Liffey Cable Cars – Pointless Gimmick or….

“If we have beautiful historic quays lining the Liffey I could understand the negative reaction these towers are inciting, but I really don’t get why so many people are horrified by this project to the level they are – except perhaps the old Oirish fear of anything new and unique. We are hardly an innovative or dynamic culture – we are the boiled cabbage eaters, the conservative clods on the fringes of Europe wagging his finger at anything which manifest from outside the pre-determind box we are all so comfortable locking ourselves into. As Joyce said “the centre of paralysis” and all that.”

Well said Cute Panda. The quays as far as I am concerned are the ugliest and most inspirationally devoid area of central Dublin. They are drab bland and should be levelled (apart from notable exceptions) to make way for something befitting a capital city and not that of a provential town. As you say it’s not as if this proposition is going to architecturally churn through beautiful street scapes. I think somewhere like the quays needs all the help it can get. Debates on this forum on the whole, tend to be caried out with the utmost objectivity generally, but ocasionally when something new and inovative is proposed a great many posters seem to revert back to form and play the “Historic skyline card”. There seems to be a strong train of thought predominent in Dublin that if a building predates a certain era then it should be protected at all cost which is ridiculous. And as you say if the surrounding buildings are too low, then build higher ones. In terms of architecture which predates the 20th century -If it’s drap knock it down – it’s it’s not, keep it. Dublin is a city on the similar scale (size) as somewhere like Brussells or Amsterdam and not a “small Irish city” (Somewhere like Cork, Kilkenny or Limerick fit this bill) buildinds and streetscape should reflect it’s urban nature. And central Dublin apart from the quays which look provential fit this role. Apart from levelling the quays and building them up which is my ultimate preference, any suggestion which changes the boring nature of what we currently have should be welcomed.

@Thomond Park wrote:

I totally disagree in relation to the Dublin Quays and would say that between Georges Quay and Merchants Quay with a few notable exceptions that the area has bennefitted from extensive regeneration.

No major decision on the Dublin Quays should be made before the Port Tunnel opens and I very much doubt that even a senile despot like Fiddle Castro would consider such a project for Havana or comparable new World City.

I should have been more specific. I’m talking about west of O’Connell bridge.

@Cute Panda wrote:

I have travelled fairly extensively and Dublin to me looks about as historic as Boston. There is little of the city over 200 years old. Most of the city centre starts around 1880’s onwards when you really look at it as a whole. Apart from a few churches here and there, Dublin does not feel much more overly historic than a lot of cities in the New World and I am talking Quebec, Savannah, Havana etc. Dublin also has a huge amount of late 20th trash buildings. Claiming Dublin is mainly a visually historic city is a bit like claiming that Irish is a living and vibrant language.

What I am pointing at is how it is not a city that can be labelled as being of one time. Its fabric has been built up and replaced over the years, but still shows traces of its past. I was arguing against your belief that only cities that are of some specific historical time period are somehow more important than others.

Your argument about the Irish language makes no sense to me. If I was to make comparisons between Dublin and a language I would not compare it to one that I felt to be dead. That is the very point I am making, Dublin is a living city, not one that is maintained to give the illusion of some specific time period. I am not disputing the construction of this cable car on the grounds that it will impact on older parts of the city, but that it will have a negative impact on the city as a whole.

I really do not see how these towers are anymore horrible than much of the 1960’s kitch which already lines the Liffey. What precisely would these towers visually ruin which has not already been ruined decades ago?

What 1960s kitch are you referring to? For many, it is the 1990s pastiche that is more of a problem.

If we have beautiful historic quays lining the Liffey I could understand the negative reaction these towers are inciting, but I really don’t get why so many people are horrified by this project to the level they are – except perhaps the old Oirish fear of anything new and unique. We are hardly an innovative or dynamic culture – we are the boiled cabbage eaters, the conservative clods on the fringes of Europe wagging his finger at anything which manifest from outside the pre-determind box we are all so comfortable locking ourselves into. As Joyce said “the centre of paralysis” and all that.

What, therefore, is the point of putting up a cable car that will overlook the quays if you dont seem to think they are of any visual or historic value in the first place?

I am not saying I do not respect people’s reasons for being so against the cable car idea, but I am amazed as the explosion of viceral repulsion it has unleashed on this normally well balanced forum. The same hostile reaction to this idea is no different than the residents groups and NIMBYs walking around the construction site of a 5 storey building with “NO SKYSCRAPERS HERE” scrawled on a sheet of cardboard looking and acting hysterical for no reason.

I genuinly don’t think this is NIMBYism. The reason that there is such an explosion against it on this forum is that posters here, who seem to be from all over Ireland and abroad, are thinking of its impact on Dublin as a whole, not simply in terms of their area. That is the difference between this and other projects. It is not an isolated project, it is one that has far reaching consequences for the entire city.

I am sorry, but I honestly have no idea what you saying here. I read it a few times and all I am getting is subjective analysis. You’re rationale in the above paragraph why this would not work in Dublin borders on a form of civic theology rather than a good argument against the cable car idea. You’ll have to do better than that.

Basically what I am saying is that I dont see why something should dominate an entire cityscape of Dublin that is of no real benefit to the city whatsoever. There is obviously some form of subjective analysis involved as it is based on my opinion, as your views are also.

In terms of doing something with the river, as already stated by Thomond Park, it is all dependent on the opening of the Port Tunnel. At that point a better analysis can be made of exactly what would benefit the river area of the city for both citizens and visitors alike.

@Cute Panda wrote:

I can agree with some of your points and see were you are coming from but I think there is a real OIRISH mentality when something like this is announced and there is an instant be-littling simply based on the fact that it has not been done before.

With respect most of those speaking out against this are the same people who ridicule the ingredients of Oirish culture such Temple Bar pubs; City West Hotel; JR style bungalows; plastic paddies; the molly malone statue

@Graham Hickey wrote:

Indeed this project in itself is a real modern OIRISH concept: vulgar, flashy, built for a quick buck by the private sector, and with little consideration for both its wider and longer term environmental impact.

If it’s so beneficial to the city then why isn’t the City Council proposing to build it as a nice little earner for itself?

u hit the nail on the head!…

this is a really stupid idea the way to see a city is to walk around it not pass over the roofs of it.

I fully agree with those opposing this scheme, however not through a sort of “Oirish” kneejerk reaction. Those who oppose the scheme can clearly see the complete compromise of some of the city’s most historic views with prominent support towers- towers which serve a private individual’s business venture as opposed to the public good and facilitate tourists to observe yet simultanously destroy the city’s skyline.

The idea of a cable car system over an almost fully flat city in which it will itself become the most prominent feature just doesn’t work. However, I agree the poll is clearly biased and should be simply yes or no- for a start since it’s a private venture I don’t think anyone should be too concerned about the “waste of money”.

I think its a great idea. Why is the Dublin crying out for such economic structure. Obviously it will boost the tourism sector and how many people can honestly say they would not once try it out?

Nonsense – No one can doubt the importance of tourists to cities these days nor the leisure aspect of the city centre for the citizens of that city but this is nonsense. To erect would be to shoot ourselves in the foot – the intrusion of a private Disneyfied carbuncle of zero utilitarian benefit for the city and defacing the reinvigorated Liffey quays / campshire. No problems with sending it out and about in the docks but not in the historic core – indeed might be quite supportive in the docks area if there was some transport benefit. A gimmic!!!!!!!!!! Shane

@Radioactiveman wrote:

This poll is a little misleading considering there is 3 negative options and just one positive one!

LOL!!! Bang on there Mr Radioactiveman – I think many a politician would be proud of such spin! And the one option in favour of this is in italics!! Comical!!!!

“Apart from levelling the quays and building them up which is my ultimate preference, any suggestion which changes the boring nature of what we currently have should be welcomed”

Well there’s a sustainable proposal if ever there was one….

It is important in this context to point out that in general bad cases do not make good rules. So if there are parts of the quays which are poor, pastiche or 60s calamity, this would not in general be an argument for making the situation worse. Many architects & planners, Frank MacDonald included have campaigned for the reconstruction of the quays in the past decades.

Cute Panda exhibits appalling ignorance on the subject of Dublin, which was conceived & built as the second city of the british empire during the georgian period (pre-1880). It retains a considerable number of setpieces dating prior to the 1880s, Trinity College, Four Courts, Customs House & Bank of Ireland included, not to mention several uniquely large residential squares. Back to school for you I’m afraid. It never ceases to amaze me how confidently some people will talk about things of which they clearly know very little. I’ve been to Boston which I particularly dislike because of the amount of pastiche it includes, it has a far less continuous structure & was never within reach of the standards reached by Dublin at the time it was principally constructed. I have recently visited Montreal which is a great city & I doubt they would allow such a thing in the Vieux Port.

I oppose this in its current form because of the visual impact of the supports primarily. It also seems wasteful to build a structure rather than using the normal methods of becoming airborne, light aircraft, balloons, jet packs, rockets, whatever ! There’s something in the idea, perhaps Docklands/ Dublin Bay …the millenium wheel II, but not this.

I’ll tell you what, lets fill in the liffey with concrete & build a runway…!
Madness.