Look at de state of Cork, like!

You make some excellent points Lex, and these are your best to date 🙂

@lexington wrote:

As a continuation of my previous post –

It strikes me, that too often developers and planners hear from retaillers that space in Cork city centre for retail development is far too limited – especially along Patrick’s Street. The backlog of retaillers vying for space is substantial – and quite often, when space does become available along the thoroughfare, it’s a blink or you’ll miss situation. Although I back developments like that proposed by O’Callaghan Properties for Academy Street, Rockfell on Cornmarket Street and Frinailla along Grand Parade – much needed projects – I still believe that retail space is not really in short supply as such, its just not being used efficiently.

Patrick’s Street is lined with beautiful old department stores like Grants, Burtons, Munster Arcade, Roches Stores and Brown Thomas. Though BT, Roches and Munster Arcade (Penneys) may be excluded from this discussion – places like Grants and Burtons are often used at ground floor for retail and see their remaining floors for mere storage or run-down offices.

I for one, believe that a substantial area of retail space may be allowed for in the refurbishment of these old department stores and reorganisation of internal layouts. By expanding upward, creating – for example – an open area centre surrounded by upper level balconies to cater for increased retail space – many of those retaillers who complain about the lack of space, may be afforded such gold-dust. Existing tenants stand to lose little if they simply adapt to reorganised layouts which will improve the visual and practical environments for businesses and consumers alike. One only has to look at the unflattering signage adorned on the former Burtons Department Store by Oasis for one to see how existing layouts are unsatisfactory. Grants Dept Store stands to benefit immensely from such redevelopment. Cork now has a world-class pedestrian friendly shopping street in that of Patrick’s Street – can we not afford to make simple alterations to our historical and eye-catching former department store buildings to boost this reputation further? Aesthetics improve, businesses benefit, consumers benefit – what’s there to lose?

I think such redevelopment will compliment further the blend of old and new as Cork city is reborn in the wave of new investment and development.

@mickeydocs wrote:

You make some excellent points Lex, and these are your best to date 🙂

Thank you mickeydocs for your most generous words – they are very kind, I sincerely appreciate them.

With relation to O’Callaghan Properties development at Jurys Hotel – I don’t believe the hotel element is intended for apartment usage. A deeply critical cynic may say otherwise, but I believe the hotel element was a focus from day one – if only a focus to the side of a much larger apartment proposal. As part of the deal with Jurys Doyle Group – the hotel element was very much a concern, and subsequently an arrangement was signed to agree to lease back the hotel from O’Callaghan Properties for at least 25 years at 2m euro p.a. A full leisure centre and conference centre are incorporated into the hotel structure. I think the deal works nicely in the fact O’CP get their 277 apartments and a guaranteed annual return of 2m p.a. before even one apartment is sold. While Jurys gain an extra 26 rooms, a brand new hotel, decent parking, adequate conference facilities and 30m from the sale of land to boot. A return of 2m p.a. isn’t a bad deal either. The cost of redeveloping the hotel on their own would have been far more expensive – and probably would not have corresponded to the standard of what is being proposed.

where’s cork?

@Rockflanders wrote:

where’s cork?

Of course, how rude of us. Cork is that city in the South with a greater area home to a quarter-of-a-million people, hub to just under half-a-million people and regional capital to 1.3m people in Ireland. It’s resposnible directly for 72bn euros of Ireland’s 190bn euro economy. The centre of pharmaceautical excellence and development in Ireland. Home and/or birthplace to some of Ireland’s most prominent indigenous businesses (e.g. Musgraves, Roches Stores, Dunnes Stores, Horizon Technologies, Baltimore Technologies, O’Callaghan Properties, the Bowen Group, Dairygold, Golden Vale, etc etc) – and as a result, is responsible for the creation directly and indirectly of over 100,000 Dublin centred jobs (full and part-time).

Even I, who originally hails from Dublin – laughs a Dublin’s inflated image of itself. Dublin based threads dominate this forum, so be it, I have no problem with it – but this is not a Cork versus Dublin thread, it is the one thread (I recognise the other related threads, not forgetting) that allows those with an interest in the progress of Cork as the nation’s second city (and mythical ‘Real Capital’ 🙂 ) discuss and receive information concerning the city. It doesn’t need low-brow cracks from condescending chin-ups staining its discussions. There are plenty of other threads on which to do so. If your comment has made you feel temporarily superior and smart for ‘getting one in’ – well done, but its not welcome here.

I have never gone on a Dublin thread and knocked it for its faults – as the nation’s capital and my hometown I follow those threads with a quiet interest. Perhaps you should do the same – and if you have no interest, don’t insult those that do.

Good one Lexington – very funny. I needed a good laugh.
Please explain to me also how Cork is home to Dunnes Stores??????

Are Hegartys originally from Cork?

@lexington wrote:

In 1944 Ben Dunne Sr, a Cork resident (though born in the North), set up the first Dunnes Stores on Patrick’s Street near Bowling Green Street after working with a number of other retaillers here and abroad The store is still in operation today, though expanded substantially. It is in line for a 35m euro redevelopment and expansion in the near future, If you have ever shopped in Dunnes and purchased one of their brown ‘bag for life’ shopping bags – an image of the original Cork store (Dunnes first) is printed on it. A number of other stores were later opened around Cork – subsequent to that, the business opened its first store in Dublin, where later Ben Dunne Sr. moved his family and a new HQ was established.

”Home and/or birthplace to some of Ireland’s most prominent indigenous businesses ” <- is actually how I phrased it more accurately. Don't believe me, check out the history on their website. http://www.dunnesstores.com/history_opening.ds

See for Roches as well! http://www.roches-stores.ie/corpwww/history.html

CSO projections for 2004 indicate that in dispersal of economic activity generation throughout the island of Ireland, 72bn of the 190bn euro economy can be attributed to activities in or associated with Cork – considering export values from the pharma sector estb’d in Cork Harbour region and city based IT. Indigeneous business activity. Tax receipts. Tourist value (incl. Cork/Kerry Region) – Cork city alone = 441m euro p.a. (based on static fig. carried over from year ended 2003 w/ 341,000 city visits – see CCC, Southwest (Cork/Kerry)Tourist Board and CSO). Development and Investment – (a better example of this is considering [in terms of development] that between the 3 largest Cork-based development companies (O’Flynn Construction, O’Callaghan Properties and Clayton Love – Howard Holdings to a lesser extent w/ offices only in Cork and official base in Dublin) – current development expenditure for Cork City = 500m BTC, 500m MP, 30m Lavitts Quay, 20m Boreenmanna Rd, 100m Blackpool Park, 100m City Quarter, 60m Douglas Village SC, 100m Eglinton Street, 150m Academy Street, 160m Jurys, 300m Dunkettle = 2bn (excess) alone) excl. projects by Treasury, OSB, Corbett, Hanranka, SHUL, Frinailla, Rockfell, Mannix, Victoria Hall, Rathmelton. etc etc and small investors).

If you’re interested in a clearer breakdown of figures, just ask! I’ve about 12 books full of statistics and would be happy to forward you the appropriate addresses where you can attain such briefs for yourself. They on average cost 20euros each except one from CCC (the Development Plan 2004) for which a paperback copy costs 50euros.

Thanks for your interest PaulC.

(P.S. If you want more Cork originated or based company histories – there’s plenty more where that came from. I’d be more than happy to oblige).

just saw this in breakingnews http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/11/15/story175995.html

Patrick St the best shopping street in the country?? thought that would have gone to Grafton St, good to see though! anyone have any info on this new landmark or even better still any images??

CRC – without wishing to sound pedantic –

“Nation: A relatively large group of people organized under a single, usually independent government; a country.The territory occupied by such a group of people.The government of a sovereign state.”

Under the above definition Cork is indeed the second largest city in the nation. More importantly it is ‘de real capital’.

…can we get back to the real purpose of the thread now?

*UPDATES*

:rolleyes: Thomas Crosbie Holdings have received permission from CCC to forward with the construction of their new printing press facility at Mahon Point – a facility that will be leased out to newly formed company Webprint Concepts – who subsequently will publish all Thomas Crosbie Holdings titles bar the London-centred Irish Post.

The development essentially consists of a new manufacturing building comprising a press hall of 19.5m in height, mail room, newspaper reel storage, ink storage, plate making, control room, maintenance rooms, plant rooms, external plant enclosures, storage areas, offices, staff amenities, lunch room & sprinkler tank pumphouse, all of a total floor area of 4,075 sq. m. and associated development including site roadway, vehicle manoeuvring areas, delivery and dispatch areas, car parking, sprinkler tank, emergency generators, waste compaction and storage, site fencing, gates and vehicle barriers. Site services including water, electrical, gas and telecoms supply, connection to foul sewer and storm water discharge, site lighting, CCTV cameras, site works and mounding, landscaping all on a site of 1.42 hectares.

Design is by RKD McCarthy Lynch.

-> Meanwhile the other prominent TCH development site at 16 Lavitts Quay (new HQ) – though ‘officially’ under offer – has moved on to advanced stages of agreement. A ‘Sale Agreed’ status is expected to be confirmed soon.

Bob (Republican supporter???),

I have objection copies and the full planning report thank you. In the above post, it is unreasonable for me to include full details of the planning report as it takes up a considerable amount of space – which is highly inappropriate, hence, I pick out some main points and post them.

If you read the above post you’ll see I agree with the CCC [Cork City Council] decision too. ( Quote: lexington – “Although I’m disappointed in seeing development lost to an area so badly needing of it – I have to agree with CCC on this one. Hopefully Old Friary will revise their plans and come back with something of a higher quality. ” )

I read the report and had a chat with an individual from Castle Close and I totally agree with the decisions taken. When I cited my disappointment – it’s a disappointment that a potential rejuvenating development for Shadon Street Area has been lost, but clearly, a development such as this under the circumstances it stirred is unacceptable. I would be anxious to see a standard of development at this location which compliments the new renewal of Shadon Street and works well with its fine residents. Hence why I hope Old Friary pull up their socks and get to work on a project of a greater suitability with concern to neighbouring residents and the historic Shandon Street area as a whole. So, there’s no real argument here – I’m 100% behind you on this one.

[P.S. When I refer to quality, I don’t specifically refer to aesthetics – it’s inclusive of how the project affects its neighbours, the quality of life it supports to its residents (of which this project was lacking to say the least) and the quality of the surrounding environment resultant of the development (e.g. traffic management, refuse etc).]