Heneghan Peng win Carlisle Pier
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Thanks for that Pragmatist. It still looks like they need to do alot of work to decide on the way in which the park will be linked to the scheme.
Thanks again
Phil
this decision isn’t going down too well with the public judging from letters to the times. Getting Leaflets from some some PD wannabe councillor saying its a disgrace as is the rezoning of Dun Laoghaire golf course, propably plays well with the locals.
All the same yer man Daniel Libeskind’s (or however ya spell it) design seemed more interesting, sexy, dramatic etc.
I think you hit the nail on the head there Anto. The thing is that this is the result of a culmination of factors. I think that the Carlisle Pier decision will feel the brunt of alot of peoples frustrations over issues such as the golf course rezoneing (to name one). I am not saying that there is any link, I am just saying that in the eyes of people in the area this will be the ‘straw that breaks the camels back’. The fact that they are separate issues will not matter to most people. People are getting very frustrated in the area because that is where they live, and that is where they care about.
Lots of councillors and would-be councillors will seek to make political capital from this issue – that is after all what they do….
Forgetting about who won or lost the competition for a minute, I am struggling to see where any ‘issue’ arises with regard to the redevelopment of the pier – it seems like a no-brainer…..but let me try to articulate my arguments in favour of redevelopment again.
Rezoning is happening in DLR because there is a housing shortage – its the worst county in Ireland with regard to providing homes for its population. This is mainly due to NIMBY-ism. Even if the apartments in the Carlisle pier scheme and DLR golf club are too expensive for many people, the respective developers will have to contribute (either on the sites themselves or elsewhere in DLR co. co.) a significant amount of social/affordable housing. No development in DLR means no new social/affordable housing because you can be sure that the council will not provide it on their own.
The current pier is not open space – its a hoarded-up derelict eyesore of a shed. There will be no reduction in public access but instead we will see an opening of the pier as a public amenity. It appears to me that people want public access along the pier but cant seem to countenance anyone making a profit for providing this access. There would appear to be a fine line between some peoples civic ideals and downright begrudgery
The winning design went through a rigourous architectural and commercial selection process (as opposed to a lot of the rubbish currently getting planning permission). The scheme is bound to go to an Bord Pleanala (as all major developments do) so the public will get the chance to examine the issue in all the detail it can stomach.
The DLR (and Greater Dublin) community gets a highly significant National Marine Life Centre, as well as a new public space and a landmark building all of which lead to commercial benefit for the whole community (Tourism, Jobs etc)
Finally, the same people giving out about the traffic generated by new schemes in Dun Laoghaire are probably the very ones who rightly lobbied for increased development densities to be allowed beside transport nodes. The Carlisle pier is beside a dart station for gods sake…
If this is “the straw that broke the camels back” then the camel would appear to be a very sensitive creature indeed….
regards
I do like where you are going with this argument, it raises the right issues about this competition in general I think. The presentations that I saw at the exhibition in Dun Laoghaire, had an awful lot to do with the issue of parking for sure…
A good quote from this article about Toronto… http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1080774614038&call_pageid=970599109774&col=Columnist969907619189
“These should be the primary focus for mixed-use intensification, because they are the subway routes. The city’s still thinking about this, but so far our land-use patterns and transit planning aren’t in sync. The two must be more closely connected.
I mean, it could be well argued that Carlisle pier is practically on a Dart route etc…. from the amenity, museum function point of view… that would mean a lot of people could access Carlisle pier with families at weekends without having to bring out the car.
In his competition presentation I think, this Carlisle Pier project, was thought of ‘as a big project’ by Daniel Libeskind and that is why he proposed this two layers of underground, sub-plaza car parking in his competition entry I think.
That’s fine for larger projects, when excavating underground garages makes economic sense, but not for smaller buildings of, say, three to six storeys.
While SOM went the more, New York high price of real estate route and submitted a plan to ‘stack’ the car parking within the volume of their very large ‘stena-ferry’ like building whale-form.
In New York, where real estate is too expensive to be wasted on parking lots, you find stacked parking, which allows one spot to accommodate two or three cars.
You have to look carefully a nearby examples too I think, like the Stillorgan ‘Town Centre’ or shopping centre or whatever you wish to call it… and how it has decided to handle car parking and car traffic in general…. it is one of the few places I know myself, where if the ‘green man’ comes on, the car just keep driving past, irregardless of old ladies and gentlemen attempting to cross the road.
I really wonder what Stillorgan house wifes would say, if they were asked to put their cars, into stacked car parking systems! 🙂 Which is effectively what SOM scheme proposed for their scheme only a couple of miles down the road in a place called Dun Laoghaire.
Brian O’ Hanlon.
Pragmatist, the reason I was mentioning the re-zoning issue is that recently the area in which I live in Dun Laoghaire was zoned from Residential to Major Town Centre. This makes little sense because, as you pointed out, there is a shortage of residentially zoned land within the county. I am not saying I am against the redevelopment of the Pier. I am merely trying to understand the worries that people who live in the area would have about it.
well it makes sense for Dun Laoghaire to be a Major town Centre coz it is a Major Town Centre!! Anyway can’t it be both, where’s the conflict in developing the pier and it being a residential area? Are all resedential areas suppossed to be sleepy places where nothing happens??
Anto, that is a fair point in most cases, but it this situation it is offices only that are moving in instead of a mix of uses. The area is becoming dead after about 5 in the evening. It would seem that yes they can be both, but if we look at somwhere like Merrion Square and its surrounding area, it does not seem to happen that way. As I also said, in this situation it does not make sense considering the shortage of residentially zoned land within Dun Laoghaire.
Phil,
Yeah I agree Dun Laoghaire can be dead in the evening although the pier and the seafront is quiet popular of a summer evening. Dun Laoghairre has a few problems, most of the South side middle class types prefer to do their socialising in places like Blackrock or Dalkey. Dun Laoghaire seems to have this reputation of being a bit rough, (read working class types)
Also Dun Laoghaire and surrounding area is old. Maybe the rezoning of the Golf course will change this. Its understandable that people are worried about traffic but I mean this is a site that isn’t far (about amile?) froma town centre with all the amenities.
I see Eamon Ryan (Green party) was on Prime Time Last night telling us we are building houses in thye wroing places, futher and further away from where we nedd them. But, hello, why are the Green party oppossed to the rezoning of the Golf course when it meets most of his criteria?
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