Look at de state of Cork, like!
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ah can’t you give us just a hint of the names that you have heard that are looking at cornmarket st. A really subltle one that those “nice but dim” people in the local press won’t get and can’t write as their own.
Please
Just like to say that your insight into development in Cork City is greatly appreciated by information hungry people like myself.Originally posted by satanta99
ah can’t you give us just a hint of the names that you have heard that are looking at cornmarket st. A really subltle one that those “nice but dim” people in the local press won’t get and can’t write as their own.
Sorry, but I can’t make the same mistakes twice. Rockfell’s development (though I wish it was their previous application on the Guy & Co site) is among the projects I rate most important to Cork’s development. It’s success will determine the tactical and strategic future of Cornmarket Street in a big way – almost more than any CCC investment in the area. Rockfell and CCC have been in long-term discussions with each other on the site, and it is suggested that CCC (especially Joe Gavin and Ronnie McDowell) seriously pursued the retail element of the project, a move a strongly support. Though the retail element is approx. 120,000 sq ft, I still believe it could have been more diverse. A major department store is the way to go on this one.
The projects most important projects at planning stages now in Cork are undoubtedly as follows:
1. Water Street
2. Rockfell’s project on Cornmarket Street
3. John Mannix’s Washington Street project
4. O’Flynn Construction’s Eglinton Street Project
5. Howard Holding’s Albert Quay development
6. Corbett Bros. Parnell Place development
7. and pretty much any Cornmarket Street, Lavitts Quay, Docklands development in the process at the moment.These projects, in no particular order, are vital and I sincerely hope they succeed. However, there are many more, just as important projects in the works, and I will inform you of them when I am allowed to.
*UPDATES*S. Meehan has just applied for a development of a 3 level multi-storey car park and additional commercial units at Grenville Place (end of Bachelor’s Quay – as par my previous post if anyone remembers).
Walking through Patrick Street on Saturday, I was shocked to see a big Portakabin outside Golden Discs/H Samuel, housing the contents of the former CIE shelter that used to be opposite Merchant’s Quay. Please tell me that this is a temporary arrangement.
Was planning permission required for this cabin?
There was a lot of debate when the original shelter was being removed. At the time a lot of people felt it was unsightly and unnecessary.What is it with CIE (Bus Eireann) and the taxi ranks? They seem hell-bent on cluttering up our new spacious main street.
Beth Gali said her design was to give Patrick Street ‘back to the people’. It would be nice to think this concept could be put into practice. 😉
its true, the taxi situation needs to be contolled badly, they have ruined the space up by the statue. the city council seem to be afraid to take them on and shift their stand off the street, they are acting like pure bullyboys…and getting away with it. the taxi drivers believe that pana was refurbished to facilitate them and them only, its a pity really cause the street looks and feels remarkably well and is now a real pleasure to perambulate, and doing pana of an afternoon has been restored as an age old tradition in a street environment it deserves. ?
any news on that high rise apartment block down the docks Lexington?
was home over the weekend and I thought Cork was looking alot cleaner than a few months ago, a slap of tarmac goes a long way, and at last that drainage system has been finished!!
actually speaking of tarmac,does anyone know which streets in the city centre are going to be resurfaced over the coming months?Im thinking the South Mall and Parnell Place,they are both in a terrible condition.
Yeah Pana, that CIE Porta-cabin is only temporary (thank God!) and there was no planning permission required, it came as an incentive during works on Patrick’s Street – which is due to be entirely complete by the end of this week. Final bricks being laid outside Penneys (itself undergoing refurbishment and extension).
As for taxis, I myself, along with all other traffic except for buses and emergency vehicles, think they should be banned for accessing Patrick’s Street and shifted back to Academy Street or kept down at Parnell Place next to the bus station. For a brief time, taxi ranks were shifted to Academy Street, but local vendors and the taxi-drivers themselves kicked up claiming the arrangement was losing them business. This is a fecious argument, if all taxis were legally required to have their main ranks at Parnell Place or Academy Street, the public, if they wanted the service, would have to walk to these streets. The problem with the former arrangement was poor planning, poor public knowledge, and quite frankly, a stubborn reluctance by plate holders (taxi-drivers). New by-laws, however are in the planning at CCC.
And Torquemada, South Mall and Parnell Place are due a new layer of tarmac, but I can’t confirm dates yet. Already, the Western Road, Washington Street West, South Main Street, Grand Parade, Sheare’s Street, the Mardyke, Horgan’s Quay and Water Street have or are receiving new surfaces. The idea is to have all city arteries up to scratch before 2005. More streets, like
Washington Street, North Mall and the remainder of the Western Road are in line for a refurbishment.Leesider, as for the 19-storey Water Street development, the decision date for planning was due on the 21st of July 2004, but has been pushed back until September. From what I hear, even the sceptics are having a tough time catching the development out – the planning application is pretty well covered. However, this doesn’t mean exclusion of the possibility for a negative outcome, nor the fact that Further Info will be requested, nor the fact the outcome could be brought to ABP. I hope planning is granted and third parties won’t bring it to Appeal, it really is a top-notch project. Fingers crossed!
Oh oh – Heatons and Shaws are “department stores”… if they moved in to Guy’s that would cement Cornmarket St/North Main St area’s reputation as decidedly low rent.
CCC need to be careful what kind of retail operator get’s in. High quality international tenants are required at that end of Pat St if the area is to stand a fighting chance. Insisting on “department store” might be unwise, as it’s Cork we’re talking about. Selfridges are hardly banging on the door!weren’t debenhams interested before they chose mahon point?
Originally posted by d_d_dallas
Oh oh – Heatons and Shaws are “department stores”… if they moved in to Guy’s that would cement Cornmarket St/North Main St area’s reputation as decidedly low rent.
CCC need to be careful what kind of retail operator get’s in. High quality international tenants are required at that end of Pat St if the area is to stand a fighting chance. Insisting on “department store” might be unwise, as it’s Cork we’re talking about. Selfridges are hardly banging on the door!Hey Lexington have you seen the evening echo’s front page?
http://www.eveningecho.ie/pdf/front.pdf
This is going to be extremely important in the continued rise of Cork. Let’s hope they get the accoustics right.
Well, one must remember that it is Michael O’Donoghue behind Rockfell Investments, and if anyone is familiar with his hotel business (and lifestyle) I think the idea of Shaws or Heatons locating in his Cornmarket Street business is slim to none. (I can verify that also from my involvement). -> the site is zoned for Higher Order Retail Development, so if a department store does secure the space, it will be of a high standard (one name interested has just moved into Dublin). But if it doesn’t go the direction of department store, the development has been designed as 7 retail units which may be divided between a selection of upmarket retaillers.
I’ll try and do my best to get up CGIs of the Rockfell development on Cornmarket Street, and hopefully images of their previous proposal (so that we can sigh and long for what could have been). Their new proposal is essentially a scaled down version (3 floors less) of their last, but scaled down (in my opinion) in utility and prospect as well.
*UPDATES*City Manager Joe Gavin has confirmed today that 3 sites have been designated for the development of a 6000 seat conference centre and event centre.
The sites are located on Horgan’s Quay/Railway Street (as part of the CIE Development of the Northern Docklands [next to Water Street]- see previous post), The Cork Showgrounds (on the southern docklands) and the jutland along the Douglas River/Atlantic Pond at Mahon Point.
It is clear that the CCC favour the Horgan’s Quay site, and have said they have no trouble finding investors for the development here. Treasury Holdings, Manor Park Homes and CIE have been the names behind Horgan’s Quay most prevailently. However, their intention is primarily focused on the development of a major retail, commercial and residential quarter for the site. The convention centre would be ancillary to this. CCC intend to thus put up a PPP bid on the convention centre project for one of the sites, to be decided upon within the next few months. It is their intention to have the centre up and running by 2007.
The problem with the Showgrounds site, although nicely located on the southern docklands, is that the GAA are aggressively in pursuit of the site to provide new training facilities, an extended stadium at Pairc Ui Chaoimh and possibly a hotel and leisure centre. CCC are said to prefer this proposal (on the grounds PuC is to be redeveloped).
O’Callaghan Properties, who are behind the Mahon Point Convention Centre proposal, say they have been intensively involved in a feasibility study for the past 4 months. Owen O’Callaghan is obliged to provide such a facility under a clause of the sale agreement in which he purchased the Mahon Point lands from CCC. Otherwise he may face a payment to the council of 6m euro. O’Callaghan has said he has no interest in pursuing such a development in the city centre, and wishes to focus on Mahon Point, he noted that viability would be an issue for more than 1 such centre, but said that he knew of a vast interest in such development by other investors.
A landmark facility is, in my knowledge, probably most likely for Horgan’s Quay pending a move by O’Callaghan. CCC said they intend to purge ahead with the tender.
The remaining Horgan’s Quay development proposals incl. a redeveloped rail terminal w/ multistorey car-park and ancillary works. Up to 5000 residential units (over stages), offices, retail centres, leisure amenities (clubs, pubs, gyms etc), a central, landmark plaza, boardwalks and many more. The area is zoned for high-rise development (one Irish Examiner report mentioned buildings scaling between 20 stories). However, no developers have made firm commitals due to the lacklustre of CIE organisational skills. Hmmm.
Unfortunately, my spate with technology has ended in a stalemate, and I have been unable to post the images I attained from ABK Architects of the new 32m euro Cork City Hall Extension, contracted to Cleary Doyle.
As a result, I’ve had to avail of press images (reluctantly) in order to fulfill my promises that I’d get images of the development on site for you as soon as possible. Construction of the extension begins in September.
Once complete, the extension will stretch from Anglesea Street to Eglinton Street and be capable of facilitating ALL CCC departments. In addition, up to 400 car parking spaces will be catered for at basement and roof levels. A new internal pedestrian street will connect the 2 streets between which the development lies. The entire building is naturally ventilated, and although the design is clever, in my opinion, it is sub-par.
Plus, this is for those of you who had requested a clearer image of the Mahon Point SC development.
Although I haven’t seen the proposed new development for the the Guy and Co. Site, I am aware of the incresed retail aspect in comparison with the previous proposal. I agree with the decison of CCC to reject the aplication for a hotel on the site. This site is instrumental in the revitalisation of the street and I think Higher order retail uses would bring a greater footfall than a hotel in the area.
In the local press in the recent past, Habitat were said to be looking at a number of sites in the city, one in particular the old church site which is connected to the guy and co. site.
Speaking of Heitons I don’t know why they haven’t located on North Main st. Like buy that awful Leaders shop. Its a disgrace that they can have two rundown shop fronts on such an important street. I really can’t inderstand it.
If you think of the retailers which are currently expanding in Ireland you might be able to guess some of the names which could pop up on the Coalquay.
House of Fraiser are opening in Dundrum, a similar sized store. Also when Arrnots was brought private there was talk about another store outside the capital, belfast or cork were mentioned.
THen there is John Lewis which is opening soon in N. Ireland.
Other retailer which I’m just guessing could be interested could be Tk Maxx (already located in Limerick) H+M, Zara and the other inditex chains.
Also tHe carphone warehouse is going to stop trading out of its unit next to roches stores on Patrick street. Big name fashion retailers are rumoured to be looking at the site.Well first of all CCC didn’t reject the application for the hotel at the Guy & Co site, but it was ABP who made the refusal on a third party appeal by An Taisce and Corporation Housing Residents at the time.
The original hotel plan include 20 retail units with a combined area similar to that of the new plan, so in terms of higher order retail space, the proposal worked in line with the later revised Development Plan – and due to the variety that came with numerous units, a greater retail pull would have ensued. However, a development is only as good as its tenants. If the new propsal manages to attract the significant tenants it requires, it may still do exceedingly well. Under the plans that I am aware of, this looks so pending the correct outcome. And, that ‘church site’ to the rear of the Guy & Co site is actually part of the development site of which Rockfell have been involved in since 1998.
It would be highly unlikely that Zara would locate on Cornmarket Street (unless part of a department store concession) as they are opening their first stand alone store in Mahon Point in Feb 2005 (a Cornmarket Street location would depend highly on the success of their Mahon Point store – I’ve a feeling it will do well). Along with Pull and Bear and Mango (their 2nd Cork store). When Arnotts first issued authorised shares for capital, their expansion plans were limited to Dublin, and ever since, they have concentrated on developing their Henry Street premises, the most recent development being their purchase of the former Irish Independent Building. The particular market associated with Heitons or TK Maxx does not comply with Michael O’Donoghue’s intentions for his Cornmarket Street development – I would think along the lines of a more Brown Thomas-type market were a department store the successful outcome. Failing that, stores like Sisley, Espirit and so on, would be targeted for tenancy. At least, that is the plan – but at the end of the day, these retaillers pave the final decision based on their own plans. H&M would be a fabulous addition to the Irish and in particular, Cork market – but their expansion plans have only ever assessed Ireland, and never acted on them.
I will provide interested party names when they become available to me, for the Carphone Warehouse premises near Merchants Quay. Nearby, Jump Juice Bars have opened their 2nd store at the Savoy Centre. A start-up Irish company, with their other store in Waterford, have also been trying to attain a Mahon Point outlet, but the SC is apparently fully let at this stage. Jump are based on the Zumo Juice Bars model – but instead of franchising, their growth thus far has been entirely organic (no pun intended).I was unaware that the overall scale of the retail aspect was to have been the same in the previous proposal. Then I would have to agree with you that it would have been beneficial to the street. I just got the wrong impression from the original proposal that the retail aspect would give us something similar to the savoy centre, with small retail units. That was why I was happier to hear of the overall scale of the retail aspect. 120,000 sq ft I’m trying to picture this size and I think thats double the size of the new tesco store in Wilton. These larger floor plates are exactly what we need in Cork and the rest of the Irish cities to attract the big name retailers.
H+M are opening a store in Dundrum town centre. So at least they are making their first inroads into the Irish market.On another note, work on Oliver Plunket street is progressing well. Passing through today I could already get a feel for what the street will be like when finished. In the design there was another interesting design for the street lighting. No progress has been made on this front but I am looking forward to seeing them. I just remember talk about them as being able to change colour and being vandle proof. I wonder will they cause as much controversy as the ones on patrick st. Prob not!
*UPDATES*
->
Aldi Stores (Ireland) Developments Ltd have lodged a planning application with Cork City Council (CCC) for the demolition of the existing structures on site at Heiton Buckley premises on Tory Top Rd & the construction of a mixed use development scheme with a total of 2083m2 gross retail floor space, a creche 201m2, play area & 48 no duplex apts. The single storey Aldi Discount Food Store will be complimented by the creche and roof-top play area with the addition of 48 duplexes in six 4-storey blocks. The application represents Aldi’s largest development investment in Ireland so far and represents its plan to fall in line with Council suggestions for increased mixed-use development. This element was previously lacking in many of their other proposals and since has lost both Aldi and Lidl successful planning grants in the past.Aldi have also lodged applications for 3 more stores in Cork city, besides this development.
-> A number of high-profile developments in Cork have reached near ‘SOLD OUT’ status before they’ve even been completed, these include O’Callaghan Properties Office Development at 21 Lavitts Quay, John Hornibrook’s apartment development at Camden Quay (Camden Court) and Fleming Construction’s Trinity Court on George’s Quay.However, even more remarkable, Frinailla Developments project on Grand Parade, the Grand Parade Plaza, has sold almost all of its 50 apartments (starting at 390,000 euros each), with 80% of them going to owner-occupiers, and sold ALL of its underground car-parking spaces (between 70 and 90) at a price-tag of 80,000 euros each. A countrywide record. Furthermore, Atis Harrington-Bannon, estate agents for the retail element of the Plaza, have reported that almost all units have been let, sold or reserved already, all this before the project has even begun primary construction! Demolition activities have already taken place and archaelogical excavations are on-going (they seem to be on-going for months! [sigh]). However, John Paul Construction inform me, they intend to get to real work on the site in the next few weeks, possibly 2 weeks.
The 100m euro City Quarter office development by Howard Holdings on Lapps Quay is currently waiting for a grant of planning by CCC on the addition of another floor to the office element, bringing the building to 6-floors, in line with the Clarion Hotel element next-door. The application has been based on the strong take up and demand for office space within the development. Both Howard Holdings, DTZ Sherry Fitzgearld and Cohalan Downing letting and sale agents for the project are said to be delighted with the response to City Quarter. Howard Holdings intend to make head-way on their Albert Quay office/IT development (just across the river from City Quarter) within the next few weeks.
Just across Clontarf Street, at No.6 Lapps Quay, O’Flynn Construction are on-going with the development of their new office building, designed by Coughlan de Keyser Architects of Washington Street. Foundations are currently being laid, and primary construction is imminent according to the company. Although Lisney and Hamilton Osbourne King (the designated agents for the project) won’t specify the details of sale and letting agreements; I am aware of at least 3 agreements – and I have been informed that the response has been as enthusiastic as that experienced with O’Flynn’s neighbouring office development, No.5 Lapps Quay. It’s an exceptionally positive and encouraging indicator of the Cork office market, which is continuing to buck the national trend. It is a further testament to the fact, the reason many firms and businesses have located to the suburbs and other regions in the past, rather than Cork city centre, has been a distinct availability lack of quality 3rd Generation, sufficiently large office space. This lack is gradually being rectified, and subsequently developers are reaping the rewards of this.
No.6 Lapps Qy 
21 Lavitts Qymickeydocs – what was on the front page of that classy “news”paper? The link changes everyday (i.e. the current front page)
dallas the echo had an article about the concert/coference venue planned for Cork. There are 3 options, 1 city centre (Horgan’s quay), 1 for the showgrounds, and 1 for Mahon Point. The CCC would prefer the city centre option, but it looks like O’Callaghan is going to push ahead with the Mahon one and there is no economic sense in having 2!
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