Look at de state of Cork, like!

Lexington, there is alot of people who enjoy your posts so please continue to post.

Diaspora, thanks for representing An Taisce. I believe the frustrations with the planning system in Cork should not always stop at the feet of national government. Local government have made some truly tragic decisions.

The National government of which An Taisce is representative have not helped areas outside of Dublin to develop in competition with Dublin. The general tax amnesties granted to the IFSC should have been granted to all the major cities of Ireland. Cork airport should also have been allowed to develop Transatlantic routes at the same time Dublin Airport received this privilege.

The major problems that blight Dublin are a result of these unequivocal privileges. Dublin is a small European city trying hard to market itself as a global centre which it is not. Development has taken place irrespective of infrastructure and Dublin has changed from being an exciting and friendly city to a city with a population approaching the neurotic. Yesterday evening I had a cyclist shout profanities at me as I walked to my car with my four year old son for reasons only known to the cyclist. The feeling in the city is now one of frustration and many of my colleagues are now looking to relocate to either the provinces or other countries.

I really hope Cork does not make some of the mistakes Dublin has made. Lexington is absolutely right in objecting to the tellenganna development because it is not right for its location. Traffic in this area is already creating problems, especially because this area is close to Parc Ui Chaoimh and the Showgrounds and suffer occasional upsurges in traffic volumes.
This development would be ideal for the docklands area and as such the CCC should be encouraging developments such as this in leafy suburbs. Mahon Point is no more than two miles from this location and is already zoned for such developments. The NSC is a similar development yet it is located next to the South Link and traffic access isn’t an issue.

Anywho that’s my piece. This thread is not a Cork versus Dublin thread. It is a thread which is of great interest to those of us interested in seeing Cork city and Environs develop into an international class city. It is the opinion of the majority of the posters here that Cork has the hinterland, population base, intellectual structure and connections to be a truly successful international city, and the majority of us live away from the city and have high hopes of the City attracting the kind of employers that will allow us top pursue our career goals without having to live in Dublin or London.

We have created a Pharma centre of excellence, and now we should have our eyes on creating a centre of excellence for finance and ict.

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
I do not understand how quoting prime rents can be used to support a theory when a tenant list is used to deride. Office space and costs provide a very good indication as Diaspora pointed out, however tenant lists are equally as important as it demonstrates the types of companies willing of invest in an area and the overall quality of an end product.

I know exactly what your saying and of course the ‘anchor tenant’ will make or break a scheme. But listing non-anchors lengthens the posts.

Originally posted by d_d_dallas
Does anyone think that the redeveloped ILAC will be a success unless it can attract A-list tenants rather than the decidely mostly F-list it currently has. Good development is founded on the promise of a financial return. Bid hitting retail outfits with large pockets to pay large rents make it worth while to invest in a shiny impressive premises. The same applies to the Cornmarket St development so championed by Lexington.

The ILAC suffered for three reasons, firstly the type of retailer in the Irish market now wasn’t here when it first opened. The biggest names back then were all domestic or minor UK like BHS there were no Zara or House of Frazier looking for space in Ireland.

Secondly most of the action was in the suburban shopping centres such as Northside or Dunlaiore, inner city Dublin was not a pleasant experience back then.

Thirdly most of the better occupiers of the Ilac centre left for the better Jervis Centre in 1995, and rightly so.

The Jervis Centre can withstand the onslaught that will be Dundrum because it is a pleasant space to shop in.

Can the Central Merchants (Quay?) centre in Cork survive O’Callaghans edge city super mall?

Todays a-list tenants are not necessarily going to be so prime in 5-10 years time fashions change the architecture remains.

A bit of tax designation for the Docklands wouldn’t be a bad idea, the IFSC model works economically if not architecturally. As rents rise occupiers expect a better looking building, that is why I am often jealous of projects in London such as the Gherkin or even the older LLyods building.

Originally posted by phil

Do we still need to present our passports before entering Jervis Centre? 🙂

Sorry to be discussing this on a Cork thread but the theme carries through on the impacts of O’Callaghans giant scheme as well.

There is over a million square feet of retail in the Dundrum scheme, it also has better access to some of the most affluent areas in the Country outside of West Cork of course.

Blanchardstown will be down a good bit, Liffey Valley will be slaughtered and Jervis Centre will be down a lot less because they put the money into its design and fitout.

Originally posted by Diaspora
The Jervis Centre can withstand the onslaught that will be Dundrum because it is a pleasant space to shop in.

Can the Central Merchants (Quay?) centre in Cork survive O’Callaghans edge city super mall?

Todays a-list tenants are not necessarily going to be so prime in 5-10 years time fashions change the architecture remains.

A bit of tax designation for the Docklands wouldn’t be a bad idea, the IFSC model works economically if not architecturally. As rents rise occupiers expect a better looking building, that is why I am often jealous of projects in London such as the Gherkin or even the older LLyods building.

I agree the Jervis Centre is a pleasant place to shop and Project Management did a lovely job on it – with a considerate approach to its surroundings. I only pray for such consideration in the other O’Callaghan Properties retail development for Academy Street (right off Patrick’s Street) in Cork. The 6-storey over basement development will consume the entire block – the former Examiner HQ, Johnson & Perrott, Grand Circle Lounge, Taboo, TJS, Ryans and so on – and cost 150m euro (est’d). I should only hope a Jervis Centre standard is enacted. I’ll have first drafts in early Jan 2005 hopefully.

Merchants Quay was originally developed by O’Callaghan Properties, Heron Property (UK) and Treasury Holdings. It was sold a few years ago to a First Active Trust. Therefore, MQ is not O’Callaghan’s concern, Mahon Point SC (60,000sq m gross + retail park) is. And in a few years, The Academy Plaza will be his concern when CGNU or such funds buy into O’Callaghan’s stake in conjunction with Deka. The reason I list tenants, regardless of status (and I only did it once) is because it reflects the investment trends in Cork – and also displays the confidence various businesses install in the region. Even if an established retailler like Pull & Bear wish to open another store at MP, it shows the confidence they reflect in their business here.

I agree trends come and go, architecture lasts – and that is why I have never been a fan of MP’s design (despite beliefs otherwise) and would be a fan of say, Cornmarket Street Development – it is a considerate design with respect to the city centre and existing historical structures.

In addition, Ballincollig Town Centre, reflects another large scale retail SC (40,000sq m gross) and will house 3 large anchor stores in addition to 35 further retail units of varying sizes. A good tenant list has been composed.

As for Docklands Tax Designation – this issue is something I am actively involved in and it is a work in progress. I just hope our efforts succeed.

I do not think that the Mahon point scheme, which Diaspora refers to as “O’Callaghans edge city super mall” will have as strong an effect as he suggests. Although it is a large de-centred development, it will be strongly linked into the core, through a network of green bus routes and park and ride sites. It is my opinion that the local authorities in Cork have taken a wholistic approach to the retail strategy for the region. After the formation of three local authorites in Dublin, ( not sure of their respective titles Fingal, Dun Laoghaire Rathdown and South Dublin) each one acted in their own interest to allow retail schemes to go ahead in their area, perhaps the prospect of loosing out on the rates a liffey valley or Dundrum would bring to their budget, to another authority was too horrible to contemplate. So that is why I propose that Cork has developed a more balanced retail strategy for the Cork Metropolitan region through the cooperation of our 2 local authorities, which places Cork city centre firmly on the top of our retail hierachy.

The World Economic forum has mentioned the central economic policies of Ireland as one of the factors which has kept Ireland from moving up the list of most competitive countries this year.
Is this proof enough of the narrow vision which persists in the eyes of policymakers in this country? Do they live in a reality which doesn’t stretch beyond the Pale? Maybe when the whole East coast has become one large Technoburb of Dublin, in which people spend half their lives in their cars, they might de-centralise a few civil servants and sure the problem will instantly vanish.
We need to implement proper spatial planning in this country and enable other centres of population to grow, at a sustainable level, as a serious counterpoint to Dublin.
In Cork we have the oppurtunity to do this. The docklands, in my opinion, is not just vital for the City but also the whole country. It could provide a viable alternative to Dublin, which I think would be better for traffic on the M50 than any spagetti junction on the Red Cow Roundabout.

Does anyone know what’s going on at the william o brien site on bandon road? there’s been groundwork going on there for the last few weeks, are there any intentions of developing this site for commercial/retail purposes? I do remember hearing about ward anderson’s plans for a cinema there a few years back, but havent heard anything since. Further out the road there seems to be a large development in the works also, any info?What about the dockyard in passage west, i saw drawings for quite an attractive apartment scheme a few years back, coupled with marina i think, i havent heard anything though since, and there has been no activity down that way that i know of. quite a pity actually, it was aesthetically refreshing, and would have served a major improvement to the towns streetscape, aswell as an interesting feature on entering the upper harbour for boats.was this proposal turned down?for what reasons?any info appreciated

🙂 A plan has been launched to develop a new medical facility on the site of the former Bowen Construction HQ on the Lee Road. The 7m euro project will provide for 17 consultant suites and associated works. An application has be lodged with Cork County Council this week – construction is hoped to begin in mid-Jan 2005.

🙁 Clinton Cards who had been paying prime Zone A rents on their 1,850sq ft premises on Patrick’s Street, Cork have Closed Down their store. The UK Cards Company had been paying 4273 euros per sq m! (or 508,000 euro p.a.)

– The company cited intense competition from Hallmark, Thoughts, Porters and the many other card companies operating within the immediate area. In light of this competition plus rents (which were being reassessed and rounded up for 2005) – the company issued a statement saying competition in the city centre made for unviable sustainability for such a business. It said that it intends to forge ahead with its Mahon Point store due for a Feb 2005 launch – as this premises should allow for sole market access at this location. Clinton Cards, who are also experiencing financial turbulence at home in the UK, said that though the market was ripe in Cork for such services as they provide, it was a market that was dominated by established entities on Patrick’s Street and a market they could not successfully penetrate.

Sad news, but already, another major international store operator has been cited for the Clinton premises. Monsoon (right next store) are also rumoured to be trying to expand their highly successful store – this may provide the perfect opportunity.

🙂 JD Hotels are due to receive a decision on their plans for 77/78 Grand Parade tomorrow (Tues 19th Oct). The company plans to demolished 78 Grand Parade (retaining the facade of 77), 1,2,3,4,5,6 & 7 Tobin Street, and redeveloped the site in the form of a 4-storey restaurant and late-night bar with ancillary offices. The design is by Wilson Architecture.

:rolleyes: O’Flynn Construction’s 7 year, 500m euro Ballincollig Town Centre development in the western suburbs of Cork city is seeing its firts 28 houses come on the market, with Sherry Fitzgerald handling enquiries. The houses on sale, part of the Old Quarter element, start at 355,000 euro for a 3 bedroom semi-detached. They will be the first batch of ultimately 791 units in all.

Nearby at the Murphy’s Barracks Square, as part of the BTC development, over 120,000sq ft of office space is due to get under construction in the next few months.

However, its news on the Ballincollig Town Centre Shopping Centre that people seem anxious about. The BTC SC will be 44,000sq m in gross space – internal space will be only 17,875sq m – with 3 anchor tenants and 35 smaller retail units. O’Flynn Construction have informed me they have a quality line-up under final negotiation – and according to Colliers Jackson-Stops and HOK, the units have attracted a lot of interest. In an early post I deducted that a possible tenant could be Marks & Spencers (although a certain Cork tabloid quoted me as saying [non-acknowledgedly] that it was a dead cert) – who had been actively pursuing an additional Cork city store – but due to financial troubles back home, had had their hands tied, and were unable to locate at Mahon Point – ultimately, Tesco stepped into that position. It seemed BTC was an ideal location – Dunnes Stores had 2 stores nearby at Bishopstown Court and Bishopstown SC (both which were undergoing expansion) – it would seem a poor strategic move to locate at BTC given the proximity of the other 2 stores. SuperValu already had 2 stores in Ballincollig. Superquinn had been quoted as saying it was enticing but not part of the strategic growth plan. Tesco were already investing heavily in Wilton and Mahon Point (Tesco bought Wilton SC for 80m euros from a trust fund and spent a further 12m renovating and extending it). So, with all the major players to one side, M&S seemed the ideal choice – given their history and earlier intentions. However, I am informed that Dunnes Stores have made a serious bid proposal to anchor the grocery element (and possible clothing anchor) at BTC. O’Flynn have told me that they are at least 1 of 3 bidders – but the favourite. I am aware of the other 2, but I’m not sure of the extent of their bids and negotiations. In a city saturated by Dunnes Stores already (who are reviewing expansion plans for their Patrick’s Street original store) – do we really need another one? A little choice would be nice. In Cork it’s either Tesco, Dunnes or SuperValu – M&S to a lesser extent. I, personally, would like to see a little variation. I’ll let you know further details soon.

Apologises, but I have been advised to remove the BTC tenant list until a more appropriate time later this year, or earlier next year.

The BTC SC is due to open October 2005.

…speaking of Christmas lights – I recall that we were promised an amazing new display for this year. That message was put out over a year ago and I have heard nothing since. Anyone know if there are indeed plans for something new?