Look at de state of Cork, like!

Home › Forums › Ireland › Look at de state of Cork, like!

Viewing 20 posts - 901 through 920 (of 1,898 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #733162
    lexington
    Participant

    @Pug wrote:

    did i see that Murnanes had planning in for a new business park up by the airport? any more info on that?

    No, they plan a 25m euro business park for Bantry – based on the 80m + Cork Airport Business Park. Murnane & O’Shea are looking to grab some names in their hometown – however it is most likely the majority of businesses will be local or nearby. Should be good for the town.

    #733163
    St Luke
    Participant

    Lexington

    I enjoyed your vision of Cork, but it is remarkably exlusionary. In it you say nothing about how you might imagine how new developments and urban policy over the next 10-20 years might deal with the persistent levels of urban inequality which are part of the current economic and social fabric of the city. By envisioning the city-island as a pleasuredome for wealthy middle class families in upmarket appartments, and populating the river bank with cafes and marinas to entertain corportate clients, its a little difficult see a future for Cork which ensures equality and inclusion for all its inhabitants….

    #733164
    lexington
    Participant

    @St Luke wrote:

    Lexington

    I enjoyed your vision of Cork, but it is remarkably exlusionary. In it you say nothing about how you might imagine how new developments and urban policy over the next 10-20 years might deal with the persistent levels of urban inequality which are part of the current economic and social fabric of the city. By envisioning the city-island as a pleasuredome for wealthy middle class families in upmarket appartments, and populating the river bank with cafes and marinas to entertain corportate clients, its a little difficult see a future for Cork which ensures equality and inclusion for all its inhabitants….

    I’m glad you brought this up…

    …if you remember, I did refer to docklands living, as I hope it would be, to be ‘superior, but not necessarily exclusive’. Indeed, I recognise that my portrayl depicts something of a middle-to-upper class utopia, but it would be my hope that this regeneration would be devised to the benefit of all Cork’s citizens. Most developers, when creating residential developments, would generally hope to aim at the middle to upper markets, as these markets have greater resources and allow the developer maximise his return to investment ratio. Evidently, 70% of all Cork’s current apartment developments is aimed at these markets. In their position, if you stake your money on an investment project, you will clearly wish to maximise your benefit return also. It may not be an ideal circumstance, but it is a reality. Quite often, affordable housing schemes are left to local authorities to provide alone, or in a joint initiative with which a private developer can depend on the authority to help reduce his/her risk. I do acknowledge some private developers have embarked on such affordable developments at their own initiative e.g. McInerney. The lack of private investment in affordable housing has led local authorities to introduce new measures in order to attain social housing units (for example, a new O’Brien & O’Flynn housing development near Douglas was granted planning on the condition that it provided 20 units to the local authority for affordable housing purposes – something OB&OF tried vehemently to recompense, offering money instead of housing units. Their efforts were unsuccessful).

    A fact of reality is that the economy is driven predominantly by the so-called middle to upper income earners, a fact stated by the Government and CSO (http://www.irlgov.ie) – but this doesn’t mean we should overlook other classes of income which provide an important percentage in their economic contribution. Nor does it mean we should create a scenario by which members of such categories (an unfortunate phrase) should be denied the ability to ascend into alternate brackets. The current rise in housing prices, I do believe, is driving such blocks to this – and while developers are profiting healthily from it, the other end of the sepctrum is finding it increasingly difficult to keep its head above the water. I should hope that there is a levelling in housing prices (as indicated by recent BoI and ESRI stats) inflation over the coming months. Hopefully, as the population continues to grow (approaching the 5m mark – projected – for 2018), a greater wealth base will afford the continuation of such existing developments, whilst creating a more sustainable affordable housing market with greater private participation.

    The docklands I envision will indeed probably be driven by the mid-to-upper market categories – as I said, this is where investment predominantly follows. Furthermore, members of such markets are in the majority associated, participating members of the operations, businesses and development which such investment brings. It may not be a liked picture, but it is a reality. The development processes and associated investment bring with them a greater dispersion of wealth (though this may not be even, it remains evident). I highlight the effects which Mahon Point has brought to what was considered an unemployment blackspot of Cork – the joint public-private funded training programmes have created 1,200 jobs for residents of the region within the shopping centre alone, this will rise to (projected) 6,000 in 2009. The increased level of construction activity around the city has generated employment activities among those who may not have had but sought work – accepted that some of this work is only temporary, the fact is however, that it provides the skills, money and incentive among these workers to allow them pursue and attain future employment elsewhere. It is a consequence, that though the tide rises higher in some places than others, the water level rises generally throughout.

    The Cork I envision – and, believe it or not, it may indeed by where it is heading strategically, is an inclusive one. I do not pretend to believe every single individual will benefit unequivocally, nor do I state that the benefits will be entirely balanced – but I do state, that Cork will benefit at large. Look what has happened already; the increased prosperity of the region, fuelled by investment and development and so on, has raised the average weighted income across the Cork city area. This has seen families who had never left their neighbourhood before enjoy the ability to take a summer holiday abroad (I recognise the Ryanair-factor in that too!); allowed projects like Mahon Point become not simply viable, but unprecedented successes; houses in even the most unexpected areas revamp, extend and renew; and so on and so on.

    In my envisionment, I did not have the opportunity (for spatial reasons) to outline how I would wish to see the socio-economic fabric of Cork city develop alongside this new regeneration. Nor was I able to outline how I wish to achieve them. I could gladly do so if you wish – but this is not the forum to do so. I think in outlining how I would like to see, and may well see, the city develop – it is a little unfair to assume so much of my opinion for these aspects of society without a clear chance to reference them. Is it not a little stereotypical to associate cafe culture to one faction of society – like the corporate? Who says they all have to be Canary Wharf? I would certainly never imply that this was so – and in my depiction, if that was the led conclusion, may I now clarify that this is the intention. Paintings on a gallery wall are open to an observers interpretation, but it isn’t always what the artist had in mind I suppose.

    #733165
    dowlingm
    Participant

    thanks for the update on Temple Hill Lexington.

    #733166
    sw101
    Participant

    any docklands residential development would be subject to he 20% social and affordable bit wouldn’t it? so long as this is enforced it will be quite democratic and diverse in it’s make-up.

    #733167
    lexington
    Participant

    CCC have already designated an area further east of the Marina Point area (which has plans to redevelop as a new University Campus and Student Town Centre) to focus on affordable housing. CCC already have 50m euro plans to construct a mix of apartments, houses and duplexes for such use at this location. Construction work is planned for late 2005.

    #733168
    sw101
    Participant

    sounds like the problem of affordable housing is being left to the fringes. i would be of the opinion that an integrated system like that at clarion quay would be better.

    #733169
    lawyer
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    CCC have already designated an area further east of the Marina Point area (which has plans to redevelop as a new University Campus and Student Town Centre) to focus on affordable housing. CCC already have 50m euro plans to construct a mix of apartments, houses and duplexes for such use at this location. Construction work is planned for late 2005.

    Where is the Marina Point area to which you refer?

    #733170
    sw101
    Participant

    on the south of the river past the power station (innit?)

    #733171
    lexington
    Participant

    Yes – around and to the east of the ESB Power Station.

    I think the social housing location is more to do with the availability of land in the docklands with respect to maintaining a distinctive commercial quarter further west along the quays – as set out in the Cork City Development Plan 2004. It will still compose an integral part of the overall Cork City Docklands Redevelopment.

    #733172
    lawyer
    Participant

    @lexington wrote:

    Yes – around and to the east of the ESB Power Station.

    I think the social housing location is more to do with the availability of land in the docklands with respect to maintaining a distinctive commercial quarter further west along the quays – as set out in the Cork City Development Plan 2004. It will still compose a integral part of the overall Cork City Docklands Redevelopment.

    Is it the triangular plot of land bounded by the Power Station, the Centre Park Road and the Marina, right at the end of the C.P.Road?

    #733173
    lexington
    Participant

    😑 A newspaper article appearing in today’s Irish Examiner (8th Feb 2005) highlighted the ‘turmoil’ being faced by the residents of Dennehy’s Cross and the Model Farm Road – many among them members of CAHRA. The residents are up in arms about the development proposed by Richard Walsh & Dick Kiely (of Walsh Consulting) of 22 no. residential units comprising 6 no. 1 bedroomed apartments, 11 no. 2 bedroom duplex units, 2 no. 3 bedroomed apartments and 3 no. 2 bedroomed detached town houses; 2) 1 no. 175m2 cafe/restaurant and 1 no. 99m2 retail unit; 3) a 33 no. space basement car park with access from Victoria Cross Road. Yet again, the majority senior citizens are protesting at the high-rise nature of the development (between 2 and 4 storeys :confused: ). They complain of being tired of development in their area. One of the 22 objectors, Ms. Helen O’Hea (70) laments for the loss of the local chemist, butcher and post office which she claims once left the residents, ‘spoilt for choice’ – she implies that this is due to development in the area and further complains that the area is turning into a ‘ghetto’.

    – these residents, in the form of CAHRA, make me laugh and become highly frustrated in equal measure. They reflect on the area’s past with rose-tinted glasses and fail to recognise development is not the cause for the loss of their local butcher – markets change, shift, people age and move on. The development in this area has been very respectable in most cases and few have had any direct effect whatsoever on any residencies. Moreover, objecting to such development isn’t going to bring back the ‘good old days’ or local services – if anything, the provision of such development will bring these services back into the area once again to meet increased demand (the above application brings a new restaurant and retail unit back into the community). Once again, the residents are showing a questionable sentiment regarding this ‘high-rise’ development – excuse me but many houses in the area range taller than the 2 to 4 storeys they are protesting. 4 storeys isn’t high-rise by even a long-shot. [a comment here at this exact point has been purposely removed until such a time that situations regarding it can be resolved. I will happily reissue this line on request following the outcome]



    πŸ™‚ Frinailla Developments have acquired the Dennehys Cross Garage premises with adjoining shop & bar. Originally earmarked for a student development, the site now looks set to see a new residential and commercial proposal. Of course CAHRA and the residents will be fuming – but new local services they complain of being ‘destroyed’ by development, will in fact be provided in this new venture. McCutcheon Mulcahy will be employed by Frinailla on the development – with John Paul Construction most likely as main contractors. An application should be lodged for early to mid Summer.



    – and to lawyer , Marina Point is considered the whole area from the ESB Power Station east to the Ford Motor Co. premises toward Blackrock direction.

    #733174
    lexington
    Participant

    Mark Kelleher’s controversial development for Westend (Bishopstown/Curraheen) of 97 residential units (mostly apartments in a 5-storey block) which has received 156 objections (mostly from CAHRA members) has seen its decision due date extended by 6 months!!! A decision is now not expected until August. The project is designed by Frank Ennis & Associates.

    – 6 months though, isn’t that a bit, o.t.t.??? Same scenario has hit Mick Hannigan’s Kino redevelopment and Aldi Developments retail and 46-residential duplex development on Tory Top Road.

    #733175
    planningdept
    Participant

    At least the scheme wasn’t refused ,as many in Bishopstown had hoped for.
    Do the people of the western suburbs realise they can not have rural life styles in
    urban settings.
    The local councilors are only delaying the city manager and planners (by using so call democratic rights in objecting ) in allowiing Bishopstown grow. Lets hope the developer and ccc come back with this before 6 MONTHS !

    #733176
    planningdept
    Participant

    By the way what news on the old post office site at dennehys cross (decision due yesterday?)

    #733177
    Leesider
    Participant

    was just wondering about the Kino, has that actually received that many objections?? Personally I thought it would clean up that area alot!

    #733178
    d_d_dallas
    Participant

    Objections from the houses of “ill-repute” on nearby streets afraid of some gentrification…?!?

    #733179
    Radioactiveman
    Participant

    In fairness to the people of Dennehys Cross you cant really blame them for being a bit nervous after seeing that appalling building on Victoria cross nearby.
    I’m totally in favour of tall buildings in that area but that took the biscuit.
    Also, i think people in Dennehy’s cross have a point…the loss of a post office and most of the little corner shops is a bad thing for ANY community, rural or urban. Its a bad day when thay have to walk to town or Wilton to buy a bottle of milk and a stamp.

    #733180
    lexington
    Participant

    πŸ™‚ A decision to grant Richard Walsh & Dick Kiely’s proposal for Dennehy’s Cross has been made 2 days ahead of the original due date. The project, which was subject to the unfair ‘outbursts’ of CAHRA and residents, will see a) the demolition of the dwelling house Grianbru and the former post office; b) the modification of existing ground levels, c) the construction of a mixed use residential and commercial development ranging in height from two to four storeys to include: 1) 22 no. residential units comprising 6 no. 1 bedroomed apartments, 11 no. 2 bedroom duplex units, 2 no. 3 bedroomed apartments and 3 no. 2 bedroomed detached town houses; 2) 1 no. 175m2 cafe/restaurant and 1 no. 99m2 retail unit; 3) a 33 no. space basement car park with access from Victoria Cross Road and 4) all associated site development works. It is a positive move for the area – unfortunately (sigh) knowing the objectors to this project, ABP will be hearing from them in the near future. However, on this note, I must in this instance acknowledge the very practical and diplomatic approach adopted by the planner in charge. His report was well put together and realistic.



    πŸ™‚ McCarthy Developments Ltd have applied to CCC to increase the height on 2 of its apartment blocks under construction at Jacob Island (Mahon Point). The extension will bring the 2 blocks to an increased height of 6-storeys (from 4) and in line with the neighbouring structures. Increased parking will be also accommodated. McCarthy Developments have based this on what they claim as strong interest and market demand for their project.



    πŸ™‚ OSB Group, whose 1st Phase of Camden Court (along Carrolls Quay/Camden Quay and Knapps Square) has sold strongly, will commence works on the 2nd Phase of the development in the coming weeks. Corks Art Theatre on Knapps Square have begun vacating their premises and Pa Johnsons Pub is scheduled to close within the next 2 weeks. John F. Supple are main contractors and James Leahy & Associates are the design team for the interesting project which will provide among the most extensive and detailled roof-gardens in Ireland for its residents. The 2nd phase of the project will see 55 apartments constructed over 6-storeys, with a new Cork Arts Theatre development and new Pa Johnsons premises incoporated also. The project is scheduled for completion by July 2006.


    Phase One displayed only

    – Camden Court and neighbouring Camden Wharf (developed by Hornibrook Builders, constructed by PJ Hegarty & Sons Ltd and designed by J.E. Keating & Associates) are making quite a stir within their area. The deisgn quality and construction standards have been superior. They developments, along with Hanranka Ltd’s Knapps Square development, have added immensely to an area which so badly needed development. Even from Emmet Place, the developments combined look pretty impressive. They provide positive examples of how good projects can contribute superbly to Cork’s cityscape.



    πŸ™ On a slightly sour note, by and far the single worst project to be present to Cork in many a year is in the realms of planning – Charles & Helen McCarthy’s plan for a 64-bedroom, 7-storey hotel at Crosses Green, designed by Derek Tynan & Associates. I received a copy of the VIS today – though I had seen the drawings, the VIS only added to my worst fears. I don’t regard the height as an issue – frankly, if the design is good, such height doesn’t really adversely affect an area, but the pure arrogance of the project design in this instance is gut-wrenching. The hotel is planned on the site of the existing Mill Business Centre – a tall, rectangular brick will arise therefrom cladding in Black Limestone. The design closely resembles Victoria Mills, just black. Balconies have been removed from earlier design outlines – adding to the blandness. It really does look like a huge black wall with no features other than a few windows square windows (such as Victoria Mills). I have never seen a building look so out of place in an area, or even a city like Cork. Truly a horrible, horrible project.



    😑 Grind your teeth now to save time later!!! Minister for Transport Martin Cullen has formally announced in the Dail, in response to a local Cork TDs questions, that Cork Airport’s new 140m terminal will NOT incorporate any new air-bridges. I don’t need to say anymore. But while your blood boils – consider this also -> The Governments Track Record on Cork so far….

    a.) cut-back, novelty Bus Station redevelopment
    b.) No Cork School of Music still
    c.) Refusal to move on promises made regarding Horgan’s Quay redevelopment
    d.) Exclusion of airbridges from new Cork Airport Terminal

    – all the above constitute broken promises!!! Frankly, I’m fed up of it.



    But not to end all gloom and doom, I amazingly have found common ground with An Taisce, regarding the Ellesmere Properties (Howard Holdings) Lavitts Quay hotel proposal – their submission has mirrored my sentiment closely (with the exception of the height issue) – neither of us object to the project, in fact, we encourage it – but we both have raised concerns about the design requesting only minor alterations to the facade in the interests of visual amenity and continuity. I know! I felt awkward too. But sure, enjoy it while it lasts I say! We’re still divided on practically every other development issue in Cork! πŸ˜€

    #733181
    planningdept
    Participant

    Dennehy’s cross have a point…the loss of a post office and most of the little corner shops is a bad thing for ANY community, rural or urban. Its a bad day when thay have to walk to town or Wilton to buy a bottle of milk and a stamp.

    How can any small business survive in a market place where wage levels , rates and insurance are the highest in e.u.
    The little shop or post office (and now the local pub!) has being dying in surban and rural ireland for years.We want a better range of products
    at good pricing levels and this cannot be achieved in small local shops (unless you want to pay !!!) .The celtic tiger has
    made great changes to our social enviroment for better or worst ?

Viewing 20 posts - 901 through 920 (of 1,898 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.