Leinster House, National Museum & Library complex

Mountjoy anyone:rolleyes:

There were also suggestion in the ’60s – possibly based on the 1922 suggestions, not fully put to bed – to relocate the Dail to the RHK, and to concentrate the functions of the NUI in Leinster House. This was when UCD was still in the Terrace, and the idea of an ‘academic axis’ (I’ve mentioned it here before) between Trinity and UCD via Kildare Street/Merrion Square West was proposed. However, some people had other ideas about the location of UCD and the ‘sphere of influence’ of the other place down the road… and now he has a building named after him in UCD. Philistine.

There was a pamphlet published by a group called Tuairim in the mid-’60s that addressed the issue of the location of UCD- city centre or suburbs. I think that’s where I discovered this proposal.

Staircase to the Dail Chamber, with its manky carpet

really manky carpet

and the chamber itself …

I wouldn’t be quite as harsh as Graham, but agree that the upper reaches generally not visible on camera, need some serious work, the glazing and lighting are dreadful.

and the ‘auld curtain concealing the electronic voting panel doesn’t help either.

The seldom seen panel … installed during 03/04 i think

Even so, there’s something I quite like about the chamber & given the appropriate intervention, it could make a fine home for the lower house.

I think Leinster Lawn would cause uproar…

The college green site has plenty of space inside it for both houses of the oireachtas and more flexibility than you would imagine. Remember; the outside wall is just a screen.

The other reason I like the college green idea so much is it’s historical significance; this was where ireland’s first constitutional freedoms were achieved. Abolishing this assembly, putting a bank into the former house of parliament and enforcing the destruction of the commons chamber was a calculated political insult and the act which more than any other stripped the island of it’s economic independence and precipitated the long 19th century economic decline of dublin.

How better to symbolize an irish or dublin “renaissance” than to return irish democracy to it’s spiritual home? What an inspiration this could be for our politicians; and what a gift to the city 🙂

The building is simply stunning and deserves a more representative purpose..

There is no room at College Green, plain and simple: Leinster Lawn is pure genius provided the new building is sufficiently separated from Leinster House to permit the reopening of Kildare Place and the forecourt and the reuse of Leinster house for cultural purposes.

that voting panel is priceless – like an Atari 2600

Straying a bit OT here but worth a punt nonetheless…..:)
Has anybody a view on the “Siopa” which is now trading at the Kildare St entrance to Leinster House….?

I still have difficulty concealing my Glee?….Exazperation?….Bewilderment?…..in fact I`m unsure of What emotions are stirred deep within me as I struggle to come to terms with the thought processes which resulted in the design,construction and placement of this ediface

I rather think that Bucholz-McAvoy must have struggled to embrace this particular brief as what we have now resembles my garden shed after I have just pulled it apart searching for an important impliment my wife has put away for safe keeping.

The interesting aspect to this yoke is how easy it is to completely miss it as one promenades past in the Autumn sunshine….Its only when one peers through the railings or looks down from the top deck of a passing bus does one see the corner-shop in all its true glory:D

At least Bu-McA incorporated a bit of an oul “Shelter” to keep the meejia dry as they attempt to pry the truth out of some Politician in the manner of wresting the Rifle from Charlton Heston`s cold dead hands….:eek:

Even in today`s Irish Independent article we see how the Shops staffing by persons from the National Rehabilitation Centre has to be referred to in some form of attempt to justify it`s presence.

In the broader context of this topic this Siopa nua really does underline how little these Philistines comprehend of any form of culture,let alone Architecture :rolleyes:

@fergair wrote:

Regarding Leinster House, yes it’s pokey. Ridiculously so. But it’s the home of the parliament of an independent Irish state and I get goosebumps every time I walk past the Kildare St entrance and see the tricolour flying above it. It’s also the indisputable symbol of Irish democracy.

Architecturally,. the Seanad is housed in probably one of the finest legislative chambers in Europe. The room is exquisite, always the highlight for me of the mundane tours of the building. And the Dail chamber is a very handsome one, as another thread here has briefly expounded upon. The upper deck, so to speak, is a bit ould looking but the House of Commons looks very peculiar when you see the galleries above it too.This all being said, the naive little patriot inside me is biased when it comes to rooms as “sacred” as these, perhaps

But give us the Kildare St forecourt back!!! The Museum and Library have had their entrances robbed from them for the last 80years. It always feels like you’re sidling into them when you go in the main doors – and these are two of Dublin finest Victorian buildings that we’re talking about.

I’d tend to agree with you fergair.

I’m not too sure what to make of modern parliament chambers, they generally leave me a little cold.

Aside from the Bundestag’s impressive dome & the thinking behind it, the chamber itself seems to follow a fairly generic format that is almost standard across europe, little to distinguish one from the other in many cases.

The dutch lower house, fairly depressing and also quite typical

Scotland – probably the finest modern parliament chamber to date

I think the heavy tiering in the Dail chamber creates a particular atmosphere (ok ok, when full) – something i’d like to see borrowed by modern interpretations.

In general i’d be loathe to start from scratch & would prefer to see parliament housed in a building that is steeped in our history. The Bank of Ireland is the only altermative for me, the first purpose built parliament house in the world, its not the place for a faceless bank.

Adjoining buildings on Foster Place / Dame Street & Westmoreland could be utilised if additional office space etc. is required. The main issue imo would be the distance from Government Buildings on Merrion St.

Again, no government here would get away with spending the likely 200m+ to relocate, i’ll bet a refurb of Lenister house, which will cost a fair few quid in itself, is all that will ever happen.

With some difficulty! There are no organised public tours – you’ll need to butter up a TD or two (and don’t get me started on the Cabinet corridor of Government Buildings).

As much as the Bank of Ireland is desirable as a location for parliament (incidentally they don’t own it anymore, they flogged it a couple of years ago for something like a piddling €15 million), as has been mentioned there is simply no adequate space for the truly enormous ancillary accommodation required, and makes little sense to move from one compromised historic site to another. Security is the other major consideration, and such an exposed site on all sides would probably render it unsuitable. The latter also has the potential to interfere unduly with the character of the main facade, and you could say goodbye to any attempts to declutter the forecourt and increase public access. Saying all that, the Banking Hall would be an ideal space for the Dáil Chamber – I don’t see any problem in that respect. TDs could also have great fun marching around Pearce’s abulatory corridors West Wing style, with the top lighting and deep shadows catching on blank sheets of vital State documents.

Now this yoke.

As pretty as the chandeliers are with their sparkily candle bulbs (all long since replaced with nasty lumps of plastic CFLs), this area between the house and the Dáil Chamber surely must win the award for the most hideous ceremonial space in the country. When the Victorians did it badly, my god they pulled all the stops out. And then we added to it with the upper floating bridge decks, reinforced concrete columns with faux marble veining, and head wrecking carpets and curtains. Lovely stuff. The stunning 18th century bookcase the only saving grace.

No I agree Peter that the Dáil Chamber is an elegant space, and very well designed at the lower levels (although recent wheelchair provision has compromised the entire ensemble). No expense was spared back in the 1920s. The problem is the investment stopped half way up, resulting in the upper levels having never been fully resolved. They were added to piecemeal with the public gallery roundabout the 1930s and then the Royal Dublin Hotelesque champange-coloured aluminium glazing arrived probably in the 1960s, infilled in a manner that looks like bare wood and sheets of plywood from a distance. All of this needs major work.

The only reason the entrance hall looks so stunning is because the money was attained directly from Europe in anticipation of one of the European Presidencies. This is one of the few areas where real investment has been made (along with the Dáil bar) including the comprehensive Leinster House 2000 project to the north of the house.

The Seanad Chamber is extremely elegant, but overly cramped, and regardless of aesthethics one would have concerns about the affect of such heavy use on the fabric of the building. What level of structural intervention is required to sustain this use into the future? The PVC secondary glazing is similarly unacceptable but is obviously there for a reason associated with the Chamber…

Personally I think both the house and parliament would benefit from the removal of the Oireachtas away from the main house in favour of a new build on the Lawn. I’m in two minds about the Dail Chamber itself however – it’s really of such quality and iconic status to warrant full retention at its present location. The potential for a dramatic contemporary roof structure encasing the historic furnishings however is a concept I find very appealling. This would also serve to highlight the original fittings, a rare example of 1920s furniture design in Ireland, and the last gasp of the classical school and indeed that of large scale mahogany installations on a European level.

@johnglas wrote:

PeterFitz: interesting to see your picture and generous comment on the Scottish Parliament bldg]

I probably should have qualified my comments about the Scottish Chamber – ‘probably the finest modern parliament chamber to date’, its not so hard when all your contemporaries seem to specialise in bland surfaces with lashings of royal blue upholstery :rolleyes: it is a pretty impressive space nonetheless.

Graham is spot on about the tours, its not so easy unfortunately – your best bet is to see if you can tag along with another – i’d email the event desk – eventdesk@oireachtas.ie and play the innocent tourist. More info on:

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/FAQ/document2.htm

@GrahamH wrote:

Personally I think both the house and parliament would benefit from the removal of the Oireachtas away from the main house in favour of a new build on the Lawn. I’m in two minds about the Dail Chamber itself however – it’s really of such quality and iconic status to warrant full retention at its present location. The potential for a dramatic contemporary roof structure encasing the historic furnishings however is a concept I find very appealling. This would also serve to highlight the original fittings, a rare example of 1920s furniture design in Ireland, and the last gasp of the classical school and indeed that of large scale mahogany installations on a European level.

Now I’d settle for that 😉 The upper half is desperately crying out for a complete re design – your contemporary roof suggestion could be stunning.

So perhaps a new home for the Seanad & other facilities in a signature building on Leinster Lawn, while allowing the main house itself to be completely restored, uses for some of its fine refurbished rooms anyone ?

Our Senators would also have to justify their existence before any such investment on a new Seanad was made. They need to be directly elected, at local election time, and the numbers appointed by the government of the day significatnly reduced – basically some chance that they might actually return a bill & be more than a rubber stamping operation.