Irish Glass Bottle Site

@stira wrote:

Reading the article on the glass bottle site, E425 million for the site! and there are calls to allow a maximum of 2 storey offices! how fantastic would it be if there was a new high density high quality centre in Dublin an extension to the city centre, housing a huge amount of people and putting an end to the westward drift/sprawl. It really is ridiculous, the locals complain about traffic, overshadowing etc, the bigger picture should be seen people quality of life is seriously compromised with all the commuting, to a new housing estate with no facilities in the middle of nowhere! They should move the port and come up with a framework for the area, with phased development and a collosal number of apts, shops, recreation etc.

I think the main objection of the locals in fairness is that it’s a former dump and there are issues of stability with high rise. I’d like what you propose as well but McNamara will have to do the necessary works first and that could take a significant amount of time.

http://www.mco.ie/company/documents/irishTimes061102.pdf

this will be a massive development site and there will be absolutely no limits on density and height once the quality of life is there. It’ll be similar to the neighbouring development by Fabrizio which was granted by the Bord earlier in the year. there will be hundreds of apartments and houses, retail, offices, etc. sandymount residents can fck off. There’s a huge park between them and the site and it will really only affect people living in that estate in Ringsend known as Legoland which is opposite the entrance to the site.

i think the port will move eventually and something along the lines of the PD proposal will be built. However transport will be an issue. LUAS won’t be enough. We may have to revisit the DTO strategy to serve Poolbeg if it’s to become a major development area. However, it can be done and we should have a 25-30 year land use and transport strategy for this part of the city.

everything you say stira is true, about the bigger picture. The inner traditional suburbs of Dublin have a lot to learn about traffic issues if they believe squeezing development out to Wexford and Meath will rid them of the problem. The opposite is the case, as has been proven

@stira wrote:

Reading the article on the glass bottle site, E425 million for the site! and there are calls to allow a maximum of 2 storey offices! how fantastic would it be if there was a new high density high quality centre in Dublin an extension to the city centre, housing a huge amount of people and putting an end to the westward drift/sprawl. It really is ridiculous, the locals complain about traffic, overshadowing etc, the bigger picture should be seen people quality of life is seriously compromised with all the commuting, to a new housing estate with no facilities in the middle of nowhere! They should move the port and come up with a framework for the area, with phased development and a collosal number of apts, shops, recreation etc.

Exactly!!! I absolutely think something massive should be done with the site. Its been sold as ‘Dublin’s best development site’, it should be redeveloped with a huge bias towards high-rise. I personally think they should aim for a cluster of towers in the 25-35 storey range coupled with a dozen 12-16 storey shoulder towers and a couple of other 10 storey buildings filling in the rest of the site.

They should also make sure that the area is kept as a proper community with schools, creches, community centres, parks, cinemas and restauraunts all along the foot of the edifices. As well as keeping the area alive after office hours the facilities and amenities at the bottom of the U2 Tower-like buildings I envisage will sort of stick the buildings and streetscape together so they aren’t just floating, alien glass boxes.

And if the neighbours complain of overshadowing, then buy them flood lights so they’ll never have to worry about shadows again!

Thats it exactly
High rise high density and so on…
Hopefully it wont get jacked by the resident associations!
Why is any high rise building in ireland desrcibed as ‘mini manhattan’ ???:)

McNamara’s mini-Manhattan? Maybe . . .

Smashing site: the former Irish Glass Bottle site on 25 acres on the Poolbeg peninsula in Ringsend, Dublin 4, which has sold for a record €412 million

Ringsend Redevelopment: A sports stadium, a blue flag beach, high-rise apartments, or a new city park . . . all of these could be part of the mix at South Wharf – a 25-acre site in Ringsend that has just been sold for €412 million. Bought by developer Bernard McNamara in partnership with the Dublin Docklands Development Authority, the site is on the edge of Dublin 4 and the docklands and is set to become an important new city quarter. We asked the experts for their views on what should or could be built on the site

Dick Gleeson, Dublin City planner
‘The site is part of the Poolbeg framework plan and includes the whole Poolbeg peninsula. When we initially looked at this area it appeared very remote from the city but it is only two miles from the city centre and is highly sustainable in comparison with commuting from places such as Portlaoise. We would favour a model where people don’t use their cars during the week. We are looking at taking a quality bus corridor directly into the city centre and there is the option of taking the Luas into the peninsula.

“We would be looking for a mix of residential and commercial. We’re trying to apply a broad holistic approach to the city, to plan-in good urban qualities. A mix is hugely important but probably in the case of the glass bottle site, residential would be the major part. We’re very focused on making sure that enough contributions come back off those sites in a range of new amenities where the developer also pays for a range of infrastructure.”

Laura Magahy, director, MCO Projects
‘Why not use the site as a Pan-European permanent Expo, representing the best of each of the European Union countries in terms of architecture – selected by competition in each country. Each country is allocated one acre and is invited to propose the best architectural practices from that country and to put forward the best typical uses for the buildings from that country. For example: best French architects, best French restaurants, most interesting French shops, most exciting French artists, etcetera.

“Not only would the development provide something new in terms of mix of use, it would also become an attraction in its own right for Irish people and visitors interested in seeing the best of European building styles, uses and culture – a permanent but changing exhibition to represent the changes taking place in Europe and also in Ireland itself. “The development could be completed by 2010, 10 years into the new millennium.”

Frank McDonald, Irish Times Environment Editor
‘The former Irish Glass Bottle Company’s site is so large that its revedelopment must be seen in terms of creating a new urban quarter in which people can live, work and play. There will have to be a good mix of uses to enliven it day and night, a decent amount of affordable housing and places for kids to play if we are really serious about making it possible for families to live in town.

“One important consideration that must be taken into account into a masterplan for this relatively exposed site is climate change and its potentially disastrous consequences in terms of rising sea levels. At the very least the ground level of the entire site should be raised and perhaps an embankment built around it. It’s not easy to predict what could happen 30 to 50 years hence, but as Sir Nicholas Stern’s review published this week points out, it will be more economic to deal with this threat now than fix it later.”

John Gormley, The Green Party
‘Before we proceed with any high-rise development, we have to put transport in place – I would like to see the area served by the Luas. If you build first and put in infrastructure later, then there is traffic chaos. Let’s get it right from the beginning this time! For local people, we need a good mixed development with a lot of social and affordable housing. The 20 per cent has disappeared in our area and young people are not getting housed.

“High-density development should look after families, so schools, shops, playgrounds have to be part of a good development. The area has great potential, close to the coast. The sewage plant is not working properly and that needs to be fixed.

“We have seen already the Bord Gáis site at Barrow Street causing headaches, sore throats and nausea for the people in the area when they were digging it up. It took constant pressure to ensure decontamination was done properly.”

James Pike, architect, O’Mahony Pike Architects
‘It’s a once and for all opportunity to create a high density urban area, a major new city quarter. If you see 50,000 to 80,000 people moving in there eventually, it’s an awful lot better than them being scattered around the greater Dublin area. In the end the citizens of Sandymount and Ringsend are going to have a better environment potentially than if it was just used for services and infrastructure for Dublin.

“There’s a very good plan for the area by DEGW [urban planners] which sets down certain parameters and the master plan by Anthony Reddy and Partners seems to be a good basic framework. Matters could be reviewed in the light of proposals by the PDs to move Dublin Port further along the coast.

“If that happens the key issue is to see development is maximised on the peninsula although preserving a green fringe is important for the existing residents of Sandymount and Ringsend.”

“If the site is developed to its full potential with mixed-use development as in most of the docklands, there will be a need to improve public transport. The policy for the area is for the occasional tall building rather than a whole forest of them and there will possibly be a scatter of small residential towers.
You don’t need high buildings to achieve a high density; it’s not necessary to create a Manhattan-style development.

“It should have the whole gamut of facilities; educational, recreational and arts as well as top class employment. The contamination of the site is not bad in comparison to some other sites like the former Bord Gáis site in Grand Canal Dock, which was highly polluted. The type of waste on Poolbeg can be capped. Some of the soil will need to be extracted and taken off site, which is very manageable.

“Ringsend is already a substantial area for social and affordable housing so we perhaps need a certain counter to that in the new development, although there will be a social and affordable content.”

Tony Reddy, architect, Anthony Reddy Associates
‘This is a classic brownfield site whose development would ideally be part of the regeneration of the whole Poolbeg peninsula. The glassworks site is the gateway into the peninsula.

“Our master plan for the site envisioned living, working, leisure and educational facilities, with a series of parks. Right now the peninsula is cut off with no decent public transport and an obscure road system. Transport will be the key to unlocking the peninsular.”

Ken MacDonald, Hooke & MacDonald
‘It’s so close to the sea and mature residential areas, the site presents a great opportunity to do something visionary. Buildings of a high architectural merit would be a pre-requisite for the site. There is enough scale to develop exciting buildings. It’s not a tight site, so there is great room for a dramatic expression of good architecture.

A good mix of uses would be desirable there. Obviously a very strong residential presence, with provision for quite a number of different owner-occupier groups, from first- time buyers to retirees. There should be a leisure component and commercial as well. I would say that it could take a bit of height there. It’s so convenient, it’s a dream location. It is just a very exciting prospect.”

Lorna Kelly, planning officer, Sandymount and Merrion Residents Association
‘The site uitable for the type of high density development they are talking about, it is highly contaminated and unstable.

“Any development on it should be light weight and low rise. Sean Moore Road used to be as level as a billiard table but is now up and down because of the water table underneath. Even the Irish Glass Bottle company had trouble. They had a water tower on the site and spent the best part of a year pouring cement down the base because it was leaning as a result of the water table underneath.

“It’s all very well when architects and engineers say the site can be remediated but we don’t know what’s underneath. They are thinking of homogenous waste like on the gasworks site where it was all the same contaminant.

“On Poolbeg no cubic metre is the same. You could have ordinary household refuse right beside chemicals from some industrial company. Dumps are not supposed to be re-opened, you are supposed to leave them for 30 years and after that they are supposed to be controlled.

“Any remediation works would be extraordinarily expensive, so they won’t be providing too much affordable housing because the cost would be prohibitive. It is also a zone of possible flooding, it is reclaimed wetland and the main channel runs straight underneath. In trying to decontaminate this land, they will contaminate the sea.

“It could be used for two-storey offices, anything above that would be too heavy. The ideal scenario would be to re-open a glass factory because we don’t have one in the south. The plan to put a Manhattan- style development there is totally impracticable and uneconomic. The attitude is ‘oh it will be alright’ but they won’t be dealing with the consequences, we will.

Frances Corr, Combined Residents Association (CRA)
‘Wedon’t want to lose the 1three villages’ atmosphere by putting a Manhattan on the corner. The character of Ringsend, Irishtown and Sandymount could be endangered by the development of the Glass Bottle site.

“There’s a need for a supermarket, retail, DIY and perhaps a cinema in the area. Everything I’m looking for, I have to go somewhere off the M50 to find. This would be more in keeping with what people want.

“The site is contaminated and rubbish will have to be taken out and probably put into the proposed incinerator site. And who’s going to pay top dollar to live beside an incinerator? Families won’t take the risk.

“It’s also a flood plain area. Local submissions to the National Plan for The Docklands requested a mixed use of social and affordable housing and they didn’t wish to see high-rise buildings of more than six to eight storeys. There has to be a live, vibrant mix.”

Sean O’Laoire of Murray O’Laoire Architects
‘This is probably one of most extraordinary opportunities in the city in terms of access and location. It doesn’t have any huge constraints and, taking into account transport infrastructure and decontamination, this is an opportunity to create a new district in Dublin docklands.

“It very much has to be a mixed development because it is a new quarter. It also needs to be stitched back into the southern suburbs and into the Docklands, so it needs careful thinking. It needs a dense urban scale along with all the parts that make good city – community facilities and open spaces while remaining essentially very urban.

“While it may mean re-evaluating height and density, I think the debate about height is misplaced. We’re seeing very little evidence of high buildings emerging and on this site we won’t see a Manhattan scale.”

Interviews by Edel Morgan, Kate McMorrow and Emma Cullinan

© The Irish Times

@paul h wrote:

Laura Magahy, director, MCO Projects

Some of you might be interested in tomorrow night’s programme on RTE 1, ‘Raging Bulls’ at 10.15 pm:
@RTE wrote:

Series that lifts the lid on some of the most colourful Irish business stories of recent years. The last part focuses on Dublin businesswoman Laura Magahy

LM has had an… eh… ‘interesting and varied’ career in the cauldron of the Celtic Tiger – Temple Bar Properties, the Digital Hub, etc. I’ll euphemise no more than that.

Docklands Authority Welcomes Planning Scheme Approval for Poolbeg Peninsula

Extensive Public Consultation will be part of the process

The Dublin Docklands Development Authority has welcomed the approval by the Oireachtas Committee on Environment of the preparation of a Planning Scheme for over 100 acres in the Poolbeg Peninsula area.

Following the recent purchase of the Irish Glass Bottle site as part of a consortium with Bernard McNamara, the Docklands Authority now occupies a significant site on the peninsula.

The Dublin Docklands Development Authority Act includes a provision whereby the Docklands Authority can develop a Planning Scheme and extend its Section 25 planning process to appropriate areas covered by the Docklands Master Plan.

Commenting on the new Planning Scheme Paul Maloney, Chief Executive, Docklands Authority said there was an urgent requirement for a co-ordinated approach to development of this uniquely situated area so close to the city centre. “The planning scheme for the Poolbeg Peninsula will create a unique opportunity to develop the area in a way that delivers sustainable mixed use development, while at the same time preserving the natural heritage and developing amenities. We are particularly anxious to maximise potential for social and affordable housing and to provide a family friendly living environment.”

“The planning scheme will indicate the manner in which the area should be developed; and will set out policies in relation to land use; distribution and location of development; infrastructure; the development of amenities and conservation” he said.

The Poolbeg Planning Scheme process will include extensive consultation with residents, community representatives, Dublin City Council, Dublin Port and the landowners and stakeholders in the area. An Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) will be carried out as part of the Planning Scheme and a four week public consultation period will be included as a key element in the process.

Bord Pleanála rejects Ringsend development

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/11172872?view=Eircomnet

An Bord Pleanála has refused permission for a major redevelopment of a site adjacent to the former Irish Glass Bottle factory in Ringsend, Dublin, citing concerns that it would be “premature” due to existing infrastructural problems.

Although it found that the site was “generally suitable” for development of the kind proposed by Fabrizia Developments, it noted a number of concerns.

These included deficiencies in the capacity of the local road network, insufficient public transport and “uncertainties in the funding, design and implementation of the proposed Dodder bridge, approach routes and connections to the site”.

the small roads and roundabout there seem to be nixing everything planned for there, the incinerator too, would ttey not expand the road?

more of a ‘not yet’ than a ‘no’ perhaps …

@lostexpectation wrote:

the small roads and roundabout there seem to be nixing everything planned for there […] would ttey not expand the road?

To serve the site with cars? Hardly the right approach. Far better to expand the public transport options.

Agreed, Peter- the site is pretty good for what was proposed, just not at the moment. The Board got this one spot on.

Let’s just hope the DDDA comes up with the goods on the Planning Scheme front.

@ctesiphon wrote:

To serve the site with cars? Hardly the right approach. Far better to expand the public transport options.

Agreed, Peter- the site is pretty good for what was proposed, just not at the moment. The Board got this one spot on.

Let’s just hope the DDDA comes up with the goods on the Planning Scheme front.

yes pubic transport too, but I think the road needs to be upchanged aswell particularly if you want trucks going to an incinerator

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0202/1232923381496.html