grangegorman allocated 262 million

Is 262 million enough? That kind of budget, it should be a competition.

Why STW indeed?
I suppose DIT know exactly what they’re going to get – Chinese granite, metal grilles, wood panelled glazed atria – all very nice but a bit plain and lacking in ambition – reflective of DIT’s managment structure so at least they’ll feel at home in it

What’s going to happen to the major DIT buildings like Aungier Street and Bolton Street?

Looks like this may actually happen afterall

Two shortlisted for post of Dublin city manager
From:ireland.com
Saturday, 3rd June, 2006

Two candidates have been shortlisted to succeed John Fitzgerald as Dublin city manager, The Irish Times has learned. They are Cork city manager Joe Gavin and Fingal county manager John Tierney.

Mr Fitzgerald, who is credited with transforming Dublin City Council, steps down on June 16th after 10 years in office.

His job was advertised by the Public Appointments Commission last April, with a salary in the range of €150,000 to €200,000.

The city council is seeking a new chief executive who “will consolidate the progress achieved over the past decade, to lead the city forward as well as motivate a workforce of 6,500 and manage a budget of €2 billion.

There were more than 20 applicants for the post, including some from the private sector.

Most of the applicants were senior local authority officials, including several from the top level of the city administration.

Mr Gavin, who is in his late fifties, has been Cork city manager for the past seven years. Previously, he served as Galway city manager.

Mr Tierney, who is in his mid-40s, succeeded him in Galway before moving to Fingal last year.

Both are to be interviewed again next week by a board consisting of Niall Callan, secretary general of the Department of the Environment; Seán Dorgan, chief executive of IDA Ireland; Dorothy Scally, a human resources specialist, and Mr Fitzgerald himself.

It is anticipated that the name of his successor will be announced next Friday.

Mr Fitzgerald has been appointed as chairman of the development agency that will oversee the relocation of Dublin Institute of Technology to Grangegorman.

I think they should look at someone from outside Ireland…. a UK manager. Bring a fresh perspective on things

@StephenC wrote:

I think they should look at someone from outside Ireland…. a UK manager. Bring a fresh perspective on things

mmmmm….I feel I ought to comment about this one, but am not so sure of what to say. A fresh perspective to things would, in my mind, more likely come from outside the English speaking world. But who am I to criticise a culture where when you push ‘1’ on the TV remote BBC 1 pops up. And as for the Queen, I usually ask which one.

Important tourist attractions wherever they reign

I concur with your point and think that someone like Pascal Maguelle from Barcelona would have been a great addition to the city. I also think that Ken Livingston has done a great job particularly with transport in London. Traffic is moving freely in the City and West End for the first time in decades which is a tribute to Livingston’s strength of will and a comparison with the Luas ducking Dawson Street is quite tragic.

I also think to overly concentrate on outsiders would be unfair to Fitzgerald who has established himself in the European pecking order as an individual of European standing in terms of the changes he has overseen. If every government promise for funding made was honoured on time he would have acheived a great deal more and I really hope that he is not let down at Grangegorman as many times as he was as City Manager.

Whoever fills his boots will have a big act to follow

@StephenC wrote:

I think they should look at someone from outside Ireland…. a UK manager. Bring a fresh perspective on things

😮 So Dublin is to get a new City Manager?
Two sites worth a visit to see what you may be letting yourselves in for.

http://www.bailii.org/ie/cases/IEHC/2001/53.html
http://www.corksouthwest.com

also think to overly concentrate on outsiders would be unfair to Fitzgerald who has established himself in the European pecking order as an individual of European standing in terms of the changes he has overseen. If every government promise for funding made was honoured on time he would have acheived a great deal more and I really hope that he is not let down at Grangegorman as many times as he was as City Manager.

I completely agree that John Fitzgerald has been an outstanding success in reinventing the council and changing its (often very negative) view of the city and its citizens.

My suggestion of a UK manager stems from the fact that (administratively at least) UK councils tend to be quite innovative and successful at pushing through new ideas. But its true, the choice should not be limited to UK. I just think that this is an important point fo Dublin. The new city manager needs to build on the achievements of push the city forward. Fitzgerald has broken through a lot of the psychological barriers to changing the way people use and view the city and a fresh outside perspective could go along way to developing Dublin into an important European capital.

Theres still plenty of things to do at DCC… a recent look at their website would show that. Its become so cluttered and second rate looking ( i still think you should be offering your services P Clerkin!). And dysfunctional departments like Roads and Public Lighting need to be tackled. Improving the city’s quays should also be a big priority for the next guy (why not any women?)

@Rory W wrote:

What’s going to happen to the major DIT buildings like Aungier Street and Bolton Street?

They’re to be sold off

Thanks for that – just goes to show if you wait around long enough you can get an answer!!!:)

@Rory W wrote:

Thanks for that – just goes to show if you wait around long enough you can get an answer!!!:)

Sorry, didn’t even see the date on the thread!

Grangegorman design competition opens
The Sunday Business Post

An international design competition to masterplan the development of Grangegorman is now open, with expressions of interest due by April 16. An international design competition to masterplan the development of Grangegorman is now open, with expressions of interest due by April 16. The masterplan will include the development of a new campus for the Dublin Institute of Technology (DIT) along with health and other community facilities at the 74-acre site near Smithfield in Dublin city centre. The site is in two lots located on either side of the Grangegorman Road, and extends from the North Circular Road as far south as North Brunswick Street and from Broadstone to the rear of Prussia Street. The site is zoned for recreational, institutional and community use.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=COMMERCIAL-qqqm=nav-qqqid=21822-qqqx=1.asp

That’s good to hear. I’d love to see some world class architects designing it.
We need to put Ireland on the architectural map.
Example
http://www.greatbuildings.com/places/ireland.html

Not a single building built in the last 200 years.

Of course, Ideally it would be a world class IRISH architect, but unfortunately, there really isn’t any.

I was Bit confused by the wording of the tender I saw in the Times the other day. Are they looking to hold a starchitects beauty contest or do a masterplan like an LAP or Framework Plan? Isn’t it all supposed to be built by 2010 as well!

@Blisterman wrote:

That’s good to hear. I’d love to see some world class architects designing it.
We need to put Ireland on the architectural map.
Example
http://www.greatbuildings.com/places/ireland.html

Not a single building built in the last 200 years.

Of course, Ideally it would be a world class IRISH architect, but unfortunately, there really isn’t any.

We have the Glucksman. Which is one world class building. Are there really no others?

@tommyt wrote:

I was Bit confused by the wording of the tender I saw in the Times the other day. Are they looking to hold a starchitects beauty contest or do a masterplan like an LAP or Framework Plan?

Maybe Andrzej Wejchert will be given the job. He seems to have gathered a lot of Irish educational institution work since UCD.

Because UCD is the aspiration!

it is precisely not the ambition to be like UCD in fact it is likely to be a different type of campus altogether.

In what way?

Andrzej Wejchert plan would have been very good if they had kept to it and didn’t go hog wild building stumpy buildings and car parks everywhere.

Grangegorman Development Agency Announces Appointment Of Chief Executive Officer
Filed: 30th April 2007 11:39 AM

The Grangegorman Development Agency has announced the appointment of Mr. Gerry Murphy as chief executive officer of the Agency, from June 2007. Mr. Murphy joins the Grangegorman Development Agency from the National Roads Authority where he was the Head of Public Partnerships and Network Tolling since 1999.

Announcing Mr. Murphy’s appointment, John Fitzgerald, chairman of the Grangegorman Development Agency, said: “I am delighted that Gerry is joining us. He will take the helm at the very start of an exciting development project which aims to create a new city quarter, comprising a DIT campus which will re-house over 20,000 DIT students along with health and community services and recreational amenities.’

‘I am confident that Gerry’s wealth of experience and knowledge of property planning and development through his work with the National Roads Authority and other high profile projects will prove advantageous as he drives this development to completion,” continued Fitzgerald.

Mr. Murphy is taking on the chief executive officer role of the Agency at an ideal time as work on preparing a masterplan design for Grangegorman gets underway. The masterplan section of the development is expected to complete at the end of 2007.

An engineer by profession, Mr. Murphy has project managed very large infrastructure projects on behalf of Dublin City Council and Dublin County Council. He has also had particular involvement in developing the public private partnership model for financing public infrastructure on behalf of the National Roads Authority. Mr. Murphy previously worked for Concern in Tanzania as a Water Projects Engineer.

Mr. Murphy holds academic qualifications in both Engineering and Teaching and is a Chartered Member of Engineers Ireland since 1988.

Wheres the hospital thats on the site going to go? When will it go?

how about high rise here? high rise for universities?

Hospital has reduced in size enormously over the years as pyschiatric practices have changed. The numbers of patients there are now down to a little more than 100 so it will be moved to a much smaller site – I’m nearly sure it’s on the North Circular Road. Health Board own a lot of land in the area so there’ll be no shortage of sites for them.

Sketches of the DIT masterplan are available here:
http://www.grangegormandevelopmentagency.ie/strategicplan.html
and a longer version available here, listed as June 2008.
http://www.dit.ie/about/grangegorman/

15,14 and 10 storey buildings is the only high rise. Looks like a great plan, architecture looks brilliant!:D. architects website http://www.darmodyarchitects.com http://www.mryarchitects.com/index_centered.html. albion property building mixed use property on edge of development. very dull looking render!! a few more renders on websites.

I agree; on first reading the plan looks fantastic, the established experience with working with Universities really shows. Great stuff.

The one concern is that they will build out the site pretty quickly; what are the long term plans, are they hoping for some of the bus depot or what?

By looking at the plan they are going to take over 50% of bus depot for future expansion. When looking at the maps for the site they have plenty of land for future expansion why the bus depot?? But its really a great plan, the views of the city from the high rises is great. the development would just blend in with the city.:D

I wasn’t sure whether the drawings of the bus depot where for future expansion or for commercial development. Assuming though that without the buildings they have marked as future expansions, the plan caters for the existing DIT and leaving out the bus depot they look to me like they are short of expansion possibilities. This would be worry since it would put the circulation spaces and playing fields under development pressure in the long term.

I looked at this a few weeks ago, and what struck me was the relatively low density of the overall development. Higher densities on smaller footprints – though not necessarily high rises! – would allow for more expansion in future, whereas the current parkland layout might prove difficult to densify down the line.

You thought it was low density; it seemed to me to be about right for a university with 22 thousand students, particularly given the remit of making it clearly permeable and replete with community facilities, something I think the masterplan achieves. The site though isn’t huge, not once the HSE part is taken out.

Oh, for sure. I was thinking of the entire site, not just the DIT bit.

Also, ‘relatively low density’ ≠ ‘low density’- I was just implying that I expected higher densities in a more concentrated area. This is an urban location but the solution proposed is a more suburban one. And higher densities would be a better safeguard for the playing fields.

At least there are no plans to provide student car parking (hello UCD! I’m looking at you!), though I fear we may yet see the same type of fecky little black and yellow ramps as Trinity has just installed- just about the most cycling unfriendly addition one could make to a road surface. Did Trinity not consider leaving gaps in the ramps? They’re modular, ferchrissakes! Just take out one of the bits.

[/rant]

How would you increase the density; replace one of the quads with a big big buildings, thicken the buildings to reduce the quad size, get rid of some of these “green fingers”?

[aside] Don’t get me started on TCD and bikes, it’s a whole tale of amazing disgracefulness, for a start the director of buildings isn’t responsible for cycle, as he is for parking, the SU is. [/aside]

It looks really great and the integrating with the city PDF file shows the first proposed route for luas line D that I’ve ever seen, No thanks to the RPA. I live in the area and I’ll be happy to see this being developed. Does anyone know what time frame we’re looking at?

@ctesiphon wrote:

I looked at this a few weeks ago, and what struck me was the relatively low density of the overall development. Higher densities on smaller footprints – though not necessarily high rises! – would allow for more expansion in future, whereas the current parkland layout might prove difficult to densify down the line.

Don’t know if you’ve ever walked those grounds but there are stands and individual examples of spectacular yew trees that must be ancient and their preservation would be central to the design-haven’t had time to peruse the masterplans yet-just thought I would stick an initial oar in:)

tommyt: do look at the masterplan, it does look impressive. The bottom c. third of the part to the west of Grangegorman Rd is playing fields and this includes a tree lined walk, I take it this is the existing tree lined walk you always see in pictures of the site?

@tommyt wrote:

Don’t know if you’ve ever walked those grounds but there are stands and individual examples of spectacular yew trees that must be ancient and their preservation would be central to the design-haven’t had time to peruse the masterplans yet-just thought I would stick an initial oar in:)

I haven’t walked it, but I’m familiar from reading the documentation and looking at it on Virtual Earth. I’m not advocating a blank slate approach, btw, and retention of the historic buildings and whatever specimen trees remain would be essential in my opinion. That;s the starting point.

notjim-

Re densification- increase the number of floors? Bear in mind, this is possible without going up. Though, in the case of Grangegorman, I do see potential for higher buildings too. My original point was more to do with potential for future densification. As you note, the current layout might increase the pressure on the green spaces, whereas a more concentrated one could specify which lands are for amenity use and which ones are for future development. If not, it could become another UCD Business Park.

Re the fingers- it’s a cute concept – oh look, it looks like a hand! – but I’d prefer it if they were called green corridors rather than fingers. Would you bet against someone at some stage referring to DIT ‘reaching out into the community’? 🙂

I haven’t seen all of the masterplan but I seem to notice that there is no indoor sport hall.

@ctesiphon wrote:

Would you bet against someone at some stage referring to DIT ‘reaching out into the community’? 🙂

I’v heard it said already. Or at least something quite close to it.

@PTB wrote:

I haven’t seen all of the masterplan but I seem to notice that there is no indoor sport hall.

Not true, the masterplan includes a sports hall and pool built into the ground so its windows look out over sports fields. It looks very fine.

Plans for the site!!!:D:D

That makes up for everything else you’ve posted in the last few weeks.

This is going to make Trinity look like a mausoleum!

@gunter wrote:

This is going to make Trinity look like a mausoleum!

You’ll note elsewhere my belief that it would be in TCD interests to persuade DIT to merge into the University of Dublin, I guess this is part of why; it looks like a great plan. However, you will also note how trinity it is like, playing fields at one end, the rest made up of linked courts, courts and avenues are the secret to good university design.

@notjim wrote:

You’ll note elsewhere my belief that it would be in TCD interests to persuade DIT to merge into the University of Dublin, .

What’s the advantage of that?

@notjim wrote:

You’ll note elsewhere my belief that it would be in TCD interests to persuade DIT to merge into the University of Dublin, I guess this is part of why; it looks like a great plan. However, you will also note how trinity it is like, playing fields at one end, the rest made up of linked courts, courts and avenues are the secret to good university design.

I love this plan. You’re quite right there notjim, the similarity with the layout of Trinity struck me instantly. One great oval ‘green’ of planning fields does give the whole scheme a great university feel and a pattern of ‘streets’ and squares will keep it tight and real. Great urban scale without resorting to clusters of high rises, one focal campanile, jesus this is perfect.

A lot of fledgeling colleges with image issues, when given an old asylum to inhabit, fall into the trap of trying to ape the imagery of the historic campus model, but this scheme doesn’t seem to do that, it goes all out for a contemporary expression, but one that has learned how to do it from the traditional models.

On DIT becoming a wing of Trinity, you’re barking up the wrong tree there notjim. I know there is a relationship, I think I may even have some half-assed certificate here somewhere from Trinity that goes with my Dip. Arch from Bolton St., but I think DIT are on a different trajectory and this kind of masterplan will give them great impetus.

The best part of a DIT masterplan like this, combined with a great city centre location, is that it has the potential to push UCD into third place, which is exactly where they deserve to be after making one bad decision after another over the course of the last thirty years.

What’s the advantage of that?

To have at least one Irish university which could conceivably compete internationally in terms of research?

The huge redundency in the system whereby every 3rd level institute in the country has a department of this or that means that none really achieves the critical mass to draw international academics of note or build successful research units. Even relatively successful departments here are very insular in my experience.

I misspent a couple of years doing post-graduate research; there were 3 or 4 3rd level institutions in Dublin where I could have done my work. While there was some cooperation, the reality was that the respective departments were effectively competing among themselves for students, staff and government/commercial funding.

Separate colleges under the University of Dublin makes sense assuming the departments are also amalgamated. Enrollment numbers of 50,000 doesn’t even qualify a university as being substantial by international standards. 100,000 might get you noticed. Such student numbers provide the financial support for active and successful research departments as well as potential post-graduate fodder. In theory the NUI is a single university with constituent colleges but the reality of it’s stucture mean that it is misleading to compare its student numbers with those of universities outside Ireland; UCD is the de facto largest “university” in Ireland with about 20k.

Like much of our infrastructure, it is spread too thinly which is inefficient and uncompetitive.

@jimg wrote:

To have at least one Irish university which could conceivably compete internationally in terms of research?

Separate colleges under the University of Dublin makes sense assuming the departments are also amalgamated.

Like much of our infrastructure, it is spread too thinly which is inefficient and uncompetitive.

Surely it is inefficient and uncompetitive only in respect of a small number of uber-technical r + d cyber spooks, for everone else, having four universities of broadly similar scale spread across the city increases the level of competition, no?

I’ll admit I don’t understand the Oxbridge system where each university seems to be composed of half a dozen separate colleges. I’d assumed it was some kind of Harry Potter thing to do with stripy ties, is there more to it than that?

I don’t want to go off topic which is the Grangegorman plan and I think gunter has summed up it advantages, it takes what is successful about the traditional university model and expresses it in a modern way. I do believe TCD and DIT and NCAD should be merged inside the University of Dublin because it would help give an Irish university sufficient scale, it is good to have national competition, and that wouldn’t change, but the competition for the best students and the best researchers isn’t a national one, it is international.

Furthermore, it would be great to attack this dumb, and false, bimodal distinction between the ITs and the Universities, there isn’t a natural two way split, the different third level institutions are much more different from each other than this habit of dividing them into two groups implies, first, and second, while there might be some purpose in separating strictly regional institutions from national ones, there is no real point in separating vocational and technical institutions from universities. Merge NCAD, IT and TCD into the University of Dublin and then split them into a College of Engineering, a College of Art and Design, a College of Vocational Education and Trinity College, being the Science and Arts Faculties, oh and do something with business. NYU has merged with NY Poly in this way and U Manchester with UMIST, nearer home DCU is gradually reeling in St Pats, TCD is absorbing the Milltown Institute and who knows what will happen to Surgeons when the NUI collapses.

IT looks amazing!

Possibly a rival for best campus. Trinity still wins, but this really will turn heads.

The stepped areas looking over the pitch’s look amazing.

I see they really want the Luas D line from looking at those plans. They can dream on. The BX is uncertain as it is considering it will be built on the same route as the metro north.:rolleyes: And line D is planed for post 2014 anyway.

Still the campus looks great. No complaints sire!:cool:

More renders!! Plans for bus station and new luas line in 2014-2015!! Also plans for the old buildings in the campus.

Maybe the soft arty watercolours are helping sell this, but this just looks outstanding to me. The massing around the entrance at Broadstone, the great split level urban space spilling across Constitution Hill to the King’s Inn park, this is great stuff, and look you don’t need 32 storey high rise clusters!

It’s not until you see someone get one of these right that you realize how stiff and sterile proposals like the Markets Area regeneration are, or how greedy, over-scaled and insensitive are proposals like Dunne’s in Ballsbridge.

This is urban planning as we haven’t seen it is some time. Now a ‘Knowledge Axis’ that links the Digital Hub to Grangegorman, is starting to look like a much more interesting concept.

Im a bit of a high rise addict but i agree with qunter!!!:eek: Its a breath of fresh air, its a majestic plan which will be great for the area. The plan for the area makes a change from extreme high rises, which we dont need in SOME areas. The architects know what there doing alright, when you have an experienced architect working on a project of this propotion its makes a difference. At least most people are agreeing that this plan is great compared to other threads!!!!!:D

It looks really good. It looks like it is integrated within the area almost seamless but is also noticeably different. However as this is the plan NOW how will it fare out in time? What is the timeframe for all the building? I am also wondering if high rise is a good thing as in time you will probably run out of space and will that cause the same messy situation DIT is now with various bits all over the city because Grangegorma is full in the future?

I can understand the idea of DIT and Trinity merging. It would allow a lot of synergies in the future and give the new amalgamated university more clout when it comes to R+D. When you have both institutions building similar facilities and competing for similar R+D contracts it would make sense. It would not stifle competition as Dublin alone would have DCU and UCD to compete against. An amalgamation would also allow finer planning in the Grangegorman masterplan.

come on why do we need a another university, i would have loved to go to tech and not a unviersity OT

lostexpectations: DIT is a university; CIT, LIT, WIT and GMIT are hard to tell from universities, they are different to TCD, but TCD and DCU are already pretty different, TCD and UCD are different, I agree that we have too many universities, but being precious about the title “university” doesn’t change that, merging TCD, NCAD and DIT in the University of Dublin would, on a superficial level it reduces the number of universities by one and, more, it creates greater permeability between technical, vocational and traditional university education, while, by keeping colleges within the university, preserving distinct teaching missions. It also has a chance of creating the critical mass needed for international competition for students at undergraduate and postgraduate level and for research staff. Already some of the best students go abroad for their primary degrees and most of the best go abroad for PhDs.

gunter, someone else has mentioned it but the point is to have a university which can compete internationally. And no, it is not just a small niche of highly technical which benefit from having a critical mass. The reality is the opposite; there are only a tiny number of fields which do not particularly benefit from having greater mass. On an international scale most of our university departments can be beaten in graduate and research work by UK universities you mightn’t even have heard of. We generally are unable to compete on a european level never mind internationally. If you enrole in a graduate program in a top school in the states, you can expect to have access to internationally renown experts in the field at the least through their lectures; these are often people who are renown outside academia. It’s like a pyramid: you need a huge under-graduate program; this supports and feeds into busy research and thought graduate courses; which in turn supports active doctoral and post-doctoral reseach; and the whole structure is topped off by the academic superstars.

All this is probably true, but it is equally an example of the commodification of education; universities are now degree factories – of course one is impressed by the wealth of talent (which is just as impressed with itself) but… Anyway, Grangegorman could be a great site and shouldn’t be held back by concerns about critical mass in some kind of academic supermarket. Believe it or not, institutions can cooperate rather than be amalgamated into huge agglomerations. US universities will always look good because of vast endowments; does the US make the most beneficial contribution to the world? Discuss. How much university research is actually about the needs of the military/big business?

@johnglas wrote:

. Anyway, Grangegorman could be a great site and shouldn’t be held back by concerns about critical mass in some kind of academic supermarket

You are wrong about universities of course, but more’s to the point, you are right that there is not reason to link the two issues; its my fault and my point was that I was envious I certainly didn’t mean that the DIT Grangegorman site should be in some way dependent on merging universities.

You are wrong about universities of course

Hmmm… but not a debate for this thread. This could be such a marvellous opportunity for an area that has traditionally been ‘closed’ to the city being ‘opened’ and integrated; the masterplan looks good and with a clear head and a steady hand there is no reason why it should not be implemented, even during the current blip. I like the idea of a more open ‘campus’ -university uses, yes, but real shops, pubs, cafes, streets, businesses as well – any thoughts?
The thought of the tramway going through, the prospect of integrating it with the marvellous Broadstone building, the retention of historic buildings on the site – am I dreaming or is this all too good to be true?

Well it has a large atrium in the corner by broadstone for public use and the masterplan talks quite a bit about opening the facilities, playgrounds and the like, for public use. They also propose housing a public local library with the university library and there will be a school on the grounds.

I think we are too used to Campus Universities here, UCD wasn’t but they moved, really, or rather more typically, Universities spread beyond their original site and become mixed up with the neighbourhood. However, within their campuses Irish Universities are quite open, TCD is a major city center open space, UL and DCU have significant performance venues, TCD and UCC have public galleries, TCD has the science gallery, UL’s sports facilities get a lot of use beyond the university and sports grounds in the other universities are used by the public, unfortunately none of the Universities have opened their collections as museums, but all of them give reasonably unrestricted access to their grounds. The DIT plan seems to go even further in that direction, which is a good thing.

i would;nt hold my breath on this ever getting built i bought property in area in 99 and the project was to get underway then they will find an excuse to wriggle out of it and give themselfs more rises:cool:

Pot Noodle: I understand your cynicism and actual DIT people seem to feel the same, but it is impressive how quickly the masterplan was produced relative to when the architects were appointed and, if you look at the DIT Grangegorman site you can see they seem to give presentations about it every few months and there is considerable progress from presentation to presentation.

The present blip may hold thingsup a bit, since DIT will – rightly – want the best return on any assets they dispose of. I’ve just seen UCC’s campus and was mightily impressed; it’s very open (although the Honan chapel was closed – just my luck) and my argument would simply be that more non-uni uses (or uses not controlled directly by the uni) should be on-campus to provide a more eclectic mix. I can see problems with this approach, but this is a huge site and it should be able to accommodate them all; the tramway through the site should encourage development which might otherwise not go there.

@notjim wrote:

Pot Noodle: I understand your cynicism and actual DIT people seem to feel the same, but it is impressive how quickly the masterplan was produced relative to when the architects were appointed and, if you look at the DIT Grangegorman site you can see they seem to give presentations about it every few months and there is considerable progress from presentation to presentation.

Luas lines beautiful campus elegantly design all spin i tell you Biffo will just put back up on his Shelf
292 million would not build it who got the project Notjim

If you haven’t looked in a while the dit Grangegorman site has a much more detailed masterplan now, well worth a look:

http://www.dit.ie/about/grangegorman/

There is lots of it so I have only looked at the re-use and conservation section so far, it is fascinating and contains the fun factoid that the architecture school is to be located in the former prison.

This is still moving forward, they have just applied for permission to refurbish the Laundry Building, to protect it and to fit it out so medical services can be decanted their while other works are going on.

http://www.ggda.ie/assets/GG_Laundry_Building_Information.pdf

A very comprehensive review of the existing structures i think, however, i cant find any reference to the original railway buildings. Are these not part of the lands to be developed?

Two different sites: no railway buildings in the Grangegorman site, that would be Broadstone where there is currently a bus garage.
Have to say I seriously doubt this will go ahead now. I think a lot of it was predicated on the DIT being able to sell all the various city center campuses at the height of the boom. Some of those sites, Kevin Street, Aungier Street, Bolton Street etc would not be a particularly attractive proposition now.
Would be suicidal and very damaging for the local areas if those buildings were to be left vacant for a few years, waiting for property prices to recover.

They keep moving forward on this, a new video, plans for a community garden, tendering for the temporary school etc

http://www.ggda.ie/

@kefu wrote:

Have to say I seriously doubt this will go ahead now. I think a lot of it was predicated on the DIT being able to sell all the various city center campuses at the height of the boom. Some of those sites, Kevin Street, Aungier Street, Bolton Street etc would not be a particularly attractive proposition now.
Would be suicidal and very damaging for the local areas if those buildings were to be left vacant for a few years, waiting for property prices to recover.

Yeah, it may unfortunately be the case that DIT have dragged their heels for so long on this that they’ve missed the window of opportunity. Which would be a shame, because the masterplan looks very good.

@notjim wrote:

They keep moving forward on this, a new video, plans for a community garden, tendering for the temporary school etc

http://www.ggda.ie/

Theres the ‘fingers’ again – coming over like the hand of God or something-
damn thats cheesy!

Regarding my comments above about TCD and DIT, from today’s indo . . .

“Trinity College, Dublin, is engaged in another round of secret talks – this time with the Dublin Institute of Technology. It has already upset the other universities who were unaware of its negotiations with UCD, which resulted in Wednesday’s announcement of an Innovation Alliance. The separate discussions with DIT are looking at all possible forms of potential alliance such as joint degrees, shared services and even joint staff appointments. The options under review include everything from a Memorandum of Understanding ‘to the inclusion of DIT as a separate autonomous institution under the university’. A confidential report to the heads of both institutions sets out areas of potential future collaboration …”

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/trinity-in-separate-secret-discussions-with-dit-1671619.html

I don’t know why they don’t just put me in charge.

I was at a consultation of DIT societies yesterday in Aungier Street regarding the new campus. The debate now is focusing on what goes where in the student hub, and what the old listed buildings should be used for. It seems the larger societies will each have their own office.

The Issue of installing a cinema and a broadcasting centre for radio and television was also discussed.

There was a moment of controversy when the talk turned to the location of the student bar and the 4 people representing the Islam soc. up and walked out.

All the way back to Thingmystan?

@johnglas wrote:

All the way back to Thingmystan?

Beautiful country! I stay there every summer. Though it is full of catholics and they can be very preachy and over sensitive. Under thingmystani law condoms are illegal, as is homosexuality and denial of creationism. These details are of little consequence however, you can drink yourself to death over there and its totally cewl 😎

So PC! If you can cite anywhere in the West where any of the above are illegal, then I’ll defer.
(And is it OK in PCland to caricature a whole Western belief-system, ostensibly as a defence of Islam?)

PS It was a joke, already.

Aha! Defer then! 😀

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/corbett-religion-court-2387684-farnan-selna

In terms of legality its more a case show me where it is legal for gays to marry, this is active legal discrimination based on something as immaterial as interracial marriage. Something illustrated really well by a reddit parody …

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yicYaAsc1V4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coy7KAnY2_U … and fod :p

As for condoms, not illegal, but hey why should they be when the head of the church tells it like it is… http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0318/pope.html

And as for the laws of PCland (where I also holiday), it borders Jordan, so its totally ok.

That wasnt my point at all however 😀 Did kind of jump at that one, sorry, but I found it distasteful, reeked of “ye dont like it?? fck off back to your own country then”. I played on the extremes to illustrate the fact that we have a stupid religion too (stupid is relative I guess). I am not trying to defend Islam at all, Im agnostic, and have equal distaste for many institutionalised religions, I was merely trying to attack your comment about those people for engaging in a process which many in this country do, regardless of nationality. Having friends from xxxxxxstan who are “muslim” like I am “christian” I didnt appreciate the implication. You’d get looks for that one irl (in real life ;))

PS It was a joke, already.

A bad one. The big C one on the other thread, that was funny :p

edit: wow, rant 😀 sorry for the OT.

This is getting tedious: if you object to people having a discussion (sic) about a bar, to the extent of walking out, then you really have to ask yourself what you are doing in a western democracy. And yes, one option is for you to ‘go home’ wherever that is. If you stop discussing things because people might ‘walk out’, then you really are in trouble.
You may dislike my humour, but I reserve my right to make bad jokes. You certainly have not made me defer – your logic is all over the place. By the way, I am in a civil partnership; it gives me all the legal rights of a marriage without the bad taste and the exorbitant rip-offs. I don’t feel my rights have been in any way diminished.

Hheh, I wasnt trying to construct a logical argument to get you renounce your dissident ways :rolleyes: Just highlighting the ridiculous aspects of the local religion, just as those people did theirs. Im not trying to be the PCpolice, “defend to the death”, etc, as such, fire away with the jokes, if someone doesnt like em, they might say so in a western democracy.

OK; points taken – let’s hope the bar proposals are worth it after all!

ah the http://www.ggda.ie/
high-dry-and-stranded-in-north-inner-city-dublin
http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/may/10/high-dry-and-stranded-in-north-inner-city-dublin/

Today’s bord snip report recommends merging DIT and Blanchardstown and Tallaght IT in a supercampus in Tallaght. It also recommends selling grangegorman. But who would buy it?

That’s a bit of a mental suggestion.

yeah, i mean surely abandoning the grangegorman site and masterplan altogether is a wasteful suggestion? i mean how much has already been spent on architects fees to design the new dit campus?

http://www.tribune.ie/news/home-news/article/2009/aug/02/grangegorman-residents-call-for-15bn-dit-campus-pl/

Grangegorman residents call for €1.5bn DIT campus plan to go ahead
John Downes, News Investigations Correspondent

Any decision not to proceed with Dublin Institute of Technology’s €1bn-plus move to Grangegorman in north inner-city Dublin risks condemning the area to “further neglect” and should be resisted, local residents have warned.

In a recent letter to Taois*each Brian Cowen, they note that the Bord Snip Nua report advocated the withdrawal of all current funding to the Grangegorman Development Agency (GDA) – about €1.5m – and the amalgamation of Tallaght IT and Blanchardstown IT with DIT.

The report also stated that the withdrawal of funding for the agency would avoid further expenditure on the “planned €1.5bn capital development programme associated with Grangegorman”.

It suggested the state should dispose of the land to generate revenue for the exchequer, and that consideration be given to consolidating DIT on alternative lands, such as those at Tallaght IT.

But writing to Brian Cowen on behalf of local residents, elected GDA board member Pirooz Dáneshmandi said that it is “difficult to see how DIT could fit on the campus of IT Tallaght”.

“This idea is flawed even from a monetary point of view. Apart from the difficulty of finding a buyer, the sale price would be the lowest possible in today’s market. It would be nothing short of giving away a valuable public resource at a bargain basement price.”

“Furthermore, the report does not contain any cost-benefit analysis of not moving DIT to Grangegorman even in economic terms, not to mention the social consequences.

“Our community remains committed to the regeneration of the area and we urge you not to condemn our neighbourhood to further neglect.”

Asked for its views on Bord Snip’s recommendations, the GDA said: “We will await the outcome of this consideration, but remain committed to meeting our current project deadlines.”

However, the Sunday Tribune understands that the board has still not received sanction from the Department of Education to proceed with its draft strategic plan, which was sent to government eight months ago.

According to the GDA’s most recent figures, the overall cost of providing DIT’s core educational facilities on the Grangegorman site is currently estimated at €493m, 60% of which it says will be provided through DIT funds from disposal of property, savings and philanthropy, and DIT’s sports fund.

“All complementary facilities such as student’s accommodation, retail outlets science and industry park facilities will be self-funding and will not require exchequer contributions,” it adds.

[IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4646/32297301.jpg[/IMG

@Devin wrote:

[IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/4646/32297301.jpg[/IMG

fixed your post 🙂

KC – nice one!!

Devin; why are you being so cryptic?

Sorry, yeh, incomplete posting.

The Grangegorman Strategic Plan proposes dumping blocks in front of the pedimented wings of Francis Johnson’s monumental early 19th century former Richmond Asylum :O :O :O

The Grangegorman plan is open for submissions until 7th of December.

Set them back another fifty yards and I’d have no problem with this.
Considering it’s virtually impossible to get a view of this currently derelict building as it stands, reopening the vista in this format seems a welcome development to me.
We’ve already seen historic buildings in Trinity and DCU (to a minor degree) very well integrated with their modern elements.

I think the front of it should be kept free of development. It’s a really great severe monumental elevation that needs a proper setting.

We’ve been so browbeaten that Dublin is insufficiently dense and needs to densify that we are prepared to accept development almost anywhere.

Horrendous. Would it not be logical to put 2 taller blocks flanking the square, creating a… square. Is this random placement of buildings a current trend? Looking at plans of redevelopment of mountjoy and mater appear very similar, wonky angles all over the place, no attempt at a logical streetscape. liebskind street.

If you look at the site’s footprint in the above picture, it appears to have been shaped to fit precisely into the land available.
If they were to go with a traditional square, then the view of the original building would be even further obsccured.
I personally think it would work if as I said above, the buildings to front and back were stepped back another 20 metres and perhaps had a storey or two added to make up what has been lost.
Maybe I am acting as if browbeaten, but the alternative to this project is the continued dereliction of this particular part of disappeared Dublin, and the inevitable situation where this building can no longer be salvaged in any form.

The central building demands symmetry in front of it, anything else is just sloppy ignorant uninformed design. I’m sure a case could be made for a storey or 2 extra on some L shaped buildings to the front in order to create a coherent design.

Its not the easiest site, but use of erratics needs to be controlled for best effect, some of McGarry Ní Eanaigh’s schools work showing this to best effect.
I’m not sure a modernist block treatment with a twist of erratic is an adeauate response here – raising the whole building á la Steve Holl might be.
However, to give credit where its due, the height refers strongly and does not compete, while the scale of the bays attemtps to refer.

Butm given that you’re workign with a stronly axial existing compositino, the design seems to have have learnt nothing from Capability Brown.
It seems a poor response in terms of massing, materials, reference and playing with the main axis and tangential views and approaches.

And of course, there is no use of pitched roofs but we still see the ubiquitous massive overhangs – why, sun screening?
Expect leaks á la Fosters School and disappearing canopies á la Carrickmines Apartments.

ONQ.

@onq wrote:

Its not the easiest site, ……..canopies á la Carrickmines Apartments.

ONQ.

and it’s shiny.

dead duck. it’s been IMF’d

I’d be very surprised if this ever happens – should have been done a decade ago when the property prices of their old sites would have gone a long way to paying for it

had they not sold any of them?

Not as far as I know – and if they did, NAMA would probably own them now anyway 😉

Seems to be some life in it yet – just noted on the Pleanala website that 4 appeals have been lodged against a planning scheme adopted by DCC… http://www.pleanala.ie/news/ZD2005.htm

The SDZ application for Grangegorman is approved by An Bord Pleanala subject to a number of conditions:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0514/500m-dit-campus-at-grangegorman-gets-go-ahead.html

Read the Board’s verdict here http://www.pleanala.ie/news/ZD2005/ZD2005.htm

A good news story.

Great news….hopefully this can proceed apace. Its a little bitter sweet for me….when I was in DIT back in 2001 they were talking about this project be ready to proceed, indeed I’d been reading about it since the late 1990s. Of course it wasn’t to be, but just think, this could have self financed if DIT had sold their existing buildings at the height of the boom. That the didn’t is a reflection of just how inefficient and “political” DIT is as an instution!

On the decision itself……well quelle surprize….ABP allow a huge scheme to sail through but selectively subtract ALL the elements that could be termed highrise. Anybody who tries to maintain that they don’t have a certain agenda is deluded!

C

The pace of work at Grangegorman is picking up. A great aerial photograph of the site from only a matter of weeks ago – mid-January 2014.

http://www.ggda.ie/images/GG_Aerial_Dec_2014.JPG

http://ggda.ie/assets/1D2O6281.jpg

The DIT campus and new Luas line could inject so much more life into this awkwardly located northside district and would draw immediate northside suburbs like Phibsboro and Drumcondra closer to the city proper. At present, there’s just a gaping hole between the North Circular Rd and O’Connell St, the latter of which will never credibly develop until it has a viable hinterland.

If only there was some way of exorcising Dublin Bus from Broadstone.