Interconnector aka DART underground
- This topic has 454 replies, 57 voices, and was last updated 15 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
@PVC King wrote:
The IC will be built, main thing is cracking on with the oral hearing and getting consent and doing the CPO’s at the market floor
Luckily the IC will not be built for some time if ever. An IC is needed but not the IC in the Rail Order please.
I understood this forum to be about Architecture. How about discussing that awful Rail Order produced by CIE/IE.
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street … approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????
They are building PU in the wrong place … and worse still it is the main Interchange station for the majority of our current DART users. There is no way ABP should pass this abomination. CIE/IE need to be sent back to the drawing board … no hurry … they have 4 years to get it right.As regards the adverse effects on Rail Users I prefer to answer PVC King’s propaganda in a Rail Users forum.
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street … approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????
I suggest you go to http://maps.google.com/ and type in Erne Street Dublin 2 Ireland, it is 150m from the eastern end of the platform and 300m from the front door of Pearse Station ; if the average person walks at 4 miles per hous that is 6,400m per hour; the walk would be somewhere between 2 mins and 3 mins and 3 30 seconds. Take comparable London interchanges
1. Bond Street – Central to Jubilee c300m
2. Bank – Central to Northern c600m
3. Green Park – Picadilly to Jubilee c800mDo not get me started on Paris which can be a complete nightmare……
paris was a pain in the…
but that was before GPS…
Now there is no excuse…Should all bankers be paid the minimum wage? or is the financial services union the “biggest”
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1206/1224284846631.html
I understood this forum to be about Architecture. How about discussing that awful Rail Order produced by CIE/IE.
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street … approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????If you’re going to spread bollox propaganda with your entirely warped perspective on distance & time, do it elsewhere.
@PVC King wrote:
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street … approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????
I suggest you go to http://maps.google.com/ and type in Erne Street Dublin 2 Ireland, it is 150m from the eastern end of the platform and 300m from the front door of Pearse Station ; if the average person walks at 4 miles per hous that is 6,400m per hour; the walk would be somewhere between 2 mins and 3 mins and 3 30 seconds. .
I make the mainline Station 240m long and another 200m east from there + 10m above ground level +40m deep for the DART Underground line which runs North South over Erne Street.
440m + 60m uphill and we still have not allowed for the route not being in a straight line or if I arrive at either end of the DART carriages (174m long).
Thanks a lot, but I would rather walk that 1Km equivalent on the flat.Factor in I am carrying a computer and a brief case and the dxxx station is jam packed, and i would have to do all that because the DART Underground cannot get it right.
If any part of you has a bit of Architecture in you, and you do not work for CIE/IE then you too would question the design. It is a stupid design.
@Peter Fitz wrote:
If you’re going to spread bollox propaganda with your entirely warped perspective on distance & time, do it elsewhere.
It is not difficult to figure who works for CIE/IE who’s arrogant attitude is plain for all to see. The propaganda dear Peter is all yours, but you will not fool anybody in here. You didn’t even bother to measure for yourself. I offered a URL to the DU RO site if needed but you didnt even bother. How pathetic!!!
The legitimate question still remains, WHO CAN SUGGEST A FIX? … Not Peter F obviously.
@PVC King wrote:
Who has a solution to Pearce Underground (PU) being built under Erne Street … approx 1Km underground walk to mainline Pearce????
I suggest you go to http://maps.google.com/ and type in Erne Street Dublin 2 Ireland
1. Bond Street – Central to Jubilee c300m
.Things only get worse. I thought PU platforms would be over Erne Street but now I find that the DU Pearse platforms are south from Erne Street over Fenian St(another possible 174 Meters).
I can understand the London underground 300m, as their setup is quite complicated, and the Jubilee was late into the mix, but the draft DU Rail Order is for only one underground route at Pearse and CIE/IE cannot get that right.Even if you make your own measurements (mine were from DU-ST_105_A-B_01.PDF of the Rail Order, a bit rough as there is no direct scale, only a ratio), PU is not under Pearse mainline, is it?? So CIE miss by 100s of Metres?? That cannot be right in your opinion, can it?
Escalators are not lift shafts; if the tunnel is 60m down then the minimum distance is 60m on the basis of a 50% gradient but it is more likely to be 60:40% or 70:30%; anything less than 300m is well within International norms. From citing a mile walk when the distance is less than one eighth of that distance I suspect you don’t have a point……
PU is not under Pearse mainline, is it?? So CIE miss by 100s of Metres?? That cannot be right in your opinion, can it?
I can see this is a complete waste of my time … unless you pluck up the courage to answer the question above.
The indoctrinated can never see the truth. Even my 7 yr old laughed when I showed the .PDF figure, an Architectural joke … LOL
The PDF is DU-ST_105_A-B_01.PDF for those architects who want to see the joke.100m is in comparison to International examples a very small distance; as you fail to understand passengers are not lemmings they do not travel vertically down.
Please look at the Railway Order diagrams so others do not have to put up with your lack of knowledge (I hope it is not a deliberate subterfuge tho’ I suspect so). Unfortunately this site will not let me post the diagrams. Where on earth did you get 100M? and you sir are the one following the CIE Pied Piper.
The escalator from DU is at right angles to the direction to Pearce Main line and is no help distance wise. You should have seen that instead of time wasting.
That is why I quoted “a little escalator time”. From there the walk is across a ticket hall and up a slope to the escalator to the mainline platform . As I said the walk is equivalent to 1Km (not 1 mile) on the flat, and for the normal unencumbered person will take at least 15 minutes.
It is outrageous, considering this is a new underground at the design stage that this Architectural blunder (as proposed) is being foisted upon current DART users, not to mention years of future users, and you are wrong sir to try to justify the blunder. It makes me question your motives, and rightly so.
To miss by over 300M in design is unpardonable for a main interchange station (the Heuston DU is directly under as is the St Stephen’s Green Metro (a little offset)).
Please remember you are on a site for architectural discussion where “fixes” should be discussed and not meek resignation towards blunders. It is like accepting CIE putting the loo at the bottom of the garden, and you justifying same.http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/DartUnderGround/7BProposedStationatPearse.pdf
The distance is 200m which is by International standards short, you do not have a point.
The new Sandwith Street station entrance looks attractive but the site may have accomodated a lot more
@PVC King wrote:
The distance is 200m which is by International standards short, you do not have a point.
The new Sandwith Street station entrance looks attractive but the site may have accomodated a lot more
Trying to change the discussion is an old unacceptable trick.
http://www.dartundergroundrailwayorder.ie/railway-works-drawings/area-105-merrion-square-to-river-liffey/
here you will find the most up to date diagrams.You highlight matters which are worse for the DU Pearse design ….
the DU escalators can be seen to be 45% approx in direction away from the Pearse Mainline, making my morning travel even longer.
Now sir I am of the opinion that you are a member of that awful design team !!! otherwise, why would you try to condone this Architectural blunder which is far from any International Architectural Standard.
Maybe a railway operator like CIE might accept this kind of blunder but not surely any architect or rail user.In one way PVC King does us a service in highlighting the CIE attitude to its users.
@cagey wrote:
Please look at the Railway Order diagrams
Sorry PVC King you are obviously not part of the design team, otherwise you would have know the diagrams you posted are way out of date. The alignment of DU is under the proposed Sandwich Street entrance which is under 1/2 way up Fenian Street.
DU-ST 105 A-B 02 (PEARSE STATION – STREET LEVEL PLAN IN CONTEXT) is from the Railway order and confirms the locations outlined in the three links posted above. The distance is 200m and well within International norms. You are making no point and have obviously never used a system based on interchange. I’m sure if you speak to your local Fianna Fail TD he’ll promise you a direct door to door limo if you vote for him…..
Please stop the BS. You really are very annoying because you cannot or will not read the diagrams properly.
http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf/DartUnderGround/7BProposedStationatPearse.pdf
is wrong, wrong, wrong.
As I saidThe alignment of DU is under the proposed Sandwich Street entrance and is under 1/2 way up Fenian Street.
You are wrong about Interchange and I … I spent 5 yrs using a very bad interchange, as I had no choice (A La DU RO).
Have you noticed the way up to Pearse mainline from DU is opposite the New Entrance from Pearse Street and not at the southern end of Pearse Mainline station. I bet you deliberately ignored that or didn’t even look.
I have come to the conclusion you are hopelessly indoctrinated, and are still pretending the loo at the bottom of the garden is a good alignment.
Have you any idea of the engineering challenges of building a new underground station and keeping an existing station open for service?
The Sandwith street site is a good choice for the following reasons
1. The existing station is pretty much fully developed given the new DU faculty and earlier Wintergarden flat complex.
2. Much of the passenger traffic using Pearse are office workers who commute to places like Fitzwilliam Sq, Lower Mount St and Baggot St who will have a shorter walk than at present.
3. The site exists in a single plot to create a decent entrance reducing CPO costs.Just get the following into your head; the average person walks at 4 miles or 6,400m per hour; the walk on this interchange will be 200m or less than 2 mins; users of the Northern line DART service will have a better choice of stations than at present. This project is necessary and will happen…..
Finally you admit that Pearse DU is as proposed in order to suit CIE.
As regards your (2) above… the proposed Merrion DU entrance has been cancelled from the RO … so much for what CIE think of your (2) people.So what’s wrong with trying to get a “FIX” in here? Is this not the correct forum?
like move the Mainline Platform stopping position east + new escalators from farther up the platform down to Westland Row street level????? Simple huh ??? … move the house to the loo … LOL
At the moment I think the Maynooth train would stop at the west end of mainline Pearse, the farthest from the proposed Pearse DU.I agree with DU .. it should be built … but not Pearse as proposed in the DU RO, and I am not the only one (understatement) who thinks CIE are building the loo at the bottom of the garden.
If it will further help PVC King I will get the official 3 distances from CIE sources and will post them here honestly.
(a) From northern end of DU to the entrance up into Pearse (opposite proposed new Pearse Entrance).
(b) From Fenian St end of DU platform to Westland Row end of Pearse mainline.
(c) From midway of DU to midway of Pearse mainline.
The above will take a few days.After that I expect Pearse DU to be discussed. I would like new ideas.
Finally you admit that Pearse DU is as proposed in order to suit CIE.
You need insert the words existing passengers to the end of your sentance; it is designed in a manner to keep the existing station open.
the proposed Merrion DU entrance has been cancelled from the RO
Never a runner the IGS would have gone nuts; and rightly so.
I am not the only one (understatement) who thinks CIE are building the loo at the bottom of the garden.
It would appear you are
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
