Foster Place Boozer
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TRINITY COLLEGE Dublin has sought planning permission to convert the ground floor and basement of the former AIB bank in Foster Place, off College Green, into one of the city’s largest pubs – with 1,341sq m (14,434sq ft) of licensed space.
The planning application, lodged on behalf of “The Provost, Fellows and Scholars of the University of Dublin, Trinity College”, envisages turning the double-height Victorian banking hall into a “restaurant and public house” extending back to Anglesea Street.
Permission is also being sought for a shop on the Foster Place frontage, change of use from banking to education for the upper floors, and the removal of a 19th-century bank vault and all 20th-century alterations to the building, which is a protected structure.
It is understood that the proposed pub would not be run by Trinity but leased to a publican or restaurateur in the event that permission were granted. The upper floors of the building would be converted to office space for university staff.
The scheme is being opposed by Temple Bar Cultural Trust (TBCT), a subsidiary of Dublin City Council with a remit to manage the area as Dublin’s “cultural quarter”. It claims the creation of a “super-pub” on Foster Place would create a “drinking gateway” to Temple Bar.
“Temple Bar Cultural Trust would have serious concerns about this, as there are already three large pubs spilling out onto Anglesea Street in the immediate vicinity,” it says. “Yet another licensed premises would further intensify this already critical mass of drinking establishments.”
Its submission, drafted by Seán Harrington Architects, says there has been general agreement for the past 10 years that the large number, size and type of licensed premises in the Temple Bar area has been “problematic” and, for this reason, more pubs are effectively banned.
Urging city planners to refuse permission, the submission notes that the council’s own policy in its development plan is “to avoid an over-concentration of large pubs in any particular area and to encourage the provision in the city centre of a mix of entertainment venues”.
Concluding, the TBCT submission says its view of the Trinity College plan was that it would be “contrary to the aims and objectives of the Dublin City Council Development Plan 2005-2011 as set out above, and we would request that the application is refused permission”.
A spokesman for the college, which bought the AIB building in 2001, could not be contacted yesterday.
A decision on the application is due by August 26th.
This article appears in the print edition of the Irish Times
the DCC ref is 3353/09 – actually lodged on 26th June. Last day for observations is 4th August
I know I have lost this argument before on another thread; but I find this depressing, I mean I always like to see the college being sensible about owning and exploiting city center property and I agree a pub is a public use and Forster Place could do with anything that animates it, but these old banking halls, surely they deserve something better, something more civic, than a monster pub. I used to walk through this banking hall, some of the office that the college uses above it were accessed through the old hall and it is lovely.
Originally there was talk into turning the banking hall into a single-point of access front desk for a wide variety of administrative functions: it was argued against this that that wouldn’t be a public use, though it would presumably include the accommodation office which is used by tourists and conference people in the summer. I don’t know the layout, but perhaps it could have housed the college collections, with a cafe in the banking hall and the Weingreen museum and the geological museum and the good pictures, etc, in rooms around this: maybe that would have required the retention of 5/6 Forster Place.
Anyway, its an income I guess.
This was in Tribune and Biz Post a few weeks ago, details of objections by publicans in the area on the back page of main section of Sunday Times yesterday.
A good restaurant rather trhan a boozer for this site I think – the last thing we need is another superpub
@Rory W wrote:
A good restaurant rather trhan a boozer for this site I think – the last thing we need is another superpub
Why not have both? The Porterhouse in Temple Bar is an example of a very good drinking establishment which is accompanied with a good reputation for the food that is on offer.
What would good old Trinity call the pub, though? The Edmund Burke perhaps?
Buttery 2.0?
The Brown Study
@Cathal Dunne wrote:
What would good old Trinity call the pub, though? The Edmund Burke perhaps?
They will lease it out; I think they already have, pending planning.
The plan is for the Wright Group to lease it out, subject to planning
@notjim wrote:
They will lease it out; I think they already have, pending planning.
But they should have a go at naming it. There are so many illustrious alumni which can be honoured by having a fine watering hole named after them.
Anyone got any internal photos of the building in question?
There was a favourable letter in the Irish Times about this proposal during this week and last. This bodes well.
Whatever about a pub but I just hope the botchers don’t get their hands on it and gut the interior (like the Ulster Bank across the street) The former banks, now the Grand Central and the Bank pubs aren’t bad jobs.
any chance that we get rid of the taxi reststop at Foster Place?
given the absolute balls they made of college green i doubt it
It’s been refused – <a href="http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3353/09&theTabNo=2&backURL=Search%20Criteria%20>%203353/09
@Devin wrote:
It’s been refused – <a href="http://www.dublincity.ie/swiftlg/apas/run/WPHAPPDETAIL.DisplayUrl?theApnID=3353/09&theTabNo=2&backURL=Search%20Criteria%20>%203353/09
Shame!
Good result…. still doesnt answer the question of what to do with Foster’s Place though
What on earth Trinity College are at, as a public institute of education, effectively one step behind an arm of the State in terms of cultural patronage, whoring their flagship properties out as upmarket superpubs is absolutely beyond me. Clearly not content with destroying Pearse Street, apparently they also see fit to extend their degrading influence over College Green and Anglesea Street too. It’s nothing short of astounding they see fit to do this, and yet another damning indictment of just how low standards in public and civic life plummeted over the course of the Celtic Tiger years – with the State also flogging off every asset left, right and centre under the guidance of a couple of notorious heads amongst their ranks.
Where are the Art History department on this? It’s being done in their name.
And please can we move this to the Foster Place thread. I don’t know what the recent spawning of scrappy new threads is about.
Easy there Grahamh, you’ll do yourself an aneurysm!
It’s been refused anyhow, so chill.
On the upside, this has brought up the debate on Foster Place again, and its perenially lost potential as a part of the city centre. Taxis, Starbucks and poor light a viable public space do not make! (Nor does another Temple Bar Pub)
Maybe with College Green’s newly elevated pedestrian status the city council will turn its attention to this lost soul?
@foremanjoe wrote:
College Green’s newly elevated pedestrian status
lol – oh you and your dry humour.
I though that might get a chuckle.
Some of the documents submitted as part of the planning application are very interesting, expecially the photographic surveys.
http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00274178.pdf
http://www.dublincity.ie/AnitePublicDocs/00274175.pdf
@GrahamH wrote:
And please can we move this to the Foster Place thread. I don’t know what the recent spawning of scrappy new threads is about.
Agreed. The huge single subject threads are great and are what puts this forum on the internet “map” (i.e. high up in any Google search). It’s a bit confusing when threads are subsequently merged or split so it should be done quickly before the new (duplicate) threads take on a life of their own. Is Paul reading this?
@GrahamH wrote:
What on earth Trinity College are at, as a public institute of education, effectively one step behind an arm of the State in terms of cultural patronage, whoring their flagship properties out as upmarket superpubs is absolutely beyond me
.Well, given that they got rid of a pub in the Buttery, this would just be bringing Trinity back to a position which existed before for quite some time. The revenue from the pub could also be ploughed back into investment in college facilities and services. Given that Trinity is very space-confined, using a pub as a means of financing new space for faculties mightn’t be such a bad thing.
@Cathal Dunne wrote:
Well, given that they got rid of a pub in the Buttery, this would just be bringing Trinity back to a position which existed before for quite some time.
Well just to be clear Cathal this is different from the Buttery, that was a facility for students, this isn’t: all that has happened is that the college has leased some property, it isn’t a college bar, it is a bar on college property, like Kennedy’s.
- foremanjoe wrote:I actually think starbucks has been a good thing for Fosters place. It begins to illustrate how nice it could be with the few seats outside at the side. Great views out to college green and the bank. It could be a lot worse.
I agree about the pub tho, especially an overscaled version like the others on Dame st. Its hard to know what to do with it.
@reddy wrote:
I actually think starbucks has been a good thing for Fosters place. It begins to illustrate how nice it could be with the few seats outside at the side. Great views out to college green and the bank. It could be a lot worse.
Ah you’re right, I was only trying to be anti-capitalist-chic in having a go at Starbucks. Anything that encourages a civilized use of the area is a good thing
(I feel guilty discussing Foster Place on this thread now, I don’t want to annoy the pedantic members of our community!) 😮
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