Look at de state of Cork, like!
- This topic has 1,897 replies, 111 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 10 months ago by
.
- Posts
Well, good to see there is some serious attempt to the redevelopment of horgans quay, but im sure i speak for nearly everyone in saying this is a disappointing and uninspired proposal.it has no distinguishing features as such, save the curius plaza type thing, it really would be such a pity to waste such a valuable development site on a lowrise boring proposal like this, weve made too many mistakes like this in cork in the past, this really is an opportunity to put cork on the international architecture map, and create a vibrant new city quarter.This proposal doesnt complement the water street scheme at all, and would make the latters impact more severe, even though i am all for water street, dont get me wrong, but as part of an overall integrated docklands scheme.but as lexington put it, there are more propsals, more to most peoples ideas, which are more likely to be chosen over this one.
Something tells me Lexington is only telling us a small portion of what he really knows. Thanks anywho Lex.
Any news on Howard Holdings proposal for Albert Quay?
What timescales have the ccc put on the O’Flynn planning process?Originally posted by mickeydocs
Any news on Howard Holdings proposal for Albert Quay?
What timescales have the ccc put on the O’Flynn planning process?😎 Howard Holdings tell me that the most likely probability for any announcement relating to Albert Quay (now known as Terence McSweeney Quay as far as I know), will be made in early Spring 2005, when the City Quarter development on Lapps Quay is up and running. However, this may be subject to change.
🙂 The decision due date for O’Flynn Construction’s Eglinton Street Gateway development is the 2nd of December 2004 – expect CCC to request Further Info or extend the decision date (as is common CCC practice).
Here’s just an interesting 3D-Graphic of the commercial element proposed for Ballincollig Town Centre. A number of revisions have since been made with a greater emphasis on space. The SC element was also revised – incorporating a public plaza and alternate layout. The density of this image does not reflect the final design.
And about Horgan’s Quay – I’m looking into getting further images up soon. That previous post is uninspiring to say the least. But trust me, the other designs are much more encouraging.
Also, relating to O’Flynn Construction’s Eglinton Street project – I expect and am informed CCC will be requesting an EIS in the form of Further Info – which will clearly delay any planning decision date. I have closely observed the models and designs for the scheme and I have to say, it is very impressive.lexington,
do you have any info (images or references) on proposed developments for R&H Hall and the surrounding plots?
For R&H Hall specifically, I can’t comment on exact plans – however, a IAWS (owners of R&H Hall Weybridge along Kennedy Quay) have held discussions with a series of developers in the past – and some negotiations are on-going. There were rumours of an apartment development replacing the grain silos as far back as 1996 – however this was contravene to city development plans that wish to focus commercial activities exclusively in this area. CCC and IAWS are both very anxious to make sure the standard of development is first-class – as it represents the real entrance to the docklands – and what develops here will set the tone for the remainder of future developments along these quays. A strong emphasis has been put on high-rise developments (office buildings, hotels, leisure & retail facilities etc) as the grain silos average 13 to 14 storeys as is – and high-rise is oddly very important to Cork’s city-scape from this perspective traditionally. One proposal that was made, but subsequently withdrawn, proposed a BALTIC Centre style cultural venue through silo restoration. This was deemed unviable – and the grain silos are structurally incapable of catering to modern standard commercial usage. Furthermore, why do we have to copy everywhere else? Shouldn’t Cork be doing something unique? – let others copy from us. Even high-rise office buildings – but with a special, unique edge is a better way to go. Imagination should be let run wild – positively – here. I’ll give you more details when I can.
One can only hope that the receeding floodwater on Patrick Street take the new bins and streetlighting with it. Failing that I guess they could always be used as moorings for gondolas.
Originally posted by GregF
Look at the state of Cork, like!…..it’s looking like Venice this morning!On a serious note, wasn’t Cork renowned as the ‘Venice of the North’ at one stage in Europe?
I was on Patricks st about 5 to 6 yesterday and it was crazy! a big wave of water came up Wintrop St, about a foot high. Around this section, the new square blocks on the street, which people normally sit on, acted as platforms to keep your feet out of the water. It was like being on a beach when your realise you’ve stayed too long and the tide is coming in around you.
thanks lexington.
i’m doing my thesis on a docklands site, possibly the r&h hall plot. researching like mad at the moment. any info greatly appreciated.
And yet there is something so romantic about all the chaos! I’m so tempted to find a beautiful Italian woman and raft her down Lavitts Quay to Patrick’s Street with a Edith Piaf playing on my turntable Player in the background. Classy!
Yes, Cork was once known as ‘Venice of the North’ – a title historically evident in many of the city centre’s old buildings (especially along South Mall and Patrick’s Street) which have cobbled and stone stairways extending to the ground from the first floor. Places like South Mall, Coal Quay/Cornmarket Street, Academy Street and so on, used to be canal ways. Traders and merchants would ferry up the Lee to the city centre markets. I really wish Cork would use its waterways and rivers a lot more nowadays. River buses should be picking people up at the new Ballincollig Town Centre and dropping them off at the Mardyke or Grenville Place – no traffic, less pollution, time-saving!There are people currently researching the possiblity of using the lee for tourism tours…. Lee Fields to Patrick Street is a great stretch in a boat btw.
Originally posted by lexington
And yet there is something so romantic about all the chaos! I’m so tempted to find a beautiful Italian woman and raft her down Lavitts Quay to Patrick’s Street with a Edith Piaf playing on my turntable Player in the background. Classy!
Yes, Cork was once known as ‘Venice of the North’ – a title historically evident in many of the city centre’s old buildings (especially along South Mall and Patrick’s Street) which have cobbled and stone stairways extending to the ground from the first floor. Places like South Mall, Coal Quay/Cornmarket Street, Academy Street and so on, used to be canal ways. Traders and merchants would ferry up the Lee to the city centre markets. I really wish Cork would use its waterways and rivers a lot more nowadays. River buses should be picking people up at the new Ballincollig Town Centre and dropping them off at the Mardyke or Grenville Place – no traffic, less pollution, time-saving!Originally posted by lexington
the grain silos average 13 to 14 storeys as is – and high-rise is oddly very important to Cork’s city-scape from this perspective traditionally. One proposal that was made, but subsequently withdrawn, proposed a BALTIC Centre style cultural venue through silo restoration. This was deemed unviable – and the grain silos are structurally incapable of catering to modern standard commercial usage.The Treasury Building in Lower Grnad Canal St completed in 1990 is a conversion of the old ‘Bolands Mills Grain Silos’ it was when built the highest specification building in Ireland and its tenants 14 years later include
1. National Pensions Fund
2. National Treasury Management Agency
3. Merrill Lynch
4. Whirlpool European Finance Centre
5. Novel
6. Treasury HoldingsTo state that the grain silos are ‘structurally incapable of conversion’ is factually wrong, grain silos by their definition are one of the most flexible types of structures to remodel as every second floor can be removed to allow for raised access floors, air conditioning ducting and other essential fourth generation service.
The silos should be retained as there is little sense in demolished structurally sound flexible buildings and sending them to landfill only to produce buildings well below a specification that is possible.
I will personally object on my own headed paper should any proposal for their demolition arise, objection will be leveled on a number of grounds not least of which is sustainability.
Diaspora, with the greatest of respect, simply because a building has a history should not exclusively mean that it must be retained. The grain silos in Cork were built for a purpose – one which they achieved very well. Under a scenario of a redeveloped docklands this purpose is removed. Yes, they possibly could be re-developed, but you must also open your mind to the possibility that something more aesthetically pleasing could replace them. There are many buildings in Cork that could be sustained, but the fact that they were cheap unsightly solutions at their outset deems them unattractive to retain. By proposing that you will object to any proposal for the demolition of the Cork silos (be it on your own ‘headed paper’ or not) without considering a possibly more attractive (and suitable) alternative lacks foresight and an appreciation of the mechanics involved in regenerating this region of the city.
the planning officer for the area, the lord mayor, the planning policy makers for the docklands, all are in favour of demolition if the void was filled by high-quality buildings of the same scale or perhaps even taller to offset the effect of 5 or 6 storey buildings surrounding the existing stand-alone silos.
when you object, please post a copy of the letter up here.
Blind objections = extreme conservatism.
Originally posted by theblimp
Diaspora, with the greatest of respect, simply because a building has a history should not exclusively mean that it must be retained. The grain silos in Cork were built for a purpose – one which they achieved very well. Under a scenario of a redeveloped docklands this purpose is removed. Yes, they possibly could be re-developed, but you must also open your mind to the possibility that something more aesthetically pleasing could replace them. There are many buildings in Cork that could be sustained, but the fact that they were cheap unsightly solutions at their outset deems them unattractive to retain. By proposing that you will object to any proposal for the demolition of the Cork silos (be it on your own ‘headed paper’ or not) without considering a possibly more attractive (and suitable) alternative lacks foresight and an appreciation of the mechanics involved in regenerating this region of the city.Okay, maybe when I have more time and energy, I will state what is wrong with Diaspora’s claims. I have a report here from Arup conducted on behalf of a private client, and another report by RPS, stating the unsuitability of the Cork R&H Hall grain silos for a number of commercial uses other than cultural (like I mentioned, the BALTIC Centre in Newcastle, UK). ‘Bolands Mills Grain Silos’ – I do agree were well converted, and I’m glad that they were, but there is a matter here of condition. IAWS have been itching themselves to demolish the silos – irresponsibly you may say, they invested little in maintaining their structural quality. Silos are indeed very structurally diverse, and I agree with you on that, but the issue with R&H Hall is that issues of foundation and a number of alternate use schemes have eroded the structural quality beyond that of most other facilities in the country. The reports won’t upload onto this forum because of their size, I will try and load it onto a web-based serve if I can. However, I acknowledge, the report does mention – some commercial uses may be attained from the silos within a limited capacity but at an extensive cost – which may make such projects unviable – and leaving the silos in a continued state of disrepair. And even if this wasn’t the case, what’s wrong with respectful progress? I accept the romantic view of the silos – I often think it would feel weird looking down the quays and not seeing them there – but why should we block ourselves from new possibilities that may provide a greater city-scape for all concerned?
flysrmd11 – I do have images, but because they are of an odd format, I can’t upload them here. I’m trying to upload them to a web-based server, but I’m having trouble. I promise to let you know if I get them up – keep your eyes on this thread.
*UPDATES*-> Rathmelton Investments (Joe McCarthy) have said they no longer plan to construct the student element of their Kingsley Hotel redevelopment (at least for now – which is odd because there is a 2006 S.50 deadline). However, construction is ongoing at the 82-bedroom extension on-site and 19-room apart-hotel.
-> At a seminar last night in Cork, John Bowen, MD of The Bowen Group said he views Cork as being an untold ground for development potential. He said that currently Cork may be playing catch-up, come 2005 – he expects investment in the city centre to double, even triple. In anticipation he mentioned that his company is carefully catering for this influx into the Cork market. He said, though Dublin’s size keeps it going – property values will force it to slow down in the coming years and it’s extreme centralised position within the country was unsustainable. Cork, he mentioned, provide the country’s only real good alternative in terms of balance. Although Cork Metropolitan area provided only one-fifth of Dublin’s market – with the ongoing and cont’d investment/development of the city – Cork could see exponential population and market growth over the next 10 years – proper infastructure and planning pending. Cork was only embarking on its journey of realisation, he said. He remarked that he was confident in Cork, developers are confident in Cork and this air will soon extend to those further afield interested in getting involved in Cork’s future.– very encouraging opinion.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
