guinness barges making a come-back?

I dont like this idea. That pontoon is huge and far too close to the Hapenny Bridge. I also don’t like the idea of being so close to the Liffey given the noxious smell, and being able to see the floating debris up so close.

I like the idea of putting the barges back in service, but the pontoon? And cobbled? I can hear the lawyers preparing their claims as we speak.

What is it with these ‘initiatives’ and their inability to leave the Liffey well enough alone? We already have a perfectly good boardwalk on which to sit and refresh, so why do we need level 2?

@PTB wrote:

the noxious smell

The river hasn’t regularly smelled bad in the city centre for years – you have to get up to Heuston station for the water level to be low enough to smell the weeds. It doesn’t look too pretty though.

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

An €8 million plan to raise and restore four sunken Guinness barges from the ocean so they can once more ply the Liffey is at the heart of an ambitious plan to carry tourists from Heuston Station to Dublin Bay.

A planning application has been lodged with Dublin City Council to reintroduce the barges, which carried barrels down the river from Guinness’s James’s Gate brewery between the 1880s and the late 1960s.

The 80-foot long barges are currently deep beneath the ocean off the coast of Northern Ireland, where they were scuttled after a second life as sand transports.

The refitted, glass-canopied barges would operate two- and four-hour cruises, while a separate fleet of ferries would collect and drop off passengers at 12 points along the river, including Smithfield, Tara Street, the Point, Grand Canal Dock and the planned U2 Experience in the Docklands.

The heart of the scheme is a purpose-built pontoon at Ormond Quay between the Ha’penny and Millennium bridges, says Sam Field Corbett, the project manager with the firm behind the scheme, Irish Ship and Barge Fabrication Company.

The 120-metre “floating street” would be cobbled and sit about one metre off the Liffey boardwalk, said Mr Field Corbett. Visitors would be able to walk a few inches from the surface of the river, as the pontoon would move with the tide, he said. They could brave the elements and sit at outdoor tables on the pontoon, and order coffee from two Guinness barges refitted as a floating cafe and restaurant.

In relation to the barges being deep under the ocean its actually a lot less glamorous. Most of them are in various states of disrepair on the shores of Lough Neagh. Most of them where used as sand barges hence them ending up on the Lough. Emerson Aggregates ran them out of Ardmore Point on the Armagh side of the Lough.

Interesting the U44 which was also a Guiness boat used on the Grand Canal was abandoned for years at the Bannfoot near Maghery in Co Armagh. I used to play in it as a kid in the mid 80’s. Its now been bought by a private owner to convert in a pleasure boat I believe.

This sounds a good idea, i suppose. People used to argue about the neglect of the river and how the river should be involved more in the city, bringing it to life, etc…, having some daily activity on it.
Anyone checked out the boat pub down the docks?

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

The refitted, glass-canopied barges would operate two- and four-hour cruises

Where on earth would you be going on a four hour cruise on the liffey? Its not quite the Seine or Thames (or Rhine or Danube…)

Eh…. lovely idea but they’ll need a weir on the Liffey if they want people on it.

AFAIK, the barges have a very low draught, hence they can get under the bridges. Although I would imageine the river might need dredging in certain locations, as well as barges operating subject to the tides. A weir would raise the water level…..

Kildare… :confused:

You’d have trouble getting passt the Leixlip dam 🙂

Silly season already is it

They cant fill that new liffey voyage boat from what ive seen. So lets increase the fleet by 400%????

I agree that it would be nice from a nostalgic point of view but the money should go elsewhere.

First the cable car things.

Then a giant man having a slash.

Now this.

Leave this poor river alone!!!!!!!!!!

Sounds like a ready made case for the river taxi guys and a recipe for cost overruns on both the pontoons and the barges. 12 stops? It’ll take forever to get anywhere. Given the boardwalk has become the heroin dealing location of choice I’d also worry about the safety of people in that area. Too easy for junkies to mug people and buy heroin closeby.

sounds like a fantastic plan.

for venice.

@jdivision wrote:

Given the boardwalk has become the heroin dealing location of choice I’d also worry about the safety of people in that area. Too easy for junkies to mug people and buy heroin closeby.

Steady on I have walked up and down it loads of times and never felt I was going to be mugged, dont be so quick to put the boot into one of the capitals more successful additions, it is the city centre and will always have a varied mix of characters.

Obviously cool if the restore the ships and terrible if they build the pontoon there, by the hapenny bridge. I googled the Irish Ship and Barge Fabrication Company, the company behind this. Does anyone know what happened to their plan for the MV Cill Airne discussed in the post article below. Also, what happened to there previous application re the barges?

Post 10/7/2005:
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/07/10/story6332.asp
Training ship to be used as bar
They are investing €2.5 million to transform the boat into a floating restaurant, bar, art gallery and maritime museum berthed opposite Spencer Dock. It will also be available for charter to visit ocean liners and hold wedding receptions in Dublin Bay between the North Wall and Dun Laoghaire.

Irish Times
Thursday, October 26, 2006
Location: River Liffey adjacent to the Ha’Penny Bridge and Heuston Station. Proposed development: installation of floating pontoons to service Guinness Heritage Barges on the River Liffey. The pontoon at Ha’Penny Bridge is on the north wall, upstream of the Ha’Penny Bridge and accessed by two gangways at either end supported by a piled platform outside of the boardwalk structure. The pontoons have a total area of 685sq m (7,373sq ft). The pontoon at Heuston is on the south wall approximately 100 metres upstream of the Sean Heuston Bridge and accessed by one gangway supported by a piled platform. The total area is 220sq m (2,368sq ft). Applicant: Irish Ship & Barge Fabrication Company.

Great to see the river and quays being taken back from the Irish Truckers Federation.

@jdivision wrote:

Given the boardwalk has become the heroin dealing location of choice I’d also worry about the safety of people in that area. Too easy for junkies to mug people and buy heroin closeby.

Joe Duffy: “We have Anto from Killbarrack on the line”

Caller: “Joe the barges will SINK and the poor childers will be drown-ed or molestimaficated by drug dealing pedophiles!!!!! Joe!!!”

Joe Duffy: “But Anto, what are we are Oirish citizens going to do about these floating drug dens in our city with its culture and heritage which all of us a proud of?”

Caller: “Up Man U!”

Cute Panda, the word is “drownded”

Cobbled……………..Pontoon…………? I don’t get it, like a thatched bus or something. Would someone enlighten me.

The Cill Airne is moored at Spencer Dock and trading as a restuarant and bar.

@StephenC wrote:

The Cill Airne is moored at Spencer Dock and trading as a restuarant and bar.

How funny I never realised and never saw any fuss about it; have you been, is it good, busy, etc.

Sounds like nice idea,
but i cant imagine it being too interesting for the tourists, but what do i know..
Party boat/restaurant in the docklands ,now thats a good idea

@CC105 wrote:

Steady on I have walked up and down it loads of times and never felt I was going to be mugged, dont be so quick to put the boot into one of the capitals more successful additions, it is the city centre and will always have a varied mix of characters.

Who’s putting the boot in. I like the boardwalk, but the fact remains there is a lot of open drug dealing there and the cops don’t give a damn. Policed properly it’d be great. I don’t view junkies as characters, particularly if they start to mug people. I’ve been hassled on the boardwalk before, fortunately I’m so big that they leave me alone after a while but I was previously mugged at syringe point, just off O’Connell Street in 1996/1997 as were 12 other people in my class of 34. The junkies were moved from O’Connell St by the cops the following year that and it improved drastically, unfortunately now a lot of them hang around the boardwalk be it down by the Custom House or on Ormond Quay. Last Thursday just by the bridge heroin was being openly sold at 10.20am in the morning.

saw the bar/restaurant boat today, looks quite nice.i hope its a sucess-once no one hammered goes overboard, theres a boat in newcastle thats been turned into a nightclub thats very successful.

It should be interesting watching this crowd trying to findthe barges sunk off Belfast
Waterways Ireland and the Heritage Boat Association. records show over that no fewer than nine of the boats ended their days on Lough Neagh where they were used in the sand trade.
The Vartry liess half sunk west of the breakwater at the entrance to the flood gates at Toomebridge, the Slaney lies in the Queens gap on the lower Bann and the Boyne is part of the harbour wall at Toome Bay. The Chapelizod and Castleknock, where blown up by the IRA in the ’70’s. The Clonsilla sank in a storm and lives in 70 feet of water, The Foyle is half buried in sand at the mouth of the Crumlin River, The Lagan forms part of the Quay at Sandy Bay The Kilkenny is off Ballyginniff, as part of a breakwater
Of the boats that did not go to Lough Neagh the Shannon was wrecked off Balbriggan. The Suir, went to work on the River Slaney, and the Moy to the river Suir,
There are three other Farmleigh boats near Waterford. Two were sunk in the mouth of the Kilkenny Blackwater. The third is still afloat at Fastnet Shipping
See “Cool Metal – Clear Water” published by The Heritge Boat Assoc and Waterways Ireland

What a waste of money!

Stephen C: this isn’t an issue, as far as i understand it, it is a private company.

I know…but money is money! It still waste!

And i’m not on a “tink of all de hospirrils dat could have bin built wit dat money” buzz

a floating hospital…hmmm….

exactleee…..ye bollix ye

nice idea…

but with irelands weather and low tides

I think the money would be better spent on oconnell bridge sq on the bridge and about a million other things…

@missarchi wrote:

I think the money would be better spent on oconnell bridge sq on the bridge and about a million other things…

again, its a private company.

@jdivision wrote:

Who’s putting the boot in. I like the boardwalk, but the fact remains there is a lot of open drug dealing there and the cops don’t give a damn. Policed properly it’d be great. I don’t view junkies as characters, particularly if they start to mug people. I’ve been hassled on the boardwalk before, fortunately I’m so big that they leave me alone after a while but I was previously mugged at syringe point, just off O’Connell Street in 1996/1997 as were 12 other people in my class of 34. The junkies were moved from O’Connell St by the cops the following year that and it improved drastically, unfortunately now a lot of them hang around the boardwalk be it down by the Custom House or on Ormond Quay. Last Thursday just by the bridge heroin was being openly sold at 10.20am in the morning.

Has no one ever told them heroin is so 90’s:p

so yerman how many useable boats does that make?

“The Cill Airne is moored at Spencer Dock and trading as a restuarant and bar.”

I originally trained on that ship (I’m a marine engineer not an architect :o) back in the ’90’s and I was onboard working on her during the refurbishment. It’s a brilliant job, if you get a chance ye should go and eat there, even just once.

When they originally started refurbishing her the company applied to various governemnt departments about using her as a maritime museum, the answer they got was along the lines of “what us, an island nation – why would we need a maritime museum? Typical and in a few years there will be a big announcement about how we must preserve our maritime heritage.

Anyway here’s the restaurant’s email address http://www.mvcillairne.com/, sorry if it got off the point a little but the people who renovated the Cill Airne are the ones in talks to renovate the guinness barges.

Someone say “Pontoon”…

Snap!

Photomontages of what the development would look like during daytime – what do folks think?

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

Looks ridiculous. Bluntly.

Yeah, I fear that it could be quite a crude intervention. Recently I think theres been far too many ill-considered interventions competing to take place in the Liffey “conservation area”, with a distinct lack of overall vision. Who’s to forget the so-called “Suas” cable-car – now seemingly abandoned; then there’s the woo-haa over the Clarence, and of course there’s the recently removed “fridges” from Grattan Bridge. And of course one would not want to overlook this gem, as initially passed by DCC:

@Devin, from thread: [url wrote:

https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=5930&page=2%5B/url%5D

anyone who’s seen this is flabbergasted that (a) an architect working in Dublin today would propose this building one bridge westwards of the Four Couts, and (b) that Dublin City Council would grant permission for it.

Still, Im interested to hear what people think re the pontoon…

@Paul Clerkin wrote:

Looks ridiculous. Bluntly.

You want more than this, hutton?

@ctesiphon wrote:

You want more than this, hutton?

Add it in, add it in CTE – all ears are open 🙂

Come on guys; it’s too near the Ha’penny Bridge, but I think the montage gives it more substance than it would have in reality. The gangways in particular would appear a lot ‘lighter’ than they seem here. Anything (almost) that would get traffic and people back on the river is surely to be welcomed, and it’s not an irreversible intervention like the nonsense proposed for the Clarence which would destroy the urban heritage of that part of the river forever.
Which would you rather have: the barges back or U2 as urban-design gurus? Discuss.

@hutton wrote:

all ears are open

If only…

But really, surely the phrases ‘greatest natural asset in the city’, ‘treat with the utmost sensitivity’ etc. are relevant here? Then again, what’s emerging in the DDDA is starting to look dangerously like precedent…

Why do things in half measures? Between the boardwalks, the BX bridge, the DDDA’s “buildings on stilts” and this, it’s obvious that the more stuff we put over the Liffey the better; so why piss about and not just culvert the whole stretch fully? Create a linear public space (“plaza” is so last year) stretching from Heuston to the doclands with a few stainless steel poles, imported granite seats, kiosks and an eco-pogo-stick for hire franchise. It’s time this space was given back to the people!

@jimg wrote:

… and an eco-pogo-stick for hire franchise

😀

Lol, quality comment of the week. See thats what I mean CTE – take a leaf out of jimg’s book :p

Now can we have a monorail too please?

What do you think those folks are doing just standing there on that windswept pontoon. Chatting? Seems like an odd place to chat.

Are they applying for a barge or a barge and a docked submarine????:D

There’s a decent looking bike half buried in the mud beside the Halfpenny bridge (Wellington Quay side), which emerges into view at very low tide.

Worth a go the next time Lidl do grappling hooks!

rejected
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/property/2009/0122/1232474672492.html

ANOTHER PROPOSAL for the River Liffey has been given the boot by An Bord Pleanála which has refused planning permission for a 120m pontoon off the Boardwalk at Lower Ormond Quay because it would cause “visual clutter” and impact on views along the quays and from the nearby Millennium and Ha’penny bridges.

An Taisce was one of the parties up in arms about the proposal saying the plan was premature in light of the pending City Quays Framework Plan.???

a more temporary thing further down river would be better

Good call. I liked the idea of getting the barges back up and running, but not like this.

Fingers crossed the decision will also put to bed the DDDA plans for floating pontoons further down the river, outside the Custom House. (They were designed by heneghan.peng, and briefly glimpsed on Archiseek some time ago.)

A welcome decision – and once again another damning indictment as to the amount of consents approved by Dublin City Council that on appeal are overturned by An Bord Pleanála; I would guess it’s probably about 70 – 80% when taken by consultee bodies.

Odd tabloid choice of language by the Irish Times – “given the boot“, and the phrase “yet another“; what then are the other applications that have received refusal by An B.P.; Clarence? I don’t think so. Sloppy journalism imo.

Completely separately, I wonder if an application was made for a pontoon slightly downstream, say designed by a starchitect for a famous rock band who would make a promise to play on it once for 5 minutes, would it get permission? :rolleyes:

Anyhow a good decision nonetheless.

there was some mention somewhere again during the week about finding a use for the areafront of the custom house. other then drugs makret

Very unfortunate….it would make a great addition to the liffey…..after a liffey clean up!!!

Irish times photo

It’s probably the right decision, but the idea of bringing the river back to life in this way shouldn’t be lost. There is surely room for such a feature below MT Bridge where the river begins to widen out; in front of the Custom House or on the opposite bank with views of the CH would seem far more appropriate. The CH reflecting on the water is one of Dublin’s iconic views, so I guess the right bank would win out. There was a dicussion earlier about the poss. reuse of a graving dock, and there is always the vast expanse of Grand Canal Harbour (but the nearer the centre the better).
Instead of just refusing permission, ABP or DCC should be a lot more proactive and offer developers an alternative or discuss a better vision.

This is probably the only portion of the quay, which could justify the boat service in terms of footfall.

@kefu wrote:

This is probably the only portion of the quay, which could justify the boat service in terms of footfall.

It wasn’t so much a boat “service”, rather it purported to be a tourist attraction – as was also going to be the case with the Suas. Between these projects and Gormley’s standing man shelved, I reckon the Liffey has by default got a reprieve from what could have ended up being a whole load of junk that may have then been impossible to get removed.

DCC Head Planner Dick Gleeson is on the record saying that they (DCC) were in the process of preparing a “Liffey Plan”. That was about five years ago: where is it?

Or are there just not enough speculators that have land-banked with a view for high-rise for the council to give a dam*?

*Pun of the week 😀

Instead of just refusing permission, ABP or DCC should be a lot more proactive and offer developers an alternative or discuss a better vision

Isn’t that a bit like the developers suing the banks? “You should know my business better than I do!”

ABP is not a planning advisory service, the more independantly they operate the better in my book.

Yes, but DCC is, or should be. Planning authorities acting remotely from reality and not engaging with applicants reduces planning to a quasi-legal anonymous voodoo process which in the end benefits no-one.

I would have to agree. There should be a clear vision for the city, where potential applicants would pretty much know what is acceptable and desirable and what isn’t. DCC should be working with applicants to guide them in the right direction, with guidance from ABP, and a consistent approach taken to all applications, major or minor.