Look at de state of Cork, like!
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Lex, just to clarify re the ESSO stations for sale, the one in Douglas called Dunmahon is definetely for sale with CRBE Gunne, i sawa the signs up this morning
rock on the docklands news, fingers and toes crossed for the O Flynns tower now, and whatever further good news you’re hinting at
Lexington, regarding the Water St dev – visually, is it merely a slimmed down version of the original proposal?
The revised proposal isn’t far removed from the original – I’ve only seen drawings (2 months old), I am awaiting a copy of the EIS (with attached VIS) for later this week, early next week. But if I get images sooner, I’ll post them. From my understanding, a number of aspects have since been adjusted – I was only kept updated on the statistics of the project since I first saw those drawings – so I am myself interested to see how exactly the end product now looks.
The tower element has been reduced by 2 floors (for issues of ‘balance’) but it’s height has not altered much (58m), it has more to do with a reduction in apartment numbers which have in total been cut by 96 units (satisfying density qualms by CCC), the wing elements either side are reduced in height on some elevations as a comparison to the original – and more emphasis has been placed on public space – a more detailled internal road system has also been adopted. Some general design changes have been made but I don’t want to jump the gun and try to detail the specifics based on my standing knowledge – I’ll wait for the VIS and let you see for yourself when I can.
As reported earlier, Cork’s newest landmark- the pedestrian bridge at the Mardyke was slotted into place on Monday evening. I’ve attached a picture. Many more images of the bridge can be found at http://www.environmentireland.com
With regard to the Water Street development: It looks identical to the original which frankly I could take our leave. It just doesnt grab me.😡 I received a call today outlining the Further Information request regarding Eglinton Street – as it also happens, the Irish Examiner also had an article based on similar information.
The exaggerated headline in the Irish Examiner read; “Council rejects tower!” a mild overstatement… :rolleyes:
Originally I was told that the issue was somewhat rectifiable – that was the opinion of CCC. However O’Flynn Construction (OFC) would not be in agreeance. The second Further Info request is now seeking to reduce basement car-parking from 553 spaces to about 127 (1.5:1 to .53:1) – which quite frankly is utterly ridiculous. Planner Evelyn Mitchell states the parking numbers are in contravene to the City Development Plan – that’s not entirely true. Also, a worry was expressed about teh scale of the development (not including the tower element which seems to have escaped so far the brunt of any disagreement). Michael O’Flynn is now seeking a meeting with Joe Gavin (City Manager) to rectify the situation – he is understandbly upset. OFC spent the good part of a year working with CCC Planners on the details of the project – everything was discussed from the height, scalem density and parking – all issues, after strenuous negotiation were agreed upon – and now, CCC seem to be taking a bit of a U-turn. The City Development Plan seeks to limit the number of short-term parking numbers in the city centre by use of car-parks (multi-storey and basement) with the CCA (Core Commercial Area) of which Eglinton Street is a part. However, the majority of occupancy in the development will be long-term residency parking – OFC note the importance of saleability (and thus viability) such provision allows. Furthermore, because the area around the former An Post site is heavily trafficked and the development also proposes retail and office uses – short-term parking is almost impossible in the immediate surrounding areas, plus, any such parking there available would prove a potential safety hazard given the lack of pedestrian provision and intensity of traffic flows in the area. By incorporating the parking facility within the development, OFC are providing a ‘safety island’ in which shoppers, gym go-ers and office employees can safely avail of the facilities. Parking provision is further being made for employees of nearby No.5 and No.6 Lapps Quay which has no existing parking allowance, unlike nearby City Quarter. Eglinton Street is falling in-line with CCC Development Policy in make a quantity of such provision available to service the nearby developments. Also, the retail facilities included in the Eglinton Street development are being earmarked for heavy bulky retail goods – at CCCs request, which is anxious to see such retailling moved from the city centre (and heavy goods vehicles by extension) to areas such as Eglinton Street which does not penetrate the city centre retail area and facilitates traffic well. The parking is essential for consumer welfare in loading and offloading such bulky goods (e.g. furniture) – as well as allowing for proper servicing of such facilities. CCC don’t seem to be understanding the issues here clearly – and are completely ignoring the passing-trade element of the project in retail and offices which is specified as the required ground-floor use in new developments within the CCA – that’s stated by CCC in their Development Plan 2004 itself! By disbanding such facilities to compensate for reduced parking and development scale, OFC would then in fact be conflicting with Development Plan guidelines. Can anyone see the problem here??? It’s absurd planning on behalf of CCC – they are holding back a decent project which will dramatically help further the aesthetics, economy and development of Cork into a modern, confident city.
I really hope OFC are vindicated on this one (they’ve been treated poorly and carelessly since the get-go on this one) – but then again, they’re meeting with Joe Gavin – the man who decided half-way through he’d rather an office development on the site. Not good enough CCC.
I really don’t think planners are aware of the brilliant opportunity their messing about with here. This may be a first-party ABP job here – that is if OFC don’t withdraw the application fearing a negative outcome and/or list of conditions. I hope City Manager talks resolve this a.s.a.p.
IF and hopefully WHEN the project does get the go-ahead, the development will be constructed in 2 phases (after initial phase basement preparations) with 2 very tall tower cranes erected on site – the tower and western elevation will be completed first, and soon after, the southern and eastern phases will be later complete. The more I assess this project, the more impressed I am with it.
And furthermore, CCC are now up in arms about the lack of a Skateboard Park being provided for Cork’s many young skaterboarding fanatics. In fairness to Joe Gavin, he did his best on this one – a park was earmarked for Kennedy Park but subsequently shot-down by an almost 2 to 1 vote by city councillors against such a project. Now, the very same people are fuming and complaining that there is no park in place!!! The ineptitude of Cork City Council grows ever frustrating! 😡Lex, who does the PR for CCC? All this talk about Cork pulling it’s socks up and renewing etc has created a sentiment that things have changed within the planners office. Certainly at management level. But it seems that more and more NOTHING HAS CHANGED. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m starting to get the impression that the Cork of 2015 will strongly resemble the Cork of 1995.
@d_d_dallas wrote:
Lex, who does the PR for CCC? All this talk about Cork pulling it’s socks up and renewing etc has created a sentiment that things have changed within the planners office. Certainly at management level. But it seems that more and more NOTHING HAS CHANGED. I hope I’m wrong, but I’m starting to get the impression that the Cork of 2015 will strongly resemble the Cork of 1995.
I don’t know who steers the PR for CCC. Cork has made substantial development progress – and for a while, it really did seem as though the Planners had made such progress too. Joe Gavin, when he first came, in conjunction with Ronnie McDowell (Senior Planner), seemed to help bring a breath of fresh air to the city’s development scene – but now things have seemed to slip back into the ‘old ways’ yet again. The exception to all this seems so far to be that of new planner Michael Lynch who has in his short-time made some very forward thinking and fair planning decisions – I hope he doesn’t get caught down in the new office. If CCC are going to fall back into old habits, then Cork’s bright future may be a lot harder to make shine. 🙁
Personally, I think the Irish planning process is a complete joke. As a member of the public, I am generally left completely in the dark about these projects, their implications and the possibilities or problems they will create for the city.
Surely city planning should be a very open and public process that engages the population with the development plan. It seems that these planners operate in isolation and impose decisions from upon high almost like some sort of Soviet style design bureau.
As for the track record of planning departments. CCC’s planning department seem to have drastically held up development for no good reason while at the same time have granted permission to some hideous and totally inappropriate developments over the years.
The whole process needs to be opened up and made much more public.
Thanks to all the corruption in the Dublin area leading to the various tribunals our elected representatives seem to be largly shut out of the planning process or afraid to get involved too.
New developments of this scale should be highly publicised, models put on display, articles published in the papers etc etc…
It seems it only happens after the decisions are made.
Unfortunately, I haven’t got the VIS of the revised Water Street scheme by Werdna Ltd, so I have here a press image giving a south-to-north perspective of the development across the Lee. The images here display pretty much the same as the drawings I attained a few months ago. The only difference however is the set-back of the development from the water-front by approx. 6 metres (north) and the tower has been shift east to alleviate over-shadowing concerns of Lower Glanmire Road residents. The layout is now a little more uneven – with blocks of 3 to 8/9 storeys now in the formation 1,2,3, Tower, 5 as oppose to the more balanced 1,2, Tower, 4, 5. The changes were made to ease LGR concerns. It’s a pity really because the symmetry was nice in the original – but there you have it, CCC making another cock-up and Cork being left with a less-superior project (though it’s still one of my favourite).
Compare this to the original (below)
There is less massing at the base of the tower, which gave the building a more even-handed quality look – and the tower was position to the west of the patented slipway. The revised tower looks ‘skinnier’ and seems to have less strength in its form. The dis-balance in layout is less pleasant also. A new riverside walkway replaces the much more pleasing boardwalk, which took greater advantage of the riverside, as proposed by the original.
Must say Lexington, they both look as unimaginative as each other from those photomontages. Although in fairness it is always hard to tell what a development will look like from images like those. Any details on materials to be used etc etc?
Thanks,
Phil
@lexington wrote:
😡
And furthermore, CCC are now up in arms about the lack of a Skateboard Park being provided for Cork’s many young skaterboarding fanatics. In fairness to Joe Gavin, he did his best on this one – a park was earmarked for Kennedy Park but subsequently shot-down by an almost 2 to 1 vote by city councillors against such a project. Now, the very same people are fuming and complaining that there is no park in place!!! The ineptitude of Cork City Council grows ever frustrating! 😡
As i pointed out a few weeks ago, there is now no access to the Court House on Washington Street through the main doors (i.e. up the steps) this has left the steps useless and empty,. Hence, skateboarders have taken over and CC Councillors get their knickers in a twist. Open up those doors again and use the steps for what they were build for!
I don’t want to sound like a grumpy old man…. but, it would be fine if the skateboarders just did a bit of skating, but they have covered the outer wall of the Crawford art Gallery in Graffiti and part of the Opera House Facade. Doesnt really get people on their side when it comes to building skate parks.AIB have submitted plans to demolish their existing branch on Watercourse Road, Blackpool. They plan to construct a two storey bank building, move atm facility and provide staff car parking at the rear.
At the same time, Frinailla ltd. have submitted further info. for their Lady’s Well development also on Watercourse Road, Blackpool. Haven’t seen this yet. Anybody got any info. on it?
Close by., a number of large apartment/Office buildings are taking shape on the Blackpool Bypass. More are planned.
Also, the new archive building is taking shape on Gt. William Obrien St., Still haven’t found a proper image of this 😡
Looks like the old heart of Blackpool is finally being paid attention to. Too much focus has been placed on the “new town centre”, leaving the rest of the area to become run down. I notice Dundrum are also suffering from the “new town centre” syndrome this week :confused:
It reminds me of the Simpson’s episode where Homer becomes sanitation officer and fills the town with illegally dumped rubbish. The City Council call a meeting and decide to use PLAN B. Whats plan B?? Pick up the town and move it a couple of miles down the road….. sound familiar?@Radioactiveman wrote:
Also, the new archive building is taking shape on Gt. William Obrien St., Still haven’t found a proper image of this 😡
Better late than never getting back to you on this one – but I genuinely have been keeping pretty busy of late. After meeting and viewing the designs for the Archives Building (which, on a point of interest, way back when, was originally proposed for a redeveloped R&H Hall along Kennedy Quay) – the City Architects office didn’t have any compatible image format to post online and the drawings were too big to scan – but the building itself is only so-so. Neither stunning nor bland – nonetheless, it will add to Great William O’Brien Street in some capacity. C.A. is getting onto imaging about e-mailling me out a compressed .jpeg for the forum – so sorry about the wait, but I can’t get it to viewing any sooner than the speed at which they can deliver the image. I haven’t been down to see the building yet myself – but I’m told it’s at a ‘progressive stage’ in its construction so it may be worth popping down that region for a look yourself. But I wasn’t forgetting RM. 😮
I really don’t think planners are aware of the brilliant opportunity their messing about with here. This may be a first-party ABP job here – that is if OFC don’t withdraw the application fearing a negative outcome and/or list of conditions. I hope City Manager talks resolve this a.s.a.p.
I doubt OFC will withdraw their application to be honest Lexington.. Especially since they’ve put so much time and effort into the whole project. Lets hope the city planners come to their senses. Every appartment needs at least one car space, not a half 😡
I’d say if OFC aren’t successful with CCC, we could see them going to An Bord Pleanála.. Which would be a real pity and so time consuming.. Lets hope they do’t have to go down this road 🙂
Is the “Water Street” development where the builders supply yard and Harbour Commissioners area used to be – i.e. across Water Street from Horgan’s Quay?
Looking at a map of Cork Water Street has no quayside which is why I asked.
I used to wonder about running the Cobh-Midleton line at grade with an LC across Water Street, through that area and along a slightly elevated line along the river bank, reclaiming land beyond the end of the quay where the pub is to make a smooth riverfront, through the Tivoli gardens and rejoining the Midleton line at a new Tivoli suburban station. This would have eliminated the need for the railway bridge on the Lower Glanmire at Water Street and the horrible skew bridge at Tivoli. Of course if I had that kind of power 😀 I would have removed McCormick McNaughton from opposite Silversprings and eliminated the bottleneck at the end of the Dual Carriageway, and extending the DC or used a tidal flow 2+1 system to terminate at Water Street.
Today I received an EIS, VIS, Design Outline and Proposal Details in full regarding the revised Water Street development by Werdna, designed by Murray O’Laoire. I’ve read through the development thoroughly, besides the fact that the application is presented excellently – I have to say, though my first preference would be with the original application, this revised proposal is still really good stuff. Even assessing the VIS, one can see how valuably the development would contribute to the docklands and Cork city as a whole. Approaching the development from Dunkettle and along the Lower Glanmire Road, the development looks nothing short of eye-catching. I should sincerely hope the project gets the greenlight unequivocally.
Unfortunately, for the time being, I have been asked that no VIS graphics be displayed on this forum. So this will be respected for the moment.
@dowlingm wrote:Is the “Water Street” development where the builders supply yard and Harbour Commissioners area used to be – i.e. across Water Street from Horgan’s Quay?
Indeed it is. The development will construct a public quayside amenity facility as part of the whole package.
*UPDATES*😡 I can’t get my head around Cork City Council’s Planning Department lately – some of its decisions have been nothing short of utterly pathetic and disgraceful.
Note the decision made today by CCC regarding O’Shea Builders Ltd plans to redevelop its former storage site on Farranlea Road near Victoria Cross. The development originally proposed the following:
demolition of existng single storey workshop & adjoining store & construct a mixed res. development of 86 dwlngs comprising 28 1-bed apts, 44 2-bed apts, 6 3-bed penthouse apts, 6 3-bed duplexes & 2 4-bed duplexes & associated site development works. Blocks A,B & C located towards the northern side of the site to be linked bldgs 5 storeys high over a basement carpark & to contain 54 apts. Block D located on the western side of the site & to be a 4 storey high bldg over the basement carpark & contain 16 apts. Block E located on the eastern side of the site will be three storey high & contain 6 ground floor apts & 6 duplex apts over; Block F located on the n-western side of the site & to be a 3 storey high bldg containing 2 apts on the ground floor & 2 duplex apts over; a basement car park containing 80 spaces; surface parking for 33 cars,cycle store,2 bin stores,site road,paths & landscaping, a 2.4m high palisade fencing to part of the eastern boundary a new low masonry wall with railings. Designed by RKD McCarthy Lynch.
Now, I accept the scale of the development – it pretty much falls in line with a number of recent surrounding projects in the area. I would have accepted certain adjustments indeed – but instead, CCC, after requesting Further Info and seeing a developer proposed reduction of approx 6 units to comply with CCC demands – CCC then decided to eliminate certain blocks and aspects of the development to reduced the development by a further 20 units. The project has been dramatically scaled back to the point of questionable viability – so say O’Sheas. An appeal will undoubtedly follow. These decisions were made despite 7 months of pre-planning negotations with planners.
– another irritating CCC decision regards the Custom House Street elevation of the City Quarter office block on Lapps Quay by Howard Holdings and designed by STW. If anyone who looks up at the 2 upper ‘set-back’ floors can see, the stupid CCC imposed condition has mutated the building at the elevation into an uneven and imbalanced farse. And for what cause? Overshadowing? Where??? Excessive height? With respect to what??? The width of the street ensures a sizeable gap and vacancy between the development and Custom House. It’s a pointless alteration by a cocky planning department who don’t seem to know a good thing when they see it. But it’s stupid me ranting on in this mood – just take a look at the building for yourself at this elevation and cringe.
Just by way of interest – here are a few names that have passed by Rockfell Investments Cornmarket Street Retail Development – only Habitat has been confirmed as is, but other names involved (though not certainties) are: Habitat, Dixons, H&M, Boots (they’re seeking a store similar in size to their Liffey Valley outlet for the city centre) & Esprit.
Just interesting to note the type of tenants expected.
Construction has been pushed back and is not set to begin now until mid-April.
Something interesting things are scheduled to happen over the coming years on the Cork city centre retail scene, not least the many new retail developments – but even things like retail space availabilities, for example:Depending, if Boots successfully gain their space at the Cornmarket Street development, they intend to vacate their current Patrick’s Street premises near Mothercare – freeing up an attractive main street location for prospective retaillers.
Also the Inditex stores of Zara, Pull&Bear, Bershka and Massi Dutti all have their names down for Academy Street with a preference for side-by-side units. Pull&Bear say however they still intend to keep their Roches Stores concession on Patrick’s Street.
New Look also have their name in waiting for a unit at Academy Street – they’re seeking a city centre store to complement their 2 existing suburban stores at Wilton and Blackpool S.C.
The prospect of a rejuvenation of Merchants Quay S.C. means the city centre is due for a windfall of prospective retail developments incl. Cornmarket Street, Academy Street and possibly Grand Parade (Capitol Cineplex, among others).
🙂 McCarthy Developments Ltd will also be sponsoring and arranging the Cork 2005 Live in the Marquee concert ‘extravaganza’ at the Showgrounds – the development company, who is very aggressively upping the ante on it’s development initiatives in Cork (note their additions to Jacob’s Island, Harty’s Quay, Centre Park Road office development + at least 2 other pre-planning large-scale city developments), will in conjunction w/ Aiken Promotions bring the likes of artists like Christy Moore, Brian McFadden, Ronan Keating, Tommy Tiernan, Van Morrisson and others over a number of dates in July to Cork in a large, temporary marquee erected on the famed Munster Agricultural Showgrounds near the Docklands.🙂 Aldi Developments (Ireland) Ltd have been granted permission for the construction of a ‘town centre’ addition development near the WestPark Hotel in Ballincollig (just off Main Street). The development will see a former, and quite derelict, warehouse demolished and the construction of an Aldi Discount Foodstore, with 12 additional retail units, over head offices and a number of apartments – on what will be an extensively landscaped site adjoining O’Flynn Construction’s 500m euro Ballincollig Town Centre development.
🙂 Great Southern Hotels Ltd have been granted permission for a 57-bedroom, 3 storey extension to their existing and highly popular Great Southern Hotel Cork Airport. The development is a vote of confidence for the rapidly expanding airport which will also see an additional hotel developed near the new terminal by Brooklyn Properties Ltd. This new hotel will house 137-bedrooms & 12 suites over basement car-park, a full conference centre, leisure centre with swimming pool, coack-parking and extensive landscaping. The project is currently in Further Information with Cork County Council.
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