Limerick City Boundary Extension
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@djasmith wrote:
If the boundary extends out much further my car insurance will go up 😮
Ah Dave, I would say that your dad’s car insurance premiums are safe enough in south Dublin, well for the time been anyway. Have you finished primary school yet?
@CologneMike wrote:
Ah Dave, I would say that your dad’s car insurance premiums are safe enough in south Dublin, well for the time been anyway. Have you finished primary school yet?
Maybe Dave is all growed-up now and studying architecture at SAUL?
@djasmith wrote:
If the boundary extends out much further my car insurance will go up 😮
Well then we better make sure this extension dosen’t go ahead so!
Maybe you should try lobbying the Minister, it almost worked with Noel Dempsey this week! :rolleyes:
@CologneMike wrote:
Ah Dave, I would say that your dad’s car insurance premiums are safe enough in south Dublin, well for the time been anyway. Have you finished primary school yet?
Maybe it will come down when balance and community is brought forward. Insurance and other such things are trivial and is only a problem since the city council is understrapped within its current boundaries.
Right now Limerick is falling out because of this boundary issue!.
This boundaray issue is causing more problems than just insurance. Lets get real here. And if you all woken up too it would be great.
@CologneMike wrote:
Ah Dave, I would say that your dad’s car insurance premiums are safe enough in south Dublin, well for the time been anyway. Have you finished primary school yet?
Wonderful to see people do some research before posting 😀
Maybe Dave is all growed-up now and studying architecture at SAUL?
Maybe 😉
Ed Walsh won’t chair boundary committee (Limerick Leader)
By David Hurley
THE founding President of the University of Limerick, Dr Ed Walsh, has ruled himself out of the running as a possible candidate to chair the independent committee which will examine the possible extension of the city boundary.
Earlier this month it was confirmed that Environment Minister, John Gormley, is to establish the committee, which will report back to Government within four months.Members of the independent committee, including its chairperson, will be appointed in the coming weeks.
The administration of Limerick City has long been a hot issue with politicians and business people on either side of the boundary who hold strong views on the matter.
Minister Willie O’Dea has previously admitted that the boundary has posed difficulties since the foundation of the state and that it needs to be addressed for once and for all.
Responding to suggestions that he was in line to be appointed as chairman, Dr Ed Walsh, who supports the concept of a single authority for Limerick, said he was flattered but that he does not have an interest in the position and would not accept it if it is offered to him.
However, he welcomed the imminent establishment of the committee.
“When the city is divided in three as it is at present between the city council and County Clare and County Limerick, you find that there is no plan for the future of the city and there is no plan for prospective investors and as a result Limerick has fared very badly for some time so this is a great step,” he said.
“Limerick united under one local authority with a boundary that corresponds to the urban area will be a much stronger city and the region will be a much stronger region,” he added.
When it is formally established, the Limerick Local Government Committee will be tasked by Minister Gormley to prepare a report into the most appropriate arrangements for local government for the city and county.
It will also investigate the possibility of directly elected political leadership like the model recently agreed by Government for Dublin.
Cllr. Kevin Sheahan of Limerick County Council is not a happy camper though!
I think he’s just pissed that they might no longer be able to use the rates from the city suburbs to fill the pot holes back in wesshht Limerick! 🙂
Call to end rezoning for retail in midwest (Irish Times)
GORDON DEEGAN
THE MIDWEST Regional Authority is calling on local authorities in the midwest not to zone any more land for retail development and to dezone land already zoned for housing in the region.
In the draft regional planning guidelines for Limerick city and county, Clare and north Tipperary 2010 to 2022, the authority says the amount of large-scale retail development either built or permitted meets all reasonable requirements up to 2022. “It is clear, therefore, that further retail development will inevitably have detrimental impacts on some existing established retail areas and that these impacts may be irreversible.
“Limerick city centre, which has already suffered from increased competition is likely to suffer further significant impacts which would be contrary to the objective and need to provide a vibrant and successful gateway core area,†it adds. Outlining the implications for local authorities’ development plans in the region, the guidelines state that councils “should provide for no net increase in floor space of large retail developments other than that arising from redevelopment projects, including regeneration, in town and cityâ€.
The authority is also calling on councils to act on overzoning for housing in the region.
In the guidelines, the regional authority has ruled that the Government’s Special Development Zone (SDZ) approach is not an appropriate mechanism for development in the region. The SDZ approach allows for local authorities to be bypassed with applications decided by An Bord Pleanála.
The report says the authority established a Strategic Development Zone committee to consider whether, where and for what purpose an SDZ might be identified within the region. “After a considerable number of meetings, this committee completed its remit and decided that the SDZ model would not be beneficial,†it states.
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Three British stores on Limerick’s Cruise’s Street close (Limerick Leader)
By Anne Sheridan
THREE stores on Cruise’s Street have closed in the past month, and more city stores are expected to shut in the coming months as they evaluate their businesses in the new year.
The pedestrianised shopping zone saw the closure of British chain Dorothy Perkins at 6 Cruise’s Street; the shoe store Barratt’s at No 5, and the Early Learning Centre, which has moved in with Mothercare.
Barrett’s and Dorothy Perkins have outlets in the Crescent Shopping Centre
The hole in the doughnut is getting bigger and bigger 🙁 . If the pedestrianised Cruise’s Street can’t hold its own against the shopping centres in the “countyâ€, then what commercial future does the city centre have?
The whiff of bullshit emanating from Limerick county hall is becoming pretty unbearable at this stage!
With such embarrassingly uneducated attitudes, is it any wonder the city is in such dire straits? It really does highlight everything that is wrong with local government in Ireland!:(
Happily this charade should be coming to an end fairly soon. I look forward to the day when the suburban rates are finally used for their intended purpose! 🙂
Councillors formulate strategy over Limerick boundary commission (Limerick Leader)
LIMERICK county councillors may meet their city counterparts on the issue of a single local authority or boundary alteration in the coming weeks.
Cllr Kevin Sheahan proposed the move in view of the Minister for the Environment, John Gormley’s, decision to appoint a commission to report on the feasibility of the proposed council or boundary changes.Cllr Sheahan called for a sub-committee to be put in place that would be willing to have discussions with representatives of Limerick City Council.
Cllr Eddie Wade proposed the council write to all the local members in the Oireacthas to get their views because, he said, some hadn’t been “consistent” over the years.
He said when Limerick City Council talked about the boundary extension they only ever spoke about Castletroy, Dooradoyle, Monaleen and never Ballysheedy, Ballysimon or Donoughmore.
However, Cllr John Sheahan said it was premature to set up a sub-committee to meet city council.
“I propose members of this authority sit in-committee to get agreement across all parties. Cllr Eddie Wade spoke about consistency. Let’s be consistent as 28 members. If they have done their job they will have one voice,” said Cllr John Sheahan.
He said the process should be done chronologically – give the Oireacthas members two weeks to give their reply, then meet in-committee with the manager, an extension of that will be Cllr Kevin Sheahan’s motion.
His concern was that the whole process was a “fait accompli, brought in within the law not with agreement by the people. Will it go to Cabinet and be sanctioned, and we will all be redundant? This is getting serious. The Cabinet is wielding a stick.”
Cllr Kevin Sheahan said moving a city problem into the county wasn’t a solution.
“We need a strong prosperous Limerick city, but not at a price I can’t afford,” he said.
Cllr John Egan was opposed to moving the city into the county as he had seen the relocation of people and that “sheaves of County Limerick won’t be looked after”.
“The city is short of funds. We won’t be providing funds for the city to pay for regeneration. It’s all a smokescreen,” he said.
Cllr James Collins said he understood that there were only two choices – move into the city environs, or one local authority.
“My understanding is there is no C. What we’re trying to get across is what’s best for Limerick. A strong city is a strong county. If we lose the environs, we lose 40 per cent of commercial rates. We will not be able to prosper and progress,” said Cllr Collins, who added that the best interests of Limerick would be served by one local authority., compared to a boundary extension
Cllr Mary Harty said the city council wanted an extension because it was stuck for money.
“It’s not about quality of service, it’s about money,” she said.
Cllr Mary Jackman asked why was the city extending outwards?
“We should be looking in and taking over. In comparison to other Munster counties, Limerick’s towns are much smaller. The environs help enormously to keep the county going. We have a better record in running our business,” said Cllr Jackman.
Cllr Pat O’Donovan said there were two types of Limerick people, and it was “to hell with you if you are living in south Limerick, east Limerick, west Limerick”.
“There is never any mention of Mountcollins or Pallasgreen, just Dooradoyle, Monaleen and Castletroy. Small rural parishes will be chewed up and spat out. The whole debate from day one is about money. Since Job was a boy, the city council has been in the red,” said Cllr O’Donovan, who added the two Government backbenchers had conveniently forgotten about their local authority.
Cllr Eddie Ryan noted that Tipperary wasn’t short of town councils yet they wanted one in Limerick, and that he was “very fearful” about what would happen to services in rural areas.
Cllr Tomas Hannon was not in favour of one authority and pointed to HSE rationalisation. He said it should be discussed “in-house, and, as far as possible, we should be of one voice.”
Ned Gleeson, county manager, said it was an opportunity to devise a set of new options. He said it was his understanding that the commission’s brief was not to look at any specific thing, but to look at the governance of Limerick.
“Boundaries and maps are not the way to solve theses issues,” said Mr Gleeson, who said they weren’t confined to coming up with just an A or a B approach in the councillors’ committee meeting, but a C, or even a D.
Tuborg, that article is fascinating! It shows just how nervous the county councillors are getting. Do you still think that Gormley will rubber-stamp an extension once the committe reports? It’s going to be difficult.
Cllr Mary Jackman asked why was the city extending outwards?
Jaaaaaysus“We should be looking in and taking over. In comparison to other Munster counties, Limerick’s towns are much smaller. The environs help enormously to keep the county going. We have a better record in running our business,†said Cllr Jackman.—- says it all really ,doesnt it ???
@zulutango wrote:
Tuborg, that article is fascinating! It shows just how nervous the county councillors are getting. Do you still think that Gormley will rubber-stamp an extension once the committe reports? It’s going to be difficult.
If the boundary committee recommends anything less than a full boundary extension, the report will have been a farce and a complete waste of time! However, it’s the Minister that ultimately has the final say on the matter and I would be reasonably confident that he’ll make the right decision!
Listening carefully to John Gormley’s comments over the last year or so. Unlike his predecessor’s, he hasn’t been afraid to offer an opinion on the boundary question. He seems to recognise that the status quo cannot be maintained and that the issue needs to be tackled once and for all!
I hope he’s also less likely to allow petty, small-minded parochialism to influence his decision!
@Griff wrote:
Cllr Mary Jackman asked why was the city extending outwards?
Jaaaaaysus“We should be looking in and taking over. In comparison to other Munster counties, Limerick’s towns are much smaller. The environs help enormously to keep the county going. We have a better record in running our business,†said Cllr Jackman.—- says it all really ,doesnt it ???
It’s an incredible comment alright isn’t it?
Heres a thought! Maybe Limerick County Council should have actually concentrated more of it’s time and energy on promoting and developing the county towns rather than piggybacking on the growth of Limerick City! :rolleyes:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Denis-Brosnan-to-chair-new.6084637.jp
interesting the articles mentions ‘this process will be swift with recommendations expected to be sent to Environment Minister John Gormley in the next three months.’…
but what will happen to them then – will John Gormley still be in govenrment next summer ?..One thing that really annoys me about this debate – and maybe Im getting the wrong end of the stick here – but to me it is not about a city v county or in particular city council versus county council.. its about the region having a city whose population number reflects its size and not the number of people within a 60 year old political boundary.
Still think its a mistake trying to add in bits of Clare… Shannon banks , Westbury etc…
@Griff wrote:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/Denis-Brosnan-to-chair-new.6084637.jp
One thing that really annoys me about this debate – and maybe Im getting the wrong end of the stick here – but to me it is not about a city v county or in particular city council versus county council.. its about the region having a city whose population number reflects its size and not the number of people within a 60 year old political boundary.
Let’s just hope that the Government actually take Denis Brosnan’s recommendations on board this time unlike what happened with the jobs task that he headed! :rolleyes:
I must admit, I’ve been astonished by the levels of ignorance, small mindedness and general nonsense I’ve encountered over this issue! I’ve actually heard people from the likes of Dooradoyle, Raheen etc claiming that if the city council “take over” the “county area” as they put it, “they”ll try and close down the crescent sc!” 😮 You just couldn’t make this stuff up!
I actually wouldn’t be surprised if one of the local county councillor’s came up with that one! 😮
Traders stop traffic to protest about decline in fortunes of Limerick city centre (Limerick Leader)
By Nick Rabbitts
CITY traders have sent a message to Limerick City Council: enough is enough, it’s time to stop the rot.
Angry and deeply frustrated traders brought traffic on O’Connell Street to a standstill this Thursday morning in protest at a number of issues which have seen footfall drastically decrease.These include what they see as unfair parking fines, begging, drug abuse, the level of the commercial rate, complaints about litter and poor marketing of the city.
Following the demonstration, the City Council has moved to hold a meeting with the traders next Thursday afternoon, with Fine Gael’s leader on the council Ger Fahy insisting no issue will be left untouched. Kieran Scullane of Aroma Coffee House said he is unable to pay his rates – and will be lucky to stay open for even a few more months if things do not improve.
Meanwhile, Tony Daley, who has been in business for 52 years in Limerick, claimed the City Council has taken its eye off the city centre.
But Cllr Fahy has insisted the traders’ concerns are being listened to – and that next week’s meeting is a result of this.
Speaking on O’Connell Street this Thursday morning, Eleanor O’Brien of the Limerick City Business Association – who has worked in the city since the age of 17 – says trade has reached an all-time low.
“The city has been expected to produce and provide all these years, and you get nothing back. Shops in the city centre are providing more employment than anywhere else in Limerick, yet we are paying the highest dividend for that. We need the City Council to take us seriously – it’s their job. We are paying their wages,” she told the Limerick Leader.
Problems with begging, a lack of a garda presence, and people taking drugs on Limerick’s city streets were also major bones of contention for traders.
Ms O’Brien added: “There is an immediate remedy to begging on the street. We need a garda presence. We are told by the gardai that the crime rate is down in Limerick, but I think sometimes this is not the case. We are not being listened to, or attended to quickly enough. If these people are on the streets, why are they not being removed? It’s a disturbance. You are not allowed to drink on the streets – why are you allowed to take drugs? The reason for this is there is no garda presence – they know they will get away with it.”
Some very legitimate concerns expressed there that nobody could argue with!
I was actually talking to someone who attended a meeting between city centre retailers and the City Council last week. According to him, there was some stinging criticism levelled at the council who were accused of being in denial over the magnitude of the problem!
The clown Kevin Kiely took particular exception to some of the comments and basically accused retailers of exaggerating! 😡
He also walked out of the meeting well before it concluded!
more ráiméis from Cathal Crowe (Fianna Fáil)
‘Not an inch’ says Clare, but Green councillor disagrees
Written by John O’Shaughnessy
Monday, 19 April 2010 07:54‘NOT AN INCH’. No, not the often quoted words of Rev. Ian Paisley, but rather members of Clare County Council to Government proposals to allow Limerick City Council to encroach into part of county Clare.
At a special meeting of Clare County Council this week, Cllr Cathal Crowe told colleagues that he had no faith in Limerick City Council to administer any part of his native Clare.
He claimed that Limerick only saw the dollar signs by extending their boundary to such places as Raheen and Dooradoyle.
Cllr Crowe described Limerick City Council as pathetic and going nowhere.
“They should not be allowed to take an inch”.
He won the support of Independent councillor James Breen, and Fine Gael’s Joe Arkins, alleged that Limerick City Council had ghettoised social housing in Limerick.
Meanwhile, Fianna Fail’s PJ Kelly said Limerick’s pushing for a boundary extension was because of the financial misadventure and failure of Limerick City Council.
The Green’s Brian Meaney failed to weigh in behind those opposed to the plan, arguing that the region needed a strong midwest and a vibrant Limerick, if it was to prosper.
Another meeting has been arranged for this Thursday to discuss the issue further.
A Limerick Local Government Committee was set up by Minister John Gormley earlier this year to make recommendations on what he referred to as the most appropriate local government arrangements for Limerick.
A decision on this issue just can’t come soon enough really. Although it is kind of entertaining listening to those village idiots embarrassing themselves on a regular basis. 🙂
I have been listening carefully to Tony Killeen’s comments over the last while. I feared he would be a bit of a parish pumper and nothing I’ve heard so far changes that view. It’s clear he takes a fairly primative & parochial stance on the boundary issue. Hardly surprising really I suppose. He can’t be seen to be angering the good people of the Republic of Clare now can he? :rolleyes:
Boundary could ‘dissipate energy’, Minister claims (Limerick Independent)
THE Minster for Defence, Tony Killeen has told the Limerick Independent that the promotion of the Mid-West for foreign investors would not be enhanced by where the location of the boundary between Limerick and Clare lies. Minister Kileen, the only voice at the Cabinet table for this region, said he had heard lots of speculation about the controversial boundary, but that he found it “very difficult to rationalise” how the location of the boundary might be central to any positive direction for growth in the local economy.
“Even if we’re looking in the context of the document that is being released today. It’d be very hard to see how the location of the boundary would impact on the capacity to have positive outcomes arising out of the report’s recommendations. One of the things that would worry me is that we would dissipate an enormous amount of energy and effort and time in pursuing issues like the boundary issue, when there are very clearly a whole lot of other major issues in the area of job creation and related areas-the airport and so on and so forth-that we really should be concentrating our efforts on,” Minster Killeen added.
@Tuborg wrote:
A decision on this issue just can’t come soon enough really. Although it is kind of entertaining listening to those village idiots embarrassing themselves on a regular basis. 🙂
I have been listening carefully to Tony Killeen’s comments over the last while. I feared he would be a bit of a parish pumper and nothing I’ve heard so far changes that view. It’s clear he takes a fairly primative & parochial stance on the boundary issue. Hardly surprising really I suppose. He can’t be seen to be angering the good people of the Republic of Clare now can he? :rolleyes:
I read a bit of Matthew Potters book about the history of Limerick Corporation – interesting stuff – Ill have to buy the book next time im in OMahoneys!… whats funny about the ‘not an inch’ attitude is that much of the area that LCC are looking to expand into in Co Clare was actually part of Limerick city from 1600 up to 1841 !!… prior to that there was no County Clare ( or Limerick for that matter)… the city of Limerick had control/governance over its hinterland – the agricultural area around the city – this area on the north of the Shannon stretched out to Cratloe and beyond. A civil servant in Dublin redrew the boundary in 1841 under instruction to reduce the city boroughs of Ireland back to where the streets and buildings stopped. The north Liberties were absorbed into Clare and the south Liberties into county Limerick.No where has this reduction had more impact than Limerick due to its proximity to a neighbouring county – perhaps Waterford which has a similar headache with Kilkenny. So the poor people of Cratloe and Meelick are being denied their Limerickness!…What is sickening is the claims from politicians in Clare and Limerick Co.Co. that LCC only want to expand because they want more money … of course this is partly true – but its not as if the 2 other authorities havnt been treating Limerick like an ATM machine for years – cashing in but doing sweet FA for the city.Whats galling is the amount of peripheral development allowed by the county council – sucking the life out of the city. Im no great fan of LCC and some of whats been built in town is truly horrible – but I for one would like to see the ‘welcome to Limerick city’ sign back in its original spot… around Setrights..
If I had my way, County Councils would be abolished along with the giant junket that is passed off as local representation!
They are a hugely inefficient and wasteful means of local governance. While the county boundary element just serves to reinforce a parochial and small minded mentality. This failure to see the bigger picture is been illustrated very clearly at the moment in the debate over the Limerick City boundary.
Ideally local governance would be rationalised and administered on a regional/provincial basis. Although the major urban areas would still require their own dedicated authorities.
Unfortunately though, such a radical shake-up would result in a lot less jobs for the boys so that makes it a total non-runner! :rolleyes:
Plan to unify Clare, Limerick councils (Irish Times)
FRANK McDONALD and GORDON DEEGAN
RADICAL PROPOSALS to extend Limerick city’s boundary and replace Clare, Limerick and north Tipperary county councils with a unified regional authority have been made by An Taisce.
In a submission to the boundary committee appointed by Minister for the Environment John Gormley, the Limerick branch of An Taisce argues that replacing the three existing “hinterland local authorities†with a single authority would lead to cost savings.
“A unified hinterland authority combined with an expanded city would have the benefit of replacing four authorities with two and place the hinterland on a more equal footing with the city while also directing it towards the city that forms its core,†it says.
Adopting Limerick County Council’s proposal for a unified authority covering both the city and county would “weaken the focus of any new combined authority, given the different nature of the problems faced by an urban, suburban and rural populationsâ€.
Instead, the submission proposes that the Limerick city boundary should be extended to encompass all of the contiguous suburban areas such as Castletroy and Dooradoyle (currently in Co Limerick) and Caherdavin and Parteen in Co Clare.
“We suggest that in addition to an enlarged city area, a new mid- west authority could be formed out of a merger of Clare-Limerick county and north Tipperary,†An Taisce says. “This would provide the significant savings called for in the McCarthy report.
“In making our submission, we believe that any extension or revisions to the boundary of the city and surrounding county-based local authorities should be done in such a way as not to require substantial revisiting for a generation,†it adds.
In its submission to the boundary committee, Clare County Council said there was “no justification whatsoever†for extending the Limerick city boundary into Co Clare, which it described as a “distinct geographic area†which attracted strong loyalty.
At a special meeting last week to adopt the 20-page submission, Independent councillor James Breen declared “not an inchâ€, while Fine Gael councillor Johnny Flynn said the people of Limerick city were voting with their feet by choosing not to live inside the city council area.
Mayor of Limerick Kevin Kiely (FG) said such comments were “atrocious and inexcusableâ€. He confirmed that the city council’s submission would be seeking to take over parts of Co Clare, including Parteen, Meelick and Shannon Banks.
Clare councillors claimed that Mr Gormley, who was educated at St Munchin’s College in Limerick, was biased in favour of the city – a charge the Minister rejected as “completely unfounded†on his first visit to Co Clare since the boundary committee was set up.
Mr Gormley said he would act on the committee’s recommendations. “I am going to listen to what the experts say and I hope that there will be proper consultation with people in the area.â€
Today is the deadline for making submissions to the boundary committee, which is chaired by Denis Brosnan, who also heads the Mid-West Regional Task Force. Its terms of reference include whether to extend the city’s boundary into Clare and Limerick.
Fr Pat Hogan, parish priest of Southill, one of Limerick’s most deprived areas, said “moving lines on the map may not really solve our problems, especially from where I live and workâ€. He added that people living there felt “betrayed†by Limerick City Council.
“Limerick’s bad press has far more to do with management’s neglect of some of the city’s now infamous areas,†he said, “so hopefully in a new structure some new way of exercising authority can be found that is more accountable, more connected to all the citizens.â€
In full agreement with you Dan! (An Taisce) 🙂
It won’t be long now before the mudslinging really gets going.
We need some of the spirit from the early pioneering days of Shannon Development to get the Mid-West region back on track again.
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