Irelands Ten Worst Roundabouts
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-Donnacha-.
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- January 28, 2004 at 5:07 pm #740211
garethace
ParticipantI still think that 2-lane motorways like the M50 are much worse turkeys, than most roundabouts – because it doesn’t take a lot of money to construct a roudabout. But it costs so much to make a motorway like the M50, and when you consider, it gets more expensive to do, as time goes on… not to add some redundancy for increased traffic is criminal misallocation of time, effort and resources I think.
My only suggestion, is that politians imagined only well off people would actually need to use that motorway. For all the car fans here, Forbes has a list of the Worst cars of all time The current lucky generation of automotive customers has no real understanding of how truly awful a car can be.
My favourite,The Ford Pinto’s (1971-1980) famous safety flaw, of course, was that it was prone to blowing up if rear-ended.
Also, Renault Dauphine, (1956-1958) Folks, we’re talking about taking half a minute to do 0-60 mph.
Or, AMC Pacer, (1975-1980) The Pacer was a dud in terms of quality, execution and particularly styling. Make your own assessment about its bizarre proportions, but don’t miss the one door that’s bigger than the otherJust another thought, sign posts. The Americans can never figure out what a sign means, when it says STOP NOW. In the states, signs only read STOP. When you think about it, stop now doesn’t make much sense. What else would you do supposedly? Wait for a couple of more seconds, and then stop? 🙂
January 28, 2004 at 5:09 pm #740212garethace
ParticipantNull
January 28, 2004 at 6:38 pm #740213Anonymous
InactiveI agree that two lane motorways have a lot do with a lot of the congestion problems particularly on the M50. I find it typical of this country that the Western Parkway as it was then known was built at two lanes, particularly the Westlink bridge.
Wasn’t P Flynn the minister for environment behind the scheme?
As at that time at was abundantly clear that the three lane M25 was a disaster in London and figures were around that proved the futility of trying to build additional lanes vs additional motorways. Refering to the construction of the M40 vs the widening of the M1 on costs grounds.
But what really baffles me is not that corners were cut but that in subsequent years developments such as Quarryvale were sited literally on top of these important national infrastructure nodes.
I really think the NRA deserve about as much respect as their american namesakes.
You heard it hear first
‘fresh water muscles’ in Durrow Co Kilkenny, the NRA heard it year ago, but to quote Fr Dougal McGuire ‘The lights are on but nobodies home Ted’
January 28, 2004 at 6:48 pm #740214garethace
ParticipantHistory of American Highway building
Notice how they link it up with good old ‘Eik’. I heard Patrick Scott saying last night in the documentary, that in the 1930s in Ireland during the economic war with Britain, some people were saying, I wish we had a Mussolini here.
I guess Ireland, in the early parts of the 20th century never had a stage at which, some leader or otherwise charismatic person took matters into their own hands.
We have had many ‘personalities’ for our leaders, we have a ‘kind of personality now’ for a leader, and he does seem to get into the motorway thing a bit. But how many ringforts do you think good old ‘El Duce’ would stop for? 🙂
January 28, 2004 at 6:54 pm #740215Anonymous
InactiveI gaurantee you if Benito arrived on the Late Late he’d charm the pants off ya,
Telling you how the country was building the highest specification possible and they did. The Italians delivered top spec developments unlike our ‘Western Parkway’Flynn was like a jumped up schoolteacher in a really obvious pinstripe suit on the Late Late when last interviewed. I nearly puked, when he started telling us about all the ‘Favours’ he had done us in Brussels.
He made a lot of enemies over during his time in Europe, the Germans used to love us once.
I wonder how much P Flynn’s roundabouts did to piss them off as they are such a motor mad people.
January 28, 2004 at 7:04 pm #740216garethace
ParticipantThat anybody would ever romanticize the days when America moved on rails would have stunned the highway boosters of the first half of the 20th century. In those days, highways meant progress, pure and simple. Railroads and streetcars did not. Both had been built with private capital, and the railroads in particular embodied capitalism at its most rapacious. To the Progressives who came to political power at the turn of the century, highways were the Main Street alternative to Wall Street-dominated rail. And for people who lived in rural areas, paved roads weren’t just an alternative; they were an escape from mud-imposed isolation during the rainy months.
Well if you read that extract above, which related trains to stock exchanges, and highway building to the new progressive people in power – I think that the internet and computing nowadays – is a highway too. One which is driven by consumer demand, and like the early days of the automotive industry, has had more than its fair share of cowboys too. You will notice, that like the automotive industry, the number of players in the computer industry are getting less and less.
But what was interesting was how, the dotcom bust proves, that unlike the old days, with the railroad building analogy for the internet – you cannot ‘corporatise’ the new highways – automotive or otherwise. Places like America have taken ‘the consumer oriented world’ to an extreme, with loads of motorway, loads of cheap web access, loads of mals,… all to do with consumer spending, and in turn keeping their economy booming.
In and around America’s big cities, the legacy of the Interstates is more complicated. When talk of an Interstate system first began in the 1930s, urban areas weren’t really part of the equation. The point was to link cities, not repave them. By the 1950s, though, big-city mayors and merchants were becoming alarmed by the car-enabled outflow of people and commerce to the suburbs. The solution, as they saw it, was to make it easier to get into, out of, and around cities by car. Highway planners listened and redrew their Interstate maps to wrap every big city with superhighways, high cost be damned.
The backlash came remarkably quickly. It’s easy enough to trace in the pages of FORTUNE: Through 1956 the magazine depicted urban superhighways in a positive light. But in 1957 and 1958, as the bulldozers came out in force, a series of articles on “The Exploding Metropolis” called the automobile’s urban role into question, wondering at one point whether the highways needed to get cars downtown might “carve so much space out of the city that little worthwhile will remain.”
The notion that big highways and big cities don’t mix spread. In 1959, San Franciscans staged the “freeway revolt” that halted the building of the Embarcadero Freeway along the city’s waterfront. In the 1960s, successful anti-freeway protests followed in Washington, D.C., New Orleans, New York, Boston, and other cities.
January 28, 2004 at 7:28 pm #740217garethace
ParticipantBut what really baffles me is not that corners were cut but that in subsequent years developments such as Quarryvale were sited literally on top of these important national infrastructure nodes.
I think this extract from the article at Fortune, presents us with a picture of Quarryvale etc, you may or may not like.
Meanwhile, the mass entrance of married women into the workforce in the 1970s and 1980s meant that more Americans had to get to work than ever before. The jobs to which they commuted were increasingly not in old downtowns but in new office centers built next to Interstate exits. And the houses they went home to at the end of the day were in increasingly auto-centric developments located ever farther away from center cities.
That is definitely what has screwed Ireland up so badily – high house prices, multi-car families all working, driving to school, shopping etc. Shopping centres have also become car-centric entertainment venues at nightime too.
Had to add this one:
Then there’s mass transit. Since the 1970s, new subway and streetcar networks have been built in cities across the country—Houston is the latest. But after 50 years of building houses and offices to be convenient for cars, these new systems are of only limited use.
I guess it goes back to Sim City, and all of these great old AI strategy games! 🙂
January 28, 2004 at 7:30 pm #740218FIN
Participantmotor city!
January 28, 2004 at 7:48 pm #740219garethace
ParticipantBut now and for the foreseeable future, most economic activity will happen out along the Interstates. Consider the San Francisco Bay Area during the booming 1990s: Most of the actual “wealth creation” took place south of the city off Interstates 280 and 880 and U.S. 101.
Basically, places like the Raheen Roundabout, and Red Cow Roundabout – are all about progress, economic improvements, commuting multi-car families and a heck of a lot of industrial based workforce. The are symbolic of those times.
January 28, 2004 at 7:58 pm #740220FIN
Participantindeed. this is the type of society that we are striving to be.
January 28, 2004 at 9:18 pm #740221Anonymous
InactiveCitywest is a model of how to develop a cutting edge industrial park. It has multiple exits on therebye dispersing its effect on the existing road network. It also has a flyover so that traffic merges into as opposed to obstructing other traffic in the way that roundabouts do.
I wouldn’t consider the Red Cow roundabout progress on any level,
1. Traffic a disaster
2. Architecturally it is Brooklyn turnpike meets poznan
3. Sustainability it is quite low density (designers excepted)The only thing it has delivered was a quick buck to a few minor developers.
Ideal development patterns would involve Citywest type industrial parks for industry/logistics.
Developing offices in centres such as the docklands, Dunlaoire, Tallaght town centre, Galway City, etc
What doesn’t work is an inadequate road network thats principal junctions are
A. Roundabouts
B. Mostly choked by large scale retail developments.
I am really looking forward to the Gilmartin phase of Mahon Tribunal
January 29, 2004 at 10:12 am #740222Andrew Duffy
ParticipantTwo quickies:
US roundabouts – there are plenty, and there are also loads of a horrible device called a traffic circle that appears designed to cause accidents. Check this out:
http://www.tfhrc.gov/pubrds/fall95/p95a41.htm
You should check out the terrible interchanges that exist between freeways and surface streets in the US as well. Try the single-point urban interchange (scroll down a bit):
http://www.kurumi.com/roads/interchanges/spui.html
… or this take on the most common motorway-motorway interchange in the UK, the three-level stacked roundabout:
http://www.kurumi.com/roads/interchanges/volleyball.html
… and there is of course the most common full interchange in the US (and Germany), the cloverleaf – poor capacity, low speeds and weaving traffic all in one. It’s probably better than this though:
… and any other interchange design with overtaking-lane exits, of which we are getting a few along the M50.
Italian autostrade – these are not world-class; they have extremely narrow lanes, no hard shoulders and poor interchanges. When combined with Italian driving, they are amongst the most intimidating roads you’ll ever encounter. In fact, people who have experience of excellent British or American motorways and dismiss ours as pathetic may be surprised by the poor quality of much of Europe’s network.
January 29, 2004 at 10:56 am #740223FIN
Participantcan u imagine the fun of trying to explain how to drive those to pat-joe from the bog? 😀
traffic lights on roundabouts give them enough trouble….
well what do u think…roundabouts or fly-overs?i am sick or these 2 lane motorways..i think they are stupid but i must admit…the bypassing of towns with just 1 lane…genius…and on the routes of major proposed motorways…. what were they thinking. i can only judge the gal/dub road..even though i have traveled a bit on the dub/cork. the bypass of some little shit town in kildare was just 1 lane and now the loughrea bypass is 1 as well. i thought it was going to be a motorway connecting the major cities…why waste money on these little crap things and just spend it on a proper motorway???? i can’t understand this. oh! and there is going to be about 4/5 roundabouts on the loughres bypass….i don’t know why so many are needed:(
January 29, 2004 at 11:07 am #740224Anonymous
InactiveI could half understand a temporary bypass of Kinnegad but a no-margin bypass of Loughrea sounds like a disaster.
It ensures that the prefered motorway route is used on what would in reality be a temporary solution.
I think the 4-5 roundabouts are for planting flowerbeds for your tidytowns entry.
January 29, 2004 at 11:15 am #740225FIN
Participantnot ym town thankfully…but if they do then nobody will see the town…hmmm! not a bad idea!!
January 29, 2004 at 2:45 pm #740226kefu
ParticipantAt least we’ve never done this:
And most development of the past 50 years isn’t dense enough to support mass transit—even when it is, the failure of newer suburbs to build sidewalks has made it unpleasant or impossible for many Americans to walk short distances to schools, stores, bus stops, and train stations. (This, coupled with the rise of fast-food chains, may be where the Interstate system and the nation’s obesity epidemic intersect.)
January 29, 2004 at 5:34 pm #740227Anonymous
InactiveOriginally posted by phil
The outskirts of Limerick City seems to be Roundabout Land. There seems to be millions of them!Try Mullingar. Roundabouts everywhere, they must be Westmeath Co Council’s answer to everything.:(
January 29, 2004 at 5:41 pm #740228FIN
Participantwhen in doubt stick in a roundabout!
jeez, i’m a poet … that should have been my calling!!!!!
January 29, 2004 at 5:41 pm #740229Anonymous
InactiveTop ten Roundabout towns & Cities:
1. Portlaoise
2. Mullingar
3. Limerick
4. Killarney
5. GalwayAny other suggestions?
January 29, 2004 at 5:46 pm #740230FIN
Participantdo the little tits on the road count?
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