcement regarding their Eglinton Street site within the next few weeks.

(Come on Water Street!!!)

In relation to the Water St. Development Proposal – I am wondering whether An Taisce will object or not, I have a feeling (and I could be very wrong) that An Taisce will not object, although I am sure that neighbouring residents probably will. However, I do not expect or sense any discernible ‘ourage’ nor should there be.

If An Taisce object, on what grounds would this objection be? Building Height ? – The Cork High Buildings Study identified this location as a candidate for high buildings, as did the Cork Docklands Development Strategy and the current Cork City Development Plan. It is a brownfield site on the waterfront, facing south over the city at a gateway location in terms of vehicular and maritime traffic. A high building is essential, appropriate and sustainable. If it were a four storey building, would An taisce object on the basis of it being too low, contrary to City planning Policy and govt guidelines on density and sustainable development?

In terms of design, it, to me, seems quite attractive, although i agree that it can appear monotonous. However, as is often the case in docklands projects, the initial scheme often acts as a catalyst and compromises can be made – eg dublin docklands, canary, bristol. I really hope that CCC give it support because it will kickstart the north docks and the city cannot afford to wait for CIE or Treasury to move on Horgan’s Quay.

I hope also that CCC do not take a number of floors off just to appease the inevitable gombeen local slopitician who is guaranteed to get involved and create pathetic references to Ballymun, the glen etc. Taking four or six floors off this will ruin the opportunity to set the tone for Corks new urban quarter, will institutionalise a conservative approach to design/height/architecture and would be irresponsible and, i believe, contrary to proper planning and sustainable development Cork should learn the lessons from the early approach to dublin docklands and see a project like this as a strategic opportunity to deliver positive developemtn for the entire city

Also, I do not think the site includes or adjoins a protected structure, will not compromise neighbouring dwellings sun/day light. If An Taisce object, on what grounds will this be? By the way if they do object on sound planning grounds (although i cannot anticipate these), leave them, they are entitled, lets have no abuse.

Originally posted by bunch
If it were a four storey building, would An taisce object on the basis of it being too low, contrary to City planning Policy and govt guidelines on density and sustainable development?

No but no developer would ever for apply for permission for less than is attainable.

Originally posted by bunch
I hope also that CCC do not take a number of floors off just to appease the inevitable gombeen local slopitician who is guaranteed to get involved and create pathetic references to Ballymun, the glen etc.

My first encounter with Royston Vessy Brady ( Brother of Fulton Brady) was at the Smithfield planning enquiry, his contribution was welcomed by no-one but himself.

Originally posted by bunch
Taking four or six floors off this will ruin the opportunity to set the tone for Corks new urban quarter, will institutionalise a conservative approach to

One positive development in recent times has been the way that decisions are now delivered. Before a developer who wanted an eight storey building would need to apply for 14 story building, the Council would offer 10 and ABP would give them 8.

The architects would design a 14 storey building which not only lost 6 floors but also all architectural quality in transition. Now you get a simple yes or no.

Cleary Doyle Building and Civil Engineering Contractors have won the bid for contract of Cork City Council’s 32million euro extension of City Hall. The new building is designed by ABK Architects.

Cleary Doyle are responsible for the 12million Euro new Cork VEC and 35million Altana Pharma plant in Cork also.

Also CDA Assoc announced that O’Flynn Construction would begin starting construction of No.6 Lapps Quay as of this week.

Anyone who’s followed my posts will know that I’m a strong advocate for the development of Cork city. I’m have strongly endorsed city projects such as Water Street, City Quarter, No.5 and No.6 Lapps and 21 Lavitt Quays, Paul Kenny’s South Main Street development, John Mannix’s Washington Street development and many more, both online and on the ground – however, I am deeply angered by the grant of permission to Grangefield Developments for the partial demolition of the Victoria-esque Arbutus Lodge Hotel in Montonotte, Cork and the construction of 2 apartment blocks ranging between 3, 5 and 6 storeys high.

I recognise many changes have been made by Grangefield in order to gain planning permission, but the project still remains grossly out of place, unsuited and downright ugly in what is predominantly a leafy, residential housing suburb overlooking the city centre from the northern slopes.

The project has little to no architectural merit (James Leahy & Assoc., Cork) and ruins what is an elegant former manor and hotel. The immediate access is poor and has traffic difficulties as it is. The immediate surrounding area is taken up by a pleasant leafy garden area and a number of unique one of houses overlooking the city. The construction of a 6 storey apartment block devastates resident privacy and brings to which has always traditionally been a nice owner-occupier housing area, the monstrosity of a development which will accomodate temporary residency in the majority – ruining the family centred quality of the area.

2 crimes are being commited here – the devastation of a classic architectural structure which has been adequately retained, and the imposition of an oversized apartment development in an area completely unsuited to such a project.

This is a further notch down for my believe in Cork’s planning authority. How is it that suited city centre projects such as Paul Kenny’s South Main Street office/retail/hotel project are refused (permission was only granted after appeal), and the partial demolition of a architecturally significant structure and erection of an apartment block in a leafy residential suburb gets the go ahead first round? It’s another example of an appalling planning system.

I am an advocate for such large scale development in Cork, but where it is right and suited. This sort of project should be forwarded in a city centre location such as the former Irish Internation Trading Co. premises between Angelsea Street and South City Link, or docklands, or city quay areas, not in a green suburban area.

This is a disheartening development, just when I thought they were copping themselves on.

I only hope Water Street, Mannix project, Eglinton Street, South Main Street and other such projects are given rightful permission. It will help redeem my faith in CCC, but it may be too late for the Arbutus. Hmmm.

More news on cool Cork projects at the thread entitled:

Cork – New Developments

No.5 and No.6 Lapps Quay

Picture of City Quarter development (with No.6 Lapps Quay to the west)

Another pic of City Quarter from the east.

21 Lavitts Quay

New Irish Examiner HQ on Lavitts Quay (21 Lavitts Quay will be immediately to the left [or west] of the building)

2 smaller pics of alternate Irish Examiner HQ view (incl. aspect to Cork Opera House)

It has been announced the the new Irish Examiner HQ site has been attained by an undisclosed bidder and that the building will be complete for early 2007.

Cork City 3 Malmo ( the Swedish Champs ) 1 . A great development over the weekend.

Badaboom!

Lexington, is the Examiner building shown above the pre or post hobbling by An Bord P? It’s looks a story smaller in the 21 lavitts qy picture…

Originally the building was designed at 7-storeys but I do know An BP in their report specified a ‘desirability’ to see a reduction of 1 floor to 6-storeys. However, as far as I know, the 21LQ pic incl’d the Irish Examiner building as a projection and comparison and incorporated an earlier design of the building than the one that then went for PP. So I’m not quite sure. If you look at the 21LQ pic, the design on the IE building is different to that of the O’Riordain Staehli pics.

I do know, however the revised IE design is now 6-storeys.

Any opinions on the other pics???

I’ll have more up soon.

Here are some other pictures of the Clarion/City Quarter developement I’ve found:

Water Street

http://www.murrayolaoire.com/urban/projects/waterstreet/models/380m_e.jpg

SWEET!

any details of horgan quay…

where’s eglinton street?

Those images all look very nice ……..good renderings too

Eglinton St is the side of the City Hall with the stacked portacabin-alike Main Garda Station.

Horgan’s Quay has had a myriad of plans associated with it over the years – all of which have been squashed due to certain Fine Gael TDs and the slowness of CIE to utilise it’s properties in a profit-maximizing and efficient manner.

However, the latest plans – which are driven be strong private backing and the phenomenal boom in the Cork city property development market – consist of a 5000 seat convention centre, up to 5000 residential units (which will probably be restricted due to the Cork City Development Plan 2004-2009 specificity with relation to Horgan’s Quay as a commercial zone), a new office, IT and associated commercial district backed by Manor Park Homes, Treasury Holdings and CIE (as well as a number of local provate investors). The total investment has been estimated by Cork City Council at a min. of 245million euro. No formal launch has been made as of yet – mostly due to CIE dragging its heels.

*UPDATES:*

O’Flynn Construction have announced the launch of No.6 Lapps Quay (see pic in prev. post) which has begun construction based on the huge demand associated with No.5 Lapps Quay. They are also behind the massive, announced retail and residential developed at former sorting office on Eglinton Street.

Corbett Brothers Development have begun construction on a major commerical and residential development at Copley Street.

Bride View Developments have sought planning for 193-apartments in a series of 5 storey blocks at Rochestown. (shudder!)

Cumnor Construction have applied for permission for a 7-storey apartment building at Sunnyvale on Sunday’s Well overlooking city centre.

Howard Holdings confirmed plans to begin construction on new 15 million euro Business/IT centre at Albert Quay.

Work begins on 60-million euro Cork School of Music on Union Quay in July.

And an unnamed investment group, whom I can’t as of yet reveal, have begun pre-planning for the purchase of the former Irish Distillers site on the North Mall (estimated to sell for 30-million for 14.4acres in city centre – rivalling a proposed bid by UCC) and development of a new low-rise, gated, pedestrian urban community with boardwalks, cafes, restaurants, theatres, helath centres, bars, clubs, duplexs, offices, shopping boulevard and college centres – est’d to be worth over 145 – 225 million euro. Please remember this is only a pre-planning proposal.

any word on whether or not kent station is to be worked on. always figured it would make sense to reopen middleton line on to youghal and given a billion connect waterford to cork and dublin. It would be nice to have an east coast high speed line to dublin and belfast!!!

*UPDATES*

As seen in the Planning Applications section of the Irish Examiner 24th June 2004 – UCC have just applied for Planning Permission for a 35-million euro extension of the Boole Library (originally built in 1983) of over 5979 sq m. Whoa! The extension is needed – as any UCC student at exam time will tell you.

The extension will be constructed on the southern elevation of the existing, huge Boole Library building and comprise of 5-storeys over basement. In addition, the existing Boole Library will be refurbished to meet the standards of the mammoth new extension.

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In reply to T.G. Scott – CIE have said that they will refurbish Cork’s Kent Station in-line with any development of Horgan’s Quay (see previous posts). The plan is the face the station out facing the quays and the new Cork Docklands Development, with dual-level departure and arrival points, extended platforms, new access rail-lines (w/ potential to allow a future link-up with the new Cork Metropolitan and Suburban Rail System [which has been greenlighted by Transport Minister Seamus Brennan – initially encompassing a new line to Midelton and new stations at Carrigtwohill, Dunkettle, Blarney and Blackpool]), extension and refurbishment of the existing rail terminal building and a multi-storey car-park in the current ground-level car-park off the Lower Glanmire Road. These plans can be viewed in basic form as part of the Cork Development Plan and CASP Strategies. Advanced designs can be obtained from CIE – at a cost!

thanks lexington.
any reason as to why cie are dragging their heels?
how soon would you expect an announcement on horgan’s quay to be made.
how close are o’flynns to announcing plans for eglinton street (this is the an post site right?)? The eglinton street site would be perfect for an event centre btw.

Are there any plans to develop river walkways in the city centre?
The Lee is very underutilised (for obvious reasons for now).
After so many years of watching Cork fall behind other Irish cities in terms of redevelopment, I must say I am extremely proud as an exiled Corkonian to see the city explode in this way. An announcement on transatlantic flights and these developments will see Cork emerge as a serious counter-pole to Dublin.

Now let’s hope the planners and developers emerge with a vision of a beautiful city.

HORGAN’S QUAY: ->

CIE remain very tight-lipped on the whole scheme – they’ve made a commitment but have failed to make a formal public announcement on plans. My own personal belief is that they are having problems securing designated finance – after all it is still a public company ~ and many such companies have difficulty committing finance for stragic purposes because the lack the vision for long-term revenue strategies. Redeveloping Horgan’s Quay along with private investors like Treasury Holdings presents a spectacular investment opportunity and would see CIE maximizing its assets with a view to strategic returns.

The Irish Examiner claims that Treasury and Manor Park are likely to make an announcement (pending successful proposals) ahead of CIE – effectively dragging the state company kicking and screaming into the project [for its own good I might add] – the annoncement is expected before year-end.

EGLINTON STREET: ->

The O’Flynn’s have erected a huge display banner on-site at Eglinton Street announcing the near announcement of a “Major Retail and Residential Complex Development”. The Irish Examiner and Irish Independent claim the O’Flynn’s have plans for a striking and modern high-rise development in the region of 60-million euros – however I’m not so sure of this from my personal inquiries with the company. A high-rise so close to City Hall is risky and the O’Flynn’s are aware of that. I am aware that they have 2 plans already designed and they are considering the most suitable. Either way, the site location and size mean the development is gonna be huge. A formal anouncement expected before end of July, early August. (It is expected Eglinton Street development will also cater for the parking needs – in undergound form – for the No.6 Lapps Quay office building currently under construction.

CORK CITY GENERALLY: ->

With the call by the Cork Business Association (CBA) today (28th July 2004) for a major events centre in Cork city. Plans for Sports Arena development (capable of hosting international sporting events – incl. rugby, soccer, athletics etc) along the docklands, and the development of quayside boardwalks (mostly by private investors as part of their individual projects – i.e. Howard Holdings = Lapps Quay, Werdna Ltd = Water Street, Victoria Hall Developments and UCC from Victoria Mills through UCC to Lancaster Quay – and the proposed Mardyke to North Mall boardwalk via Irish Distillers pre-planning development) Cork is gaining all the time.

The city really is on the move – and as the Chief Economist at DTZ Sherry Fitzgearld recently announced – for investors, Cork city represents the most exciting development opportunities (especially commercial) anywhere in Ireland right now. The city has a catchment of 500,000 people with 365,000 in it’s immediate metropolitan area. Unemployment and crime are at their lowest levels in decades and discretionary income is at its highest. After Dublin, Cork is the 2nd largest urban area and 2nd most affluent population. Big developers have caught on this ie. O’Callaghan Properties, whose total current development spend in Cork is almost 700-million euros (Mahon Point, Lavitts Quay, Classis Lake, Academy Street, Ballinlough etc), O’Flynn Construction = 675-million euro (Ballincollig Town Centre, Lapps Quay, Dunkettle, Eglinton Street etc), Howard Holdings = 260million euros (Lapps Quay, Albert Quay, Docklands, Estuary Court, Angelsea Street etc) and many more incl. Shipton Group (120m), Frinailla Developments (130m), Werdna (80m), Sheehan Family, Hornibrook and Co., Treasury Holdings, OSB, Jarvis, Hanranka Ltd., Corbett Bros etc.

Cork really is the place to invest right now and I only pray the planners don’t mess it up. And if things keep up (and they are projected to up to 2016), Cork really could become a major alternative to Dublin. It’s taken a long while, but as any economist or consumer will tell you, a little competition never hurt anyone. As market economies show, it can make you stronger. What’s good for Cork maybe good for Dublin and the rest of the country. Let’s just keep those fingers crossed!

The former An Post sorting site is designated specifically to accommodate a “tall building” under some of the various plans to the city/docklands. I presume the idea is to form a southern gateway approaching from Douglas/Bishopstown on the South Link. So O’Flynn’s plans probably suit the city planners.
Mind you – what constitutes “high-rise”… 9 stories???
It is a shame that site is not proceeding as originally planned – i.e. the new busaras. Any moves on the “camoflage canopy” for the existing eyesore?

Work has begun on the existing bus station at parnell place. I don’t know what the plans are though. The work so far seems concentrated on the area behind the bus station where the buses used to park. No idea what they’re doing with the building – probably just painting it!

Cork School of Music gets on a roll! (Construction starts July!)

see -> Cork – New Developments

CORK SCHOOL OF MUSIC

Lift cranes and demolition equipment over the old Cork School of Music heed the commencement of construction of the new Cork School of Music!

Primary construction is expected in mid-July.

CORK BUS STATION

Ridge Developments have begun construction of the refurbished Bus Station. The scaled back project will see complete terminal refurbishment, small extension to the rear and canvas canopies extend over quay-side bay area and smaller example to the rear.

“scaled back project” – at leats CIE are coherent in their approach to Cork!

I was down in UCC the other day and the new art gallery is nearing completion. It looks really good.

http://www.odonnell-tuomey.ie/webpage/ucc/ucc_cgi4.htm

Any possibility of Pairc Ui Caoimh being redeveloped and opened up to other sports in the years to come, perhaps minor internationals, Ireland/Italy rugby, that sort of thing?

Yeah, the Lewis Glucksman Gallery in UCC is pretty cool – the problem with it is that it is completely pointless and a huge waste of resources that could have be channelled into relevant projects like the planned IT Centre along the Western Road. Converting the Glucksman Gallery into more (and needed) lecture theatres would be a far better alternative.

*UPDATES*

A Planning Application, as seen in today’s (29th June 2004) Evening Echo, by Kilquane Ltd (the company owned by Howard Holdings to develop the City Quarter project on Lapps Quay) has been lodged with Cork City Council to see the addition of a 6th floor on the offices currently under construction.

The application for additional office space will see the office element of the City Quarter project equal the height of the adjoining Clarion Hotel and reflects a response to the demand for office space in the development. Scott Tallon Walker have said they will issue revised drawings of the project imminently – and as soon as they do, I’ll post them up so you can all see the new, bigger and taller office building.

So is the Clarion Hotel only 6 stories? I thought it was 8.

Or are they saying heightwise in metres and not stories? Because office floors are taller than hotel floors typically, so I guess they could be equal height and still be 8 and 6 floors.

Originally posted by bunch
In relation to the Water St. Development Proposal – I am wondering whether An Taisce will object or not, I have a feeling (and I could be very wrong) that An Taisce will not object, although I am sure that neighbouring residents probably will. However, I do not expect or sense any discernible ‘ourage’ nor should there be.

If An Taisce object, on what grounds would this objection be? Building Height ? – The Cork High Buildings Study identified this location as a candidate for high buildings, as did the Cork Docklands Development Strategy and the current Cork City Development Plan. It is a brownfield site on the waterfront, facing south over the city at a gateway location in terms of vehicular and maritime traffic. A high building is essential, appropriate and sustainable. If it were a four storey building, would An taisce object on the basis of it being too low, contrary to City planning Policy and govt guidelines on density and sustainable development?

In terms of design, it, to me, seems quite attractive, although i agree that it can appear monotonous. However, as is often the case in docklands projects, the initial scheme often acts as a catalyst and compromises can be made – eg dublin docklands, canary, bristol. I really hope that CCC give it support because it will kickstart the north docks and the city cannot afford to wait for CIE or Treasury to move on Horgan’s Quay.

I hope also that CCC do not take a number of floors off just to appease the inevitable gombeen local slopitician who is guaranteed to get involved and create pathetic references to Ballymun, the glen etc. Taking four or six floors off this will ruin the opportunity to set the tone for Corks new urban quarter, will institutionalise a conservative approach to design/height/architecture and would be irresponsible and, i believe, contrary to proper planning and sustainable development Cork should learn the lessons from the early approach to dublin docklands and see a project like this as a strategic opportunity to deliver positive developemtn for the entire city

Also, I do not think the site includes or adjoins a protected structure, will not compromise neighbouring dwellings sun/day light. If An Taisce object, on what grounds will this be? By the way if they do object on sound planning grounds (although i cannot anticipate these), leave them, they are entitled, lets have no abuse.

Well despite ALL that, An Taisce – the purveyors of evil, or as they seem to be better known, Campaigners for the Stone Age – have indeed objected to the Water Street development. Their submission was made on the final submissions day. They must have had itchy feet and been dying to mess up another project for Cork – well they finally gave into their temptation. But on what grounds? Conservation of a derelict site??? (Which is zoned for landmark development.) EVERY SINGLE major development proposed in Cork over the past 2 years has had an objection raised by An Taisce, if they had their way, mass unemployment and derelict sites would rule.

Thanks a lot guys, you serve no purpose other than to hold dreams back. You are a pointless and dispicable organisation and you should be ashamed of the tripe you do called work!

The office floors of the City Quarter development are higher than that of the hotel. Although the Clarion is 8-storeys, the “8th” floor is more of a novelty upper air than real floor. The 6th, additional office floor will thus equal the height of the Clarion.

Anyone who strolls down Lapps Quay way recently will tell you that the project is pretty awesome and looks very very well.

Objecting on the last day is a speciality of theirs… school of music anyone???

Originally posted by lexington
Thanks a lot guys, you serve no purpose other than to hold dreams back. You are a pointless and dispicable organisation and you should be ashamed of the tripe you do called work!

No Dougal you know there is a difference between dreams and reality.

Dreams

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Reality
Dreams

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Reality
Dreams

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Reality

Given with all the grace of Fr Jack on a bad day

All of this development sounds great.I was wondering about the possible development of a building that I find the biggest eyesore in the city,the old millhouse along Fr. Matthew Quay.I think anyone who passes by Irish multichannel and crosses over towards the South Mall cannot miss it.I saw a planning application outside and some clearance work but unfortunately no progression since then.
I think its a real shame especially with such a beautiful church so close by.

the redevelopment of the mill building on father mathew quay was about to commence until the applicant put in another application for a slightly modified design – i presume they encountered something unexpected and needed to deal with it

Well Diaspora, you’ll have to pardon that initial outburst, but they are my dreams.

thanks for the prompt reply bunch.Do you know if they are keeping the external facade of the building?Are there any drawings of the new development on the site?

Jacobs mill – I think there will be a vertical slice taken out up to the roof where the door is at the moment with glass put in – which will compensate for the tiny windows.

Where did the thread ‘Cork – New Developments’ go???

i merged it with this one as they seemed to be rehashing each other boy

I am so annoyed to hear An Taisce has thrown another spanner in de works for development in Cork City. Their objection to the the Water St. development is yet another delay in the creation of a vibrant sustainable new urban quarter in Cork City. I’m sick of living in a city full of run down reminants of its past. It needs to shake off the hangover caused by industrial decline and move foward as a modern European city with a built environment to reflect this!

So is Water Street officially dead?

No, it’s not dead thank God! The controversy is just about the fact that An Taisce have objected to the project on fecious grounds. Its just a spanner in the works that will delay the process – a spanner which the project really REALLY didn’t need or warrant.

I just pray that the Cork City Planners have more sense and vision than to let such objection skew the outcome of the planning application for Water Street. Fingers crossed! Not simply for the sake of the developers, but Cork city as a whole. This may not be the biggest development in Cork at the moment, but it is one of the most important.

Luckly the snail pace of developement which persists in the city centre is not occuring in other areas of the county. For example O’ Flynn’s town centre development in Ballincollig is progressing at a swift pace, or at least it appears to be. The first tower crane went up today on the site. Already the steel framed construction of the shopping centre is visible from main street. Also, after visiting the information office located on site and viewing the plan, I got an impression that what is being created in Ballincollig will serve to better Ballincollig by creating a modern town centre in an area which before I would regard as nothing more than a glorified patch of linear sprawl development. I hope it will be a success and if it is, perhaps it will serve as an good step forward for the development of the cork metropolitan area as a whole. We must face the fact that despite attempts by planners, which in an Irish and generally European context have been stringent, our cities are becoming decentred settlements with many centres. Then I ask why we are not paying more attention to the development of these centres as viable sustainable areas, which can compliment the city centre. Death to the semi and all things suburbia!

Yeah – I often wonder if the City Planners are fully aware that their stringent planning in the past has led to cities such as Cork and Dublin, to become increasingly decentred. Commercially, I know Dublin has tried to fight back – Jervis Street SC and the refurbished Roches Stores have certainly brought life back to Henry Street at all levels, incl. street traders. Grafton Street has always had the same role of play as Patrick Street in Cork, and always remained a strong player.

Intrestingly, it is clearly visible to see the increase in street activity of Patrick Street since its renewal. The whole city seems to have been given a fresh breath of life. Hopefully the oncoming Oliver Plunkett Street, Grand Parade and Cornmarket Street renewals will do the same. The two latter have HUGE commercial potential. With the advent of the colossal Mahon Point SC opening and the innovative Ballincollig Town Centre, the city is gonna have to pull its socks up again – I do think O’Callaghan Properties retail proposal on Academy Street was the planners big-gun for retention of the commercial core for Cork in light of these new threats – as well as Rockfell’s plan (though weak) for Cornmarket Street, Frinailla’s for Grand Parade. I only hope to God, O’Callaghan Properties don’t give us another Merchants Quay or Mahon Point on Academy Street – I’m seriously hoping 21 Lavitts Quay was an indication that the firm is becoming more design conscious.

Oh – and I’ve just got wind that a major development announcement for the city centre is expected to be made soon (a pre-planning announcement). I can’t give away the details yet – but I can leave you a few clues and let you figure it out yourself – basically Ward Anderson own a premises in the city centre, a premises zoned for 30,000 sq ft of higher order retail development – and they intend to vacate this premises for a new own within Mahon Point SC. A private investment company is assessing potentials on this site at the moment – and based on their decision, will make an announcement.

Can you give a few more clues… please??? Location (ball park).

Lexington – you seem to be well up on things at proposal stage – are there any plans for the dreaded Capitol Cinema? It is my fantasy to see that razed. Approaching the city centre from Washington St, that carbuncle is something I’d like to see removed.

d_d_dallas

i’d say you’ve already made a good guess on where lexington was referring to – capitol cinema grand parade by any chance?

Well Ward Anderson only have one city centre premises that could cater for 30,000 sq ft – and since you’ve mentioned it, I don’t have to tell you.

When Mahon Point SC opens next Feburary, Ward Anderson intend to transfer their operations from the Capitol to a new 11-screen multiplex at the SC, freeing up the Capitol on Grand Parade for retail space. (see City Manager Joe Gavin’s city report Nov 2003) And since I’ve already opened my yak, I may as well tell you the plan by the private investment firm will include a 6-storey over dual basement retail and leisure development w/ food-court, 20 – retail outlets, 3 late-bars and apparently 2 night-clubs – and depending on insurance, Cork’s 1st permanent ice-rink (OH YEAH!) at the upper basement level.

Complimentary plans by the same firm incl. the pedestrianisation of Grand Parade/Washington Street junction (to facilitate increased pedestrian activity/passing volume – as experienced by Patrick Street renewal – and to fall in-line with current CCC development designed by Beth Gali, promoting a saving in public expenditure) and a short 4-lane underground tunnel for traffic off Washington Street to Grand Parade South and vice-versa – thus allowing for an extension of the Western Elevation of the development and facilitation of a 194-space underground car-park and delivery bay at the lower basement level.

The estimated cost = 30-million euro. The design draws influence from that of a classic French Chateau – complimenting the nearby Heugenot Quarter, with a curved, sloping Mansard-style black-slate roof, two large stone colums extending 5-storeys to the ornate entrance facade (which makes reference the facade present on nearby Cornmarket Street for the Coal Quay Bar and Loft Carpet Store). A modern element is accomodated between the two front columns in the form of a curved, glass bay window extending 5-storeys also between the facade and roof.

But I stress, these plans (as with the plans for Irish Distillers) are ONLY at a pre-planning/feasibility study stage – meaning they could either be just ideas, or could be seriously altered, abandoned, or never even get through planning process – but fingers crossed.

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On a more active note, I took a trip out to Ballincollig Town Centre there yesterday and its really encouraging to see the pace of development there. Already a large number of houses are up, a brand-spanking new tower crane has been erected for the office element (as far as I know, this is O’Flynn Construction’s first such crane with 2 more planned, one for Eglinton Street and another for Lapps Quay No.6 I assume), and the Shopping Centre steel frame almost complete. The SC at BTC isn’t on the same scale as Mahon Point but will still be amongst Cork’s largest.

thanks for all the info lexington.

which proposal do you find the most exciting in terms of putting Cork on the map?

Subconscious… or just plain obvious?!?

Galvin’s report from November and the fact I knew the Mahon Point cinema was linked to the Capitol… join… the… dots…

Must pay more attention

Originally posted by mickeydocs
thanks for all the info lexington.

which proposal do you find the most exciting in terms of putting Cork on the map?

Hey mickey! I think there are a lot of exciting projects in Cork city at the moment – many of which rival and even surpass that of anything in Dublin, or Europe for that matter – it’s a nice change. But I do think, and I will stress this relentlessly, the project for Water Street represents probably the single most important proposal for Cork in many many years.

Anyone who knows me will tell you, I don’t have a great affliction for apartment developments, but Water Street is far more significant than just another apartment development – it not only represents a landmark project (the tallest building in Ireland – a title Cork has always held), not only does it represent the confidence investors have placed in the Cork city market, not only does it represent whether or not the city planners have the foresight they seem to have traditionally lack til that of recent years, but it represents the future for Cork city and the Cork Docklands. A refusal of permission will throw future investment (in the Cork Docklands), market confidence and further Docklands proposals into turmoil – this will offset the willigness of further projects, no indefinitely, but certain for a period of time. That’s not an exaggeration, trust me, I know – its a belief widely held throughout the Cork Business Community.

Sean Kearns, architect with MOLA for Water Street, has informed me that he is almost certain now that CCC will request further info. He says they are prepared for that and also says that he understands and accepts concerns expressed by Lower Glanmore Road residents will relation to the project – saying that the project can be adjusted just enough to accomodate them, but says the big fear is that An Taisce will bring the project to ABP on appeal. However, he also says that MOLA are prepared for such an unfair and unwarranted possibility.

-> that aside, some plans for the Docklands (if they go ahead) are very exciting eg. Treasury Holdings National Convention Centre on Horgan’s Quay.

Also exciting -> O’Flynn Construction’s Retail/Residential development on Eglinton Street. O’C Properties Conference Centre at Mahon Point, 21 Lavitts Quay (one of my favourites), City Quarter and Teschem (Howard Holdings) new office building for Albert’s Quay and nreaby IT/Business Centre. Also John Mannix’s development is brilliant for Washington Street.

Plus there are rumours that one of Cork’s major pharma giants w/ a plant at Cork Harbour, is looking into the possibility of constructing it’s European and Middle-Eastern HQ at a brand new, purpose built 90,000 sq ft office building in the Kennedy Quay region. However, I personally view this as unlikely, as most of these pharma companies have invested millions in office facilities at the current plant locations recently as it is, and have most other admin. work performed elsewhere. Nonetheless, it’s a nice idea.

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> and while we’re on the topic, the 1 new project that sparks zero excitement with me is the Cork City Hall Extension. The words ‘utterly’ and ‘dire’ spring to mind. Architects = ABK. If An Taisce want to object about something, let it be that, I’ll actually support them on the grounds of ‘defamation of an elegant, historical city building’. Ya know, for a council that has demanded such a high standard of design from new developments in the city, they could have led by example. For 32-million euro, they could get a lot more bang for their buck. If anyone has any pics of the extension, do post them, so everyone else can sigh.

I’d love to see the FAS building on Sullivan’s Quay demolished and a new landmark city library built on the site. Short of that, could the OPW paint the thing in time for the year of culture?

Had a free hand rendering of the Grand Parade/Washington Street junction retail development (on Capitol Cinema site) I under-handedly encountered in developers office and drew myself, but it is SO bad I have to delete it. Will endeavour to get a proper architect designed rendering or CGI if possible.

Otherwise, ignore this post!

Well Ward Anderson only have one city centre premises that could cater for 30,000 sq ft – and since you’ve mentioned it, I don’t have to tell you.

When Mahon Point SC opens next Feburary, Ward Anderson intend to transfer their operations from the Capitol to a new 11-screen multiplex at the SC, freeing up the Capitol on Grand Parade for retail space. (see City Manager Joe Gavin’s city report Nov 2003) And since I’ve already opened my yak, I may as well tell you the plan by the private investment firm will include a 6-storey over dual basement retail and leisure development w/ food-court, 20 – retail outlets, 3 late-bars and apparently 2 night-clubs – and depending on insurance, Cork’s 1st permanent ice-rink (OH YEAH!) at the upper basement level.

Complimentary plans by the same firm incl. the pedestrianisation of Grand Parade/Washington Street junction (to facilitate increased pedestrian activity/passing volume – as experienced by Patrick Street renewal – and to fall in-line with current CCC development designed by Beth Gali, promoting a saving in public expenditure) and a short 4-lane underground tunnel for traffic off Washington Street to Grand Parade South and vice-versa – thus allowing for an extension of the Western Elevation of the development and facilitation of a 194-space underground car-park and delivery bay at the lower basement level.

The estimated cost = 30-million euro. The design draws influence from that of a classic French Chateau – complimenting the nearby Heugenot Quarter, with a curved, sloping Mansard-style black-slate roof, two large stone colums extending 5-storeys to the ornate entrance facade (which makes reference the facade present on nearby Cornmarket Street for the Coal Quay Bar and Loft Carpet Store). A modern element is accomodated between the two front columns in the form of a curved, glass bay window extending 5-storeys also between the facade and roof.

But I stress, these plans (as with the plans for Irish Distillers) are ONLY at a pre-planning/feasibility study stage – meaning they could either be just ideas, or could be seriously altered, abandoned, or never even get through planning process – but fingers crossed.

_________________________________________________
On a more active note, I took a trip out to Ballincollig Town Centre there yesterday and its really encouraging to see the pace of development there. Already a large number of houses are up, a brand-spanking new tower crane has been erected for the office element (as far as I know, this is O’Flynn Construction’s first such crane with 2 more planned, one for Eglinton Street and another for Lapps Quay No.6 I assume), and the Shopping Centre steel frame almost complete. The SC at BTC isn’t on the same scale as Mahon Point but will still be amongst Cork’s largest.

*UPDATES*

A new Lidl discount foodstore for Churchfield, Cork has been refused planning permission on the grounds that it would be out of place in an area zone for Light Industrial Use – and also that it would affect the business of a nearby Centra.

….wait a second, whatever happened to competition??? Isn’t that what drives consumer quality and better pricing???

That’s like the MW Health-Board objecting to a McDonald’s Restaurant in Ennis because it would adversely affect children’s healthy eating. WTF??? Has the whole world gone mad???

-> Also, meeting An Taisce Corcaigh tomorrow. DENDENDUN!!!

Thanks as always for the insights Lexington.

Also exciting -> O’Flynn Construction’s Retail/Residential development on Eglinton Street.

— Don’t you think that this would also be a great site for an event centre.

there are rumours that one of Cork’s major pharma giants w/ a plant at Cork Harbour, is looking into the possibility of constructing it’s European and Middle-Eastern HQ at a brand new, purpose built 90,000 sq ft office building in the Kennedy Quay region.

— Haven’t Novartis had planning applications rejected – Johnson & Johnson have three separate sites in Ireland (Depuy, Alza & Janssen) and are looking at consolidation of their current activities, so I’m guessing it’s one of these.

while we’re on the topic, the 1 new project that sparks zero excitement with me is the Cork City Hall Extension. The words ‘utterly’ and ‘dire’ spring to mind. Architects = ABK.

— Do you have any images of this?

I saw images in the Indo last week. Considering it will be next to the Fire and Garda stations it would hardly be difficult to stand out as quality – and yet from the images…

I guess it might be one of those projects that MIGHT turn out better it the flesh. But for that price tag – I think something a bit better could have been rustled up.

The Patrick Street renewal was mentioned. The Beth Gaili designed refurbishment of Patrick Street is nice, but there are problems with some of the street furniture, particularly the rubbish bins. They lack the capacity of the older bins and are almost always overflowing with rubbish. They also appear to be porous, so that whenever it rains, a horrible sort of rubbish juice pours onto the pathway. They’ve only been in place for a few weeks but already the area around the bins is covered in a brown sticky residue. The corporation should consider replacing them, as they are completely inadequate.

Its strange that another planning application lodged by lidl has been refused. They also applied for permission for a development in Ballincollig West ( across from the L+N or Super Valu as its now called) Is this a concentrated effort to keep Lidl from gaining a strong foothold in the Cork area or as I believe a testement to the poor quality of design which Lidl employs for its stores.

Hopefully Local authorities are realising the impact these generic, utilitarian stores are having on towns throughout Ireland. Perhaps as a result Lidl will rethink their strategy and develop a higher quality mixed use development to serve as a sustainable neighbourhood centre. With such a strong name as an anchor in a scheme such as this I don’t see how such development would not yield a good investment return.
Aldi have lodged planning permisson for such a development on the former John A. Woods site in Ballincollig. Why can’t Lidl do the same elsewhere?

Yea I noticed that digusting sticky brown residue on the ground too. U can also see it on the square stones to sit on? I’m not a geologist but might it be coming from the granite used?

Looks like the musgrave chain are flexing their muscle.

No the residue is coming from the bins, take a look at the bins that have been there the longest, the ones closest to Patrick’s bridge. Wait till we go through a winter. I’m sure you remember the older bins; they were large capacity pebble dashed affairs and inside was a removable metal bin. Why not revert to that, and encase the metal bin with the type of granite used in the street renewal. The bins in use at the moment are completely inadequate and very poorly designed.

Well bins aside – the street looks incalcuably better. I actually feel proud strolling down the street in comparison to a few years ago. Grand Parade and Oliver Plunkett Street should follow suit.

*UPDATES*

-> The redevelopment of the notorious Blackpool flats by Murnane & O’Shea is taking on a remarkable shape alongside the Blackpool By-Pass, the development is striking in its scale (with 2 cranes [1 tower] on-site) and style. Across the road, construction of the new Glen Hall Luxury Apt Complex by John Paul Construction is at an advanced stage and already looks of a very high standard.

-> Coleman Bros. Developments have erected crane over their new duplex development on the Commons Road – the project has taken a chunk out of the hillside and the development is flying up fast.

-> Frank Sheehan’s office building between the Blackpool By-Pass and Assumption Road, designed by Jack Coughlan and Assoc. is taking up shape in an eye-catching form. 2 PJ Hegarty tower cranes gape over the circular shaped, red-brick office development.

-> Also, PJ Hegarty Construction have erected another crane over the new 100m-euro Blackpool Retail Park and Multiplex development adjacent to the Blackpool SC (both developed by Blackpool Developments Ltd [Shipton Group owned by Clayton Love]) The developers were just this week granted permission to add an additional level to the multi-storey car-park to the rear of the main Retail Park building – but refused 2 amendments to warehousing units A and B.

-> Still on the PJ Hegarty line – they are the main contractors behind the redevelopment of the AIB at 11 Patrick Street. I was surprised today when I saw the extent of the redevlopment – I had been unaware at how large scale it is. The entire AIB building except the facade has been demolished, along with adjoining buildings and properties bought up by AIB as part of the redevelopment. The branch is one of the banking groups most profitable and is in line to have the entire premises on Patrick Street the whole back to the new Penneys extension and across to Wintrhop Street redeveloped in a project estimated at 7m euros.
_______________________________________________

-> Frinailla Developments have erected a huge banner across the facade of the old Grand Parade Hotel announcing the real estate launch of the new Grand Parade Plaza apartment and retail centre. The rear grounds of the hotel and former nightclub have been completely demolished – Rainey Architects of Kinsale are responsible for design of the 30m euro, 7-storey project to include 50 apartments and a higher-order retail centre. John Paul Construction are the main contractors.

-> Corbett Bros. Developments have been GRANTED permission for their office/residential/commercial development at Parnell Place. Originally a 5-storey over basement car-park development – a CCC condition for planning requires a reduction in one floor of apartments, reducing the original # of 18 to 15. The original facades on Parnell Place are to be refurbished and incorporated into the new development.

-> Also, Corbett Bros. project at Copley Street is making rapid headway. Their new office/apartment and leisure building, 2 linked 5-storey blocks, is being constructed by Coffey Construction. Major drilling and excavation has commenced to cater for the 90-car space underground parking facility with lightning speed.

-> Cumnor Construction’s 7-storey apt. building was due to be decided upon yesterday, but CCC has requested Further Info. Personally, I think Cumnor has made rapid growth of late – from small residential projects, the Blarney based company is now taking on huge developments such as that at Knapps Sq. for Hanranka Ltd. – but I think their energies would be better focused in a location more within the city centre than in Sundays Well. A 7-storey apt building there just doesn’t seem right. And I love large scale development – but even my developers conscience (and we do actually have them) is all Jimny Crickett on this one.

a 7 storey development in Sundays Well is criminal. This is one of the nicest areas of Cork City and should be preserved in its present shape. Road access is a nightmare at present, and this will make it worse.

Yep – here is a CG picture of the soon to be refurbished Cork Bus Station. After months and years of negotiation, the build-up, the excitement, the possibilities – sigh…how very CIE.

*UPDATES*

As announced today in the Sunday Business Post (11/7/2004) – Hilton Hotels have signed on to operate the new 150-bedroom hotel at Mahon Point. The O’Callaghan Properties/McCarthy Developments project consists of a massive shopping centre (of which Debenhams, Tesco and Next are the main anchor tenants) which includes an 11-screen multiplex, a retail park (anchored by B&Q and Johnson & Perrott), convention centre, offices and publishing centre owned by Thomas Crosbie Holdings (leasing to Webprint Concepts).

The Cork Hilton is the latest in a number of hotels under construction and/or operated by major international hotel chains in Cork city – others incl. Radisson SAS at Eastgate on Little Island, the Clarion on Lapps Quay and (rumour has it) Marriott at Ballincollig Town Centre.

Can someone possibly give me an update on how things are going with the Patrick Street redevelopment.. I am assuming work is near completion at this stage????

Patrick’s Street is almost complete – bar a small section between River Island and 26 Patrick’s Street (AIB Redevelopment). This is scheduled to be complete by late next week.

Meanwhile work on Oliver Plunkett Street is at an advanced stage (despite some whiney traders) – and work has begun on Grand Parade (from Daunt Square to the Capitol Cineplex).

any chance of some pics, Lexington?

have some images, but are about six weeks old, would need instructions on how to post them though

Bunch,

If the images are on your computer – you’ll have to upload them off your hard-drive. Click on ‘Post Reply’, when new page opens up, go to ‘Attach File’ and select the pic you wanna upload. But there is a limit on the size of the upload.

If the images are on a website – get the full address of the picture – including all extensions and then go to Post Reply – select ‘IMG’ tool and enter the address.

There was an article in the Sunday Tribune Business section yesterday explaining the financial difficulties that Jarvis are in and they also speculated that this could have a knock-on effect on the Cork School Of Music development which Jarvis are constucting as part of the PPP agreement with the Department of Education/CIT.Anyone heard anymore on this?Do you think this will delay or even worse (shudder to think) put some serious doubts about the project?

thanks lexington

here are a few about 3 months old i’m afraid, i reduced image size for posting

woops

&

Although preliminnary work on the Cork School of Music has begun – the demolition of the existing building and construction of the new college building (which incorporates space provided by clearance of old building and adjacent car-parking area) has yet to go ahead. Jarvis Plc (who’s 1st PPP project outside the UK is the CSM) have stressed that the Cork project will be unaffected by its recent fiscal problems. CEO, Michael Hyde has pointed out that Jarvis is actively pursuing all its outstanding dues and has begun selling off certain assets it no longer views as core to its operations.

“This is an extremely challenging time for the group and we are taking the necessary decisions and implementing them. We are collecting outstanding payments and have more to do. We are also taking very significant overhead cost out of the business. Considerable progress has been made, and further action is planned to ensure a leaner, sustainable core business for the future,” said Michael Hyde (02/07/2004)

Hopefully these assurances will stand – but as Frinailla Developments learned with their An Caislean development in Ballincollig, despite the strongest assurances of the contractors, sometimes financal circumstances over-rule the strongest of commitments. Though Jarvis is in a seriously tricky corner – I think the CSM should be unaffected. I’ll keep an eye on this one – and let you know if the situation alters. Fingers crossed!
____________________________________________________

Originally posted by lexington
Yep – here is a CG picture of the soon to be refurbished Cork Bus Station. After months and years of negotiation, the build-up, the excitement, the possibilities – sigh…how very CIE.

This is a disgrace.
A superb large city centre property with river frontage and this is what cie do to it… this is disgusting. No wonder this company are in financial dire straits. Off the cuff how much could they have realised by redeveloping this site with a private developer (for example O’Callaghans who could’ve connected the site to Merchants quay).

Why do the local politicians just accept this crap from a semi-state? Why such slow progress on Horgan’s quay, where are the elected representatives???

i agree – the bus station refurb is a joke – a half assed effort and it is a disgrace – however, i think that it is a short term effort to save face for the Capital of Culture – and nothing more. Its pathethic that neither CIE nor Bus Eireann can put their heads together and deliver an integrated public transport hub on horgans quay – as proposed many years ago – it just shows how these state bodies under perform and how completely incapable and unambitious they really are. its depressing.

Speaking of the an Caislean development in Ballincollig there seems to be little or no progress being made on the apartments. the tower crane has been on site for several months now but there is little to show for it. Also a lot of the residents who purchased houses in the estate are unhappy with the finish and several have sold the houses back to the developer – surely a bad sign!

Hey All,has anyone got any photos or updated info on how the new terminal and associated works are going at Cork Airport?

Originally posted by corkdood
Speaking of the an Caislean development in Ballincollig there seems to be little or no progress being made on the apartments. the tower crane has been on site for several months now but there is little to show for it. Also a lot of the residents who purchased houses in the estate are unhappy with the finish and several have sold the houses back to the developer – surely a bad sign!

Yeah – the contractors awarded the project by Frinailla went into receivership halfway through the project, before they ever got to construct the apartment buildings (hence the tower crane). Frinailla are reportedly livid – but are seeking a new contractor to finish the development. They say that their Grand Parade Plaza development in the city centre is unaffected. John Paul Construction are the builders behind that project.
__________________

Also, I agree, the Bus Station is a pathetic effort by CIE in attempt to save face and quelm the angry voices coming from Cork. But this “refurbishment” won’t keep those voices quiet for long. The Bus Station site on Merchants Quay has huge potential. But this is typical of CIE – think Horgan’s Quay and Eglinton Street (which has since been acquired from An Post by O’Flynn Construction for a major retail/residential development). And furthermore, CIE won’t sell the site, which would be beautiful for a new commercial development – one proposal not so long ago incl. a 6-storey over basement commercial/retail development which would link to Merchants Quay SC and incorporated a brand-spanking new bus-station at basement, ground and 1st floor levels (w/ 3 bus park levels). CIE could then contribute or rent with funds received from the sale. Both both these options were unaccepted.

_____________________

Also, I’ll get Cork Airport pics up later tonight. The Airport Terminal will be the best in the country. Its already looking pretty good!

Did Frinilla get planning permission for their proposed development for Watercourse Road?

Have Howard Holdings released any info of their proposed Albert Quay development?

no decision from ABP yet on Frinailla’s Blackpool Development, although I expect a refusal on that one, have heard nothing on Albert Quay as yet

Originally posted by Torquemada
Hey All,has anyone got any photos or updated info on how the new terminal and associated works are going at Cork Airport?

They are just about to put the third layer of gold leaf onto it I believe.

When completed it will be Irelands first decent terminal building since the original Collinstown Terminal, not that one can compare the needs of those days and these.

Talking about all this transport just got this from http://www.platform11.org

“Cork Rail Plan Gets the Go-Ahead.
Proper Strategic Planning Wins the Day

“I can assure you today that the decades of closures and the downgrading of lines and services can now be consigned to the past. The future of the railway is all about growth in customers and expansion of services.”
Minister for Transport, Seamus Brennan
– May, 2004

“Among the domino effects of the Celtic Tiger, an explosion in car ownership has resulted in major traffic problems being tackled by a multi-billion euro network of ring roads, links, bypasses, flyovers and motorways. Besides bringing home the folly of shutting local railway lines, it also underlines the urgency of re-opening them.”

In what is perhaps the most significant and positive development for Irish rail transport since the construction of the DART in the early 1980’s, the Government has approved the funding of Iarnród Eireann’s Cork Rail Plan, including the reopening of the Midleton branch, which Platform11 wholeheartedly supported since our inception.

The Cork Rail Plan fits all the criteria for the successful cohesion between strategic land usage and reopening of closed rail lines. Platform11 hopes that other local authorities around the country will now follow Cork City and Council’s enlighten approach, and rezone land for development along existing and closed rail corridors. Congrats to all parties involved for this historic development.”

A good decision thinks Diaspora, definitely to be welcomed

Those Cork Airport pictures I promised -> it’s pretty impressive. Designed by HOK in conjunction with JACOBS.

26,500 sq m, 4 air-bridges, 5 luggage belts, 32-check-in desks, shops, restaurants, private lounges, amenity areas, 1200 space multi-storey car-park with a further 600 spaces on the ground, two dual-carriageways, new cargo-bay (x2 larger than current cargo area), new taxiways – the works. Capable of catering 3-million a year comfortably – with provision for 5-million p.a. (which is probably going to be need a lot sooner than first thought).

_______________________

Originally posted by mickeydocs
Did Frinilla get planning permission for their proposed development for Watercourse Road?

Have Howard Holdings released any info of their proposed Albert Quay development?

No, Frinailla are still in appeal with ABP. I too have a feeling that their plans for the Watercourse Road – a 70-million euro, 7 -> 9 storey residential, educational, medical and commerical development spanning almost half the length of the road – will face it tough on ABP’s decision. Although you never know with ABP sometimes. It would be good for this area of Blackpool undoubtedly, even residents have agreed with this, I think the reason for the refusal by CCC was the height of the development. I also feel there have been more inspired designs. Sometime like the other Frinailla project, the Grand Parade Plaza would have been welcomed easier I think.

Also, Howard Holdings are preparing an application for permission with CCC under an undisclosed wholly-owned company name to develop a 5-storey over basement office building, incorporating Albert House (the current CCC Parking Fines Centre – shudder!!!) on Albert Quay. The site, facing out onto the quay, has been donated by CCC and was formally used as a rail-cargo storage facility, and more recently car-repair facilities and the like. The building is specifically designed to nurture upstart businesses and/or cater for new IT agencies and so on. Already, a vast quantity of foreign interest has been displayed for such a facility in Cork.

O’Flynn Construction plan a major development to the rear of the Howard Holdings project on the former An Post Sorting Office – purchased for 10m euro in Feb.

I’ve attained a list of tenants for the new 500m euro, 381,000sq ft (not incl. Debenhams and Tesco stores) Mahon Point SC in Cork – these tenants will be confirmed for definite in September (if not otherwise stated below) plus additional tenant names – this is only what I can reveal as of now.

Retail Tenants:

-> (C) = Confirmed Letting/Sale, (L) = Letting Agreed

1. Debenhams (C), 2. Tesco (C) 3. Next (C) 4. Schuh (C) 5. Sam McCauley (C) 6. Pamela Scott (C) 7. Mango (C) 8. Zara (C) 9. Champion Sports (C) 10. River Island (C) 11. Sasha (C) 12. Easons (C) 13. Oasis (C) 14. Pull and Bear (C) 15. Clinton Cards (C) 16. HMV (L) 17. Barratts (C). 18. Vero Moda (L) 19. Jack & Jones (L) 20. fcuk (C) 21. 3G (L) 22. Topshop (L)* 23. Game (C) 24. Miss Selfridge (L) 25. Waterstones (L) 26. Monsoon (L) – many more to be confirmed.

[*Arcadia has announced that it plans to limit its expansion plans for reasons of cost-cutting. Although its Irish stores remain among its most profitable. It is unknown as to how this may affect its Mahon Point store as no papers have yet been signed.]

Food Court Tenants:
1. McDonalds (C) 2. KFC (C) 3. Zumo Juice Bars (L) 4. Subway (L) – plus more to be confirmed.

Retail Park Tenants:
1. B&Q (C) 2. Johnson & Perrott (C). 3. Webprint Concepts (C)

Multiplex Tenant:
1. Ward Anderson (L) (*had contested with UCI)

Hotel Operator:
1. Hilton Hotels International (C)

__________________________

Just on this note:

Wilton SC Extension:

Confirmed Retail Tenants: 1. New Look 2. Specsavers 3. Brown Thomas (BT2) 4. Azal Properties (O’Brien’s Sandwich Bar) – more to be announced soon.

Blackpool Retail Park: 1. Atlantic Homecare 2. BPD Leisure (Bowling Alley) 3. Reel Cinemas (Multiplex) – more to be announced soon.

Eastgate, Little Island, Commercial Park: 1. PC World 2. Homebase – more to be announced soon.

Ballincollig Town Centre SC: 1. Marks & Spencer (this is the rumoured tenant. No confirmations until end of July according to O’Flynn Construction)

Goodbye Cork City Centre!!!
That’s an impressive line up for Mahon Point Lexington.

Well – in-line with my earlier reports, the Mercy University Hospital in Cork together with UCC have purchased the Irish Distillers site on the North Mall for 20m euro. The lands are to be split evenly between the 2 organisations.

Now that the bidding is closed, I can tell you that a joint venture of bidders, one reportedly Hanranka Ltd. has bid also for the site, but withdrew due to undisclosed reasons. The private venture would have included a new urban quarter for Cork with offices, shopping boulevards, cafes, restaurants, residential units, boardwalks, nightclubs, bars, public amenity park, university buildings and a site that would have been offered to the Mercy Hospital anyway. It’s a shame this didn’t get through.

The Mercy claim to have trouble financing their new A&E but have been able to splash out on this acquisition. UCC, also claiming financial restrictions, are completing their new 50m Medical Facility at Brookfield, have just received planning for a new 25m euro Pharmacy School on College Road, applied for planning for a new 35m euro Boole Library extension and are applying for a new 62m-euro IT centre on the former Greyhound Track along the Western Road. Hmmmm. Well I suppose congratulations are in order – I just hope they use the lands wisely.

firstly I was wondering is there any news on the proposed Cork to NY route that was mentioned somewhere at the start of this thread?

Also lexington I thought that IT centre for UCC had got planning ages ago, thought they should have started construction well before now!!

BTW good thread and the updates are excellent Lexington, keep us informed!!

Originally posted by Leesider
firstly I was wondering is there any news on the proposed Cork to NY route that was mentioned somewhere at the start of this thread?

Also lexington I thought that IT centre for UCC had got planning ages ago, thought they should have started construction well before now!!

BTW good thread and the updates are excellent Lexington, keep us informed!!

Thanks man! I appreciate that seriously! 🙂

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The Cork – New York JFK route is to be run by Aer Lingus 3x a week at first – pending on the outcome of US-Ireland Bilateral Aviation Agreements. (Basically, it comes down to abolishing the Shannon Stop-over – at the moment, for every transatlantic flight from an Irish city besides Shannon, has to be met with the same number of flights to that transatlantic destination from Shannon – it’s a complete joke!)

The negotiations are on-going. Willie Walsh, CEO of Aer Lingus said that in the long-run, it would make more economic sense to have more transatlantic passenger flights from Cork rather than Shannon – which he believes should become one of the Cargo Hubs of Europe. It does make sense – more jobs in the long-run. But he stresses the need for an extended runway and new taxiways. The new terminal development (see previous Cork Airport post) is already catering to new parking areas and air-bridges to facilitate such aircraft. This year, Cork will carry almost a third more passengers than Shannon. (projected 2.8 < million passengers)

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And no formal application for Planning has been submitted by UCC with relation to the IT Centre construction – but has been outlined as part of the UCC Development Plan. A sort of outline permission has been granted subject to conditions – by ‘outline’ I mean, support by CCC, but no formal planning.

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*UPDATES*

The Dept. of Education have said that they intend to stand by Jarvis in the development of the CSM – but though some preliminary construction work has begun, no construction other than this will begin until at least June 2005 (a further push back along the time-line). This, it is claimed, is due to the fact that signatures are needed by all Jarvis’ financial backers to give them the go-ahead in lieu of the construction firm’s 230m euro debt.

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Transatlantic flights are crucial to our attempts to attract software and financial operations to the city, which is imperative if we are to seriously launch our city as a true business city.

In a previous post Lexington mentioned German banks being interested in relocating Leeside, have you heard anything since?

Lexington, I hope what you heard about marks and spencer becoming an anchor in Ballincollig will become a reality. I heard rumours Tesco where in line for the food anchor. I’m all for competition in the retail sector but we need variety. tesco are represented in almost every major retail development at the moment e.g. Mahon point, Dundrum Town centre, Clare Hall, Redevelopment of Wilton. Please not another Tesco in Ballincollig!

I agree that transatlantic flights are and will become ever more important to Cork – and by result, the whole Southern Region, a region of over 1.1m people.

-> No news on the German bank for the docklands. There are many multimillion euro deals currently being organised within City Hall at the moment with relation to the docklands in Cork, one report (by Tommy Barker of Irish Examiner, Thurs 8th July 2004) is rumoured to be in excess of 200m euro. The German bank residency could depend on the outcome of any one of these deals.

-> According to the PRO for O’Flynn Construction’s Ballincollig Town Centre project, a major food retail chain has been agreed to anchor the SC. Although Tesco is a name that has been put strongly up in the air, Tesco Ireland claim their main focus has been on Mahon Point and Wilton. This does not rule them out, but Marks & Spencer, who long ago where the front-runners to anchor the food store at Mahon Point and later pulled out, have been seeking a second property in Cork city (their current Cork store is the 4th most profitable in the entire network) and local real estate agents have hinted strongly that BTC is the best available location.

However the decision has already been made and only time will reveal. Processes of elimination narrow the list of potentials, it won’t be SuperValu, they already have 2 stores in town and it would adversely affect these existing businesses. Dunnes are focusing on a new store in Carrigaline and Bishopstown Court nearby is ongoing expansion. It is too close to BTC to be viable. Tesco may, but their huge new 24hr Wilton SC store is still undergoing development and a new store at Mahon Point makes location to BTC unlikely – but still a possibility. That leaves Marks & Spencer, who have been seeking a new Cork property actively and would stand to benefit greatly from a new store here. Aldi and Lidl are pursuing their own seperate new stores in Ballincollig.

Yes I was thinking along the same lines, because I knew how Marks and Spencer had wanted to locate at Mahon Point. I was also thinking about Superquinn but I don’t think they have much intent on entering the Cork Market at the moment.

Anybody got a link to this story? I couldn’t find it in the archives.

-> No news on the German bank for the docklands. There are many multimillion euro deals currently being organised within City Hall at the moment with relation to the docklands in Cork, one report (by Tommy Barker of Irish Examiner, Thurs 8th July 2004) is rumoured to be in excess of 200m euro. The German bank residency could depend on the outcome of any one of these deals.

The Examiner are terrible for putting their Commercial Property news online. Just the Residential Stuff.

Originally posted by mickeydocs
Anybody got a link to this story? I couldn’t find it in the archives.

I can’t find it in the TCM Archives either mickeydocs – but it was published on the 8th of July in the IE. It was related to the story on the acquistion of the Sextant Bar by Careys Tool Hire.

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I think the proposals for the new bus station are terrible.
How did the Cork City Council approve them?

Originally posted by lawyer
I think the proposals for the new bus station are terrible.
How did the Cork City Council approve them?

Well the orginal plan saw the extension and partial demolition of existing bus station with a 360-degree ‘control tower’ erected on the roof and so on – this inadequate but substantially better plan was given approval originally, but Bus Eireann came back a few months later and amended their plans, cutting back on almost all major development elements bar the canopy erection. Pathetic!

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Meanwhile, Oliver Plunkett Street (OPS) is looking pretty good – though there’s clearly a long way to go yet, some of the first section of its new design has been unveiled and what an improvement it is!

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*UPDATES*

Though its 2 years away yet, O’Callaghan Properties have put the bid out on designs for the Academy Street (Irish Examiner HQ) retail development – which will cost an est’d 150m euro to build. Deals have recently been completed with almost all the surrounding properties bar the AA Ireland Building. The design will by way of planning need to consider the AA Ireland Building and Le Cheateau public house on Patrick’s Street in its design as these are protected structures – and trust me – will be virtually impossible to get passed with relation to any development – and rightly so. They are important elements of Cork’s history and architecture.

It is believed, the 6 storey over basement development of mixed retail and residential, will hark back to a post-modern design with consideration for its surroundings such as the Crawford Gallery, Patrick Street redevelopment, AA Ireland Building and Le Cheateau. I am informed that the developer is keen to provide a landmark development incorporating modern and old styles – an example of the Jervis Street Shopping Centre entrance on Henry Street in Dublin was given (a large peaked arch way and copper dome incorporating red-brick to blend with surrounding buildings of foregone eras.)

O’Callaghan Properties, with the exception of 21 Lavitts Quay don’t have a good track record for design, so this project will be a HUGE test for them. Both planning authorities and the public are going to demand a superior standard of design for such a prestigious location and development. Here’s hoping!

Its being a newsworthy day in the Cork development arena:

*UPDATES*

– Pierse Construction are to begin construction on the 20m-euro UCC School of Pharmacy, on College Road this August. (I will post a picture of the development on this post later on when I edit it).

– Merchants Quay SC is scheduled to undergo a 7m euro facelift – in order to make the centre a more attractive place to shop running up to Cork 2005 and its 15-year anniversary. (Will post pic here later also). The design is subtle but exciting nonetheless.

– Frinailla have gone to appeal on its project for 221 homes, 74 apartments, creche and after school-minding centre on a 21-acre site between Ballincollig and the city (east-side). The project was scheduled to commence this August.
-> Frinailla seem to be getting a real tough time in the recent projects; their 70m high-rise residential project in Blackpool was refused by CCC, has since gone to ABP on appeal and waits decision – but the prospects are dim.; their 30m An Caislean project suffered as the building contractors assigned to the development went into liquidation half-way through the project (a lone tower crane still remains on a vacant site); their Grand Parade Plaza project has been held up due to archelogical excavations – which seem to never end; and now this project in Ballincollig’s east-side. Just hope their fortunes pick up. Roll on the Grand Parade Plaza!

Plans are also afoot to demolish Jurys Hotel on western road and build a new hotel complex plus a separate apartment and creche development plus a new bridge linking it with Lancaster Quay

*UPDATES*

The Munster Agricultural Show Society – owners of the Cork Showgrounds in the Docklands Area – confirmed today it is in the process of determining between 2 bids for the 22-acre site. One bid is being made by the GAA who own the adjacent Pairc Ui Chaoimh, the acquired site would allow for further development of the GAA Grounds. Another bid proposes a 5000 seat convention/conference centre and commercial area – rivalling a similar bid proposed on Horgan’s Quay by CIE/Treasury Holdings and Manor Park Homes.

-> a 5m -euro plan to redeveloped Cornmarket Street is set to get the go-ahead by early next month – this would compliment the 30m euro residential and retail development by Rockfell Investments on the former Guy & Co site, which is still awaiting a planning decision.

2 other large scale development projects are currently at pre-planning along Cornmarket Street and announcements are expected to be made on these in the near future.

-> The Millenium Cornmarket Street Bridge, whose sections can be seen resting along Lavitts Quay, are being shift into place soon. CCC are funding the project, Ascon are the contractors. The bridge is expected to further compliment the pedestrian flow to the street – which is, in development terms, one of the most exciting and sought after streets in the country – as it is seen, along with Grand Parade as a natural extension of Patrick’s Street.

Originally posted by corkdood
Plans are also afoot to demolish Jurys Hotel on western road and build a new hotel complex plus a separate apartment and creche development plus a new bridge linking it with Lancaster Quay

Well, the plan includes a partial demolition to cater for refurbishment. The proposed development for Jurys on the Western Road includes a private multi-storey car-park, additional floor to cater for between 40 to 60 new rooms, extended conference facilities, internal refurbishment, external facade and structural adjustments to existing river-side hotel, possible additional fourth floor, new leisure facilities, adjusted amenity landscaping and demolition and relocation of new, wider bridge between new development and Lancaster Quay/Western Road.

*UPDATES*

-> Speaking of hotels, the Kingsley Hotel on the Carrigohane Straight Road, across the road from the 60m euro Cork County Hall extension and redevelopment, have just been greenlighted for a 50m euro extension, including construction of 10178 sq.m. of new hotel facilities, comprising 4674 sq.m. 82 bedroom extension in two new wings to the existing Kingsley Hotel, 818 sq.m. of conference facilities, 597 sq.m. of leisure and spa facilities, 500 sq.m. extended dining and kitchen facilities, and 3589 sq.m. 19 unit aparthotel and associated offices to the Western end of the existing hotel. 3. Two level basement carpark of 740 spaces to serve the two developments, and 102 surface spaces. 4. Formation of a new vehicular access to the centre of the site. And all other site development works including internal access roads, parking areas, and landscaping to facilitate the proposed development

-> Right next to the Kingsley (and as part of the same application as the above) on site of a former Park and Ride facility, permission, after appeal, has been granted to Rathmelton Investments Ltd for construction of a new 14,068 sq.m. five storey student housing development, comprising 116 apartments, (514 student bedspaces) and to incorporate 840 sq.m. communal facilities including retail, restaurant, laundary, and other support facilities. Rathmelton is responsible for this development of both the Kingsley and Student accomodation.

Construction begins soon.

-> Meanwhile, just a few steps away from the Kingsley, Paul Montgomery and Edmund Kenneally’s 25m euro 9-storey student development, Victoria Hall, is seeing the scaffolding come gradually down on the main building, work is swiftly continuing on the Victoria Cross elevation. Anyway, the same developers are in appeal for a further student development on the site of the current Statoil station adjacent to Victoria Hall. Next to that, on the site of the former M&P O’Sullivan Cash & Carry, Fleming Construction are in appeal for a student development of 166 student apartments in 4 5-storey blocks.

Some interesting construction pics of Victoria Hall.

More recent pics of Victoria Hall.

Visitt THIS link to see computer images of the finished product – both Phase One of Victoria Hall, and 2nd phase currently in appeal (former Statoil) ->

-> In an answer to an e-mail enquiry for a forum member; the development at Camden Quay, across the road from John Hornibrook’s 20m-euro residential (58 apartments) and commercial (offices, 9 retail units and restaurant) development, is being developed by Neil O’Sullivan of OSB (O’Sullivan Bros.) DIY store in Hollyhill Industrial Estate, Cork. The current, first phase of development consists of demolition of existing industrial buildings, the construction of 40 No. apartments, incorporating 32 No. 2 bed and 8 No. 1 bed and ancillary site works and minor elevation alterations to the property at 4 Camden Quay (Protected Structure). Contractors are John Supple Ltd. However, the 2nd phase of the development is in appeal, thanks to ‘you know who’, it involves, the demolition of existing buildings, the construction of 55 no. apartments, incorporating 16 no. 1 bed and 39 no. 2 bed, the reconstruction of the Cork Arts Theatre and Pa Johnsons licensed premises and ancillary site works
along 10 & 11 Devonshire Street, 4 – 7 Knapps Square, Camden Quay.

The fact that this 2nd phase has gone to appeal is a great shame, this area is the last remaining negelected site along Camden Quay (which one must agree looks so much more cosmopolitan and impressive as a result of the many major developments here), and the design is in keeping with the area respective of adjacent developments. It would provide a badly needed new Cork Arts Theatre coming into Cork’s year as Capital of Culture and reconstruct Pa Johnson’s famous local bar, which is near ruin. James Leahy and Associates (not always my favourite architectural firm – but who have made a nice effort on this particular development) are the design time for this project. I have to say, it is by far one of Leahy’s better projects. A great pity, which was one of the conditions under which CCC granted the project, was the removal of a 6th floor roof garden, with playground and extensive vegetation and the works – it would have been a superb amenity element to the project for residents. It was conditionally removed on the grounds that it would be a visual impediment to Shandon Bells (don’t ask! – it ticked me off too trying to answer it, I mean, it was a garden – not an additional concrete floor!).

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PS. Not forgetting about pics of UCC School of Pharamacy – just having trouble posting them. Will so my best to get them up as soon as I can!

Lexington – is that part of Cork facing student accommodation overkill? It seems that end of UCC was bereft for years and suddenly everyone is jumping on the wagon. A student ghetto???

Hi Lex,

Those lights on Pana don’t seem to be too popular! See O Connell street thread!

nul

Last time I was in Cork I noticed that work was being done on the Bus Station. Does anyone know exactly what is being done to it?

Thanks

Phil

d_d_dallas
Lexington – is that part of Cork facing student accommodation overkill? It seems that end of UCC was bereft for years and suddenly everyone is jumping on the wagon. A student ghetto???

This is a sorta dodgy question. There’s a couple of things you have to realise – the current Cork City Development Plan has strongly emphasised its desire to reclaim city housing for owner-occupiers/families from investor activities related to student accomodation – most of which is centre along the College Road, Connaught Avenue area. Victoria Cross was earmarked as the preferred area for purpose built student accomodation to facilitate the expanding campus which stretches for the ERI on the Lee Road to the Distillery Fields on the North Mall. As the Cork County Hall area is also zoned for high-rise development, and the Section 50 tax designation, developers were approached by UCC who, in line with the development plan, decided to embark on student developments. You have to remember, almost all new student developments – Farranlea Hall, Victoria Lodge, the Spires and the project undertaken by Fleming Construction for the former M&P O’Sullivan Cash & Carry site, currently in appeal, were all undertaken by private developers on behalf of UCC for UCC requirements. Victoria Hall, the Kingsley/Rathmelton Investments development, Cregnane Hall and so on, were undertaken privately. If the development plan succeeds, a satisfactory demand will soak up all these current developments, but as it stands, UCC Accomodations Offices apparently had a hard time filling all these new developments last year. And now that, come this new academic year, bed numbers have doubled, and will triple with Rathmelton Investments and O’Shea Builders developments soon to begin construction. It’s a dodgy development area, but if cards are played right, it may just pay-off. But it’ll be tight. Not every UCC student or family can afford between 3000 and 6000 euros in accommodation every year.

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Hey Phil, details of the Bus Station are available in a previous page of this thread – with pictures. It’s nothing to get too excited about. Trust me. More pics available if ya want.

Some of the local residents aren’t too happy about it. Didn’t someone run in the European elections on an anti high rise ticket? I went for a run past Victoria Cross a few nights ago. Passed a few local residents standing outside the Victoria Hall site entrance, they were having an animated conversation. Not exactly happy campers!

Cork City FC 2- Nantes Atlantique FC 0

As I figured, Frinailla have been refused planning by ABP w.r.t. their 70m euro, 9-storey development along Watercourse Road in Blackpool. Hopefully Frinailla will revise their development and reapproach Blackpool in the near future.

This is my first post – I stumbled across this forum, and find it very interesting. I have a keen interest in the development of Cork City. There are lots of positive things happening at the moment. Patrick Street looks impressive, but one or two questions – whay are loading bays in operation all day Saturday, up to 6pm? And whay are cars allowed to park there – they make the street look cluttered and untidy. There must be 4 new taxi ranks along Pana, when originally they were to locate to Academy street. Does anyone konw of that cccTV camera on a high pole outside BT (Maylor St side) is going to move??

Fianlly, thanks to Lexington for all the insights – very helpful info.

I just saw the following on the Examiners ‘breaking news’ web-page, looks exactly like Lexington’s recent report!!

*******
Top brand BT2 to open Wilton outlet
24/07/2004 – 15:15:11

Designer label store BT2, an offshoot of the popular Brown Thomas, will be drawing fashion-conscious shoppers to Wilton, Cork.

The store is understood to have agreed a lease at Wilton Shopping Centre.

The pricey clothes store features more casual gear than the clothes sold at the main Brown Thomas department store.

Other tenants for the new €20m extension at Wilton Shopping Centre are believed to include clothes stores New Look and Specsavers.

Meanwhile at Mahon Point Shopping Centre, a source has revealed that popular shoe store Schuh is to finalise a lease at the shopping centre.

It has also been revealed that high-street fashion outlets River Island, Mango, Zara and Miss Selfridge have made letting or sale agreements at the 500 million Mahon Point complex.

Already-named tenant stores are French Connection, Next, Principles, Pamela Scott, Easons, Sam McAuley chemists, Tesco, Debenhams and DIY retailers B&Q.

Urban fashion store Topshop has also been linked to the Mahon complex but no papers have yet been signed because of its plans to cut costs.

The shopping centre will also have three restaurants, a food court with six additional food outlets, an 11-screen cineplex and parking for 1,600 cars.

It is believed that Ward Anderson, the largest cinema group in the country, won the multiplex contract over rivals UCI cinemas.

The food court tenants expected to be announced shortly at Mahon are McDonalds, Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC), Zumo Juice Bars and sandwich outlet Subway.

Meanwhile, shoppers to the west of the city could be buying M&S clothes and household goods locally.

A property source has also revealed that a possible tenant at the new Ballincollig Town Centre could be Marks and Spencer.

*******

Yes – the report in the Evening Echo, reported by Christina O’Rourke, has a question mark hanging over her ‘property source’. Particular informations supplied in her article are found exclusive to this forum, even the information orders mirror my post. As a consequence, I will investigate the background of the article and be in contact with the aforementioned reporter – and perhaps, based on my reply outcome, the Evening Echo editorial time, plus particular TCM managerial staff. I would hope, that such incidents – if proven to be taken from this forum – will not occur again without prior consent of resepective contributers. I have researched the legal aspects of these acts and they are all supportive of prior consentual initiatives from the primary source before secondary publication regardless of specific word arrangement.

I encourage and willfully supply such information – but within context and based on consent. Media publication of such information at a mass level – jeporadise my ability to provide further, future information – as I am the one who hears all about it at the other end of an angry phone call. If Ms. O’Rourke is found to have adapted such primary source material from this forum and my post for her own benefit, it would paint a poor and unhealthy veil over the reliability and moral conduct of the associated media agency – and may see further announcements of major property developments purposely leaked to other media organisations before that of Ms. O’Rourke’s or other sources within the public domain. I certainly hope that this will not be the case.

The unfortunate thing is, I would gladly inform Ms. O’Rourke of breaking deals and reliable exclusives within the world of Cork’s property market – in conjunction with this forum, if only consent was sought beforehand. What goes on the website and what goes in the press may seem like trivial matters to some – but unfortunately, this is not the view of those involved. As a result, what goes to press must be cautioned and cherry-picked in accordance with associative consequences.

Speaking of Cork generally, is there any sign of the Merchant’s Quay Centre being redeveloped, or even refaced?

That would be a coup, to get a good-looking replacement for one of the most prominent (but awful) buildings in Cork.

Yeah Devin, a 7m euro redevelopment of Merchants Quay SC has already begun and is expected to be complete in time for 2005. However, this redevelopment involves few external alterations and it is unlikely they will be substantial in scale to make the building look in anyway better.

Originally posted by lexington

Hey Phil, details of the Bus Station are available in a previous page of this thread – with pictures. It’s nothing to get too excited about. Trust me. More pics available if ya want. [/B]

Thanks for that. I should have looked more closely through the thread before asking about the bus station.

Thanks

Phil

was in Cork at the weekend and I like what I saw on Patrick’s Street. OK those lights are a bit curious ok, but the paving has a lovely finish. The bins are inadeqaute and I’ve always thought it, Cork must be one of the dirtiest towns in Ireland and last Saturday was no different.

I see they’ve started on Oliver Plunkett street, should be good when it’s finished. Cork seems to be getting its act together but still has a way to go. Most obviously CornMarket street, and those Gaping holes on Washingto Street. Oh and a proper Litter management / flogging for the natives scheme!

Yeah anto, the Patrick’s Street lamps are a topic of some debate, but I think it’s hard to deny the fact, the city centre is looking way better. Oliver Plunkett Street, Grand Parade, Shandon Street, South Mall and soon to be refurbished Cornmarket Street are all going to add to this.

I agree that Cork still has a long way to go, but it’s nice to see that it is on that way. Some major projects are nearing completion, coming on-line and/or are in planning for the city – its really encouraging.

Fears that developments like Mahon Point, Ballincollig Town Centre and the redevelopment of Douglas Village SC would take away from the city centre, are being combat by projects such as the proposed 150m retail development on Academy Street by O’Callaghan Properties, the 60m retail/residential project at Eglinton Street by O’Flynn Construction, the Grand Parade Plaza by Frinailla, Cornmarket Street (Guy & Co. building) development by Rockfell and proposed 30m retail/leisure development at Grand Parade/Washington Street junction (no confirmation as of yet). As a result, there is a major influx of investment into the city centre, as well as suburbs. The Cork city office market is really coming into swing, with Howard Holdings 100m euro City Quarter office development, O’Callaghan Properties lavish 21 Lavitts Quay, O’Flynn Construction’s No.5 and No.6 Lapps Quay, Corbett Bros. Copley Street office development and their other office development at Parnell Place/Beasley Street – as well as other such projects like Howard Holdings office building for Alberts Quay and the new Irish Examiner HQ on Lavitts Quay. In addition – the full potential of the Cork Docklands will be spectacular.

The market is really treating these developments well – and it is a clear sign, as Howard Holdings always say that ‘Cork is on the up!’ If projects like these keep in motion (and there are many more projects yet to come into effect), Cork is truly getting its act together and will act as a major counter-balance.

As for litter, believe it or not, Cork has actually got an awful lot better it’s refuse problems – but I agree, we really need to enforce more stringent laws against the shameful crime. Though I refuse to believe Cork is any worse than places like Dublin and Limerick, it doens’t mean we can slack off in our fight on litter. Cork should be a leading example.

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*UPDATES*

In addition to Irish Examiner reports today (28th July 2004), I have been informed that Rockfell Investments look set to be grant permission for their major retail and residential development on Cornmarket Street. The development will include a 6-storey building with 7 retail units amounting to 120,000sq ft in retail space over 2 floors, with the remaining floors utilised as 80 apartments (it is likely this figure will be readdressed). The retail units will be configured to satisfy department store needs. A few big names have expressed interest in this development already, but I can’t reveal their identities without offical notice of planning permission grant. (also because some reporter may splash it all over a local tabloid).

The development will revitalise the street, which it badly needs, and which is set to become a new retail and cultural quarter extending off Patrick’s Street (see previous reports).

Originally, Rockfell had applied back in 1999 for a 9-storey, 408 bedroom hotel development with 1300 seat conference centre, leisure centre, superpub, 20 retail units and 172 space double basement car-park on the same site – but it was refused by ABP. This development was a great loss to Cork – probably one of its biggest in recent times – its design and utility would have revitalised the area much sooner and breathe new life into the street on all levels. It’s most recent incarnation is not up to the same scratch as the past proposal I feel, but it would be a positive step nonethless. I just hope ABP don’t have to get involved this time. An equivalent such loss nowadays would be Water Street, who’s decision has been pushed back until September – I just hope the same mistake isn’t made twice.

Architect = Frank Ennis and Assoc.
Developers = Rockfell Investments (headed by Michael O’Donoghue of the O’Donoghue/Ring Hotel Group and Munster Joinery)

ah can’t you give us just a hint of the names that you have heard that are looking at cornmarket st. A really subltle one that those “nice but dim” people in the local press won’t get and can’t write as their own.
Please
Just like to say that your insight into development in Cork City is greatly appreciated by information hungry people like myself.

Over priced homewares perhaps?

Originally posted by satanta99
ah can’t you give us just a hint of the names that you have heard that are looking at cornmarket st. A really subltle one that those “nice but dim” people in the local press won’t get and can’t write as their own.

Sorry, but I can’t make the same mistakes twice. Rockfell’s development (though I wish it was their previous application on the Guy & Co site) is among the projects I rate most important to Cork’s development. It’s success will determine the tactical and strategic future of Cornmarket Street in a big way – almost more than any CCC investment in the area. Rockfell and CCC have been in long-term discussions with each other on the site, and it is suggested that CCC (especially Joe Gavin and Ronnie McDowell) seriously pursued the retail element of the project, a move a strongly support. Though the retail element is approx. 120,000 sq ft, I still believe it could have been more diverse. A major department store is the way to go on this one.

The projects most important projects at planning stages now in Cork are undoubtedly as follows:

1. Water Street
2. Rockfell’s project on Cornmarket Street
3. John Mannix’s Washington Street project
4. O’Flynn Construction’s Eglinton Street Project
5. Howard Holding’s Albert Quay development
6. Corbett Bros. Parnell Place development
7. and pretty much any Cornmarket Street, Lavitts Quay, Docklands development in the process at the moment.

These projects, in no particular order, are vital and I sincerely hope they succeed. However, there are many more, just as important projects in the works, and I will inform you of them when I am allowed to.

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*UPDATES*

S. Meehan has just applied for a development of a 3 level multi-storey car park and additional commercial units at Grenville Place (end of Bachelor’s Quay – as par my previous post if anyone remembers).

Walking through Patrick Street on Saturday, I was shocked to see a big Portakabin outside Golden Discs/H Samuel, housing the contents of the former CIE shelter that used to be opposite Merchant’s Quay. Please tell me that this is a temporary arrangement.

Was planning permission required for this cabin?
There was a lot of debate when the original shelter was being removed. At the time a lot of people felt it was unsightly and unnecessary.

What is it with CIE (Bus Eireann) and the taxi ranks? They seem hell-bent on cluttering up our new spacious main street.

Beth Gali said her design was to give Patrick Street ‘back to the people’. It would be nice to think this concept could be put into practice. 😉

its true, the taxi situation needs to be contolled badly, they have ruined the space up by the statue. the city council seem to be afraid to take them on and shift their stand off the street, they are acting like pure bullyboys…and getting away with it. the taxi drivers believe that pana was refurbished to facilitate them and them only, its a pity really cause the street looks and feels remarkably well and is now a real pleasure to perambulate, and doing pana of an afternoon has been restored as an age old tradition in a street environment it deserves. ?

any news on that high rise apartment block down the docks Lexington?

was home over the weekend and I thought Cork was looking alot cleaner than a few months ago, a slap of tarmac goes a long way, and at last that drainage system has been finished!!

actually speaking of tarmac,does anyone know which streets in the city centre are going to be resurfaced over the coming months?Im thinking the South Mall and Parnell Place,they are both in a terrible condition.

Yeah Pana, that CIE Porta-cabin is only temporary (thank God!) and there was no planning permission required, it came as an incentive during works on Patrick’s Street – which is due to be entirely complete by the end of this week. Final bricks being laid outside Penneys (itself undergoing refurbishment and extension).

As for taxis, I myself, along with all other traffic except for buses and emergency vehicles, think they should be banned for accessing Patrick’s Street and shifted back to Academy Street or kept down at Parnell Place next to the bus station. For a brief time, taxi ranks were shifted to Academy Street, but local vendors and the taxi-drivers themselves kicked up claiming the arrangement was losing them business. This is a fecious argument, if all taxis were legally required to have their main ranks at Parnell Place or Academy Street, the public, if they wanted the service, would have to walk to these streets. The problem with the former arrangement was poor planning, poor public knowledge, and quite frankly, a stubborn reluctance by plate holders (taxi-drivers). New by-laws, however are in the planning at CCC.

And Torquemada, South Mall and Parnell Place are due a new layer of tarmac, but I can’t confirm dates yet. Already, the Western Road, Washington Street West, South Main Street, Grand Parade, Sheare’s Street, the Mardyke, Horgan’s Quay and Water Street have or are receiving new surfaces. The idea is to have all city arteries up to scratch before 2005. More streets, like
Washington Street, North Mall and the remainder of the Western Road are in line for a refurbishment.

Leesider, as for the 19-storey Water Street development, the decision date for planning was due on the 21st of July 2004, but has been pushed back until September. From what I hear, even the sceptics are having a tough time catching the development out – the planning application is pretty well covered. However, this doesn’t mean exclusion of the possibility for a negative outcome, nor the fact that Further Info will be requested, nor the fact the outcome could be brought to ABP. I hope planning is granted and third parties won’t bring it to Appeal, it really is a top-notch project. Fingers crossed!

Oh oh – Heatons and Shaws are “department stores”… if they moved in to Guy’s that would cement Cornmarket St/North Main St area’s reputation as decidedly low rent.
CCC need to be careful what kind of retail operator get’s in. High quality international tenants are required at that end of Pat St if the area is to stand a fighting chance. Insisting on “department store” might be unwise, as it’s Cork we’re talking about. Selfridges are hardly banging on the door!

weren’t debenhams interested before they chose mahon point?

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
Oh oh – Heatons and Shaws are “department stores”… if they moved in to Guy’s that would cement Cornmarket St/North Main St area’s reputation as decidedly low rent.
CCC need to be careful what kind of retail operator get’s in. High quality international tenants are required at that end of Pat St if the area is to stand a fighting chance. Insisting on “department store” might be unwise, as it’s Cork we’re talking about. Selfridges are hardly banging on the door!

Hey Lexington have you seen the evening echo’s front page?

http://www.eveningecho.ie/pdf/front.pdf

This is going to be extremely important in the continued rise of Cork. Let’s hope they get the accoustics right.

Well, one must remember that it is Michael O’Donoghue behind Rockfell Investments, and if anyone is familiar with his hotel business (and lifestyle) I think the idea of Shaws or Heatons locating in his Cornmarket Street business is slim to none. (I can verify that also from my involvement). -> the site is zoned for Higher Order Retail Development, so if a department store does secure the space, it will be of a high standard (one name interested has just moved into Dublin). But if it doesn’t go the direction of department store, the development has been designed as 7 retail units which may be divided between a selection of upmarket retaillers.

I’ll try and do my best to get up CGIs of the Rockfell development on Cornmarket Street, and hopefully images of their previous proposal (so that we can sigh and long for what could have been). Their new proposal is essentially a scaled down version (3 floors less) of their last, but scaled down (in my opinion) in utility and prospect as well.

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*UPDATES*

City Manager Joe Gavin has confirmed today that 3 sites have been designated for the development of a 6000 seat conference centre and event centre.

The sites are located on Horgan’s Quay/Railway Street (as part of the CIE Development of the Northern Docklands [next to Water Street]- see previous post), The Cork Showgrounds (on the southern docklands) and the jutland along the Douglas River/Atlantic Pond at Mahon Point.

It is clear that the CCC favour the Horgan’s Quay site, and have said they have no trouble finding investors for the development here. Treasury Holdings, Manor Park Homes and CIE have been the names behind Horgan’s Quay most prevailently. However, their intention is primarily focused on the development of a major retail, commercial and residential quarter for the site. The convention centre would be ancillary to this. CCC intend to thus put up a PPP bid on the convention centre project for one of the sites, to be decided upon within the next few months. It is their intention to have the centre up and running by 2007.

The problem with the Showgrounds site, although nicely located on the southern docklands, is that the GAA are aggressively in pursuit of the site to provide new training facilities, an extended stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and possibly a hotel and leisure centre. CCC are said to prefer this proposal (on the grounds PuC is to be redeveloped).

O’Callaghan Properties, who are behind the Mahon Point Convention Centre proposal, say they have been intensively involved in a feasibility study for the past 4 months. Owen O’Callaghan is obliged to provide such a facility under a clause of the sale agreement in which he purchased the Mahon Point lands from CCC. Otherwise he may face a payment to the council of 6m euro. O’Callaghan has said he has no interest in pursuing such a development in the city centre, and wishes to focus on Mahon Point, he noted that viability would be an issue for more than 1 such centre, but said that he knew of a vast interest in such development by other investors.

A landmark facility is, in my knowledge, probably most likely for Horgan’s Quay pending a move by O’Callaghan. CCC said they intend to purge ahead with the tender.

The remaining Horgan’s Quay development proposals incl. a redeveloped rail terminal w/ multistorey car-park and ancillary works. Up to 5000 residential units (over stages), offices, retail centres, leisure amenities (clubs, pubs, gyms etc), a central, landmark plaza, boardwalks and many more. The area is zoned for high-rise development (one Irish Examiner report mentioned buildings scaling between 20 stories). However, no developers have made firm commitals due to the lacklustre of CIE organisational skills. Hmmm.

Unfortunately, my spate with technology has ended in a stalemate, and I have been unable to post the images I attained from ABK Architects of the new 32m euro Cork City Hall Extension, contracted to Cleary Doyle.

As a result, I’ve had to avail of press images (reluctantly) in order to fulfill my promises that I’d get images of the development on site for you as soon as possible. Construction of the extension begins in September.

Once complete, the extension will stretch from Anglesea Street to Eglinton Street and be capable of facilitating ALL CCC departments. In addition, up to 400 car parking spaces will be catered for at basement and roof levels. A new internal pedestrian street will connect the 2 streets between which the development lies. The entire building is naturally ventilated, and although the design is clever, in my opinion, it is sub-par.

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Plus, this is for those of you who had requested a clearer image of the Mahon Point SC development.

Although I haven’t seen the proposed new development for the the Guy and Co. Site, I am aware of the incresed retail aspect in comparison with the previous proposal. I agree with the decison of CCC to reject the aplication for a hotel on the site. This site is instrumental in the revitalisation of the street and I think Higher order retail uses would bring a greater footfall than a hotel in the area.
In the local press in the recent past, Habitat were said to be looking at a number of sites in the city, one in particular the old church site which is connected to the guy and co. site.
Speaking of Heitons I don’t know why they haven’t located on North Main st. Like buy that awful Leaders shop. Its a disgrace that they can have two rundown shop fronts on such an important street. I really can’t inderstand it.
If you think of the retailers which are currently expanding in Ireland you might be able to guess some of the names which could pop up on the Coalquay.
House of Fraiser are opening in Dundrum, a similar sized store. Also when Arrnots was brought private there was talk about another store outside the capital, belfast or cork were mentioned.
THen there is John Lewis which is opening soon in N. Ireland.
Other retailer which I’m just guessing could be interested could be Tk Maxx (already located in Limerick) H+M, Zara and the other inditex chains.
Also tHe carphone warehouse is going to stop trading out of its unit next to roches stores on Patrick street. Big name fashion retailers are rumoured to be looking at the site.

Well first of all CCC didn’t reject the application for the hotel at the Guy & Co site, but it was ABP who made the refusal on a third party appeal by An Taisce and Corporation Housing Residents at the time.

The original hotel plan include 20 retail units with a combined area similar to that of the new plan, so in terms of higher order retail space, the proposal worked in line with the later revised Development Plan – and due to the variety that came with numerous units, a greater retail pull would have ensued. However, a development is only as good as its tenants. If the new propsal manages to attract the significant tenants it requires, it may still do exceedingly well. Under the plans that I am aware of, this looks so pending the correct outcome. And, that ‘church site’ to the rear of the Guy & Co site is actually part of the development site of which Rockfell have been involved in since 1998.

It would be highly unlikely that Zara would locate on Cornmarket Street (unless part of a department store concession) as they are opening their first stand alone store in Mahon Point in Feb 2005 (a Cornmarket Street location would depend highly on the success of their Mahon Point store – I’ve a feeling it will do well). Along with Pull and Bear and Mango (their 2nd Cork store). When Arnotts first issued authorised shares for capital, their expansion plans were limited to Dublin, and ever since, they have concentrated on developing their Henry Street premises, the most recent development being their purchase of the former Irish Independent Building. The particular market associated with Heitons or TK Maxx does not comply with Michael O’Donoghue’s intentions for his Cornmarket Street development – I would think along the lines of a more Brown Thomas-type market were a department store the successful outcome. Failing that, stores like Sisley, Espirit and so on, would be targeted for tenancy. At least, that is the plan – but at the end of the day, these retaillers pave the final decision based on their own plans. H&M would be a fabulous addition to the Irish and in particular, Cork market – but their expansion plans have only ever assessed Ireland, and never acted on them.

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I will provide interested party names when they become available to me, for the Carphone Warehouse premises near Merchants Quay. Nearby, Jump Juice Bars have opened their 2nd store at the Savoy Centre. A start-up Irish company, with their other store in Waterford, have also been trying to attain a Mahon Point outlet, but the SC is apparently fully let at this stage. Jump are based on the Zumo Juice Bars model – but instead of franchising, their growth thus far has been entirely organic (no pun intended).

I was unaware that the overall scale of the retail aspect was to have been the same in the previous proposal. Then I would have to agree with you that it would have been beneficial to the street. I just got the wrong impression from the original proposal that the retail aspect would give us something similar to the savoy centre, with small retail units. That was why I was happier to hear of the overall scale of the retail aspect. 120,000 sq ft I’m trying to picture this size and I think thats double the size of the new tesco store in Wilton. These larger floor plates are exactly what we need in Cork and the rest of the Irish cities to attract the big name retailers.
H+M are opening a store in Dundrum town centre. So at least they are making their first inroads into the Irish market.

On another note, work on Oliver Plunket street is progressing well. Passing through today I could already get a feel for what the street will be like when finished. In the design there was another interesting design for the street lighting. No progress has been made on this front but I am looking forward to seeing them. I just remember talk about them as being able to change colour and being vandle proof. I wonder will they cause as much controversy as the ones on patrick st. Prob not!

*UPDATES*

-> Aldi Stores (Ireland) Developments Ltd have lodged a planning application with Cork City Council (CCC) for the demolition of the existing structures on site at Heiton Buckley premises on Tory Top Rd & the construction of a mixed use development scheme with a total of 2083m2 gross retail floor space, a creche 201m2, play area & 48 no duplex apts. The single storey Aldi Discount Food Store will be complimented by the creche and roof-top play area with the addition of 48 duplexes in six 4-storey blocks. The application represents Aldi’s largest development investment in Ireland so far and represents its plan to fall in line with Council suggestions for increased mixed-use development. This element was previously lacking in many of their other proposals and since has lost both Aldi and Lidl successful planning grants in the past.

Aldi have also lodged applications for 3 more stores in Cork city, besides this development.

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-> A number of high-profile developments in Cork have reached near ‘SOLD OUT’ status before they’ve even been completed, these include O’Callaghan Properties Office Development at 21 Lavitts Quay, John Hornibrook’s apartment development at Camden Quay (Camden Court) and Fleming Construction’s Trinity Court on George’s Quay.

However, even more remarkable, Frinailla Developments project on Grand Parade, the Grand Parade Plaza, has sold almost all of its 50 apartments (starting at 390,000 euros each), with 80% of them going to owner-occupiers, and sold ALL of its underground car-parking spaces (between 70 and 90) at a price-tag of 80,000 euros each. A countrywide record. Furthermore, Atis Harrington-Bannon, estate agents for the retail element of the Plaza, have reported that almost all units have been let, sold or reserved already, all this before the project has even begun primary construction! Demolition activities have already taken place and archaelogical excavations are on-going (they seem to be on-going for months! [sigh]). However, John Paul Construction inform me, they intend to get to real work on the site in the next few weeks, possibly 2 weeks.

The 100m euro City Quarter office development by Howard Holdings on Lapps Quay is currently waiting for a grant of planning by CCC on the addition of another floor to the office element, bringing the building to 6-floors, in line with the Clarion Hotel element next-door. The application has been based on the strong take up and demand for office space within the development. Both Howard Holdings, DTZ Sherry Fitzgearld and Cohalan Downing letting and sale agents for the project are said to be delighted with the response to City Quarter. Howard Holdings intend to make head-way on their Albert Quay office/IT development (just across the river from City Quarter) within the next few weeks.

Just across Clontarf Street, at No.6 Lapps Quay, O’Flynn Construction are on-going with the development of their new office building, designed by Coughlan de Keyser Architects of Washington Street. Foundations are currently being laid, and primary construction is imminent according to the company. Although Lisney and Hamilton Osbourne King (the designated agents for the project) won’t specify the details of sale and letting agreements; I am aware of at least 3 agreements – and I have been informed that the response has been as enthusiastic as that experienced with O’Flynn’s neighbouring office development, No.5 Lapps Quay. It’s an exceptionally positive and encouraging indicator of the Cork office market, which is continuing to buck the national trend. It is a further testament to the fact, the reason many firms and businesses have located to the suburbs and other regions in the past, rather than Cork city centre, has been a distinct availability lack of quality 3rd Generation, sufficiently large office space. This lack is gradually being rectified, and subsequently developers are reaping the rewards of this.

No.6 Lapps Qy 21 Lavitts Qy

mickeydocs – what was on the front page of that classy “news”paper? The link changes everyday (i.e. the current front page)

dallas the echo had an article about the concert/coference venue planned for Cork. There are 3 options, 1 city centre (Horgan’s quay), 1 for the showgrounds, and 1 for Mahon Point. The CCC would prefer the city centre option, but it looks like O’Callaghan is going to push ahead with the Mahon one and there is no economic sense in having 2!

sorry forgot to mention it is supposed be along the same lines as The Point, 5,000 seater.

God I hope it’s in the city centre. Do Cork corporation want the whole feckin city to move out to Douglas/ Mahon are and be totally car dependent?

see the thing is anto as far as I know as part of planning getting approved for the Mahon project O’Callaghan had to build a conference centre along with it. Now he won’t invest in a city centre one as he understandably wants to protect his investment in Mahon. Supposedly plans are fairly advanced!

IMO it might be the best option if we want one in the next 2/3 years. CIE seem to be holding up any development for Horgan’s key every chance they get and the GAA want to buy the Showgrounds so they can do up Pairc Ui Chaoimh, which is badly needed as well.

This is the same argument as Abbotstown – Lansdowne or Spencer Dock – Citiwest. It’s vital that if some form of conference centre is built in Cork it’s in the City Centre rather than in Mahon. Understandably Mr O’Callaghan wants to make the most out of his “mini-America” and make his hotel there more lucrative etc… but Horgans Qy or vicinity of Parc Ui C makes much more sense.

Couldn’t CCC just get him to drop his plans in return for some apartments on the land or something (worst kind of planning I know, but…).

CCC are advocating the Railway Street/Horgan’s Quay site for a new 6000 seat conference/convention centre – a shortlist of developers is currently being considered. I’ll name them as soon as I receive permission from the respective parties involved.

O’Callaghan Properties have a clause in their sale agreement to integrate a convention centre into the Mahon Point development – the agreement knocked IR£4.3m off the sale price – which contested against a higher offer by MacDonald Properties of Scotland of IR£50m for the lands. O’Callaghan and McCarthy Developments paid £41m between them for the Mahon lands. Failure to develop the convention centre requires O’Callaghan Properties to return 6m euros to CCC. O’C Properties are stalling on this one a bit, for internal reasons rather than viability, this is causing some frustration and CCC are anxious to move forward with Railway Street. I’ll be interested to see how involved CIE get in this project – it will be a reflection of their commitment to continuing with Horgan’s Quay.

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Sisk Contractors have been chosen to construct the new Cork School of Music – with an initiation date of September. Although, I had reported this start date in a previous post, there had been some confusion in light of the financial problems experienced by PPP partners Jarvis Plc. It was expected at one point not to begin until Summer 2005, however now, it seems, the Dept. of Education and Jarvis are now both confident in proceeding with the project and will break ground this September. Some minor work has already commenced on the existing school (to face demolition), formal contracts are expected to be signed later this week.

anyone have any information on what the story is with the bank of ireland building that is at the back of the south mall?? saw plans for it ages ago but nothing seems to have happened yet, it has been derelict for years now. The plans looked good though!

That building has been derelict for an incredible 53 years, according to recent press reports. It really is an eyesore. If they can’t renovate it, they should at least paint it.

Another point, Maylor Street is traffic-free between 11am-5pm on Saturdays. However, every Saturday, I can’t believe the number of taxis and cars bullying pedestrians out of the way, between those hours. Does anyone care – where are the traffic wardens/Gardai??

Yes, the former mill to the rear of the Bank of Ireland, on Father Matthew Quay, has been purchased by Tumblegate Ltd. They also own the famour Jacobs On The Mall restaurant along South Mall. Tumblegate were granted permission for a mized retail, restaurant and residential development through renovation and extension of the existing mill but had been waiting on an amendment to the plan from CCC. They have recently received this permission and Joseph Lane Construction containers can been seen outside the premises ready to start construction. Some internal work is being completed first.

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And I agree, taxis and buses are acting unfairly and aggressively toward pedestrians, who have priority, on both Patrick’s Street and Maylor Street. It is a shame on the authorities for not pursuing the offenders for dangerous driving more vigourously.

Lexingon, do you have any further info on Howard Holdings latest proposed development on Alfred Street… this should be a good indication as to what to expect in terms of the regeneration in the area?

I was in the city at the weekend and I must say I am very impressed by the new art gallery in UCC, but very disappointed that this took priority over the greyhound track development. This site is now derelict for over six years. If I recall correctly this site sold for a huge sum. It’s typical of UCC. Their buildings on the Western Road and the Maltings are in very bad shape and at least in need of a lick of paint.

What’s the story with the row of houses across the street from the greyhound track?

Does anyone know what is being built on the Lee Road opposite the Lee Towers?

Number 6 Lapps Quay looks great, and it seems as if it will also revive Clontarf street which is quickly becoming one of the most impressive streets in the city.

On the subject of Taxi drivers in Cork, my impression is that in general (exceptions to every rule of course) they are a disgrace in the city. Their cabs are filthy and they can never seem to queue in any kind of order. They also believe that they can launch into conversations without invitation. CCC should have conditions attached to licensing.

On another topic, Parking should be banned from Pana 24/7 asap.

And I agree, taxis and buses are acting unfairly and aggressively toward pedestrians, who have priority, on both Patrick’s Street and Maylor Street. It is a shame on the authorities for not pursuing the offenders for dangerous driving more vigourously. [/B][/QUOTE]

Howard Holdings have proposed to develop a 15m – 20m euro IT/Office building, 5-stories over basement on Albert Quay. They’ve no project planned for Alfred Street (by the Railway Station) that I am aware of. The Albert Quay office building is being constructed on a site, directly across the river from their City Quarter development, and will incorporate Albert House (the Parking Fines building).

UCC have hired Cumnor Construction to refurbish their buildings at the Lee Maltings (a process in mid-swing). Work on their new 20m euro School of Pharmacy on College Road has begun, with initial clearing taking place currently. Pierse Construction begin primary work at the end of August, early September.

On the Lee Road, UCC have hired Sisk Construction to build the new Environmental Research Institute. Designed by Bucholz McAvoy Architects. The 3-storey, “environmentally friendly” building is at an advance stage, as anyone passing the extensive construction site and tower crane will tell you. The site was donated by CCC.

Work on a 62m euro UCC IT and Computer Centre at the former Greyhound Track on the Western Road is scheduled to begin at a preparitive stage come late 2005, depending on planning.

The houses across the way from the Greyhound Track on the Western Road are mostly in private ownership, there is no real story with them. However the 6 terraced houses at Carmelite Place, which are currently boardered up, were scheduled to be demolished as part of a 4-storey over basement car-park development for 20 student apartments, however planning for this project was refused on grounds of scale and inappropriate use.

No.6 Lapps Quay, along with No.5, City Quarter, the dismal but nonetheless refurbishment Bus Station, the Albert Quay office development, O’Flynn Construction’s major retail/residential development at Eglinton Street, 32m euro City Hall Extension, 60m Cork School of Music, Corbett Bros. Office Development at Copley Street, Howard Holdings’ Copley Hall, the South Infirmary’s new Breast Check Clinic at South Terrace and a number of other major development and rejuvenation projects are really gonna make this area of the city exceptionally attractive now and in the near future. Especially considering, all the above projects lay at the mouth of the new docklands development.

Thanks Lexingotn. So will we finally see the end of those hideous warehouses on Albert Quay?

Any plans yet for the main docklands area next to the Grain Silos?

It’s great that the stench is finally gone from the lee in this area of town. I read somewhere that the docklands area will be suitable for bathers in the next few years. This is hard to believe but fantastic news for this area of Cork.

Has anyone heard anything about a proposed barge commuter service between city hall and Blackrock/Mahon?

I must say that I was very impressed with the rejuvenated Hugeneot district.

I’m also glad to hear that the former Methodist Church facing Waterstones is to get a new lease of life. This is a beautiful period building with immense potential.

Originally posted by lexington
Howard Holdings have proposed to develop a 15m – 20m euro IT/Office building, 5-stories over basement on Albert Quay. They’ve no project planned for Alfred Street (by the Railway Station) that I am aware of. The Albert Quay office building is being constructed on a site, directly across the river from their City Quarter development, and will incorporate Albert House (the Parking Fines building).

UCC have hired Cumnor Construction to refurbish their buildings at the Lee Maltings (a process in mid-swing). Work on their new 20m euro School of Pharmacy on College Road has begun, with initial clearing taking place currently. Pierse Construction begin primary work at the end of August, early September.

On the Lee Road, UCC have hired Sisk Construction to build the new Environmental Research Institute. Designed by Bucholz McAvoy Architects. The 3-storey, “environmentally friendly” building is at an advance stage, as anyone passing the extensive construction site and tower crane will tell you. The site was donated by CCC.

Work on a 62m euro UCC IT and Computer Centre at the former Greyhound Track on the Western Road is scheduled to begin at a preparitive stage come late 2005, depending on planning.

The houses across the way from the Greyhound Track on the Western Road are mostly in private ownership, there is no real story with them. However the 6 terraced houses at Carmelite Place, which are currently boardered up, were scheduled to be demolished as part of a 4-storey over basement car-park development for 20 student apartments, however planning for this project was refused on grounds of scale and inappropriate use.

No.6 Lapps Quay, along with No.5, City Quarter, the dismal but nonetheless refurbishment Bus Station, the Albert Quay office development, O’Flynn Construction’s major retail/residential development at Eglinton Street, 32m euro City Hall Extension, 60m Cork School of Music, Corbett Bros. Office Development at Copley Street, Howard Holdings’ Copley Hall, the South Infirmary’s new Breast Check Clinic at South Terrace and a number of other major development and rejuvenation projects are really gonna make this area of the city exceptionally attractive now and in the near future. Especially considering, all the above projects lay at the mouth of the new docklands development.

Does anyone know what they have done to the river to make it smell better? I heard rumours months ago that they had done a cleanup on the lake by Park Ui Chaoimh and were doing the same to the river but never heard the details – something about friendly bacteria I think.

Originally posted by corkdood
Does anyone know what they have done to the river to make it smell better? I heard rumours months ago that they had done a cleanup on the lake by Park Ui Chaoimh and were doing the same to the river but never heard the details – something about friendly bacteria I think.

in case u you have nt noticed over the last couple of years the whole city has been up in a heap with roads being dug up and services been relaid esb, gas and also sewage drains, these drains would have orginially drained straight into the river, venice styleee, and thus the river lee like so many othere cities looked dirty and smelled quite bad

see below and follow this link

http://www.corkcorp.ie/maps/drainage.html

Cork City’s waterways are one of its defining features. The River Lee separates into two channels to form the Central Island of the City. Since the foundation of the City, Cork’s sewage has discharged untreated into these channels. Each day 13 million gallons of raw sewage and polluted water flow into the River Lee and Lough Mahon, completely untreated. This is unacceptable for a modern City in the new millennium. Approximately £20 million has been spent on the City’s drainage system over a twenty year period prior to 1997, constructing sewers to intercept the numerous outfalls discharging to the river. This investment moved the point of discharge of the sewage downstream of the City centre. The City’s sewage now discharges through two main outfall points at Horgan’s Quay and Kennedy Quay.

Sorry I have to laugh… hahahaha.

That little Main Drainage thing…

There seems to be a lot of activity in UCC. I remember plans being mentioned for the Boole – anyone got pics or specs? I really like the Boole as is – so imposing. Will the plans interfere, or are they conentrated within the quarry behind?

I’m well aware of the main drainage scheme but the river is dirty and smelly well above that sewage outfall point.

I think the lake by Park Ui Chaoimh is called Lough Mahon – they’ve done a great job on that. i suppose its easier with a lake compared to a river.

two words corkdood:

THE TIDE

I think the lake by Park Ui Chaoimh is called Lough Mahon

It’s called Atlantic pond. That whole area, including the land on which Pairc Ui Chaoimh built, was a mud flat before being reclaimed from the River Lee when a dyke (now called The Marina road) was built sometime in the 19 century. It was a part of route for the old Cork, Blackrock & Passage Railway line.

In the Cork City Council masterplan for the area there’s a proposal of developing the pond into a marina, and of

harnessing opportunity for recreation and water activities through the introduction of a new internal dock and potential marina, and the establishment of an internal waterway corridor extending through the area towards Atlantic Pond

I think this could be great for the area, as its so under-utilised at present.

The value of the Cork Main Drainage Scheme is actually in excess of 100m euro. The stench eminated from raw waste being dumped into the Lee, this, as of from the end of this month will now all be treated by the 20m euro Sewerage Treatment Plant on Little Island – as well as certain explusions from harbour region industrial plants. This will bring the Lee to EU bathing standards. Any remaining dirt in the Lee is now ‘simply’ related to inconsiderate and careless individuals, river bed movement, upper stream contamination (which will now be service by a new treatment facility near the Shornaugh River mouth before it enters the city) and shopping trolleys it would seem.

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UCC have applied for a 5579m sq Boole Library extension to the southern elevation. The 5-storey extension will utilise the old quarry site at this elevation (currently a student recreation point and theatre entrance). The library will in the majority be designated for Postgraduate use. The main library will undergo an extensive refurbishment and modernisation in-line with the new building. The project, currently in planning, will cost an estimate 33.5m euros. The architects behind the development are Wilson Architecture of Cook Street, Cork.

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UCC have applied for a 5902m sq Boole Library extension

Any idea of who the architects are for this lexington?

Yeah Craig, Wilson Architecture. (I just edited that in up above – forgot it earlier.)

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*UPDATES*

UCC are to apply to construct a new 7m euro National Microtechnology Research Centre.

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In addition ->

Here’s an image of the new ERI building, currently under construction along the Lee Road. It’s not the best, so I’ll have more up in the future if possible.

Anyone further interested in the Boole Library extension may find this link insightful -> http://www.sconul.ac.uk/pubs_stats/newsletter/30/5.RTF

*UPDATES*

🙂 A new Bowen Construction tower crane has been erected today over the No.6 Lapps Quay office development site. Construction has been sub-contracted to Bowen by O’Flynn Construction who will concentrate their construction resources primarily at the Ballincollig Town Centre site. The new crane adds another progressive puncture to Cork’s already dotted skyline and hearlds the beginning of primary construction on the No.6 Lapps Quay project.

🙂 Howard Holdings have erected a large advertising banner on the river-side, southern elevation of their City Quarter office development. The sign reads “60,000sq ft to Let/for Sale”. Though this sign does not mean all that such space is available (and I am informed many deals have already been struck for the development tenancy), even if it did, it still means well over 1/2 of the entire development has been let or sold already. However the addition of a further office floor shows that Howard Holdings are already responding to the demand displayed for the project.

Sorry to hear about Sir Henry’s. I was in Cork for the first time in about 5 years some weeks ago, and did not notice a huge amount of different development – compared to Dublin – with the exception of Patrick Street which was then not finished, and had some construction work to be done. No cranes dotted the city. I did see the new building at UCC, the student’s uniion I think. ( i was in Cork for a day only, so I have have missed stuff)

Reading this thread, it seems there is a lot of development to come. I am wondering, however, if this is not all a bit late in the day? The property boom cannot continue forever;property prices may crash and will certainly level, what then of the massive development planned for Cork?

And why does Cork need all this retail and office development now, when there was no need for it at the height of the boom years? Is there really the increases in population we have seen in Dublin – most migration – internal within Ireland and external into Ireland – is to Dublin.

Did the old railway from passage terminate at Kent or beforehand on the southern quays!?! a couple of years ago i was home and noticed on the ring road to the lee tunnel an old single track rail bridge. i took a look at a map and saw there is still most of the track bed intact. with all this development, you would think someone would realise the potential for trams like luas or light rail (arrow) between the city centre and suburbs.
as for the development being too much too late, i would disagree. its good to see cork changing and i guess the boom is a memory so now it seems its just business and building!!! one thing to consider i guess is traffic and transportation needs to be addressed before cork wakes up to the nightmare that is dublin city traffic!!!
cheers lexington for all the news – other side of the world and i couldnt ask for a better source … slan

Posted by asdasd

Sorry to hear about Sir Henry’s. I was in Cork for the first time in about 5 years some weeks ago, and did not notice a huge amount of different development – compared to Dublin – with the exception of Patrick Street which was then not finished, and had some construction work to be done. No cranes dotted the city. I did see the new building at UCC, the student’s uniion I think. ( i was in Cork for a day only, so I have have missed stuff)

First of all, I personally was glad to see Henrys’ removal. Besides the appalling structural maintainence of the premises, poor management and nurture of a large proportion of the Cork rave drug scene – the nightclub was more legend than substance. Were the nightclub as great as its so called ‘die-hard’ fans claim – they would never have abandoned the club in light of its increasingly dilapidated premises, failure to modernize, contemporize and poor strategic handling evident in its organisation. The moaners and pallbearers who claim the club’s nirvanic past have more exaggerated nostalgia than clear cut memories. The fact is the club and Grand Parade Hotel had to abandon its operations due to poor fiscal return down to declining customer base. So, if the club was so great, it’s longing fans would have remained rigidly loyal in the first place. Their actions are the result of realisation with respect to a poor premises and longing for something better. The club’s closure is a direct reflection of this and it’s failure to adapt.

Second, clearly asdasd you failed to look to far around you on your visit. That said, on my regular commutes to Dublin from Cork, I would fail to recognise many significant changes to the Dublin landscape bar say O’Connell Street or George’s Quay but for the fact I am already familiar with the Dublin landscape. The only other eye opener would be the presence of a tower crane for example. Similar, in Cork, the change is most prevailent with its dwellers who are clearly familiar with its landscape and more aware of what was, is and will be. However some changes are hard not to recognise – City Quarter for example, 21 Lavitts Quay, Blackpool Retail Centre and Park etc. And if you visited UCC, how could you fail to notice mammoth changes like the new Glucksman Gallery? Biosciences Building? Medical Building? Student Plaza???

Reading this thread, it seems there is a lot of development to come. I am wondering, however, if this is not all a bit late in the day? The property boom cannot continue forever;property prices may crash and will certainly level, what then of the massive development planned for Cork?

Unlike places like Dublin, Cork missed the main property wave – and is now riding it on it’s own terms. This is unique. The reason being that Cork has historically lacked the same investment evident in other Irish cities – this has created a huge backlog in demand. The reason Patrick’s Street rents equal those of Grafton Street (see Mango, Monsoon, Clinton Cards, TJS, River Island, Vero Moda etc) and the average Cork city centre private car parking space = 65000euro versus Dublin’s average of 45000euro is because demand has far exceeded supply. Developers first off the mark can take advantage of this demand before its caught up by supply. Remember, Cork’s metropolitan area homes 450,000 people and serves an additional 150,000. Were investment, sometimes in frustration with the lak of supply, traditionally went elsewhere, not all such investment is lured away for long due to the temptation of exploiting such huge market potential. With a current 3.1billion euros in private investment finding its way to Cork, a further 2.7billion euros at planning and much more on the way, supply is slowly freeing up to meet this demand.

And why does Cork need all this retail and office development now, when there was no need for it at the height of the boom years? Is there really the increases in population we have seen in Dublin – most migration – internal within Ireland and external into Ireland – is to Dublin.

As mentioned above, the historical lack of open-plan retail space has created a huge backlog in demand. The massive market potential has been realised at a national and international level – this may be verified by the fact that, for example, Debenhams chose to locate their 2nd Irish store in Cork over an additional store in Dublin. And why both B&Q and Zara signed papers for Cork locations before further deals were struck for increased store numbers in Dublin. The lack of retail space is gradually being rectified but there is still a massive demand for further retail space in the city centre. Remember, the city acts to serve up 550,000 people. The 2nd largest concentration in the country.
The same rules apply to office space. The new supply has helped the Cork office take-up of 3rd generation facilities out-perform that of any other Irish city. In fact, as of Feb 2005 (the end of tax designation for IFSC), at least 3 companies in the IFSC and surrounding areas have quietly signed papers to open options on transferring their Irish operations to the Cork city region – most notably the Docklands area. This is attributable to the more affordable social, operational and economic costs in Cork of running these businesses.

And why does Cork need all this retail and office development now, when there was no need for it at the height of the boom years? Is there really the increases in population we have seen in Dublin – most migration – internal within Ireland and external into Ireland – is to Dublin.

Cork needs this development to cater to the demand back-log – its not so much that Cork ‘needs’ it, which it does, but more down to the fact that there is a huge market demand in the city from years of investment lack, and now developers are taking advantage of that. As mentioned, Cork has outperformed all other Irish cities in its take-up of 3rd generation offices over the past 12 months and this looks set to continue in light of a continuing demand locally and nationally. Especially as Dublin becomes increasingly expensive to operate within – undoubtedly a partial factor. Furthermore, the vast majority of population increases within the Pale Region have not been within Dublin but in fact it’s hinterland, such as Meath, Wicklow, Louth and Kildare. In fact, their has been outward migration from Dublin – though I acknowledge the fact that it is Dublin which is loci to these migrants’ activities. Though, due to lack of development, Cork city centre’s population declined – its hinterland population increased exponentially. The lack of supply made city centre living exceptionally expensive in Cork. Numerous new developments are helping see the in-flow of new residents back into the city centre once again, however metropolitan development and population growth remains strong at 10% p.a. growth. However, the development in Cork is more to do with demand rather than population. I believe you are forgetting the simple laws of economics.

Lastly, as an individual with a strong personal and investment attachment to Dublin I can say with a clear conscience, that their is an unforgivable arrogance among many Dubliners that their Earth sees the Sun revolve around them. I highly resent that. Remember 39% of our GNP may be attributable to Dublin based economic activities, but 61% comes from the rest of the country. Considering Dublin’s population and administritive prowess, that is a huge figure and shows a huge dependence on the rest of the country’s economic well being. I think that is too often forgotten. My interest in Dublin is important to me, but as many developers like Howard Holdings, O’Flynn Construction, O’Callaghan Properties, Treasury Holdings and so on will tell you, their success in Cork for example has shown that the real smarts don’t follow the fattest rat. They follow the golden one. With returns nationally reaching an average of 40% versus Dublin’s ever declining marginal return average of 27% – I’d stick with the gold.

Thanks Lexington. You’ve convinced me that the late development in Cork makes sense, due to pent up demand.

I understand Cork fairly well, having lived there – in the City centre – for 4 years. My visit to UCC was on business so I had no time to sight see.

I still think that Dublin, during it first stage of it’s redevelopment boom, had made more progress, but it had more progress to make – much of it was derelict, before, while the City Centre in Cork was not. Remember Bachelor’s walk, and surrounding areas, and Temple bar before the redo. Gardiner street, the Docklands. I could go on.

The centre of Cork never had these problems, with most of the social problems in the ‘burbs – Knocknaheeney, for instance – and even there, never as bad as Dublin at it’s worst.

So I suppose it could not be changed as much. I would like to see more buildings on the quays, and that bus station redone. And I really dislke Merchants Quay and the way it ignores the river.

Some development of the opposite side of the quays there would be nice, too.

I do accept your point – I can remember a time when traversing Bachelor’s Walk was almost humiliating. It’s nice to see it move up and the boardwalk helps it no end. Street-scapes should open up as a positive public space and embrace pedestrian life and all its facets with a pleasant and comfortable environment.

I completely agree also that Cork needs to utilise its quays a great deal more. There is so much more potential for it. However, I do think that’s the idea with more and more projects like 21 Lavitts Quay, Albert Quay Office Development and new Irish Examiner HQ. The good news is, there are many more plans for the Cork quays in the near future which I’ll post info on as soon as I’m permitted to. MQ is a very negatively shaped and designed construct indeed. It is currently undergoing a 7m euro refurbishment, but few of this contributes toward improving the Northern, Western and Eastern elevations. This is quite a shame because a little imagination could work wonders for the building. Positively however, the Bus Station is being redeveloped, with Ridge Developments currently on-site. Patrick’s Quay (opposite MQ), with the exception of the Metropole Multi-Storey, has seen little development of late, which is a great shame. But I am informed of a plan involving a major institution on MacCurtain Street which is at preplanning. The project will stem back onto Patrick’s Quay with a strong emphasis on the river and natural light – it will incorporate a new late-night lounge bar & restaurant overlooking the Lee from an elevatd position, extended seating, private venue room, quay-side retail units, offices and possibly a nightclub (but I assume this will be incorporated into the Lounge Bar). The project is being privately funded and will provide a new face for Patrick’s Quay. I’ve made no formal update for this as there are no formal plans or announcements – predominantly speculation in development circles. More on that as I get it.

*UPDATES*

These are images of the Phillisview Properties Ltd development at Washington Street West (at the corner of Sharman Crawford Bridge) overlooking the Lee. This small but pretty project incorporates 9 two-bedroom apartments and 2 retail/office units at ground floor. The design is by Curtin McGuinness and Grean (CMG) Architects, with Ridge Developments as the main contractor. I genuinely like this very pleasant project.

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Another design by CMG (HMG) Architects in Cork is that of the new development at George’s Quay by CNM Developments. The project, due for completion mid to late September, has been named Trinity Court and it incorporates 64 apartments, offices and a public house. Fleming Construction are main contractors.

Lexington. Not sure if you’ve covered this in earlier postings but do you know what plans there are for hotel developments in Ballincollig? I know there is a site earmarked for a hotel beside the O’Flynns town centre development and over the weekend I noticed major works are ongoing at Oriel House.

There was also meant to be a hotel site opposite the White Horse Inn but that seems to be changed now as a sign indicates that the land is to be used for industrial units. However that being said the site was playing host to a circus at the weekend so they seem to be in no rush!

Finally I heard many months ago that Ben Dunne was planning to open a chain of gyms/leisure centres around the country including a facility at Ballincollig. Any progress on this?

I LOVE that development at Sharman Crawford Bridge! Mainly because I know that tiny site and am amazed and delighted something is being done there.
Not sure about Trinity Court though…

I think the development at Sharman Crawford St is fantastic! From the renderings it looks as if it will make a great contribution to the aesthetic quality of the area. Also it takes advantage of its riverside location by providing open space in the form of a mini boardwalk.

The work on the Oriel house hotel is due to be completed in 2005 and it will bring the hotel to a four star standard with a leisure centre part of the development.

I think Lidl have been rejected for planning permission on the site you refered to, across from the White Horse. So the hotel plan is obviously gone out the window.

The site that Ben Dunne wants to build his fitness centre is on the vacant site across from teh Flor Griffin Store. There were rumours that this site was originally supposed to play host to a childrens playground ( There currently isn’t any in the town with a pop. in excess of 16,000 people) But maybe the council thought Ben Dunnes proposal too good to refuse

Originally posted by lexington
*UPDATES*

These are images of the Phillisview Properties Ltd development at Washington Street West (at the corner of Sharman Crawford Bridge) overlooking the Lee.

Another design by CMG (HMG) Architects in Cork is that of the new development at George’s Quay by CNM Developments. The project, due for completion mid to late September, has been named Trinity Court and it incorporates 64 apartments, offices and a public house. Fleming Construction are main contractors.

Both of those developments look good, the standard of the montages is also very good. I am sure they will be a commercial success although the Name Trinity Court puts me off, a certain facility on Dublins Pearse St has the same name. 😉

The 250 staff at Jutys hotel are to lose their jobs, as the hotel is to be demolished in February. A six-storey, 185 bedroom hotel will be built there by O’Callaghan properties, and leased back to Jurys. It will be ready in about 2 years.

Yeah, this is an accurate report – but it wasn’t supposed to be officially made until Wednesday. Nonetheless, as it is out now, you may as well know, Jury’s 4-acre hotel site was sold to O’Callaghan Properties for 30m euros almost 2 months ago. It is the company’s intention over the next 2 years (planning pending) to redevelop the site with a 185 bed hotel and conference centre, 300 apartments, 450 underground car parking spaces, and various ancillary services. Jury’s will lease back the new 4-star hotel over a 35 year lease agreement with an expected rent of over 2.1m a year. Though I was aware that this deal and development had taken place over the original plan (see previous posts), the loss of 250 jobs over the developments 2 year period is news to me. It had been my understanding that Jury’s intended to offer temporary posts to staff at other locations throughout the country or offer extended paid leave over successive periods. However, though it is always unpleasant to see job losses, if any consolation is to be taken by staff, it should be taken in the fact that a number of large scale hotel developments are now coming to fruition throughout the city and hotel service employment will be freely available – with the Hilton Hotel at Mahon Point, Clarion on Lapps Quay, Radisson Park Manor at Little Island, Marriott (rumoured) at Ballincollig Town Centre, Oriel also in Ballincollig, extended Maryborough House Hotel, and new 50m euro extension to the Kingsley Hotel at Victoria Cross. In addition, the new Jurys will create 300 new jobs (with 600+ more jobs created during construction of the new development which will be undertaken by Bowen Construction).

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Further to corkdood’s questions, O’Flynn Constrution have secured a tenant for their new hotel. The name will be released soon (although I may have just leaked it in the report above – clumsy! But remember, it is only a rumour I have heard. Other likely candidates are Lynch Hotels and O’Donoghue/Ring).

Thanks satanta99 & lexington for the information

This is a superb development site, and I hope the new building doesn’t obscure the view of St. Finbarr’s as much as the existing building.

Are the plans tasteful in design?

Any indication as to Fleming’s plans with the Tramore Road site (adjacent to Turner’s Cross)?

Originally posted by lexington
Yeah, this is an accurate report – but it wasn’t supposed to be officially made until Wednesday. Nonetheless, as it is out now, you may as well know, Jury’s Hotel site was sold to O’Callaghan Properties for 3m euros almost 2 months ago. It is the company’s intention over the next 2 years (planning pending) to redevelop the site with a 185 bed hotel and conference centre, 300 apartments, 450 underground car parking spaces, and various ancillary services. Jury’s will lease back the new 4-star hotel over a 35 year lease agreement with an expected rent of over 2.1m a year. Though I was aware of that this deal and development had taken in place over the original plan (see previous posts), the loss of 250 jobs over the developments 2 year period is news to me. It had been my understanding that Jury’s intended to offer temporary posts to staff at other locations throughout the country or offer extended paid leave over successive periods. However, this understanding would seem is inaccurate. I have to say that I am very disappointed with Jury’s strategy. This development could easily have continued without such substantial losses of employment. However, the construction of the project will create 400 temporary jobs and the new 6-storey hotel will facilitate a further 320 jobs in the long-run. A mixed day for Cork development.

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Further to corkdood’s questions, O’Flynn Constrution have secured a tenant for their new hotel. The name will be released soon.

Hurrah! Good riddance to Jurys. The lingering smell of vomit in the function room will not be missed.

Not to mention their antiquated leisure centre with its swimming pool which was half indoor and half outdoor

Jury’s used to be great for free parking in the city.

QUOTE]Originally posted by corkdood
Not to mention their antiquated leisure centre with its swimming pool which was half indoor and half outdoor [/QUOTE]

A planning application for the Jury’s Hotel Site is expected to be lodged with CCC by the end of this week/early next week. I will provide a more accurate outline of the project when possible, will some images I intend to obtain. Bowen Group will provide construction, which, planning pending, is scheduled for Spring 2005. With first phase residential and hotel completion ready by Summer 2006. Est. value = 160m euros. I’ll announce the architects for this project a.s.a.p.

Although the hotel and parking elements of this project are favourable, I remain mildly sceptical about the residential element of this project. Usually I get a lot more excited on these things, but something is just not sitting right with me about this. Hopefully this will be rectified on closer inspection.

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*UPDATES*

🙂 Howard Holdings have been granted planning permission for the addition of a further floor on their City Quarter office development currently under construction at Lapps Quay.

*UPDATES*

Further to previous reports, Sean Meehan, a private developer, has applied for Outline Permission on the development of a 3-level multi-storey car-park, commercial units, vehicular bridge access and ancillary facilities at Grenville Place – a very prominent, river-side location at the western end of Bachelors Quay, beside the Mercy University Hospital – who have been given the go ahead for a new A&E department. It will be interesting to see how this permission turns out considering the location. The architect is John Paul Lennon.

Today’s Irish Examiner has a nice photomontage of the proposed Jury’s mentioned above.

Looks vastly better than what’s currently on site…

any chance of getting the picture on here??

I obtained a set of CG images from both the developer, O’Callaghan Properties, and the project architect, Finghin Curraoin of Henry J. Lyons & Associates – but they are currently in a format I’m having trouble converting. So in the meantime, here is a press image of the 160m euro Jury’s Hotel site redevelopment on the Western Road/Lancaster Quay – which will consist of a 4-star 185 bedroom hotel with over 10,000sq ft conference facilities and leisure facilities, a public amenity plaza, riverside boardwalk, 300 luxury 1, 2 & 3-bedroom apartments, 2 new bridges (1 pedestrian, 1 vehicular) and 450 undergound car-parking spaces. Contractors will be Bowen Construction, and planning pending, the project is set to go for Spring 2005 with a Summer 2006 completion date.

The design is tasteful, but nothing remarkable. It shows a continued trend with O’Callaghan Properties of late to work toward more tastefully designed projects. Though I still feel a little anxious about the residential element of the development, the design and application have allayed some of this anxiety.

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*UPDATES*

:rolleyes:ABP have granted permission following appeal for 2 student accomodation developments at Victoria Cross.

The 1st is Paul Montgomery/Edmund Kenneally’s extension of their 59 apartment, 9-storey Victoria Hall designed by Derek Tynan and being constructed by the Bowen Group. The extension will create 60 additional bed spaces to the near complete main development – seeing the demolition of the existing petrol station and construction of a 4-storey over basement car-park building with ground floor commercial unit. (see previous posts)

The 2nd is a student development designed by Bertie Pope and Associates and being developed by Fleming Construction on behalf of UCC. Permission was granted for the demolition of existing warehouses on site and the construction of 60 no. student apartments in five/six storey blocks consisting of 3/ 4 & 5 study bedrooms per apartments to accommodate 255 students,
62 no. car parking spaces at basement level, Wardens Apartment, Management Suite containing Reception, Seminar Room and Offices, 200sq.m. café/shop & 3 no. Commercial/Retail units 200sq.m. in total, laundry and other ancillary facilities and full site development at the former M & P Cash & Carry premises on Victoria Road, Cork.

Just nearby, Rathmelton Investments were set to begin on a colossal student project, in addition to the 82-bedroom and offices extension of their Kingsley Hotel, with 116 student apartments in a series of 5-storey interlinked blocks and a dual basement car-park with 740 spaces. Design is by Murray O’Laoire (see previous post) – it is believed now however that this student element will not proceed.

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I noticed that the carphone warehouse outlet next to Roches stores has a deal agreed notice on it? I wonder who will take over the lease?
I am happy to hear that the days of the present Jurys Hotel are numbered! It is horrible! Does anyone remember when it was painted pink?
I’m really starting to get worried about that 9story block of student accomodation going up in Victoria mills! I think its goina look awful! Maybe when the scaffolding comes down and when we will be able to get a holistic vista it might be okay!

*UPDATES*

🙂 Cork’s popular arthouse cinema, the Kino, has applied for permission to demolish its existing cinema on Washington Street and construct 3 new cinemas on seperate upper-storeys each and with a ground-floor restaurant. All the cinemas’ surrounding lanes will be adjusted to cater for this development. Architects are Dennehy + Dennehy.

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🙂 J.D. Hotels Ltd. have lodged an application to develop a 4 – 5 storey restaurant and bar w/ ancillary offices complex at 77/78 Grand Parade and 1 – 9 Tobin Street. The project will see the demolition of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 & 9 Tobin Street, demolition of 78 Grand Parade and retention/refurbishment of 78 Grand Parade – which will be incorporated into the new building.

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:confused: For anyone interested in Sean Meehan’s parking and commercial development at Grenville Place, near the Mercy Hospital – believe it or not, the plan includes the construction of a vehicular access bridge off the Grenville Place Quay, which will then loop back into the quay wall into the development which is planned to be constructed 3-levels under the ground and river. Commercial units will also be part of the project composition. More on this development as soon as it is clarified by the developer. I will update accordingly.

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😡 And yes satanta – Victoria Mills is no pretty picture.

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🙁 On an inspection today of both John Mannix’s 7-storey retail/office and residential development for 41-44 Washington Street (designed by Dermot Coveney of Coveney & Assoc.) I have to say, it is certainly curious. The design is initially unappealling. It resembles close to nothing on the street with a blend of dark, steely green, red, blue and white colourings. A huge 3 storey, rectangular bay window graces the highly prominent corner, from street level up, and the 5th and 6th floors are stepped back. Although I must say, the more one looks at the design, the more it grows on you. It has an arrogant beauty about it and is unashamedly loud. With the exception of the boxy roof (distasteful), one starts to think, this could be what Cork – and more notably, Washington Street, needs, a loud and proud design. In context, the corner bay windows would light up the street and give it a modern edge, but I really wish something would be done to amend the roof.

By contrast, where the previous Rockfell proposal for Cornmarket Street had a sense of class and post-modern, symmetrical grace to it (designed by Frank Ennis & Assoc), the current proposal (though 6 storeys, is not short off the prev. proposal height of 9-storeys), the new proposal is a modern monstrosity of epic proportions, it is also, oddly, designed by Niall Coffey of Frank Ennis & Assoc. It is strange to think how such a monster could come from the same house as the previous classic. Though I support the development, Cork is truly getting a lesser option in comparison to the original. It is essentially a left-over and I rue the day ABP refused the original proposal. It is a true shame in the context of what is to come.

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Meanwhile, O’Callaghan Properties lodged their application (under the name Riga Ltd) for planning on the site of the Jurys Hotel along the Western Road. A correction to media reports, the apartment element ranges between 6 – 9 storeys high. And there will be 303 apartments and a 182 bedroom hotel. At least this 9-storey apartment building has an element of design to it, versus Victoria Hall. For design of the 160m euro project, see previous post.

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Finally, for those who requested images of the Grand Parade Plaza, retail and residential development by Frinailla. Here are 2. The first is the Grand Parade elevation, the second is the prespective from South Main Street. Design is by Richard Rainey & Assoc. Contractors are John Paul Construction.

🙁 After the recent, refusal for Lidl GmbH to construct new storesat Churchfield and Ballincollig in Cork, Aldi’s proposed store at Fitz’s Boreen in Blackpool, Cork comes as a further blow to the discount food merchants in the city. Aldi also had a refusal of a store in Ballincollig recently. There is clearly a ‘un-right’ in all of this that must be addressed. Aldi await the decision for the proposed mixed used 48-apartment, retail centre, creche, play facility and discount food store at Tory Top Road in Cork meanwhile.

Can anyone list the proposed list of developments for Grand Parade and provide a little info into each.

What’s happening with the redevelopment of the Parade?

😉 A number of projects are taking place in and around Grand Parade at present and are planned for the future. Grand Parade has always been a traditionally important and vibrant Cork main street and has been earmarked as an important natural progression of the existing Patrick’s Street commerical core – along with Cornmarket Street.

-> First, is the Grand Parade redevelopment, which has already begun its first phase, between Daunt Sqaure and Finns Corner, which is scheduled for a late September completion. The redevelopment has been designed by Beth Gali, who also designed the Patrick’s Street and Oliver Plunkett Street refurbishments and whom has been hired to begin design on the entire length of Grand Parade (schedule for initiation is as yet unknown).

-> A number of commercial developments are embracing the Grand Parade area. Most notably the Grand Parade Plaza retail and residential development (see post above for images) on the site of the old Grand Parade Hotel linked to South Main Street. The project consists of a 7-storey over basement building designed by Richard Rainey – holding 50 apartments, incl. 3 roof-top penthouses, communal ‘sky-gardens’ throughout, a retail mall and underground car-parking. Almost ALL apartments (starting at 369,000 up) and ALL parking spaces (80,000 each) have been sold at this point.

-> J.D. Hotels Ltd, have applied to demolish the buildings at Singers Corner (except number 77 which will be refurbished) and along 1 – 9 Tobin’s Lane with a view to constructing a 4-storey late-night bar and restaurant w/ ancillary offices (see prev. post for more details).

-> The English Market is due for a renewal in the near future.

-> Not far from Grand Parade, John Mannix is awaiting a decision on a 7-storey over basement residential, retail and office development at 40-42 Washington Street.

-> At 50 Grand Parade, the Kenny Group is planning a mixed use, 7-storey development of 22-bedroom hotel, 35 duplexes, 141 multi-storey car-parking, retail centre, office development, cantiviliered boardwalk, 2 superpubs, restaurants and cafes – designed by RKD McCarthy and on the site of the former Citi Car Park (oddly re-opened for use not so long ago after a planning amendment to the project was withdrawn). I will update you on this when I can.

-> On Tobin Lane, the Triskel Arts Centre is currently undergoing a renovation and expansion. Cumnor Construction are on site.

-> But the ‘big-one’, is that which is in the pipeline for the 30,000 sq ft Capitol Cineplex site at the Grand Parade/Washington Street junction. (see previous post on this topic for more details). An announcement is expected on this site when Ward Anderson announce their relocation to the new 11-screen multiplex at the Mahon Point SC, late this September.

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*UPDATES*

:rolleyes: CCC have today received the Further Information they requested from Rockfell Investments regarding the major Cornmarket Street department store/residential development. A decision is now expected within 1 month.

Thanks as always Lexington.

The parade is my favourite street in Cork, and I believe it has incredible potential. This street could become our first boulevard if developed correctly (and the traffic redirected of course. The national monument, the english market, the peace park and the width of the street all add to the streets wonderful feel. Unfortunately it has been a wip for far too long.

Singers Corner brings the whole street down and most would be glad to see this deconstructed and replaced (the georgian society will probably be up in arms again). Tobins Lane has also got great potential and I’m glad the Triskel are pumping some money into this site.

On another topic, can we petition anyone to have that hideous portacabin removed from Patrick street.

Originally posted by lexington
😉 A number of projects are taking place in and around Grand Parade at present and are planned for the future. Grand Parade has always been a traditionally important and vibrant Cork main street and has been earmarked as an important natural progression of the existing Patrick’s Street commerical core – along with Cornmarket Street.

-> First, is the Grand Parade redevelopment, which has already begun its first phase, between Daunt Sqaure and Finns Corner, which is scheduled for a late September completion. The redevelopment has been designed by Beth Gali, who also designed the Patrick’s Street and Oliver Plunkett Street refurbishments and whom has been hired to begin design on the entire length of Grand Parade (schedule for initiation is as yet unknown).

-> A number of commercial developments are embracing the Grand Parade area. Most notably the Grand Parade Plaza retail and residential development (see post above for images) on the site of the old Grand Parade Hotel linked to South Main Street. The project consists of a 7-storey over basement building designed by Richard Rainey – holding 50 apartments, incl. 3 roof-top penthouses, communal ‘sky-gardens’ throughout, a retail mall and underground car-parking. Almost ALL apartments (starting at 369,000 up) and ALL parking spaces (80,000 each) have been sold at this point.

-> J.D. Hotels Ltd, have applied to demolish the buildings at Singers Corner (except number 77 which will be refurbished) and along 1 – 9 Tobin’s Lane with a view to constructing a 4-storey late-night bar and restaurant w/ ancillary offices (see prev. post for more details).

-> The English Market is due for a renewal in the near future.

-> Not far from Grand Parade, John Mannix is awaiting a decision on a 7-storey over basement residential, retail and office development at 40-42 Washington Street.

-> At 50 Grand Parade, the Kenny Group is planning a mixed use, 7-storey development of 22-bedroom hotel, 35 duplexes, 141 multi-storey car-parking, retail centre, office development, cantiviliered boardwalk, 2 superpubs, restaurants and cafes – designed by RKD McCarthy and on the site of the former Citi Car Park (oddly re-opened for use not so long ago after a planning amendment to the project was withdrawn). I will update you on this when I can.

-> On Tobin Lane, the Triskel Arts Centre is currently undergoing a renovation and expansion. Cumnor Construction are on site.

-> But the ‘big-one’, is that which is in the pipeline for the 30,000 sq ft Capitol Cineplex site at the Grand Parade/Washington Street junction. (see previous post on this topic for more details). An announcement is expected on this site when Ward Anderson announce their relocation to the new 11-screen multiplex at the Mahon Point SC, late this September.

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*UPDATES*

:rolleyes: CCC have today received the Further Information they requested from Rockfell Investments regarding the major Cornmarket Street department store/residential development. A decision is now expected within 1 month.

Yet another addition to the Section 50 market in Cork city – Frank Sheahan’s 15 apartment development on Lynch’s Street (just off Little Hanover Street and Sheare’s Street) has been officially launched. The new student accomodation building is being constructed by P.J. Hegarty’s and was designed by Jack Coughlan and Associates on the site of the former Club FX nightclub. Each apartment contains between 3 & 4 bedrooms, parking is provided at a basement level for vehicles and bicycles. The ground floor will act as a commercial facility in conjunction with a bar/nightclub extention.

This development, and considering the history behind it’s incarnation, speaks little to me to say the least. Unimpressive as it may be, it still makes the Victoria Mills student development look like an accident.

Frank Sheahan’s other large development at the moment, the Section 23 office development along the Blackpool By-pass, also designed by Jack Coughlan and constructed by P.J. Hegarty at least has a bit more panache to it.

Regarding what area?

Originally posted by lexington
**BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO BE MADE SOON!**

Hmmm – looking forward to that BIG announcement, Lexington.

Regarding that vile Portakabin, I have a bad feeling that it will be there forever. Why can’t these guys just have a ‘base’ at the bus station and be done with it? They’ve had it cushy for far too long.

I read on the Echo last night that the Taxi drivers were having a big meeting to discuss their problems, including the explosion in the numbers of Taxis in Cork – and – this is the best bit – their dissatisfaction at the way people were parking in the ‘new taxi ranks’ in Patrick Street, taking up their valuable rank space.

They are cluttering up Pana – please oust them to another location.

Agreed. All parking on Pana should be banned, with the exception of buses and delivery vehicles.

Taxi drivers should be moved to Academy street

Originally posted by Pana01
Hmmm – looking forward to that BIG announcement, Lexington.

Regarding that vile Portakabin, I have a bad feeling that it will be there forever. Why can’t these guys just have a ‘base’ at the bus station and be done with it? They’ve had it cushy for far too long.

I read on the Echo last night that the Taxi drivers were having a big meeting to discuss their problems, including the explosion in the numbers of Taxis in Cork – and – this is the best bit – their dissatisfaction at the way people were parking in the ‘new taxi ranks’ in Patrick Street, taking up their valuable rank space.

They are cluttering up Pana – please oust them to another location.

Sorry, someone actually “designed” that student development on Lynch’s St? Think I preferred the dereliction and night clubs.

Also – is anyone reminded of Smithfield Market when they look at the scan of Jurys – check out the lanterns and buildings…

*UPDATES*

Rockfell Investments have successfully returned their Further Information request to CCC in the form of a Significant Further Information Response. The response is a massive return of information in which the co-operation between CCC, the developer and architect (Niall Coffey of Frank Ennis & Assoc) is unmissable. I have to say, though I may be disappointed in the Rockfell proposal with respect to their previous development attempt on the Guy & Co Cornmarket Street site, I am very impressed at how the developer has worked closely with CCC. It is evident both parties want to see this project up and running. Rockfell have made some major adjustments to their initial proposal in response to CCC requests.

-> The overall number of apartments is now to be reduced by 15 from 80 to 65.

-> Height at the Cornmarket Street elevation is to be dropped by 6m to calm overshadowing fears.

-> 66 dedicated underground parking facilities are now to be provided.

-> an additional retail unit is to be added (from 7 to 8) as part of an extended department store element, which will be divided over basement, ground and first floor levels whilst retention of the Guy & Co facade is maintained.

-> The ‘Noddy’s Building’ on Cornmarket Street and Dalton’s Avenue will now form a more independent structure with relation to the primary development.

-> Various alterations have been made to the building facade in the interest of aesthetic quality and enhancement of the overall design.

-> Plus many more.

This is a positive, a far more desirable development – it also shows that a constructive positive relationship between developer and planners can exist to maintain desirability, progression and sustainability at all levels to ensure a positive development outcome.

With all of the development and “resurfacing the island” it would be nice for the city of culture year if the council or someone could also look at painting the roadside poles and roadsigns,and cleaning the signs as well!

Lexington – I’m a little worried about the comment of alterations to the facade in the interest of “asthetic quality”… the CCC are hardly going to be the bastions of fine architectural taste. If their idea of positive intervention is that Frinailla dev on Grand Parade (yielding something so dull they might aswell retain the GP Hotel facade and noone would notice) then this could be an ominous sign. I know in this case (cormarket st) that the intial design for the hotel on site was a disaster so intervention is probably for the best here.

banishing the portacabiners to the bus station will be a long walk once Parnell Place Stn closes, no?

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
I know in this case (cormarket st) that the intial design for the hotel on site was a disaster so intervention is probably for the best here.

The current design for the Rockfell Investments project on Cornmarket Street is light-years from the original hotel design – and trust me, a little intervention was needed at the very least. Though the re-submission entails little facade alteration, it is alternations which are needed. However the Guy & Co building, red-brick facade is being retained, refurbished and incorporated as the department store entrance.

With relation to tenants of the new department store, one of the anchors at Dundrum Town Centre (which is their 1st Irish store), I am told, have expressed an interest in at least one large, anchor unit within the department store – if not, all units with concession options. However no confirmation of this ‘rumour’ will be made until planning is granted and construction initiated. Furthermore, a major Swedish fashion retailler with ambitious Irish expansion plans (and whom is also opening a store at Dundrum) has indicated that either Cornmarket Street or Grand Parade would make desirable retail locations failing the ability to secure a sufficient premises on Patrick’s Street in Cork. By pure deduction, I am only assuming that Rockfell’s department store on Cornmarket Street or Frinailla’s Grand Parade Plaza would make suitable locations considering the large open-plan nature of their retail elements. However, as ATIS Harrington Bannon have indicated almost all units at the Grand Parade Plaza are Sale/Let/Terms Agreed, Rockfell’s Department Store would seem the more likely. However, this information is only an assumption made, based on received information.

The portacabin on patricks st. is supposed to be only a temporary measure. I heard that the old bus conductors cabin is being restored and will be repositioned on the street in the future.

I’d make the same assumption about that swedish retailer locating in either of these sites but I am also interested in the properties which have become vacant on Patricks st. The lease is for sale in the old pound city store and the lease has been sold in the carphone warehouse outlet. Also the newsagents across from merchants quay “the Favourite” appears to undergoing extensive reconstruction. These units may not have a large enought floor plate for the retailer mentioned above but might we see more international chains getting onto Patricks st. I know footlocker anounced a major expansion into the Irish market and so too did Starbucks.

Our chamber of commerce seems to be excellent at lobbying the government for investment into the city. Why doesn’t it apply the same pressure to IAWS and other property owners sitting on vast tracts of prime development land.

And why hasn’t it spoken out against CIE’s inactivity in relation to Horgan’s Quay. Is anyone actively demanding activity in relation to this site? Are CIE holding out for a property down-turn? My impression was that this badly managed, appallingly run semi-state is in need of all the financial aid it can get its hands on. Surely the sale/redevelopment of Horgan’s quay will bring in mega-bucks… oh I forgot, the government will back them up financially regardless of their performance.

Heuston Station has had two overhauls in the last ten years, while the CIE continue to drag their heels in relation to Cork. Where is our political will to make things happen? I admire the new City manager a great deal and would love to see him take on CIE in relation to this matter.

BTW, here’s hoping that Aer Lingus will finally announce Transatlantic flights from Cork today 🙂

Originally posted by satanta99
The portacabin on patricks st. is supposed to be only a temporary measure. I heard that the old bus conductors cabin is being restored and will be repositioned on the street in the future.

I’d make the same assumption about that swedish retailer locating in either of these sites but I am also interested in the properties which have become vacant on Patricks st. The lease is for sale in the old pound city store and the lease has been sold in the carphone warehouse outlet. Also the newsagents across from merchants quay “the Favourite” appears to undergoing extensive reconstruction. These units may not have a large enought floor plate for the retailer mentioned above but might we see more international chains getting onto Patricks st. I know footlocker anounced a major expansion into the Irish market and so too did Starbucks.

CIE are not only holding Horgan’s Qy back… Spencer Dock in Dublin is suffering of late too. Treasury went ahead and sold a whole tranche of apartments – confirmed a large anchor for offices (PWC) and began ground work on site. Now CIE it seems are relenting and throwing a serious spanner in the works for this project. If Spencer Dock cannot get a smooth ride from the CIE side of things – how on earth can Horgans Qy expect otherwise?

Horgan’s Quay represents not only one of the biggest investment and development opportunities in Cork, but the entire country. Though ‘sketch’ plans have been drawn up by an investment company consisting of Treasury Holdings, Manor Park Homes, CIE and with input from CCC and various local developers – I agree that CIE have been the predominant culprit in holding back on this development. Sketch plans have proposed offices, commercial/retail quarter, a new grand plaza utilizing the river, boardwalks, new railway station development (drawings of which can be seen in the Cork Development Plan 2004 – 2009), a large new underground and multistorey parking facility to cater for public and private uses, a new 6000 seat convention centre, up to 5000 residential units, up to 5 high-rise office, residential and commercial buildings of ‘world-class’ proportions and quality reaching up to 20 – 25 storeys each. The potential is overwhelming, and could provide a substantial strategic income for the semi-state body over the next 25 years easily. Much of the company’s reluctance comes in the form of pure lack of foresight and real management strategy. CIE will be the lesser for not getting it’s act together.

However, in fairness to Cork City Manager Joe Gavin, he has vehemently campaigned to get the CIE site at Horgan’s Quay/Railway Street up and running as a large-scale convention centre. This was reported in one of these posts a few weeks back. Mr. Gavin has already received a number of interested party proposals and it is his intention to push through with the project to have it up and running within 2 years pending the decision deadline given to O’Callaghan Properties regarding their proposed convention centre at Mahon Point.

---

Also, it is true that Cork Airport are expected to make a major announcement today regarding a number of new routes, one of which is expected to be a new transatlantic route by a scheduled carrier, another relates to the expansion of services by a low-cost carrier at the airport, and another relating to a number of new European routes. It will be interesting to see which carriers and routes are announced. Cork Airport management have suggested that the announcement will be among the biggest made since confirmation of the new 140m euro terminal.

No major transatlantic news from the Cork Airport press conference today……
>>>>>>
Aer Lingus has announced plans to establish four new routes between Cork Airport and contintental Europe from next summer.

The airline said it was planning to operate direct flights from Cork to Munich, Rome, Nice and Faro.

Aer Lingus already flies from Cork to seven other destinations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

at least it’s increasing the number or routes… still hard to understand why they got rid of the cork-dublin flight (supposedly their second most profitable route).

Originally posted by Pana01
No major transatlantic news from the Cork Airport press conference today……
>>>>>>
Aer Lingus has announced plans to establish four new routes between Cork Airport and contintental Europe from next summer.

The airline said it was planning to operate direct flights from Cork to Munich, Rome, Nice and Faro.

Aer Lingus already flies from Cork to seven other destinations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Cork Airport is to receive 4 additional European routes with Aer Lingus, who will now base 3 Airbus A320s to serve Munich, Rome, Faro and Nice. In addition, Aer Lingus have announced they intend to increase frequencies and capacities on their existing European routes to Barcelona and Milan, as well as Amsterdam and London Heathrow. This is good news for Cork Airport who continues to see exceptional growth on all its continental European routes. Some people, remain a little disappointed about a failure to announce transatlantic intentions – but I believe this is partially due to the hype spurred up by the local media before the announcement was officially made.

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*UPDATES*

Southlinch Theatres Ltd have received planning on appeal to re-open The Savoy Theatre as a nightclub. This is good news for Cork’s nightlife – as it has been a sorely missed venue among locals and will provide huge capacity for major entertainment events once again. 40 jobs are to be created as a result of this development.

-> Also, development group Lyonshall Ltd have announced the imminent construction of their 200m residential, educational and commercial development at the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock.

For those curious as to what exactly is happening with the former An Post Sorting Office Site on Eglinton Street which was purchased not so long ago by O’Flynn Construction – I managed to have a discussion with a certain director within the company. The site has a sign located on it which indicates clearly the intention of a ‘MAJOR RETAIL/RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT’ – but O’Flynn Construction are remaining more tight-lipped on this project than any other. This is partially due to the fact that a certain Evening Echo reporter blurted out all over the local media that ‘Marks & Spencer’ were looking into locating at Ballincollig Town Centre – a report first posted on this forum, but which was taken from it without my prior consent. Now O’Flynn Construction are being a lot more cautious. However, the director did tell me that pre-planning discussions with Cork City Council had just been complete and that they would be lodging a large application with the Planning Department ( and it was said in these exact words) “pretty soon now, I can’t give you the specifics anymore, but the application will be lodge very shortly”.

When it is, this forum will be the first to know about what is expected to be among the most exciting of the new docklands developments. Although I have some details already, hopefully I will be able to post them here, the day before the application is made formally. So you’ll all know, a day before everyone else does – that is, if they don’t pull an O’Callaghan Properties/Jurys Hotel announcement.

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*UPDATES*

😉 Speculation within development circles continues to mount – though cautiously I might add – about a large-scale redevelopment, renovation and extention of an existing Cork cultural institution. The speculation continues after holding companies for a number of investors who had been attached to the redevelopment plans for the MacCurtain Street-based culture and arts facility, quietly purchased quayside properties adjoining the institution. Rumour has it, an on-going feasibility study is being conducted into a huge refurbishment and extension of the cultural property, extending from MacCurtain Street to Patrick’s Quay. The development will consist of underground parking, late-night bar and possibly nightclub, educational facility w/ film production school, new mezzanine, restaurant and cafe, adjoining commercial units and additional smaller arts theatres which will be able to facilitate medium to large scale lectures/conferences etc etc as well as plays/dramas and so on. The project is seen as a perfect opportunity to provide Cork with world class conference and cultural educational facilities (which will work in conjunction with both UCC and CIT), and which will compliment Cork’s European Capital of Culture status. The expected value of the project is in and around 40m euro. However this is project, may I please remind you, is only at the pre-planning stage and there is no guarantee of commencement.

Thanks as always for the info… is there any chance of information being sent to individual e-mails. Confidentiality will be guaranteed.

Were you speaking to Michael then?

Originally posted by lexington
Cork Airport is to receive 4 additional European routes with Aer Lingus, who will now base 3 Airbus A320s to serve Munich, Rome, Faro and Nice. In addition, Aer Lingus have announced they intend to increase frequencies and capacities on their existing European routes to Barcelona and Milan, as well as Amsterdam and London Heathrow. This is good news for Cork Airport who continues to see exceptional growth on all its continental European routes. Some people, remain a little disappointed about a failure to announce transatlantic intentions – but I believe this is partially due to the hype spurred up by the local media before the announcement was officially made.

---

*UPDATES*

Southlinch Theatres Ltd have received planning on appeal to re-open The Savoy Theatre as a nightclub. This is good news for Cork’s nightlife – as it has been a sorely missed venue among locals and will provide huge capacity for major entertainment events once again. 40 jobs are to be created as a result of this development.

-> Also, development group Lyonshall Ltd have announced the imminent construction of their 200m residential, educational and commercial development at the Ursuline Convent in Blackrock.

*UPDATES*

-> The Citi-West Statoil Service Station at Victoria Cross is being dismantled as we speak, this is to make way for Paul Montgomery and Edmund Kenneally’s Phase 2 of the Victoria Mills Student Accomodation development. The 1st Phase is nearing completion. The Phase 2 element will cater for 132 more bedspaces, underground parking and a 3000sq ft ground floor commercial unit. Planning was granted by ABP after Third Party appeal.

-> John F. Supple Contractors have erected a crane over the old city Waterworks on the Lee Road. The builders were awarded the 5m euro contact for CCC as part of their plan to develop the site as a Sustainable City Campus Project.

-> The final PJ Walls tower crane at CUH’s new 62m euro Maternity Wing has been dismantled. The new wing, designed by O’Riordan Staehli Architects, will open next year. Those in Bishopstown who were growing fond of the tower cranes which became almost a recognised element of the suburbs sky-line won’t have long to wait to see another 2 at least be erected over the new 85m Renal/Cardiac unit at CUH which was just given the financial and planning go-ahead. Construction starts next year and will take 2 years to complete with an opening date scheduled for early 2008.

-> Meanwhile, closer to the city centre, The Mercy University Hospital, which recently purchased the Distillery Lee Fields adjacent to its main hospital building for 20m euro with UCC, has had plans drawn up for a new 6-level multi-storey car-park on their new land across the river. The drawings were provided by Reddy O’Riordan Staehli Architects. However, developer Sean Meehan has recently applied for planning to construct a 3-level underground/under-river car-park at Grenville Place, designed by John Paul Lennon, right outside the door of the Mercy. Neither finance nor permission has yet been sought by the Mercy Hospital for their project, which will include a new footbridge, consultation rooms and urology unit. Sean Meehan’s project intends to incorporate a new vehicular access bridge off the quay side which then loops back into the quay wall and underground. The development will also provide commercial units and consultation rooms. Currently, the planning application is labelled incomplete, a re-issued application is expected soon.

---

And to mickeydocs, can’t say who it was, but trust me – it’s very reliable as the director I was talking with is overseeing the Eglinton Street project.

Has the O’Flynn project got you excited?

Originally posted by lexington
*UPDATES*

-> The Citi-West Statoil Service Station at Victoria Cross is being dismantled as we speak, this is to make way for Paul Montgomery and Edmund Kenneally’s Phase 2 of the Victoria Mills Student Accomodation development. The 1st Phase is nearing completion. The Phase 2 element will cater for 132 more bedspaces, underground parking and a 3000sq ft ground floor commercial unit. Planning was granted by ABP after Third Party appeal.

-> John F. Supple Contractors have erected a crane over the old city Waterworks on the Lee Road. The builders were awarded the 5m euro contact for CCC as part of their plan to develop the site as a Sustainable City Campus Project.

-> The final PJ Walls tower crane at CUH’s new 62m euro Maternity Wing has been dismantled. The new wing, designed by O’Riordan Staehli Architects, will open next year. Those in Bishopstown who were growing fond of the tower cranes which became almost a recognised element of the suburbs sky-line won’t have long to wait to see another 2 at least be erected over the new 85m Renal/Cardiac unit at CUH which was just given the financial and planning go-ahead. Construction starts next year and will take 2 years to complete with an opening date scheduled for early 2008.

-> Meanwhile, closer to the city centre, The Mercy University Hospital, which recently purchased the Distillery Lee Fields adjacent to its main hospital building for 20m euro with UCC, has had plans drawn up for a new 6-level multi-storey car-park on their new land across the river. The drawings were provided by Reddy O’Riordan Staehli Architects. However, developer Sean Meehan has recently applied for planning to construct a 3-level underground/under-river car-park at Grenville Place, designed by John Paul Lennon, right outside the door of the Mercy. Neither finance nor permission has yet been sought by the Mercy Hospital for their project, which will include a new footbridge, consultation rooms and urology unit. Sean Meehan’s project intends to incorporate a new vehicular access bridge off the quay side which then loops back into the quay wall and underground. The development will also provide commercial units and consultation rooms. Currently, the planning application is labelled incomplete, a re-issued application is expected soon.

---

And to mickeydocs, can’t say who it was, but trust me – it’s very reliable as the director I was talking with is overseeing the Eglinton Street project.

Anyone know which architects (if any) Treasury used for the “sketch plans” for Horgan’s Quay?

I managed to have a discussion with a certain director within the company. The site has a sign located on it which indicates clearly the intention of a ‘MAJOR RETAIL/RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT’ – but O’Flynn Construction are remaining more tight-lipped on this project than any other.

---

*UPDATES*

😉 Speculation within development circles continues to mount – though cautiously I might add – about a large-scale redevelopment, renovation and extention of an existing Cork cultural institution.

Is this for everyman 😉

[/B][/QUOTE]I’d be surprised if there is any retail element to this… surely office and appartments are more in keeping with this area…

Any development which occurs on Patricks Quay would be welcomed by me. At the moment it is nothing more than a “higgledy piggeldy” mess. The varied building heights fronting the quay look, to me, like someone who has had their 2 front teeth knocked out. Then there is the awful yellow block which is the metropole! Hopefully we will see something to redeem the area and revitalise the quay!

A couple of newsworthy updates make the post today –

🙂 Cornmarket Street is set for a 5m euro makeover, which is to also include 20 set market stalls with an emphasis on fresh foods and open-air food stands freshly served up, traditional crafts etc. The street will be lined with green-leaf trees and the road surface will be relayed with extended, blending pathways which strongly support pedestrian activity. The project will compliment the new Rockfell Department Store and Residential development (which is scheduled to complete around the same time as the street redevelopment) along with the new Cornmarket Street Footbridge.

🙂 Beth Gali, the Spanish architect responsible for the designs of the Patrick Street, Grand Parade and Oliver Plunkett Street redevelopments – has also designed the impressive new Christmas lighting scheme for Patrick’s Street, set to debut this Christmas 2004. The CG images are pretty impressive – I’ll try and get them up for you as soon as I can. There is a great emphasis on style, to compliment the redevelopment, and gone are the rancid tacky creations of years past.

🙂 Lidl GmbH have reapplied for permission of a store on their Churchfield site (formerly Ecco Shoes HQ), after a refusal on the original plan a few weeks ago. The new submission takes into account recommendations made by the CCC Planning Dept. and has a strong emphasis on ‘neighbourhood’ accomodation. The new plan sees 2 single storey pitched-roof buildings being constructed on-site. One with Lidl Supermarket, and the other with 3 smaller, complimentary retail units and 166 car-parking spaces. Design is by O’Shaugnessy & Co.

🙂 Developer Tom Fitzgerald, owner of Athlone Leisure World, who has already received planning for a family recreational centre at Fitz’s Boreen in Blackpool, has announced his intention to commence construction of the development. This will include a 4-storey over basement building of 6203sq m, with 14 no. ten pin bowling lanes, childrens and toddlers play areas, café, kitchen and service/storage areas, toilets, club bar, games and circulation areas, all at ground floor level. At first floor level, the gross floor area will be approximately 1784 sq. metres accommodating pool and snooker room, electronic games rooms, administrative office, staff quarters and plants/machinery area. The remaining floors will house a day care centre, swimming pool, steam rooms and saunas, aerobics centre, gym and beauty treatment facility. Design is by Finola Deavey, of Deavey & Assoc.

:rolleyes: Though Hamilton Osbourne King indicate the Thomas Crosbie Holdings site on Lavitts Quay (proposed new Irish Examiner HQ) is under ‘offer consideration’, directors at TCH are adament they intend to decide on the fate of this deal and their new city offices within the coming weeks.

🙂 Blarney-based John Cleary Developments, who recently succeeded in gaining permission for 5 light industrial units at Kilnap Business Park in Blackpool, are lodging an application to construct 5 state-of-the-art car showrooms for varied dealerships adjacent to the new Johnson & Perrot showrooms, awaiting planning and designed by SDA O’Flynn, at Mahon Point. The development should create 200 jobs and will secure Mahon Point as one of the major dealership locations in the country.

---

burge_eye – Anyone know which architects (if any) Treasury used for the “sketch plans” for Horgan’s Quay?

It has all been very secretive burge_eye, but it is my understanding, more than one architectural firm has been employed on the project. Similar to the method adopted by O’Flynn Construction at their 500m euro Ballincollig Town Centre project. All I can say is that such a development as proposed for the Horgan’s Quay site must be an architects dream.

mickeydocs – Is this for everyman

Once again, mickey I can’t say. But what I can say is that it is a project that hopefully every woman and Every man will benefit from. 😉

A couple of newsworthy updates make the post today –

🙂 Cornmarket Street is set for a 5m euro makeover, which is to also include 20 set market stalls with an emphasis on fresh foods and open-air food stands freshly served up, traditional crafts etc. The street will be lined with green-leaf trees and the road surface will be relayed with extended, blending pathways which strongly support pedestrian activity. The project will compliment the new Rockfell Department Store and Residential development (which is scheduled to complete around the same time as the street redevelopment) along with the new Cornmarket Street Footbridge.

🙁 Neil O’Sullivan of OSB, is to lodge an application for the development of 94 residential units in Douglas, expected by the week end. The development is a mix of housing, duplexes and apartments – James Leahy & Assoc. are the architectural firm behind the design. Neil O’Sullivan’s other projects around the city include an apartment development at Camden Quay. The 1st phase of which is in mid-construction, by John F. Supple Ltd. The 2nd phase of the project is still in appeal to ABP, and will consist of a 6-storey building incorporating 55 residential units, an new Cork Arts Theatre and reconstructed public house. Both are also designed by James Leahy & Assoc.

🙂 Beth Gali, the Spanish architect responsible for the designs of the Patrick Street, Grand Parade and Oliver Plunkett Street redevelopments – has also designed the impressive new Christmas lighting scheme for Patrick’s Street, set to debut this Christmas 2004. The CG images are pretty impressive – I’ll try and get them up for you as soon as I can. There is a great emphasis on style, to compliment the redevelopment, and gone are the rancid tacky creations of years past.

🙂 Lidl GmbH have reapplied for permission of a store on their Churchfield site (formerly Ecco Shoes HQ), after a refusal on the original plan a few weeks ago. The new submission takes into account recommendations made by the CCC Planning Dept. and has a strong emphasis on ‘neighbourhood’ accomodation. The new plan sees 2 single storey pitched-roof buildings being constructed on-site. One with Lidl Supermarket, and the other with 3 smaller, complimentary retail units and 166 car-parking spaces. Design is by O’Shaugnessy & Co.

🙂 Developer Tom Fitzgerald, owner of Athlone Leisure World, who has already received planning for a family recreational centre at Fitz’s Boreen in Blackpool, has announced his intention to commence construction of the development. This will include a 4-storey over basement building of 6203sq m, with 14 no. ten pin bowling lanes, childrens and toddlers play areas, café, kitchen and service/storage areas, toilets, club bar, games and circulation areas, all at ground floor level. At first floor level, the gross floor area will be approximately 1784 sq. metres accommodating pool and snooker room, electronic games rooms, administrative office, staff quarters and plants/machinery area. The remaining floors will house a day care centre, swimming pool, steam rooms and saunas, aerobics centre, gym and beauty treatment facility. Design is by Finola Deavey, of Deavey & Assoc.

:rolleyes: Though Hamilton Osbourne King indicate the Thomas Crosbie Holdings site on Lavitts Quay (proposed new Irish Examiner HQ) is under ‘offer consideration’, directors at TCH are adament they intend to decide on the fate of this deal and their new city offices within the coming weeks.

🙂 Blarney-based John Cleary Developments, who recently succeeded in gaining permission for 5 light industrial units at Kilnap Business Park in Blackpool, are lodging an application to construct 5 state-of-the-art car showrooms for varied dealerships adjacent to the new Johnson & Perrot showrooms, awaiting planning and designed by SDA O’Flynn, at Mahon Point. The development should create 200 jobs and will secure Mahon Point as one of the major dealership locations in the country.

---

burge_eye – Anyone know which architects (if any) Treasury used for the “sketch plans” for Horgan’s Quay?

It has all been very secretive burge_eye, but it is my understanding, more than one architectural firm has been employed on the project. Similar to the method adopted by O’Flynn Construction at their 500m euro Ballincollig Town Centre project. All I can say is that such a development as proposed for the Horgan’s Quay site must be an architects dream.

mickeydocs – Is this for everyman

Once again, mickey I can’t say. But what I can say is that it is a project that hopefully every woman and Every man will benefit from. 😉

Thanks anyway Lexington. Treasury aren’t normally so circumspect

I see “Inside Cork” has taken up the anti-Jurys gauntlet. Seems inevitable an appeal will be made?

burge_eye, what’s the gist of the article? What possible grounds would they have for objection? The hotel as it is is an eyesore that is very much “isolated” in any case.

Basically obscuration of St. Fin Barre’s. It mentions residents of Sunday’s Well but I would imagine that to be the least contentious view, given the height of it’s aspect. The Cathedral is really only visible from Lancaster Quay from the Jury’s bridge itself. Blowing smoke perhaps?

Absolutely.

You swear it was some majestic postcard view of the cathedral in any case (what with the half yellow half pink Jurys and the badly pruned trees as a foreground).

I’m totally in favour of the redevelopment of the Jury’s site, and I do think O’Callaghan Properties proposal is of a satisfactory standard – but I have doubts on the viability of the residential element of the project. It also seems curious Jurys are optioning for a smaller capacity hotel with this project when their original plans involved a major expansion. The current Jurys has 185-bedrooms, the proposed O’CP one will have 182. Nevertheless, Inside Cork is a publication desperately trying to take an Evening Echo stance as ‘the voice of the common man’. Its campaign is just a short-sighted self-serving ego trip – in Cork, there will always be objections sadly, Inside Cork is just trying to tap into this. Pity. I would of thought real objections should be aimed at getting rid of the awful current Jurys and not opposing a stylish, complimentary new one. The proposed development will be aestheticaly beneficial to the area – St. Finbarres is so prominent it certainly won’t be obsecured, besides, its the other side of the development altogether, objection on these grounds don’t even make sense!

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Also, burge_eye, Treasury are only one of a number of parties involved and bidding for involvement at Horgan’s Quay, although they are among the most significantly involved. No disclosure of development can be issued until terms are firmly agreed.

Here are just some interesting images of Howard Holdings City Quarter development on Lapps Quay. Unfortunately, these images don’t include the surrounding recent developments at No.5 and No.6 Lapps Quay, nor the redeveloped Bus Station and plan for Custom House Quay. They also pre-date the addition of a 6th floor to the office element of the project, but they provide a good idea of what the completed project will look like.

A person on the know has told me that O’Callaghan’s have been guaranteed the new city centre event centre. Has anyone else heard anything in relation to this?

Originally posted by lexington
Here are just some interesting images of Howard Holdings City Quarter development on Lapps Quay. Unfortunately, these images don’t include the surrounding recent developments at No.5 and No.6 Lapps Quay, nor the redeveloped Bus Station and plan for Custom House Quay. They also pre-date the addition of a 6th floor to the office element of the project, but they provide a good idea of what the completed project will look like.

With all the recent press about the wonderful new look Patrick Street, I couldn’t believe the headlines on todays news saying that Cork was the dirtiest city in Ireland, and that Pana was ‘filthy’.

Bishop Lucey Park and Oliver Plunkett Street were also singled out for criticism. One good point was that the city council were told to get their act together – and not before time. They seem to have no pride in Cork at all.

The level of chewing gum spat upon our streets is a disgrace, some people have total disregard for the area. Sorry to rant on again, but another reason Pana looks filthy is overflowing litter bins (Hello City Council – do you think you can EVER address this situation, it’s going on as long as I can remember – do you ever have meetings and put plans in place to address issues???)

Also the 4 or 5 new taxi ranks clogging up the street, and allowing 20-30 car park spaces there is another joke. Oh, and while I’m at it, why are loading bays allowed to operate until 6pm on Saturdays, our busiest shopping days?? Crazy – and on Saturdays, 90% of the time they are occupied by abandoned vehicles anyway. Who really delivers on Saturday afternoons, clogging up the main street?

Finally, as I walked along Maylor St on Saturday afternoon, I was bullied out of the way by a ‘people carrier’. I said to the driver ‘this is pedestrian only until 5pm’. I can’t repeat his reply here, but why is there never any Gardai stopping these people?

Well although I take some of your points and completely agree with them – the title of ‘Dirtiest City’ I do think is undeserved. I disagree with this not purely because of my Leeside pride but because in genuine fairness, this title is far from the truth. Cork has made prudent and effective efforts in tidying up its image. I don’t want to name other cities and towns for fear of being condemningly accusative, but I can think of many other urban centres around Ireland that a disgracefully rubbished.

It’s unfair to label streets like Patrick’s Street and Oliver Plunkett Street as being ‘dirty’ especially at a time of such dramatic redevelopment is like shooting fish in a barrell. Of course they’ll be unsightly during such construction work.

However, I agree wholeheartedly about the inadequate bins on Patricks Street which CCC are now having to replace at a cost of 90,000 euros. They are too small, too difficult and as a result, cannot handle the appropriate volume of waste. This inadequacy is staining what has become a superb thoroughfare.

Plans are in the motion to close of Patrick’s Street to public traffic, bar buses, emergency and goods vehicles – but this will not come into effect until all city centre resurfacing and development work has been complete.

In addition, the Gardai have taken a lazy and inadequate stance on controlling the inner city pedestrian priority zones. It is a disgrace and has made what should be a pleasant shopping and walking district into a hostile one. Instead of campaigning against the condition of Beamish & Crawford premises, I think energy would be better invested in campaigning the Gardai and CCC to address this far more serious but neglected issue.

Why don’t we start a petition
a. to see the removal of the bus shelter from pana
b. to encourage the ccc to powerhouse the renovated city centre at least once a month
c. to remove the parking spaces from pana

anyone got the technical skill to launch an on-line petition?

Originally posted by Pana01
With all the recent press about the wonderful new look Patrick Street, I couldn’t believe the headlines on todays news saying that Cork was the dirtiest city in Ireland, and that Pana was ‘filthy’.

Bishop Lucey Park and Oliver Plunkett Street were also singled out for criticism. One good point was that the city council were told to get their act together – and not before time. They seem to have no pride in Cork at all.

The level of chewing gum spat upon our streets is a disgrace, some people have total disregard for the area. Sorry to rant on again, but another reason Pana looks filthy is overflowing litter bins (Hello City Council – do you think you can EVER address this situation, it’s going on as long as I can remember – do you ever have meetings and put plans in place to address issues???)

Also the 4 or 5 new taxi ranks clogging up the street, and allowing 20-30 car park spaces there is another joke. Oh, and while I’m at it, why are loading bays allowed to operate until 6pm on Saturdays, our busiest shopping days?? Crazy – and on Saturdays, 90% of the time they are occupied by abandoned vehicles anyway. Who really delivers on Saturday afternoons, clogging up the main street?

Finally, as I walked along Maylor St on Saturday afternoon, I was bullied out of the way by a ‘people carrier’. I said to the driver ‘this is pedestrian only until 5pm’. I can’t repeat his reply here, but why is there never any Gardai stopping these people?

There was that guy who had the beamish protest!

Let me say as a non-Corkonian who lived there for a time, that I am delighted to see the love Cork people on this site have for their city, and the proactive attitude to changing things for the better.

It was always a beautiful city, but there was some of an attitude of “Era, sure it’ll do” back in the day.

Move over boys; new generation in town.

Filthy Cork

Cork is Ireland’s dirtiest city: survey

30 August 2004 13:33
Cork has been branded the dirtiest city in the country just four months before it will become the European Capital of Culture.

This is the second survey published this year by the Irish Business Against Litter alliance and, encouragingly, it shows major improvements in the state of many towns and cities.

But IBAL Chairman Dr Tom Cavanagh slams the condition of Dublin city centre and Cork city centre which, he says, is the dirtiest in the country.

Cork’s main street, Patrick Street, was described as being filthy, with large amounts of litter and not enough bins. Nearby Oliver Plunkett Street was said to have a serious litter problem too, while the approach roads to the city were branded blackspots which presented a terrible image to visitors.

Cork City Council, which spends €5m per year on street cleaning, said it would not comment until it had studied the findings of the survey.

Dublin city centre was similarly described as having a serious litter problem, while Tallaght and Tullamore were branded litter blackspots.

Cavan is the country’s cleanest town while the survey’s authors said there had been a spectacular improvement in Galway city, which was litter free.

Originally posted by asdasd
There was that guy who had the beamish protest!

Let me say as a non-Corkonian who lived there for a time, that I am delighted to see the love Cork people on this site have for their city, and the proactive attitude to changing things for the better.

It was always a beautiful city, but there was some of an attitude of “Era, sure it’ll do” back in the day.

Move over boys; new generation in town.

They’re very decent words asdasd, and I know they are very well appreciated. Thank you.

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Niall, the report more accurately mentioned Cork as being in the top 4 dirtiest urban areas. I title I dispute vehemently. I will be studying this report in detail. I agree Cork is no-where near an ideal, but it is also displaced of the this title the report has bestowed on it. Nonetheless, we must keep working hard at bringing our city to exemplary standards.

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*UPDATES*

🙂 Tesco Ireland have lodged a planning application with CCC for the development of a Tesco Discount Petrol Station at its newly expanded Wilton Shopping Centre premises along the Sarsfield Road.

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🙂 Preliminary construction work is already beginning at the former Statoil at Victoria Cross as Bowen Construction proceed with Phase 2 of the Victoria Mills student development. Developers Paul Montgomery and Edmund Kenneally’s project Phase 2 will cater for an additional 31 apartments and 3000sq ft ground floor commercial unit.

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😡 Objections, seemingly as much of Cork’s way of life as calling someone a ‘langer’, have been lodged against Riga Ltd (O’Callaghan Properties) proposed 160m euro redevelopment of the Jury’s Hotel site on the Western Road/Lancaster Quay. The objections are based on fears that the project will obscure views of St. Finbars Cathedral from Sundays Well (15mins across the city from the proposed development on a hillside). Sigh. The objection is a little ridiculous as anyone familiar with the nature of the development and its lay-out will tell you, but so are some people.

Well now!

Didn’t you know that one house miles and miles away is entitled to hold up a much needed development – all because they might not have as much of Finbarres to enjoy from their back garden.
Maybe Jurys should object to that lady’s tatty house that it spoils the people of Cork’s view of Sunday’s Well from Lancaster Qy…?

After picking a full black sack of rubbish off a garden in High St Dublin 8 exactly 7 days after it was last cleaned I can say that Cork isn’t the only place in Ireland to suffer from mindless selfish behaviour.

Four Months should be sufficient time to get extra bins and cleansing personnel before the year begins.

Originally posted by lexington

🙂 Preliminary construction work is already beginning at the former Statoil at Victoria Cross [/B]

Lexington. Do you know if there are any development planned for the vacant cash and carry which is adjacent to the statoil garage? Its been empty for years now.

corkdood as far as know it is more student apartments, heard it is supposed to be starting soon enough. I am sure Lexington will have more info for you!

On the subject of litter, I was home a few weeks ago and thought the place was beginning to look alot better, suppose with the amount of wrok going on in streets as Oliver Plunkett St, it is bound to create a bad initial impression!

corkdood as far as know it is more student apartments, heard it is supposed to be starting soon enough.

On the subject of litter, I was home a few weeks ago and thought the place was beginning to look alot better, suppose with the amount of wrok going on in streets as Oliver Plunkett St, it is bound to create a bad initial impression!

corkdood as far as know it is more student apartments, heard it is supposed to be starting soon enough. I am sure Lexington will have more info for you!

On the subject of litter, I was home a few weeks ago and thought the place was beginning to look alot better, suppose with the amount of wrok going on in streets as Oliver Plunkett St, it is bound to create a bad initial impression!

The highlighting of the litter issue will be a catalyst for improving on the litter problem. Patrick street needs to be cleaned during the day, and not just in the mornings and evenings.

Originally posted by Leesider
corkdood as far as know it is more student apartments, heard it is supposed to be starting soon enough. I am sure Lexington will have more info for you!

On the subject of litter, I was home a few weeks ago and thought the place was beginning to look alot better, suppose with the amount of wrok going on in streets as Oliver Plunkett St, it is bound to create a bad initial impression!

It seems that the majority of the Docklands activity to date is centred around Horgan’s quay and areas either north or west of the docklands. Has anyone heard of any activity on the South side of the docks, for example centre parks road?

And what kind of plans are in place for the grain silos?

THe city council website is prob the best source for information regarding what is proposed for the centre park road area. If you go to the website you can look at the docklands development plan in adobe format. It provides an interesting view of the plans for this area in the future.

Thanks Satanta for the info, but I’m looking for actual developments taking place or in planning, rather than what the ccc would like to see happen. I’m looking for info really on projects that are close to realisation, projects such as the Howard Holdings/O’Flynns for Albert Quay/Eglinton Street.

Centre Parks Road and the Marina have the advantage of a genuinely beautiful setting (if you ignore the actual architecture and concentrate on the leafy riverside setting). I really hope that the regeneration of this area will be realised, ’cause it needs redevelopment as much as Horgan quay.

corkdood – Lexington. Do you know if there are any development planned for the vacant cash and carry which is adjacent to the statoil garage? Its been empty for years now.

John J. Fleming Construction, on behalf of UCC, have been granted permission after appeal for the demolition of the existing warehouse structures at M&P O’Sullivan Cash & Carry, Victoria Cross and the development of 60 student apartments, catering for 255 students, 62 basement car parking spaces, commercial units at ground floor & laundry – all in 4 stepped back, 5-storey blocks. Construction will go-ahead on word for UCC Buildings & Estates Dept.

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To mickeydocs, besides the previously mentioned projects at Alberts Quay (Howard Holdings) and Eglinton Street (O’Flynn Construction) – Custom House Quay (warehousing to the rear of Custom House) has been already surveyed by a consortium of private developers (this I am aware of) however, there have been no further developments since this survey 4 months ago, or specific communication with CCC. However I am aware, that it was the initial intention for the developers to construct a landmark office building at the site, incorporating the attractive Custom House building. The building was suppose to offer a dramatic entrance to Cork city centre itself. But I have heard little of it since, I will let you know if anything crops up in the meantime.

Rumours (as reported in one of my previous posts) of a German bank locating to a major, purpose built office facility along Kennedy Quay have aired in the past, but we will not know any more of this until Feb 2005 (the period of which Dublin’s IFSC tax designation runs out).

CCC have pushed for the redevelopment of R&H Hall Grain Silos along Kennedy Quay (something in the vain of the Baltic Centre in Newcastle/Gateshead but for commercial use and with more extensive redevelopment). This earmark, has been much of the reason why CCC have not adopted a specific high-buildings policy within the docklands area, because the redevelopment would be anywhere between 12 to 15 storeys high. Also, the area is designated for high-density development (with a view to high-rise). The majority of land in this area is also privately owned, so the best CCC can do is encourage sale and relocation.

However, Horgan’s Quay and Water Street remain the main movers in the Docklands development. Water Street, with a planning decision date due for 29th of September 2004, is the first development off the ranks so to speak. It is an impressive start (400 apartments in a series of waterside blocks ranging between 3 to 19 storeys high, and office/IT development and commercial boardwalk area) and we sincerely hope that this most vital project receives an unconditional go-ahead. Werdna Ltd are the developers behind this project.

Horgan’s Quay has seen some movement with the Conference/Convention centre element at Railway Street, but nothing solid. The remainder of the proposed development sees a series of high-rise 20 – 25 storey, waterside commercial and residential buildings, new commercial/retail hub, redeveloped railway station and landmark plaza with recreational area. CIE, Treasury Holdings, Manor Park Homes and Howard Holdings are among the list of potential investors/developers.

However, believe me that most of the major docklands developments focused on the southern docks will not be announced until the outcomes of the northern dock projects have been verified.

The GAA are favourites to acquire the Cork Showgrounds near Pairc Ui Chaoimh (along the southern docks) – which it is proposed they will redevelop the stadium and construct new hotel and conference facilities, with additional training facilities also on-site.

Of note, a large site (1.6 acres) sold by Lisney along the Centre Park Road went for 2m euro to a private developer (whom I am informed, intends to make a series of similar purchases nearby as part of a strategic, major commercial development).

Thanks Lexington

on the showgrounds site, access to there is quite iffy as matchgoers know, and the ability to do any better on the west side (i.e. from tunnel) is questionable given residential encroachment.

hope any redevelopment takes this into account. also, it’s an odd place for a hotel as is kinda far from any commercial area (with industrial to east, power station to west and residential to south)

*UPDATES*

-> Cork City Library on 57-61 Grand Parade is scheduled to begin the process of a 8.5m to 9m euro redevelopment which will see the city centre facility double in size from over to 2,500sq m to just under 5,000sq m. The Library Manager has said they are reviewing plans and temporary commissioned designs for the library which will see the facility expand upwards and outwards. CCC are considering the option of opening up a design competition for the library with a decision date due in late December 2004 with construction work beginning mid-Janurary 2005. Failing this, CCC will utilise existing designs and commence construction early Janurary 2005.

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-> CCC have also announced their intention to construct 150 affordable housing units for private sale in the Centre Park Road area (near the southern docklands development zone). The project will consist of 100 social housing units and approx. 50 apartments – of a striking and contemporary design to compliment the new docklands area.

One of the most overlooked but largest development projects currently at construction phase is Jacob’s Island – part of the Mahon Point lands (jointly bought from Cork Corp. by O’Callaghan Properties & McCarthy Developments. Whereas O’Callaghan Properties have developed the commercial element of the Mahon Point lands (44875sq m shopping centre, adjoining 11 screen multiplex, retail park, hotel and planned convention centre), McCarthy Developments have focused on the waterfront lands across the N25 for residential purposes, Jacob’s Island. Directly across the Douglas River and Atlantic Pond, on the Rochestown waterfront, McCarthy Developments are also developing the 160-unit, lavish Harty’s Quay.

Ridge Developments (contractors to both Jacob’s Island and Harty’s Quay) today erected their first tower crane on site at Jacob’s Island as part of their commencement on the taller waterfront residential buildings. In total, the Jacob’s Island project consists of the construction of 431 residential units made up of; 160 houses and duplex units consisting of 15 no. five bedroom two and three storey detached houses; 7 no. four bedroom two storey detached houses; 16 no. four bedroom three storey semi/terraced houses; 26 no. three or four bedroom two storey semi detached houses; 18 no. two and three bedroom two storey terraced courtyard houses. Also the proposed residential development includes the construction of 78 no. duplex units in 6 no. blocks of three and four storey with; 46 no. two bedroom apartments; 32 no. three bedroom duplex town houses with surface carparking for 87 no. cars; and 271 residential apartments on 8 no. blocks in 4 four storey; 1 five storey and 3 six storey buildings comprising of; 50 no. one bedroom; 212 no. two bedroom; and 9 no. three bedroom apartments with basement car parking for 408 cars with ancillary bicycle/refuse storage facilities, boardwalks and extensive public amenity areas.

Architects for Jacob’s Island are Project Architects, The Priory, John’s Street, Dublin 8. (the same architects responsible for Mahon Point Shopping Centre).

Harty’s Quay images

These appear very similar to Harty’s Quay in design.

Has there been any developments in relation to the Cornmarket Street Planning application.

Originally posted by lexington
One of the most overlooked but largest development projects currently at construction phase is Jacob’s Island – part of the Mahon Point lands (jointly bought from Cork Corp. by O’Callaghan Properties & McCarthy Developments. Whereas O’Callaghan Properties have developed the commercial element of the Mahon Point lands (44875sq m shopping centre, adjoining 11 screen multiplex, retail park, hotel and planned convention centre), McCarthy Developments have focused on the waterfront lands across the N25 for residential purposes, Jacob’s Island. Directly across the Douglas River and Atlantic Pond, on the Rochestown waterfront, McCarthy Developments are also developing the 160-unit, lavish Harty’s Quay.

Ridge Developments (contractors to both Jacob’s Island and Harty’s Quay) today erected their first tower crane on site at Jacob’s Island as part of their commencement on the taller waterfront residential buildings. In total, the Jacob’s Island project consists of the construction of 431 residential units made up of; 160 houses and duplex units consisting of 15 no. five bedroom two and three storey detached houses; 7 no. four bedroom two storey detached houses; 16 no. four bedroom three storey semi/terraced houses; 26 no. three or four bedroom two storey semi detached houses; 18 no. two and three bedroom two storey terraced courtyard houses. Also the proposed residential development includes the construction of 78 no. duplex units in 6 no. blocks of three and four storey with; 46 no. two bedroom apartments; 32 no. three bedroom duplex town houses with surface carparking for 87 no. cars; and 271 residential apartments on 8 no. blocks in 4 four storey; 1 five storey and 3 six storey buildings comprising of; 50 no. one bedroom; 212 no. two bedroom; and 9 no. three bedroom apartments with basement car parking for 408 cars with ancillary bicycle/refuse storage facilities, boardwalks and extensive public amenity areas.

Architects for Jacob’s Island are Project Architects, The Priory, John’s Street, Dublin 8. (the same architects responsible for Mahon Point Shopping Centre).

Harty’s Quay images

Sorry for the confusion mickeydocs, but those images are of Harty’s Quay – indicated bythe text beneath them. I probably should have made that more clear.

-> The coming few weeks such prove highly news worthy for Cork property development circles – everything from the announcements of Eglinton Street by O’Flynn Construction to decisions on Werdna Ltd’s Water Street project (fingers majorly crossed! An Taisce have told both myself, CCC and MOLA they plan to bring the project to ABP if it receives grant – I just pray that they do not do this and Water Street is given the greenlight), the Rockfell Investments Cornmarket Street development, O’Callaghan Properties’ Jurys Hotel redevelopment, UCC’s Boole Library Extension (whose decision date has been pushed back despite no objections), John Mannix’s Washington Street development and many others are all expected. Other news will incl. the announcement of the full Mahon Point tenant list, a major announcement by Ward Anderson, decisions on major Kilbree Investments, Carroll’s Quay Development Company, Grangefield Developments and Cumnor Construction projects. As well as construction commencement on the CSM, Grand Parade Plaza, JD Hotels Singers Corner project and many more. Also O’Flynn Construction will be making a short-list of Ballincollig Town Centre tenants. CCC begin work on the Kinsale Road Roundabout Flyover and Ballincollig By-pass will open. There are many other major projects due to be announced but I can’t give anymore details as of yet.

2005 is expected to be among the most active of all years for Cork in terms of development. Hopefully I’ll be able to announce to you some of the most exciting underwraps projects yet to be formally announced soon.

For those curious about these projects – here are some images and information.

Edenhall
By far, one of Cork’s most (if not thee) impressive and stylish student developments. This huge 100m euro (in excess of) project by Cork-based Myraoak Ltd (Michael McCarthy developer and Brian McCarthy Construction) – has incorporated the former Tennis Village sports complex near CIT on the Model Farm Road and developed over 100 exceptionally luxurious S50 apartments of 3, 4 and 5 bedrooms each. The apartments rival even the best residential city centre, riverside development. As part of the complex, there are numerous indoor and outdoor tennis courts, riverside amenities, cafes, bars, themed restaurants, a conference centre, physio centre, sports clinic, retail outlets and so on. However for every Edenhall in Cork we seem to have a Victoria Mills (sigh).

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Ballincollig Town Centre
There’s been much talk but few images of O’Flynn Construction’s 500m euro project at Ballincollig Town Centre. The development will among other things incl. A Shopping Centre with Supermarket, Grocery and Drapery Stores and 36 Retail Units
Over 1000 car Spaces – Surface, Deck and Multi-Storey
Town Centre Retailing with Showrooms, Restaurants and Pubs
Town Centre Apartments nestling in private courtyards
Own Door Offices and Modern Business Units
Tourism Retail Centre
Separate Office Campus
Park Style Hotel
Medical/Clinic Building
Mixed residential Development of detached, semi-detached and village style homes as well as apartments and duplex units.

I hope to get a better image up for you shortly.

Lexington – it was a given even before it was announced that Water St would be brought to ABP by certain obsessed unbalanced people.
There no doubt, some horribly watered down version of the project will get put through – and miss the greatest opportunity to get the docklands off to a positive note. The submission to ABP has probably already been prepared, you know something to the effect “this important and popular area is a valued historical record of economic deprivation, crime and recession and the unremarkable, therefore it demands preservation”.

“this important and popular area is a valued historical record of economic deprivation, crime and recession and the unremarkable, therefore it demands preservation”. [/B][/QUOTE]

Which really translates as “how dare this little village have the tenacity to try to create a commercial core to rival anything in our fine pale”. CCC seem to really be behind this, so let’s hope our local politicians put the foot down on this one.

Strange to see that construction still hasn’t commenced on the School of Music, which seems to have gone all quiet now that there aren’t any elections looming… when is the by-election for Coveney’s seat due?

I’m really looking forward to the Eglinton Road announcement, O’Flynns track record is quite good in terms of quality.

😉 Fleming Construction have been refused planning by ABP for the development of 123 student apartments in 2 six-storey blocks which were to be situated on the hillside grounds of the former Our Lady’s Hospital off Shanakiel Hill. I have to say, I agree with this decision as the proposed development would not only be exceptionally out of character and totally detract from the magnificient Our Lady’s Hospital building, but in terms of market viability – it wouldn’t be the success it should be in light of recent student developments ar Victoria Cross (a far more suitable and convenient location to UCC) of which Rathmelton Investments plan for the Park & Ride site adjacent to the Kingsley Hotel is the largest.

😉 Also on the site of Our Lady’s Hospital, ABP have refused Lance Investments their application for the redevelopment of the Eastern Wing of the former hospital to incorporate 192-apartments and a nearby 232-bedroom hotel. The location for the hotel would have provided spectacular city views but it, and the apartment development are distinctly unsuited to this particular, precious location. Once again, I support the ruling by ABP.

– As anyone who knows me will tell you, I’m a strong advocate for large scale development in Cork, but the above projects should be more focused on city centre and docklands areas – or other locations within the city that don’t injure the few genuine architectural gems we have in Cork city. Cornmarket Street, the Coal Quay, lower Bachelors Quay or Copley Street would be far more suitable centre locations. Hopefully, both Fleming and Lance Investments will reconsider their options and focus their investment toward the city, in which, I wish them every success.

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Originally posted by d_d_dallas
Lexington – it was a given even before it was announced that Water St would be brought to ABP by certain obsessed unbalanced people.
There no doubt, some horribly watered down version of the project will get put through – and miss the greatest opportunity to get the docklands off to a positive note. The submission to ABP has probably already been prepared, you know something to the effect “this important and popular area is a valued historical record of economic deprivation, crime and recession and the unremarkable, therefore it demands preservation”.

Originally posted by mickeydocs “this important and popular area is a valued historical record of economic deprivation, crime and recession and the unremarkable, therefore it demands preservation”.

Interesting. I don’t believe most Dubliners feel like that toward Cork. I think the thought isn’t really ever on their minds – Corkonians probably exaggerate that ideology more than anyone else. From dealing with Dublin based developers, my general feeling is that they don’t really care where the development is as long as it’s profitable first and foremost. However, I do acknowledge that it is a mentality that nonetheless does exist in the minority. It’s a real shame. I think certain people forget that what’s good for Cork, is good for Ireland. Last time I checked, we were all in the same country.

I have little to no respect for An Taisce – I genuinely can’t understand sometimes why they act the way they do toward Cork. It’s very frustrating and exceptionally unfair to not only developers, but the people of Cork. Their behaviour in Cork has made them gain little respect in Cork as a whole – this is true because a interest of mine has researched this and had it independently verified. An Taisce really are troublemakers in Cork at least.

Cork is on the verge of creating a new dynamic commercial and business region in the docklands. Water Street is a vital element of this. As is City Quarter, No.6 and No.6 Lapps Quay, Albert Quay House development (Howard Holdings) and Eglinton Street. I don’t understand why people like An Taisce and CIE are holding something so incredible back. As Howard Holdings have said, Cork with the proper investment has the ability to become Europe’s best value and most dynamic international business city – as distinct from the administrative and national financial base that Dublin is for Ireland. Cork could be a stand alone international financial centre – this is what Howard Holdings among other developers are really pushing forward with. It’s a shame people like An Taisce can’t share and support this vision which will benefit ALL people.

Originally posted by lexington
Cork is on the verge of creating a new dynamic commercial and business region in the docklands. Water Street is a vital element of this. As is City Quarter, No.6 and No.6 Lapps Quay, Albert Quay House development (Howard Holdings) and Eglinton Street. I don’t understand why people like An Taisce and CIE are holding something so incredible back. As Howard Holdings have said, Cork with the proper investment has the ability to become Europe’s best value and most dynamic international business city – as distinct from the administrative and national financial base that Dublin is for Ireland. Cork could be a stand alone international financial centre – this is what Howard Holdings among other developers are really pushing forward with. It’s a shame people like An Taisce can’t share and support this vision which will benefit ALL people.

I quite like the Water St development, it has a lot of urban design quality for sure.

Did An Taisce in Cork object to it?

If so on what grounds?

Contrary to what many of you think, An Taisce in Dublin has little input to the planning process in Cork, it is virtually all handled by the Cork association.

The development of a vibrant urban quarter in Cork better than the first phases IFSC is in everyones interest nationally. I hope that you are able to learn from refinement that the DDDA has undergone in recent years.

Yeah Diaspora, An Taisce objected on the grounds that it would be an aesthetic eye-sore to the Port of Cork area, it would over-shadow existing warehousing on site. I have the submission here in front of me and for the life of me I don’t see exactly where their objection really is. The onsite warehousing, which is derelict, is at huge expense being retained, refurbished and redeveloped for office use. And if anyone is familiar with the Port of Cork, they will well know that if anything, Water Street would be an exceptionally welcome addition to the skyline there. It’s not a very strong argument.

I know I bash An Taisce quite often, but I suppose one must really understand the extent and nature of their activity in Cork. You really do have to be here to realise the grief they cause. I can’t understand it. So, I’m not really knocking the organisation at a national level I suppose, it’s really the Cork branch (who aren’t even from Cork bar 2 members) that are nothing more than troublemakers. Trust me on this one.

What I find remarkable is, that with a number of developments, An Taisce in Cork quite often submit not just one objection – but will submit an object per member on behalf of An Taisce Corcaigh, which truly is shameful. A number of applications receive up to 7 objections from individual members on behalf of their organisation. And if it’s not enough, the appeal to the National Trust in Dublin to lodge a further objection.

Something really must be done about this, I hope the new changes at An Taisce as you’ve mentioned, will address this issue down South. It becomes very tiring and very frustrating.

I too hope to contribute in the development of the Cork Docklands to attain a status such as that which you mentioned above. It will strengthen not only the city and the south at an internationally scale, but will strengthen the country. It inspires quite a lot of excitement among the people of Cork, developers and myself.

An Tasice are a reactionary body. I use that term for any group of people who fetishise the past regardless of the merit of past ideologies, or – in this case – buildings ; and always oppose the modern. There can be much to oppose in modern day architecture, but An Taisce opposes everything – it seems – with no regard to the merits of the new buildings, or the demerits of the old.

As a reactionary body they tend to attract the most reactionary people in the State: Old Money. I suspect that is obvious from the membership of An Taisce in the Cork area ( who are I notice too busy objecting to everything to appear on this board to defend their actions in Cork – I suppose an Internet Bulletin board which attract people interested in architecture from Cork is too beneath them – even if they were, any of them, to own a computer). They are a totally unaccountable and unelected group, unaccountable even to popular discussion on this or any other forum where they could be challenged,, and given a soft ride by the local press which should name them. ( I talk now, in particular of the Cork branch).

As for the preservation of the old buildings like the Warehouses ( or Stack A in Dublin) – it reminds me of a line from ChinaTown.

Jack Nickolson accuses the corrupt politician John Hillerman of being “respectable”. Hillerman responds ( this is a paraphrase cos I’m lazy)

” Respectable. I suppose I am. Crooked politicians, whores, and old buildings all become respectable if they last long enough”

Lexington I’ll send you a copy of the soon to be published ‘Dublin Inspirations’ report on the An Taisce view of contemporary design.

I am sorry to hear that Water St was objected to on aesthetic grounds, I could not have reached that conclusion myself.

The issue of Seven objections is a bit confusing, are all of these objections coming in on headed ‘An Taisce’ paper? or are they ‘personal objections’ on un-acredited paper?

ASDASD, I really couldn’t be bothered trying to reason with such rant.

I assume that the Odlums building and the R&H Hall buildings are protected structures! Does anyone know if they are and in what way are they to be incorporated into the docklands development?

ASDASD,
What you are talking about was discussed in a thread about 6 months ago, if you want to have a look:
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2686&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

I was sorry too. I’d be interested to read the report – I’ll get back to you on that with third party contact information as I’m heading away for 7 days from tomorrow.

The objections are lodged on behalf of organisation members under the An Taisce banner. For example (probably not the best, but an example nonetheless) is the John Mannix office, residential and retail development for Washington Street. -> An Taisce Corcaigh lodged 3 seperate objections ->

CCC Application # 04/28202

KEVIN HURLEY AN TAISCE CORCAIGH, 23/04/2004 23/04/2004
ELAINE NI MUILLEOIR AN TAISCE CORCAIGH, 23/04/2004 26/04/2004
MS. LUCY DAWE LANE AN TAISCE CORCAIGH, 23/04/2004 26/04/2003

That is not fair practice. Shouldn’t the organisation lodge one inclusive and representative submission as oppose to many, if they must? (And I wish they didn’t full stop). But this is the nature of their behaviour in Cork and this is not the worst example of it. All of the above are individual submissions under An Taisce. That said, CCC should refuse to accept more than one submission from any one organisation.

I don’t want to continue ranting on about An Taisce. I use this forum to inform people of Cork developments and I should continue to focus on that. However, sometimes An Taisce Corcaigh just make my blood boil and I need to outlet it. No offence intended to your work at all or to you personally Diaspora.

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A number of interesting developments are due to be announced shortly for Cork.

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*UPDATES*

🙂 Rohcon Ltd erected a new tower crane over the site adjoining Hewitt Mills along the Blackpool By-pass yesterday. The site is owned and beind developed by Joe Carey and Frank Sheehan, who on a site right next door, are nearing completion on their development of 65 apartments in a semi-circular red-brick building of 7-storeys, designed by J.E. Keating & Assoc. This new development is one of further apartments, 44 (after CCC modification), in a line of between 4 and 5 storey blocks.

Originally posted by lexington

The objections are lodged on behalf of organisation members under the An Taisce banner. For example (probably not the best, but an example nonetheless) is the John Mannix office, residential and retail development for Washington Street. -> An Taisce Corcaigh lodged 3 seperate objections ->

You are right there should never be more than one signatory to any observation.

Enjoy your break

It’s lonely in here without Lexington 🙂

I hope he’s back for the Water Street planning announcement, and the Eglinton Road announcement (although he already seems to know what’s gonna be built).

Anyone seen yesterday’s echo in relation to the county council’s draft plan for the growth of the Cork metropolitan region? Is it all pie in the sky for now or is there any meat to it?

Water St isn’t due till 19th of this month (I think) – but it hardly matters as I’d be surprised if it’s not something ABP will be looking at due to certain parties southern branch.

Yes, I saw that report in the Echo. A 13,000 population area near Blarney.

I’d like to know when that proposed dual carriageway from Midleton to Youghal is going to happen. Whoever decided to put traffic lights in Castlemartyr?? The traffic is an absolute nightmare ever since, tailed back for miles on both sides.

I was browsing the on-line planning section and noticed the 5 week period is up for Jurys and there were 21 submissions and 1 representation.

http://planning.corkcity.ie/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=0428705

Dan Boyle TD – is he a Green Party member? So… representation in this case is probably a fancier objection. Get in line with the rest of them!

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
Dan Boyle TD – is he a Green Party member? So… representation in this case is probably a fancier objection. Get in line with the rest of them!

well he’s got to justify his outrageous expense account some how 🙂

Hi guys – been lurking on the periphery for a while but was hoping someone here may have a pointer or two. Simple scenario – major international entertainment company looking to open first Irish outlet in Cork. Require minimum of 25,000 square feet (up to 45,000). Need city centre (footfall) – could be standalone or as part of larger development. Any thoughts on a potential location?

would this, by any chance, be required for a UK based pub/restaurant operation? to hold circa 1200 people?

Capitol Cinema site Grand Parade?
Patrick’s Quay – somewhere?
Loft building, Cornmarket Street?

Upstairs in the Queens Old Castle/?

BTW the Loft on the Coal Quay would be a fantastic site, and is already in a good area for bars/nightclubs and fits in with the regeneration of the area. Don’t know how happy J Bourke would be…

Originally posted by bunch
would this, by any chance, be required for a UK based pub/restaurant operation? to hold circa 1200 people?

Capitol Cinema site Grand Parade?
Patrick’s Quay – somewhere?
Loft building, Cornmarket Street?

Nope guys – not a UK based co. – can’t say anymore though. We looked at Cineplex and were told that a deal was already done for there. Other two suggestions may be worth looking at though – thanks (and keep ’em coming!)

…meant to add that I don’t think the Bodega guys or any other ‘neighbours’ would have a problem with this – quite the opposite in fact. The ‘group’ involved have a very well respected history of working with ‘neighbours’ to improve the ‘lot ‘of all

Does the CoalQuay get that much day time foot traffic?

September 18 2004: A stroll down Cork’s Ramblas
The Irish Times

Where once pedestrians looked “bullied and harassed”, now they are “kings and queens of their own domain”. That’s the verdict of the director of the Crawford Gallery in Cork, Peter Murray, on the remaking of the city’s principal thoroughfare, St Patrick’s Street – or “Pana”, as local people call it. Designed by Catalan architect Beth Gali, the €13 million project boasts that it “brings Barcelona socialism to Cork” by creating a new public realm for everyone. And indeed it does. The footpaths are so broad in places that they qualify as plazas in their own right and the traffic has been reduced from four lanes to two. No wonder it is being officially opened next Wednesday to mark European Car-Free Day. For St Patrick’s Street is a much more lively place these days. Le Chateau, one of its oldest haunts, has outdoor tables – and not just for smokers. People want to be outside on sunny days enjoying the ambience of the street.

http://www.irish-architecture.com/news/2004/000193.html

On the subject of a Cork ‘Point Depot’ I feel there may be a political game being played out in the media over recent months.

Building such a structure at Mahon Point will be of significantly reduced benefit to the city compared to a city centre facility. The site in question is on the small side (never initially intended to be a concert venue – merely a ‘trade’ centre) and would be VERY close to new housing developments with just the one road in to the entire site. If I had just purchased a home down there I think I might well be inclined to object to such a development. However it’s in Mr. O’Cs interest to try and push others into showing their cards. If another group make a move he can reaffirm that ‘only one will be viable’ and can seek to work a new deal with CCC on his site.

As for Horgans Quay my understanding is that the site is too narrow. Have you any idea what kind of a footprint a 5,000 – 6,000 seat venue requires? Unless you want to build something akin to a ‘corridor’ this location won’t do – and that’s before you consider the noise and vibration effects of a large diesel locomotive.

My, reasonably informed, understanding of the Showgrounds proposal is that two structures are proposed. One is the main 6,500 capacity theatre (note I said theatre, not arena since the design shows a theatre-style layout which can be adjusted to allow C.100,000 sq. ft. of floorspace for exhibitions), plus a 2,000-plus seat equestrian/events arena for the Munster Agricultural Sociey. Both of these structures, including ancillary developments would occupy approx. 50% of the site, and a contingency for the GAA to re-develop PuC still leaves a considerable opp. for secondary development. I also believe that traffic management would ensure all access and egress is routed from and to the city thereby assisting the local residents and maximising the benefit to the city.

Is it just me or does one site appear to stand out more than others?

Finally bear in mind that such facilities are costly to build and, as such, are often funded by local government or similar (Odyssey Belfast, MEN Arena Manchester – not included Point here as it’s a private venue which is currently falling down – I believe they’re closing it down for a year). With no sign of CCC offering any financial assistance it will come down to a combination of two things – keeping the build-cost down and maximising the revenue from one of the global operating entities. These factors are the primary reasons why there isn’t such a facility in place already, and may ultimately be the reason why one is not constructed here in the immediate future.

i agree blimp, i think the showgrounds would be the optimum location for a venue of this type, it is highly accessible in terms of vehicular and pedestrian traffic, provides sufficient space, and such a development would be entirely complementary to existing uses, and could incentivise the gaa to start thinking about p ui c before it crumbles into nothingness.

to be honest, id be happy for a concert venue to go almost anywhere but mahon, owen o c can build his convention centre there, but should he really be allowed to drag this type of opportunity out of the city to MP? which is, by the way, beginning to look pretty poor from an aesthetic point of view. shed point more like it.

more i think about it the loft building, would be an excellent location, have a look at the list of sites identified by cork city council in their draft area action plan cornmarket st, available on website, good, comprehensive piece of work here by the way, illustrates development potential of a number of sites in this area.

And surely the loft’s business is better suited to a retail park… this place is never busy and the majority of people just use it as a pathway between two streets. This venue would be excellent, and has close proximity to two multi-storey car-parks (Paul Street and North Main Street), so parking will not be an issue. Add this to the proposed regeneration of the market and the proposed park and the Coal Quay could become one of Cork’s most desirable locations.

Come on the blimp, you know it makes sense 🙂

MP is shaping up to be one of the ugliest shopping centres in the country. Those bright blue corrugated parts! When viewed from Rochestown… it ain’t pretty.

Is the loft building the actual “cornmarket” building of cornmarket st that extends all the way back to North Main St? (including that awful awful awful Coal Qy pub). For years I have thought that a perfect development opp. Can anyone confirm that a few years back Virgin Cinemas (RIP) wanted to put a cinema on that site but local authority told them where to go? Is there some dark secret about planning limitations for this site?

Hello people,

was on a short business/pleasure break. Back home now though.

theblimp, the Loft is a nice venue but I believe its owners, who also own Square Deal on Lancaster Quay, have plans for this site – and may or may not relocate its carpeting business.

Cornmarket Street is a fine location. Especially in light of on-coming developments of the area. Rockfell’s development will cater for up to 120,000 to 130,000sq ft of open plan retail space – with a view to a department store style venue. This is one possible location. Also, the structures at the corner of Kyle St and Cornmarket St are set to go for tender in the near future, this will provide a substantial development opportunity. If you are serious about locations in the city centre, I can discuss it with you at some level with a degree of personalised confidence, details pending. You may find it ‘helpful’.

In addition, Docklands areas provide an exciting new location. Lisney are advertising 3 lots between 2.5acres to 1H along Centre Park Road (former Goldcrop premises). Many sites in this area are going up for private auction now amidst developer speculations. I’ll comment further on this in the future.

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In addition, I agree MP is an uninspired development from a design standpoint and a ‘Point’ style venue – though logistically sound in terms of traffic movement, would be less favourable on the undersized site proposed, plus it is far too close to major new residential developments like Jacob’s Island.

The Showgrounds is good in theory, but the GAA already have their own ideas for this site – ideas which are backed strongly by CCC as they will contribute to the amenity element of the Docklands Development Area which the CCC are so keen to see put in place.

The Railway Street site is the favoured premises and is actually far larger than even I had initially anticipated. One proposal sees a pedestrian bridge like Venue Block A on the Horgan’s Quay grounds, with Block B proposed for development after demolition of existing warehouse premises across Railway St – most of which are now up for tender.

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I’ll discuss this all soon in further detail later – but first I have to shake off this jet-lag. Goodnight!

what is the vision for cork? what is the master plan long term goal of the city? how d want it be i 50 years time and beyond?
Rapid growth and trying to meet a rediculus deadline for developement of the city of culture lark is short sited and ignorant and will only lead to poor shoddy architecture of style over substance that in 10years time will look equally as hidious as all the buildings mentioned above. Cork needs a long term vision, surely thats what we should be working on rather than a takey street by street approach that exists at the moment.

Originally posted by Nick
what is the vision for cork? what is the master plan long term goal of the city? how d want it be i 50 years time and beyond?
Rapid growth and trying to meet a rediculus deadline for developement of the city of culture lark is short sited and ignorant and will only lead to poor shoddy architecture of style over substance that in 10years time will look equally as hidious as all the buildings mentioned above. Cork needs a long term vision, surely thats what we should be working on rather than a takey street by street approach that exists at the moment.

The current strategy(s) for Cork are outlined in both the CASP and Cork Docklands Development Plan, both of which are outlined on the city council and county council websites (corkcorp.ie/corkcoco.ie. These strategies have been agreed by both councils and have also been accepted by the government as part of the National Spatial Strategy. They form a blueprint for the direction of the greater city for the next 20 years.

The strategy in brief is to drive the development of Cork on a metropolitan area which includes all of the satellite towns and ring towns which incorporate greater Cork, an area with a population in excess of 300K.

There is no drive to extend the city for the sake of it. Current development is not aimed at preparing the city for the city of culture, and the development plans mentioned above both have plans outlined for a 20 year period. The city of culture is seen as a catalyst for inviting influential guests to the city and as such the local government has spent money on improving the aesthetic of the city. The city of culture is not been seen by anyone as a means to an end.

The Docklands is in dire need of attention but at the same time provides huge development opportunities. Lapps Quay is currently seeing the majority of developments, and these are the first major developments in the docklands overhaul. The only other city areas which will experience rapid development are the Blackpool and Mahon areas.

Lexington – you wrote
“If you are serious about locations in the city centre, I can discuss it with you at some level with a degree of personalised confidence, details pending. You may find it ‘helpful’.”

Any chance we could take this to somewhere private – tried the ‘contact adminstrator’ option on the messaging option on your profile but it just bounced back

Nick – noone is trying to get the city redeveloped specifically in time for the Capital of Culture – but being conferred that status had certainly proved a catalyst for action.

*UPDATES*

-> Argos & Lifestyle Sports will join anchor tenant Atlantic Homecare at the new 100m euro Blackpool Retail Park being developed by the Shipton Group. The new Argos Extra store will measure 10,000sq ft – twice the size of their existing Grand Parade/Daunt Sq store in the city centre. Lifestyle will occupy a store of 6,000sq ft.

In an unrelated announcement, Toni&Guy Hairdressers are to open a further store at Buckley’s Corner (former Carpet Store) on Washington Street.

-> The Capitol Cineplex on Grand Parade is being given a minor facelift, after coming under sharp criticism from CCC for its dire aesthetics. Ward Anderson had been reluctant to revamp the cineplex in light of future developments for the site. Ward Anderson plan to relocate their business to a new 11-screen multiplex at Mahon Point in Feburary 2005. One rumoured development for the site is a 6-storey over basement retail development with ground floor area of just under 40,000 sq ft – no further info has been received by me on this proposal so I can’t verify anything further.

-> Beamish & Crawford’s HQ on South Main Street is due for a revamp after an application was lodged with CCC for new railing, roof, facade adjustments and paint improvements.

-> Sherland Entertainments Ltd based in Dublin has been successful in their application for the redevelopment of the former Mercier Book Store on Academy Street as an Cafe Bar Deli brand coffeeshop & deli.

-> 21 objections have been raised against Riga Limited (O’Callaghan Properties/Jurys Doyle Group) development plans for Jury’s Hotel site on the Western Road. Of course the usual suspects were involved, An Taisce. After reading some of the grounds for objections, I have to say, some are laughable, but either way, Riga is going to have a tough ride through the planning process. I hope the proposal is successful, although my unease remains with relation to the residential element of the project.

-> For those of you anxious to know what it is O’Flynn Construction have planned for Eglinton Street, yet again, O’Flynn have said their announcement is imminent. And when it is made, if successful, it will be one of the largest construction projects in Cork next year. I have to say however, I would prefer a larger retail element – but last minute revisions may yet surprise me.

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Finally, to theblimp, if you have a public e-mail a/c you could post online, I will contact you thereafter as soon as I am available. Failing that, try setting up a web-based ‘rubbish’ a/c you don’t mind displaying online. I will have to ask you a few questions beforehand through e-mail as I’m sure you can understand (privacy reasons etc).

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P.S. Remember, Werdna Ltd’s plans for Water Street are expecting a decision this coming Wednesday (29th September 2004). The original decision date was scheduled for July, but CCC pushed the date back to September for further deliberation reasons. This is one of the most important planning decisions ever before Cork, let’s all just hope that the decision made will green-light the project. The countdown begins today. Here’s just a little reminder of what we should be hoping for ->

Fingers crossed!

Good man Lexington, it’s been quiet around here without your input.

Originally posted by lexington
*UPDATES*

-> Argos & Lifestyle Sports will join anchor tenant Atlantic Homecare at the new 100m euro Blackpool Retail Park being developed by the Shipton Group. The new Argos Extra store will measure 10,000sq ft – twice the size of their existing Grand Parade/Daunt Sq store in the city centre. Lifestyle will occupy a store of 6,000sq ft.

In an unrelated announcement, Toni&Guy Hairdressers are to open a further store at Buckley’s Corner (former Carpet Store) on Washington Street.

-> The Capitol Cineplex on Grand Parade is being given a minor facelift, after coming under sharp criticism from CCC for its dire aesthetics. Ward Anderson had been reluctant to revamp the cineplex in light of future developments for the site. Ward Anderson plan to relocate their business to a new 11-screen multiplex at Mahon Point in Feburary 2005. One rumoured development for the site is a 6-storey over basement retail development with ground floor area of just under 40,000 sq ft – no further info has been received by me on this proposal so I can’t verify anything further.

-> Beamish & Crawford’s HQ on South Main Street is due for a revamp after an application was lodged with CCC for new railing, roof, facade adjustments and paint improvements.

-> Sherland Entertainments Ltd based in Dublin has been successful in their application for the redevelopment of the former Mercier Book Store on Academy Street as an Insomnia brand coffeeshop & deli.

-> 21 objections have been raised against Riga Limited (O’Callaghan Properties/Jurys Doyle Group) development plans for Jury’s Hotel site on the Western Road. Of course the usual suspects were involved, An Taisce. After reading some of the grounds for objections, I have to say, some are laughable, but either way, Riga is going to have a tough ride through the planning process. I hope the proposal is successful, although my unease remains with relation to the residential element of the project.

-> For those of you anxious to know what it is O’Flynn Construction have planned for Eglinton Street, yet again, O’Flynn have said their announcement is imminent. And when it is made, if successful, it will be one of the largest construction projects in Cork next year. I have to say however, I would prefer a larger retail element – but last minute revisions may yet surprise me.

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Finally, to theblimp, if you have a public e-mail a/c you could post online, I will contact you thereafter as soon as I am available. Failing that, try setting up a web-based ‘rubbish’ a/c you don’t mind displaying online. I will have to ask you a few questions beforehand through e-mail as I’m sure you can understand (privacy reasons etc).

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P.S. Remember, Werdna Ltd’s plans for Water Street are expecting a decision this coming Wednesday (29th September 2004). The original decision date was scheduled for July, but CCC pushed the date back to September for further deliberation reasons. This is one of the most important planning decisions ever before Cork, let’s all just hope that the decision made will green-light the project. The countdown begins today. Here’s just a little reminder of what we should be hoping for ->

Fingers crossed!

😀 Thanks mickeydocs! Still shaking off the jet-lag but I’ll try and get back on track proper soon! 😉

Hi Lexington – I’ve activated the e-mail feature on my ‘profile’ so if you wish to send something to me at that I’ll come right back to you. I’ll leave this option ‘active’ for a day or so.

At the end of the day, were I to decide, I would most likely favour this development – for reasons of aesthetics, regeneration, jobs and in-line with some of the Cork City Development Plan principles – however (and I never ever thought I’d find myself in agreement with a Green Party TD), I have to say, I have an air of suspicion about this project. The current number of rooms in Jurys Hotel Cork is 185 (159 Standard, 23 Executive, 2 Junior Suites and 1 Presidential). The new development proposes a hotel of 182 bedrooms (3 fewer) and 303 luxury apartments. Though I deem the design of the project acceptable, the economics is curious. If Jurys had intended to extend its operations in Cork (as declared in Feburary 2004), why is it in fact reducing its own capacity? And furthermore, reducing its direct investment policy in the city? (Preferring a more removed lease basis at 2m euro p.a.). Furthermore, with 84% of all large scale construction in Cork related to apartments (currently almost 2,000 of which in planning or in mid-construction, are aimed squarely at the luxury market – i.e. 285,000euros and up) is the addition of a further 303 luxury end apartments at this location truly viable? Of the 325,000 metropolitan Cork and 498,000 greater Cork city area citizens, how many can afford in excess of 285,000euros each for over 2,000 current and an additional 2,500 projected luxury end apartments? Thats 4,500 city centre apartments spaces all in excess of 285,000 euros – and not including car parking spaces which range in Cork city anywhere between 25,000 to 80,000 euros. Residential Demand in Cork city remains above average, although the majority of this demand (65%) is among lower to middle income persons. A recent article in the Irish Examiner stated that waiting lists and demand as a whole had increased – this is true, but the main increase was among the aforementioned income groups, which found that new market supply was being provided at a sale price above their sustainable repayment levels. As prices continue to increase more and more persons find themselves applying for more affordable and often sub-standard accomodation. I support Riga Ltd’s proposal on the basis, that such a large-scale investment requires extensive market research and clearly, at some level, the market must be egging them on. Although my own research has found such a demand, it is a far more controlled demand than these large-scale developments seem to represent. I support any project that will bring greater residency back into the city, but to do this, building accomodation simply isn’t enough. A city has to entice people back into its realms by providing the services (retail, nightlife, sports & leisure, aesthetics, transport and unrivalled working environments) in order for people to have incentive to want to take up this accomodation. I believe we need greater services investment in the city to balance the supply of residential complexes. However, the Cork market currently seems to have an insatiable appetite for all things apartments – I just worry about its sustainability without further services investment. Mahon Point, Academy Street and Blackpool isn’t enough.

Oddly, I feel the Water Street development (though accomodation based) will provide an incentive for further services investment with relation to the docklands, and this is what we need. However, I do believe the Jurys development, will be beneficial if it is successful (and it probably will, O’Callaghan rarely invest in something unless they’re gauranteed a return) because increased city centre residency should spur further services investment.

Whilst I see Boyle’s point, I think it is perhaps niaive to expect a major company not to maximise the potential of any site it possesses. I’ve never stayed in Jurys but I’m told that it’s outdated and desperately in need of a face lift. It would seem inevitable that any large scale renovation would involve shuttin gthe hotel anyway. Perhaps a hotel in Cork is not viable with more than 180 bedrooms, perhaps it is but the fact is that, if you jump into bed with a developer of OCP’s reputation, you can guarantee that the final plot ratio is as close to a max as possible.

*UPDATES*

-> For those of you familiar with the classic Cork night-venue, the Maltings Emporium, Mardyke Tavern and Club FX complex, after 8 months on the marketplace and an initial tender price of 4m euro, the facility has been sold to UK (Newcastle) based Ultimate Leisure (Ireland) Ltd for 5m euros. Ultimate Leisure own 28 night-venues across the UK and 4 in Northern Ireland. They plan to exstensively renovate the complex before re-opening it early next year (subject to a possible planning application). Former owner, Frank Sheahan of FV Sheahan Auctioneers on Marlboro Street, had decided to sell the complex to focus on his property development career – which so far includes the Lancaster Hall student complex on Lynch Street (adjacent to the Maltings), and with Joe Carey (developer of the 100m euro Fota Island Retail Park and Business Complex), a number of large apartment and commercial buildings at Hewitt Mills along the Blackpool By-Pass.

-> On a related note, rumour has it, that Frank Sheahan, who had been using the services of PJ Hegarty Contractors for his Lancaster Hall and Blackpool By-Pass/Assumption Road apartment development (designed by JE Keating in a 7-storey semi-circular, red-brick shape) has opted for Rohcon to develop the new row of apartment buildings adjacent to the JE Keating designed block. This is evident from the erection of the Rohcon tower crane on site earlier this month. The apparent reason is down to the fact that the developer had fallen out with PJ Hegarty after the firm failed to meet a completion deadline of September for the Lancaster Hall project, which was due to receive residents at the start of the university academic year. The project is yet to be complete and as a result, the developer will not be able to receive rents in full until the following academic year – unless students can be persuaded otherwise. Either way, it could be very difficult. Rohcon have begun the construction of 44 new apartments on the Hewitt Mills site, which will see a line of between 4 and 6 storey buildings erected.

-> At Carroll’s Quay, OSB (Neil O’Sullivan) has been granted permission after ABP appeal for Phase 2 of his residential, theatre and licensed bar development. ABP granted permission for 49 of the proposed 55 apartments, along with new Cork Arts Theatre and Pa Johnsons pub. A suggestion was made by ABP to extend either the theatre or bar through the ommission of 3 ground floor apartments. The project, Phase 1 and Phase 2 are designed by James Leahy & Assoc.

– for those of you who think I knock An Taisce Corcaigh too often and unfairly, the CCC and ABP reports on their objections to this OSB Phase 2 project offer very good justification for my complaining and clearly display their petty behaviour in Cork (although, and I can assure you, this report is one of their better ones. An Taisce objections are often far more ludicrous.) To read this very common sensical report by ABP and CCC. Follow this link -> http://planning.corkcity.ie/letters/upload/25092004-J69H-210333Tp27769.doc

– a few years ago, a similar project was refused permission by ABP on this same site (at the time being developed by Carroll’s Quay Development Group). The architects were O’Riordan Staehli. Here’s an image of what could have gone up had there been no refusal. Note, the surroundings have VASTLY changed since with numerous office and apartment buildings having been erected in the immediate surrounding areas.

The new OSB development greenlighted is noted in the report for its striking and likeable design.

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Just in response to burge_eye’s above remark -> Howard Holdings have developed a 200 bedroom hotel, operated by Choice Hotels under the Clarion brand, for Lapps Quay. Lance Investments have been recently refused planning by ABP for a 232-bedroom hotel on the Lee Road. Michael O’Donoghue (Rockfell Investments) were refused by ABP after grant from CCC for the development of a 9-storey 400 bedroom hotel on Cornmarket Street – and 2 other very prominent developments are considering the addition of 100 more bedrooms to their hotel elements (one being operated by Hilton) of 150 bedrooms each. I don’t think viability is the question – which makes the reduction in numbers at Jurys even more curious. However I do agree about the naivity of space maximisation by Dan Boyle – it makes logical sense for a developer to maximise it. However, his objection is related to traffic movements in the area – and I do take his point, the Western Road/Lancaster Quay/Washington Street is exceptionally congested even at the best of times. Riga Ltd will have to carefully consider its traffic management options for the Jurys site. 2 bridges will serve the development and the majority of parking will be residential, hopefully the city centre location will encourage public transport and walking means.

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🙂 Pierse Contractors today erected a tower crane over the UCC School of Pharmacy site on College Road, this marks the initiation of primary construction on the long awaited project. Completion of the 3-storey, 60,000sq ft development is due for late next year.

🙂 One of the most exciting projects to get going near the docklands is making real headway. The Corbett Bros. office and residential development on Copley Street (just across Cotter Street from the new Howard Holdings development of offices (incl. Anglo Irish Bank’s new regional HQ) and residential units, designed by Scott Tallon Walker (who also have taken up offices in the development). The new Corbett Bros. development was designed by PRC Architects Ireland and is being built by Coffey Construction. The components of a new tower crane are on site ready for imminent erection – this will help complete the 2 new 5-storey office/residential blocks planned for the site, linked together over a central courtyard by a 5th storey physical link.

🙁 On a slightly less inspiring note, CCC have pushed the decision date for Aldi Developments retail and 48 duplex development on Tory Top Road, Cork back until an unprecendented date of 20/6/2005!!! This is a very odd move by CCC – this will see the application in the planning process with CCC for almost a full year – and that’s before any possible ABP appeals!

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REMEMBER: 3 DAYS REMAIN UNTIL THE WATER STREET DEVELOPMENT’S DECISION DATE IS DUE FOR WERDNA LTD. Keep your fingers crossed this Wednesday!

To the surprise of many, especially myself, the developers – Werdna Ltd – and architects of the Water Street project (Murray O’Laoire) withdrew their planning application for the landmark development with only a day before a decision was due.

The application was launched to a fanfare almost 6 months ago and had been expected to receive a decision tomorrow (Wednesday 29th of September 2004). I have to say I’m very disappointed and will be in contact with the developers for an insight into such a move. I’ll keep you posted when I find out the entirety of the details involved.

🙁

Very disappointing – perhaps they heard that there were a lot of objections.

It seems very strange to withdraw their application just before the decision was due. Maybe they had heard it was to be rejected and thought it would be better not to allow it to get to that point, with a view to resubmitting revised plans at a later stage?

After a brief discussion with the developers and architects – it seems that the original Water Street plan rose a number of sticking points with which the Planning Authority could not find any reasonable compromise with the developer. The application was withdrawn as to avoid a possible refusal – as it is the intention of Werdna to resubmit a revised application in the very near future of a similar scale and design. The architect assures me that the unique features that were so central to the original submission (i.e. the 19-storey centrepiece tower) will remain incorporated into the new application. I’m anxious to view the new application and see where it differs. Watch this space.

(and yes I am aware that is the worst subject heading ever – I shocked myself typing it!)

so they’ve been told what they need to do to get planning?

I’d be curious to know which aspects of this proposal the local authority didn’t agree with.

”the project was withdrawn in order to submit a new scheme in the near future.
We have been in a period of intense negotiation with the Planning Authority since it was lodged in May last. There were a number of aspects of the scheme that were particular sticking points that the Planning Authority felt that could not be dealt with by means of conditions or additional information, so therefore , we opted to withdraw the scheme and return with a new one rather than accept a refusal. The basic concept, design, scale of the development will be more or less the same, however, it is hoped that CCC will be in a better position to support the new scheme as we believe in going forward to An Bord Pleanala(which with a scheme of such a scale is almost inevitable)with a positive response from the local Authority.”

– from Murray O’Laoire Architects

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*UPDATES*

🙂 Developers Barry Collins and Clayton Love’s company Piton Properties have announced their detailled plans for a 100m euro Carrigaline Town Centre project. The project will include a large multiplex, town square, shopping district, showrooms, public amenity area, bowling complex, offices, entertainment centre, 900 covered car parking spaces and riverside walk. The development will be constructed on the site of the former Carrigaline Pottery complex and a parcel of 26-acres adjoining. I’ll have images up soon.

🙂 Coffey Construction have erected a tower crane on site over the Corbett Bros. large office and residential development on Copley Street signalling the commencement of primary construction. The development will consist of 75 basement car parking spaces (revised by CCC from 93 spaces), a ground floor commercial restaurant and gym, 5640sq m of office space and 38 apartments.

Originally posted by mickeydocs
so they’ve been told what they need to do to get planning?

I think from the posts after this Mickydocs that you have hit the nail on the head. I know people who object to projects get a really bad name as being begrudgers and of just slowing the planning process up, but in all fairness the system is fundamentally flawed in that the public have no real imput into the planning process bar making objections after months of consultation between the develpers and the council.

Well today should have been the day we received word on the planning decision for Water Street – but as previously reported (and reported exclusively) – developers Werdna Ltd withdrew their application a day before the decision with an intention of resubmitting a similar proposal with a few amendments.

I sincerely hope the 19-storey tower at the centre of the development isn’t sacrificed, it would provide an excellent eastern gateway into Cork city – as County Hall provides such a gateway to the west.

But for those of you left disappointed about Water Street, I have some hopefully positive news about a potential development I reported on not so long ago for the site of the Capitol Cineplex on Washington Street/Grand Parade…

…I am well informed that Ward Anderson are negotiating with developers the possibility of transforming the cineplex site into a first-rate shopping venue (see previous post). Initial reports indicated a 6-storey over basement retail centre with bars, nightclubs and basement ice-rink. Although some revisions have been made to these plans – the centre is to be aimed at the mid to upper retail market (e.g. a retailler like Sisley, H&M or Espirit and so on). The development will be designed to provide a landmark, world-class structure providing an impressive view when looked at down along Washington Street. Although nothing is yet set in stone – I thought it might be a source of cheering up after Water Street (at least until the new application is submitted). Other options being considered by Ward Anderson include simply selling the site altogether to a private developer and maintaining no involvement. 2 developers I am aware of have tried for the site (also with retail plans) but have been told they faced ‘Deal Agreed’. This status will remain until Ward Anderson confrim their intentions with the site. You won’t get this news anywhere else.

As promised, I have here an image of the proposed 100m euro Carrigaline Town Centre project – which has just be lodged for permission with Cork County Council. The developers are Barry Collins and Clayton Love, through their company Piton Properties.
http://corkdevelopments.bravehost.com/ppctc.jpg

Also, below is an image of the OSB (Neil O’Sullivan of Aceville Construction/Investments) development on Carroll’s Quay/Camden Quay/Knapps Square. I have referred to this project in a prior post above. The 2nd Phase of this development was just greenlighted by ABP after objection from An Taisce. The 1st phase of the development is already under construction (Phase 1 is the lower level section to the right of the image). Architect is James Leahy & Assoc. Building Contractors are John F. Supple Ltd.
http://corkdevelopments.bravehost.com/osbcqd.jpg

:rolleyes: I apologise for the quality of these images, as my scanner is never up to much, even on a good day – and the graphics attained by me from the developers and architects are too large to load to any one server/host.

The host of the development images is now refusing to permit remote links. To view the images, copy & paste the links into your address bar – then press enter.

sorry lexington can’t view the images, getting remote linking of images not allowed!!

cheers for all the info though

Looks like an American mall, or indeed, an American “city centre”. Cupertino in Cork.

The Carrigaline project has “Second Rate Clayton Love Bland” stamped all over it. Interesting to see “only” 900 car spaces for what is (according to CSO) the most car dependent community in Ireland.

The Carroll’s Qy dev doesn’t look too bad at all. That area badly needs something interesting.

*UPDATES*

🙂 City Manager Joe Gavin has reportedly given the hint that Rockfell Investments Cornmarket Street Retail and Residential Development will be green-lighted. He sights the importance of the project and a hope that the project will come under construction as soon as possible. My own indications confirm that Rockfell is being championed by many at Navigation House (the Planning Dept) – although there are a number of conditions associated with the grant. I never get too confident about these things – but it is looking very favourable. The renewed design submitted in a Significant Further Information report to the CCC from Frank Ennis & Assoc on behalf of Rockfell Investments has won me over far more than the original plan. Although it could have been so much more.

🙁 O’Callaghan Properties (Riga Limited) have seen the decision date on their application for a huge development at the Jurys Hotel site on the Western Road in Cork pushed back until the 16th December 2004. Such a move was pretty much expected. The original decision date was due for the 10th of October (next week). The application is having a bumpy ride through planning – but it seems to have its champions at City Hall. With the number of objections lodged against the project, a grant may see the development brought before ABP. Its a shame really, but we’ll just have to wait and see.

:confused: Werdna Ltd and Murray O’Laoire have expressed their disappointed at having to withdraw their Water Street application – and have made an ever so slight critique of the planning process. However, they said their decision to withdraw rather than face refusal shows that they are committed to establishing such a landmark docklands development. Murray O’Laoire said that they intend to keep a landmark, highrise tower as part of the development – and also said both they and the developers will fight to maintain the same height of tower as in the original proposal. However other development aspects need to be addressed – in particular traffic management issues. This being so, Werdna do not expect to submit a new application until the start of next year, 2005.

🙂 Frinailla Developments Ltd intend to re-submit a new application, albeit scale-down, for their Blackpool Residential and Commercial development on the Watercourse Road. The development will closely resemble their original plan but has a number of design alterations to reduce overall height – among the predominant reasons the application was originally refused by CCC and ABP.

🙂 Cain White Piling & Foundations Ltd have commenced preliminary work on-site at the Kingsley Hotel at Victoria Cross/Carrigrohane Straight Road. The work heralds the beginning of construction for the Rathmelton Investments 50m euro hotel, aparthotel and student accomodation development – designed by Murray O’Laoire.

The development will provide one of the largest student developments in, not only Cork, but the country as a whole – with 116 apartments (515 bedrooms) in an arrangement of 5-storey buildings totalling 14068sq m (over 151,000sq ft), 840sq m (9,000sq ft) of retail, restaurant and laundry facilities, over 10,000sq m (101,000sq ft) of extension space for 82 additional bedrooms to the Kingsley Hotel, 10,000sq ft of new conference facilities, 6,000sq ft of additional leisure facilities, a new 19-unit aparthotel and a massive, 2-level basement for over 740 car-parking spaces. A riverside amenity walk and recreation area will also form part of the development.

The first line of student residencies are expected to come on-stream for the UCC academic year 2005/6.

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😉 Meanwhile, directly across the road from the Kingsley Hotel, Michael & James O’Driscoll, owners of the Village Student Complex are pressing ahead with their 17 apartment extension to the existing facility.