interesting….. [ Calatrava ]

DUBLIN CORPORATION PRESS RELEASE – 27th January, 1999
Design of Blackhall Place & Macken Street Bridges. Appointment of Santiago Calatrava Valls

The General Purposes Committee of the City Council was advised Monday, 25/1/99 on the design of the bridge to be built at Blackhall Place and also to the current proposal for a bridge at Macken Street. The Blackhall Place Bridge is situated at the western end of the North King Street Scheme and is currently with the Minister for the Environment and Local Government for approval. The proposed Macken Street Bridge is in the Draft Dublin City Development Plan 1998.

The design requirement for these bridges should not be merely for further functional additions to the City’s infrastructure, but should also enhance the Civic Amenities of the City, in terms of design and visual impact.

Santiago Calatrava Valls (regarded as the pre-eminent bridge designer in the World) was approached and he agreed to take on the commission.

Dr. Caltrava is a keen Joycean Scholar, and currently lives in the house in Zurich occupied by James Joyce, when Joyce lived in that City.

The southern end of the Blackhall Place Bridge will be located on Ushers Island, which is the setting of Joyce’s most famous short story “The Dead”. The City Manager has appointed Dr. Calatrava to undertake the Architectural and Engineering Design for both bridges. As Dr. Calatrava’s practice is conducted from offices on mainland Europe, he will be operating closely here in Dublin with locally – based consulting engineers, who will be making a significant contribution to the overall project realisation.

where did you get the image?

Its in to-days Independant

Does anyone else think that this looks just the tiniest bit oversized?

Yep,

I must agree [ though it is only a mock-up ]
It looks slightly ridiculous. Perhaps the framework should be finer?

I can imagine it now in the guide books. Come see the spectacular new Liffey Bridge {pictured here }bringing Ireland into the 21st century – or some tripe like that.

“Gee honey – it looks like the coathanger bridge in Sydney – let’s go see!.”

They see it…

“What the hell? Call that a bridge? It’s tiny.”

Actually, come to think of it – finer frameway would lessen the bulkiness at the expense of substantality [a word? ] but would perhaps only increase the illusion of hugeness in photos.

I don’t know – who the hell needs it anyway?

John

If this photo impression is accurate, we are in for it bigtime! This design is totally out of place at this extremely narrow stretch of the Liffey. Its height looks set to obscure quayside views up or downriver. Such an intrusive design should never have been proposed, in my opinion. Surely we can a have modern design that is also in proportion with the site?

Alas, this whole thing symbolises the idiocy of the city planners who have already destroyed big chunks of what was once a gracious and attractive city.

I thinlk there’s currently a way of thinking that “if Barcelona / Paris / other leading european cities have then why shouldn’t we” and this is despite the fact that as a very compact city [compact in that the original city centre is very small] the scale of these developments do not suit the city… – this also applies to Georges Quay, Spencer Dock and now this bridge. The new footbridge between the Ha’penny Bridge and Essex bridge is much more suitable.

I agree with those who feel Calatrava is only commissioned to build a bridge in Dublin because of international city rivalry.

Calatrava virtually reinvented bridge design a decade or more ago, but since then he has seemed unable to move his ideas forward: esentially, all Calatrava bridges are now the same.

Nor does having one guarantee a city international renown anyway. He has done one in Manchester that is comprehensively overlooked.

Now that Dublin is calling in SOM and Kevin Roche and Calatrava, it can be only a matter of time before you get Norman Foster, Richard Meier and Frank Gehry – also fixtures on the international circuit. At this rate, everywhere will end up the same as everywhere else.

is this going ahead?

How come we’re not looking at other peoples mistakes. Dublin 2050 will be dittoed from any itinerary if we allow all thes mistakes which are obviously making misplaced or deceiving government officials very rich!!
Sydney bridge Dublin sounds appealing!!…Not.

any further news on this

Wanted to mention that there have been at least two small pedestrian bridges built in Toronto within the last few years that may interest you. Both are of high design quality and I think that one was designed by Calatrava.
The first bridge did have a high arcing “top chord” that was finely articulated and in fact does not look overpowering. The most recent (still being designed) also has a high arcing element, although it is singular and the walkway is somehow cantilevered from it.
While neither is in an intense urban “place”, they are both finely crafted and suitable.
Sorry, I have no way of sending photos.

looks like its going ahead….

‘Golden Gate’ bridge gets go-ahead
The Irish Independent

Dublin is set to get its own mini-Golden Gate bridge across the Liffey as part of a major new road improvement scheme on the city’s north quays, Taoiseach Bertie Ahern announced last night. Only days after the pedestrian Millennium Bridge was opened, he gave the go-ahead for the new 2.8m project to be built at the junction of Blackhall Place linking Ellis Quay in the north to Usher’s Island on the southside of the river. The scheme is designed by Spanish architect Dr Santiago Calatrva and maximises off-site fabrication, reducing problems at the site.
http://www.independent.ie/1999/355/d09i.shtml

My problem with the Macken Street bridge is that it seems to close off river access for large hoats / small ships. They keep closing off more and more of the river.

Larger image at http://www.dublincorp.ie/pics/guild.jpg

But the bridge is designed to swing open – which I believe would be a sight to behold.

didnt know that……..

However is’nt the proposed Macken St. bridge a beautiful piece of work, and the concept of a swivel arm to open and close marvellous. Looking at the picture of it reminds one of a huge horizontal harp. How appropriate and emblamatically Irish.I trust no Irish designer could have done better. Pity about the surroundings though regarding both bridges………. crappy Irish designed buildings,typically bland and boring,having no flair or style, ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

…….to add, looking at the image again is’nt the skyline dramatically boring.The absence of variety among the buildings, grossly minimal, all the same height, same style….. Zzzzzzzzzzz. A bit of height to the buildings would have made a better impact.(A few John Portman towers!) The DDDA have got it wrong here…..too bad, a missed opportunity.

Ah yeah….The Macken St. bridge looks like a big harp ,the ‘Spike’ resembles an ogham stone and the Spencer Dock NCC looks like New Grange.Come to think of it the Waterfront in Belfast would be a better comparison ie (cylindrical)……..reverberating nuances……maybe you are right.

Does everyone seem to think that such proposed projects by foreign architects are alien to ‘our’ city of Dublin therefore should not be built….(when in fact our capital city was established and built by every foreigner who graced our shores……us Irish merely tried to destroy it in every possible way….subliminally and physically with the most credit of course to the ‘Non Urban Minded Culchies’ over the years ,ie TD’s,Planners,Achitects,etc….hence at one stage the capital city of Ireland resembled one huge paddock with almost half the stock of buildings of the city levelled. Too true! Ease Up Critics!

I think both bridges should be build and are very well designed. Enough xenophobia about foreign architects/architecture.

Rory W

Thank god there are people with a bit of optimistic vision regarding the future development of Dublin. Here’s to Calatrava & Co and ‘signature’ architectural landmarks for the city. (The demolishion balls have swung for far too long constantly subtracting and ebbing away what any significant features the city may have had).

I would love to see a Calatrava bridge but I would certainly like to see him do something different, I mean what is the point in having yet another of those monumental bridges when the best are in Seville and Barcelona.

It is the same issue as many other interventions by foreign architects, it does not relate to the place…. It is a very small span and it should be designed as to appear as light as possible in every sense. Think about the volume of the whole thing in the middle of the liffey, its enormous!
On the other hand I don’t think having a bridge designed by Calatrava just because it’s the biggest name when it comes to big structures, is enough to justify it.

I would have one question:

Should we also have a museum designed by Ghery ????

I think the bridge in Macken Street is a fine bridge in every sense and it will be great for the new docklands area. Even if its not an original bridge (ie, a typical Calatrava)

But the one at Blackhall Place is a monstruosity for the setting. Don’t get me wrong it is a lovely bridge there, it isn’t.

There are some points mentioned which have some weight regarding the Blackhall Place bridge but as Bonzo said already the surrounding environs are extremely wanting and add nothing to the bridge.Just look at the photo. It’s more or less improving and upgrading the surrounding areas to suit the bridge rather than the other way around. If Dr.Calatrava was to use the latter as a starting point we’d have yet another insignificant forgetful bridge.

The river is too narrow for the Backhall Place bridge deaign at that point, but the Macken Street bridge was be a welcome addition to Dublin.

All this xenophobic talk of foreign architects not understanding and being good for the city is worrying, because it shows a complete lack of understanding of the city and its history by those natives making the comments.

Gandon and Chambers were English, Cassells was German, I think…. Italian plasterers, etc. The list is endless. Please stop speaking nonsense.

….. (just to name a few) they being the ‘Norsemen’- who gave us Woodquay and it’s fantastic artifacts as a reminder, the ‘Normans’- who gave us the origins of Christchurch, Dublin Castle,the walls of Dublin and society and commerce within etc…., ‘the English’ – Trinity College, Georgian Dublin, ie Parliament Buildings(now Bank of Ireland),The Custom House,The Four Courts etc……All these symbols of the former hated foreigner/invader but now the ‘treasures’ of us Irish today.
The funny thing about it is that us Irish have’nt contributed a major single building of international architectural merit or significance since we have gained our independence.Too busy at one time destroying the city.(Plonking an office block with government associations in the middle of the ‘Georgian mile’, filling Europes largest archaeological urban site with concrete.. all this by people who now proports to be protectors of the city but who’s ‘urban mindedness’ is truly flawed and ill informed.

It seems that neither of these bridges will be built, as well as the revelopment of O’Connell Street, as well as the Monument of Light, as well as the conference centre,as well as the LUAS etc….Too many objections, I’m afraid. Local people concerns seem far more important than the greater needs of the city. Traffic flow, overshadowing, obtrusive views, the cat,the dog,the canary……every possible excuse has been used to object to such proposals.I remember in the eighties they proposed to build a prison (Wheatfield Prison) close to where I lived. Naturally the local people objected ….but they still went ahead and built it. However the prison is there now serving the needs and you would’nt really pay it much attention.It has become part of the landscape. Now that the exchequer has substantial cash to spend we have not added one edifice or landmark of significance to the city.It seems Mr.Joe Soap has more say about what goes where than any architect/planner who genuinely wishes to improve the city for the greater benefit of all it’s people.(The successor to Frank Feely, city manager John Fitzgerald must be frustrated indeed) Insignificant red brick two storey houses is the norm. Safe and unchallenging to ill- educated Mr.Joe Soap.
If Temple Bar was proposed now it would never get off the ground and really it’s only a good example of reparation infill. Mr. Joe Soap and Tony Gregory would be objecting to the removal of the dereliction which ‘holds so much memories and sentiment’for the locals.Only that the chimney had already existed in Smithfield we would not have today the observation tower that is there now.If it had been propsed afresh it would almost have been objected outright. Listening to such fools will eventually cost the city dearly and Dublin will lose out once more…… What a mediocre city we are making! (Too add, when Europe needed its cities it built it’s cities and filled them with wonderous architectural jewels.When it needed it’s roads it built it’s roads,carving through the Alps creating it’s motorways and developing it’s infrastructure,no dithering …..job done! People should realise that we in Ireland are really coming out of the stoneage when held in comparison to our neighbours and such trappings are the mark of civilization.The Greeks,the Romans the Renaissance have all come and gone….Please Mr.Joe Soap and Mr.Bogger will you ever cop on.)

Never has a truer word been spoken on this site. Why do we put up with “safe” architecture. The stuff thats built these days is RUBBISH RUBBISH RUBBISH. To hell with Tony Gregory, the man is a tosspot when it comes to architecture, if he had his way Dublin would be one huge housing estate made up of similar 3 bed semi detached socal housing all pinko nonsense. Yes he has done good for social issues in this city but he should put up and shut up when it comes to architecture in this town. Every bastard comes out of the woodwork in this country to object to bloody everything that is proposed not only the NIMBYs of this world, but those who are looking for some financial return. Why cant we force these changes through – thisngs like LUAS really piss me off – something that will civilise the city and cut down on traffic congestion and EVERYONE starts objecting to it. ITS ENVIRONMENTALY SOUND. But no it wont be built properly because our CORRUPT government and ALL the useless bastards in the Dail get driven into work in Mercs and pander to the likes of the SIMI and AA road lobby (putting cars before people). Fianna Fail, Fianna Gael, Labour, PD, whatever they are all usless when it comes to dealingg with the problems in this town. Although I despise him, I think what Dublin needs is a Jackie Healy-Rae of our own, who could force government action in the city.

Thus ends my rant of the day

Rory W