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  • #752644
    lexington
    Participant

    There was something brutish about the original Dundalk S.C. – and when Long Walk opened, that was a family day out!!!

    For any redevelopment opportunity, it’s location affords it astonishing potential – but will it be used to effect? The spate of recent retail development in this region as a whole – by extension, including Drogheda (i.e. Scotch Hall) – seems to be a little overwhelming. Now I understand the issues of Dublin’s catchment proximity and commuter values – but is it sustainable? I can’t remember the name of the new planned S.C. for Dundalk, but it seems pretty extensive. Is viability a truth when other S.C.’s in the town end up closing in part response? Sure timelines dictate the alternating pattern of S.C. sustainaibility – but was Dundalk S.C. and LongWalk’s time nigh or simply speed up by these impending developments?

    S.C. in any community provide interesting socio-economic instruments and their development is usually a reflection of a society/community’s development (e.g. economic boom in Cork = Mahon Point S.C., Academy Street, Cornmarket Street, Ballincollig S.C. and a number of other big ones under plan) – but with Dundalk it seems the creation of one, at the expense of another???

    What are planners actually thinking?



    That’s actually interesting Paul, it would seem the old way of Irish planning/thinking was to rip up the rail-line and put down a road – in retrospect, the rail-line could provide a valuable asset (plus some adjustments) to the S.C. as a development site given the disaster that is Irish traffic. As a site, the railway line could play an important turnaround for the area and utilise Dundalk’s history and existing railway infastructure to breathe new life into the old system and town. Does anyone have the foresight? Either way, I’ll always remember that line as the one that brought those poor pigs to their finally squealing place (by the way, is that still there???) 😉

    #752645
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Don’t think so – ah the olden days when rashers came from pigs, thank goodness they come from supermarkets these days – done away with all that nastiness 😀

    Yes Paul the Greenore line was taken up recently. Calls were made for it to be used as an amenity area/natural walkway though the town, but naturally the road option proved way too attractive. An inner relief road or somesuch is going in I believe, in combination with the evential demolition of the notorius Hill St bridge and the probable installation of a large roundabout.

    The scale of this whole site is truly vast – if the sports pitch to the rear of the centre is also aquired the whole place is large enough for a new community, slap bang next to the town centre. The potential for a sustainable high density residential community here is huge – it would inject so much life into the town. The site a few metres away on the other side of the bridge is also vast, running way out to the railway station.
    The potential here to redefine Dundalk cannot be underestimated – how this space is developed will in no small way determine the future of the town way into the future.

    What you say about the retail chasing about the town is just what i’ve been thinking for quite a while Lexington – personally I see little need for this huge new centre in the Ramparts considering the centres the town already has. Without a doubt the Long Walk is going to be transformed into a backwater space, and maybe even return to the wasteland it was in 1990.

    The new centre in the Ramparts is called ‘The Marshes’, and the flagship Penneys in the LW are moving out to it, and Dunnes Stores new national flagship is also going to be located there – so perhaps their Park St store will close also.
    The Penneys move is going to hit the LW very significantly – only Heatons are moving in to take its place I believe.
    To the extent it may well have to redevelop to accommodate larger stores. The idea even five years ago of the Long Walk having to redevelop, if not maybe even close in the long term, would have seemed unbelieveable.

    There is a certain logic in developing the Marshes in that all unit sizes in both existing centres are minute, catering for local retailers – whereas the Marshes is attracting Easons, Boots, A Wear and all the rest of them – all of which simply cannot be catered for at present. It’s a great shame the town’s traditional streets aren’t absorbing these retailers – they’re capable of doing it.
    I think there is a genuine need for larger units to accomodate British mulitples, but there’s no doubt that the anchor tenants are moving about like pieces on a chess board for purely economic reasons. It has to stop with The Marshes.

    #752646
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Well I was innocently taking a few pics of the Cathedral the other day, only to notice something in the corner of my eye.
    Looks like St Patrick’s has a new competitor on the Dundalk skyline 😮

    The new ‘The Marshes’ shopping centre to the rear on Ramparts Road :rolleyes:

    Castle Howard comes to Dundalk.

    …only this is no Vanbrughian theatrical fantasy, but rather that of a large developer consortium – as evidenced by the arrival of the porticos the other day:

    (apologies for the poor images – the usual am-I-going-to-be-on-the-news brigade were somewhat off-putting)

    …and the insertion of the imitation Pompeian remains:

    Can’t wait to see the finished article in November!

    #752647
    lexington
    Participant

    Interesting…

    …it seems to be taking something of a mildly different approach to the average ‘warehouse’ modern Irish shopping centre. A little more mosque-ish. Will wait to see the finished detail – a positive addition to Dundalk’s skyline???

    #752648
    GrahamH
    Participant

    I’d say no for some reason….

    …though it maybe postmodern ironic or somesuch in which case we have a masterpiece in the making.

    #752649
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Also some pics of the Imperial Hotel in all it’s ‘refurbished’ splendour – the grand total of nothing was done to its exterior above ground floor level – despite a whopping €14 million being spent on the scheme.

    It still dominates the town as ever with the plant room on top, as well as Park Street itself:

    Indeed such was the superficial level of renewal, the 70s aluminums weren’t even replaced in the upper two floors!
    (PVC was put in a few years ago on the lower ones)

    And instead of the impact of the plant room being negated by the local authority, it was made even worse by the addition of an astonishing array of phone antannae in recent times. This is what constitutes planning in Ireland in 2005; a disgraceful state of affairs.

    What’s always made me laugh about the Imperial is that unlike in Dublin or other ‘civilised’ places ;), when the Imperial was planned for the very heart of Dundalk’s historic centre, the building’s set-back was put at the front of the building rather than the rear!

    It towers to six storeys above the muddling little 19th century buildings on Park St, yet falls away to four storeys to the back – what should be at the front!
    Challenging convention seems to be something of a pastime up north 🙂

    #752650
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Graham,

    just out of interest when was the hotel painted?

    #752651
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Ah the colour of the Imperial – a long-held fascination with the people of Dundalk, a North-Eastern version of the Eiffel Tower or Fourth Bridge colouring debates 😀

    As far back as I remember when first coming in contact with the hotel, it was a dirty green colour in the late 80s, then I think it was orange and/or pink at a later stage, followed by a distinguished cream which was by far the best recently, only for the current Celtic Tiger obligatory sunny yellow to appear about 2 years ago perhaps (when the PVCs went in).
    The side elevation has got a lick of paint in the refurbishment – the front may have too.

    #752652
    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Some new info on Dundalk
    http://www.irish-architecture.com/buildings_ireland/louth/dundalk/index.html

    Will be finished this evening….

    #752653
    GrahamH
    Participant

    Hmmm – which is which 🙂

    Isn’t Carroll’s just a fabulous building? (it’s never going to be known under any other name :))

    It’s something you’d never in a million years expect in the far flung reaches of Ireland, and a building most people are probably completely unaware of even existing – it is reminiscent of a structure in a US suburban business park: a sprawling low-rise pile of glass and steel surrounded by perfectly manicured lawns.

    Imagine coming from the UK or other more developed countries in 1969, and suddenly hitting upon this striking piece of architecture in the middle of nowhere in north-eastern Ireland!
    Especially considering DKIT next door didn’t even exist, none of the industrial estate to the rear had been developed, and the miles of ribbon housing that now flank it on both sides hadn’t even started. – it was out there on its own, a magnificent introduction to the town from the south.

    It has aged exceptionally well, as has the surrounding landscape which is as important as the building itself. It has some spectacular tree specimens, and the lawns are as neat as they were nearly 40 years ago. The only thing is the shrubbery lining the Dublin Road has been allowed get out of hand and is now obscuring views of the building.

    It’s an under-rated building in the town, though appreciation for it is gradually growing I think. Saying that, there has always been a liking for the fabulous sculpture to the front:

    …which stands in a glass-like pool of water.

    The two ‘control towers’ 🙂 on top make for very striking pieces of architecture when viewed from certain angles – they settle neatly beside each other in some views, beautifully composing the building with the lower storey splaying out in different directions underneath in an almost comforting fashion, like the towers are standing guard over the complex below.
    And the main views from the N1 are equally well served by them – they line up strikingly with the the storey below, as well as add interest to the skyline.

    Miesian corners are of course beautifully featured (this is Ronnie Tallon afterall :))

    …and the uppermost course of glazing is continued the whole way round the building – not just the office section but the factory too, over its lovely beige brickwork, tieing the whole scheme together into a whole – an inspired move when one considers how disjointed the complex could have been with the factory element seperate from administration as is so often the case.

    And the reflections of the early morning and late evening sun in its acres of glazing are just to die for – not to mention a very rare mist that shrouds the lower storey on magical winter mornings if you’re lucky enough to catch it – happens only on the morning of a full blue moon 🙂

    #752654
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Carrolls were until the 1980’s one of the most progressive if not carcinogenic firms in the Country, Don Carroll had a keen interest in the built environment and both the Dundalk facility and their HQ on Grand Parade are a testiment to his commitment.

    Is the Carrolls complex protected or will it fall victim to the rush to construct yet more retail in Dundalk?

    #752655
    GrahamH
    Participant

    It is indeed protected, and listed as being of international importance – not very many county development plans have this title featured amongst their pages.

    Carroll’s were without a doubt one of the best employers in the country, a sad day is about to come now with their closure – but a good day on another front.

    #752656
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    It is only a pity that Don Carroll wasn’t involved in a business that had a more certain future he did a hell of a lot of good work for Built Heritage through the Irish Heritage Trust in the Early 1980’s.

    I’m happy to see that the plant is protected so many industrial structures have fallen through the cracks all over Europe in over the years, this one is an absolute cracker in its simplicity and use of top spec (then) contemporary materials.

    #752657
    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Pity more firms weren’t like Carrolls – two great buildings indeed.

    #752658
    GrahamH
    Participant

    There is a major BUT though (both puns unintended :)) – a huge development to the rear of the building is proposed by the ever-expanding DKIT, which includes a plan for a 12 storey hotel no less, amongst other slightly more collegiate buildings.
    Where exactly the 12-storey is going I don’t know, but it’d be worth a check out. Certainly the building’s isolated days are numbered.

    As for Carrolls dying off, a pity indeed – it seems all of its diversification plans were fraught with failure from the outset of the cigarette war. The company has left a fine architecural legacy, from the flagship 67-69 factory in Dundalk, to Grand Parade in Dublin, to the old factory on Clanbrassil St, and its striking Edwardian office building there too.
    Were there any others?

    #752659
    -Donnacha-
    Participant

    Very interested to see developments shaping Market Square; it’s in terrible need of a facelift – perhaps, a public park instead of the ridiculous fountainscape would animate the adjoining buildings. However, I have a question to ask which has be niggling me for sometime. What plans, if any, are in the grapevine for Park Street? There was speculation a couple of years ago of pedestrianising the street; does anyone know anything?

    #752660
    GrahamH
    Participant

    I heard that too about Park Street parkstreet :). It’s a nice idea (in a restricted fashion) considering it is already a strongly pedestrian area. I’d like to see it happen along the stretch from Dunnes up Earl St, it could generate a really lovely atmosphere here. The traffic implications could be difficult though, it being such a major artery with two roads linking from the Ramparts also to consider.
    This Imperial area only feels cramped though because of all the on-street parking. If this was removed and the pavements widened it would help no end.
    At least further south there’s lots of space for both traffic and pedestrians to mingle quite happily.

    Here’s a lovely Victorian on Park Street beside the old distiguished Bank of Ireland – the famous incorrectly spelled ‘Pheonix Bar’ 🙂

    It’s got a fine set of original sashes with fantastic shimmering cylinder/sheet glass – wonderful survivors.

    The development featured before for Market Square is underway already – the site has been cleared of all that junk!

    #752661
    eamoss
    Participant

    The new ‘The Marshes’ shopping centre opened today disappointed not all shops were open but it is very nice and its very big.

    #752662
    Paul Clerkin
    Keymaster

    Shudder, it looks like a fake English countrytown market building

    #752663
    GrahamH
    Participant

    heheheh – oh but you haven’t seen so much as a crumb of this place, it is truly staggering on so many levels.
    More pics soon………

Viewing 20 posts - 41 through 60 (of 138 total)
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