Dun Laoghaire Baths

and..

the whole issue/debate about high rise in Dublin has reached a crisis point. Dublin needs taller beautiful buildings. and residential ones at that. look at belfast liverpool etc etc. Irish firms even build those – huge projects on the london docklands. i was told that the an taisce and georginan society etc are absolute fascists about this. well history will not remember these myopic fools kindly. let’s get high people, let’s get high!

whose quote made the indo article
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=45&si=1019630&issue_id=9570

go to the end of it (free registration)

Hey ! Just saw my quote in the Indo Article. What’s this about free registration !!!!?????

Here’s Kevin Myers utterly moronic contribution to the debate. From the man who called the Carrickmines campaign “a diseased exercise in ancestor-worship”. Preserve our heritage … but only the bits Mr Myers like.

The Dún Laoghaire seafront is one of the best-loved features of the entire island of Ireland, and for many reasons, says Kevin Myers
Its setting has been carved by nature, with the Wicklow hills behind it, before it St George’s Channel, and beyond that, and visible on good days, the mountains of Wales, cousins to the Wicklow hills to which they were once joined.
But it was the hand of 19th century man which really made Dún Laoghaire what it is, with the railway line from the centre of Dublin, and the creation of the port by the great Scots engineer John Rennie: and perhaps it is in his honour that the adjoining Scotsman’s Bay is so named. With the arrival of the ferries and the rail connection with Dublin, an elegant Regency and Victorian waterfront was built, with a brace of mile-long piers stretching out into the bay.
Two churches were built to grace the town’s skyline, and from one of them the Angelus bell used to sound each evening to welcome returning ship-borne emigrants and visitors. The ferries no longer arrive shortly after six as once they did, and only those who have slid across the bay in the evening light and heard the bells tolling across the shimmering waters can know the bewitching melancholy they aroused in the hearts of those coming home to Ireland upon the brimming tide.
Dún Laoghaire is one of the most beautiful places in Ireland. It is beautiful to see from the sea and beautiful to see from the shore, and at times it can rival the Bay of Naples or Capri in its enchantment. So it is quite simply past all belief that Dún Laoghaire Council plans to dump a 5.5 acre apartment complex on land which for the most part – some four acres – is to be claimed from the sea in Scotsman’s Bay. And in contrast to the modest, two and three storey roofline which characterises most of the waterfront, the complex will, with a glass tower, reach 10 storeys high.
Moreover, it will not be set back from the sea, but will be an intrusion into it: where there are now waters, there will be an apartment block rising like Croke Park, adjoining the spit of land where the derelict baths now are. Indeed, it has been a desire to make something of the old baths which became the starting point for the entire wretched project.
But if it was simply a desire to put the baths to some fresh and profitable use, why not open a shopping mall, or a heliport, or an office block, or put the Bertie Bowl there? Why not place the national incinerator in Scotsman’s Bay, or perhaps our first nuclear power station? If a disregard for the waterfront is to be a defining feature of any development of the old baths, why halt at half measures? Why not let Michael O’Leary build his own transatlantic air terminal there? On the other hand, there could of course be some modest, low-cost development of the baths: they could be turned into a maritime park, which would be appropriate to the scale and the nature of the town. For Dún Laoghaire is primarily a residential suburb, which has no separate existence independent of the metropolis. It is not an industrial city like Bilbao, which was visited by a delegation of Dún Laoghaire councillors, and which apparently has become the inspiration for the Scotsman’s Bay project.
This is rather like councillors from Belmullet visiting Venice for a few tips on how to build a Lido, or representatives from Birr travelling to Florence to plan the future of their town. But we do not live in such a world. Apples are not the role models for turnips: oranges do not aspire to be teapots; Dún Laoghaire wastes its time, and squanders its seafront jewels, attempting to emulate Bilbao.
To be sure, turning the old baths into a park will not net the council as much money as the 180 view-blocking apartments, which will probably sell for about €1 million each. But then, keeping the Book of Kells does not earn Trinity College Dublin as much money as it would get from selling it: we could dispatch the President to Blanchardstown and sell the Áras to a Texan, thereby turning a tidy penny. Moreover, Merrion Square is a terrible waste of precious city-centre space: why not knock down those unproductive Georgian buildings, and give planning permission for 40-storey offices and flats complexes, alongside the even taller Leinster Towers, where the old Dáil used to sit in that ghastly old Leinster House?
There is a bespoke and accusatory sneer for those who want to protect what already exists, and who wish that developers would leave well enough alone. It is that they are reactionaries who are opposed to change. So be it. For was the founder of architectural conservationism, John Betjeman, not so abused when he campaigned to save the famous St Pancras Arch? Were not the opponents of the Dublin Corporation scheme to turn the Grand and Royal Canals into motorways similarly traduced? Are defenders of the modest and the quaint against the garish and the new not invariably so ridiculed? The truth is that Dún Laoghaire is not some exotic Iberian city set on a Mediterranean shore, but a largely British seafront town set on the Irish Sea. If the Dún Laoghaire flats-complex project goes ahead, and Scotsman’s Bay becomes Scotsman’s Plaza, then the curse of both John Rennie, and of future generations, will pursue the perpetrators down the years to come.

From the Irish Independent, 16th May 2005

FORMER Education Minister Niamh Bhreathnach hit out last night at campaigners who claimed a council proposal for an eight-storey building will destroy the Victorian vista of the waterfront in Dun Laoghaire.

“Queen Victoria is dead! She didn’t even look out of her carriage when she visited the place. What we need is a living environment for the people,” said Cllr Bhreathnach, cathaoirleach of Dun Laoghaire Rathdown Council.

“This insane campaign against the proposals is by people who want to keep Dun Laoghaire dreary,” she declared. About 1,200 people held a protest march yesterday against the plan for the eight-storey development. Members of the Save Our Seafront (SOS) pressure group claimed the proposed €140m development on the site of the old public swimming baths would destroy the Victorian character of the waterfront. The plan would set a dangerous precedent for private high-rise developments along the public foreshore, they claimed.

A robust defence of the proposal was made last night by Cllr Bhreathnach who said the plan included a public maritime park, providing indoor swimming, measures for fighting erosion, and bringing exciting facilities for locals and visitors. She told the Irish Independent that people needed far more than just tea-rooms and Victorian vistas.The plan will be on public display from May 24. The development would include a new public park with rollerblade facilities and ice-skating in winter.

Access to swimming in the sea would be enhanced by the provision of three new public swimming areas, an improved public walkway along the seafront and the private apartments would help pay for the development, she said.

“I’m not a former minister for Education for nothing. These are facilities that will benefit the area’s children,” she said.

Richard Boyd Barrett, convenor of the SOS group, told the rally outside the town hall it would dramatically alter views of the Sandycove Martello tower described in James Joyce’s ‘Ulysses.’

The proposals include a 10-storey viewing tower and the filling-in of more than five acres of the sea. Providing million euro private apartments would damage the public character of the area, he said. Green Party Councillor Kealin Ireland said its bulk and scale was phenomenally large and it would “obliterate views of Scotsman’s Bay and Sandycove Point”.

Alan O’Keeffe

I really have to laugh at Breathnach’s comments with regards to Queen Victoria only 3 years since the Council endorsed the reconstruction of a monument to her glory! It seems that its rededication to the workers who were killed building the harbour was really only an after-thought!

Anyway, as Thomond Park said, the design looks very dated. I personally however believe the in-fill of land here is quite a good idea. It would link the east pier to the Newtown Smith green quit well. This green area itself is reclaimed land. However, I wonder how high up the new piece of green would be. The corner area between the seashore and the pier gets a real bashing from the Northerly gales in the winter! The shape of the trees along the road in this area are a good piece of evidence in this regard.

The scale of the building looks too bulky though. The present baths even makes the area look quite cluttered due to the thinness of the road in this area and the footpath on the other side of the road. It might be a good idea to continue the railway covering down further towards Teddy’s Icecream shop to open the area up a bit (realistically not going to happen is suppose!).

Here’s a quite interesting discussion on the issue between Eamonn Gilmore and Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown Senior Architect and Planner Dr Eugene Gibbons/Gribbons on Pat Kenny last Tuesday.
Pat having an active interest in the topic (for obvious reasons :)) makes it that bit more interesting.

Scroll to around 42 mins into the programme for the discussion:

http://www.rte.ie/rams/radio/latest/Tue/rte-todaywithpatkenny.smil

there is something to be said about the councils decision not to go ahead with the proposed 19 storey development. indeed it would have looked striking and would have given the port an international favour. but i have to agree with the fact that it would have closed off the area to the public. i have seen in foreign countries how local people and local visitors have become marginalised because of ‘posh’ developments.

@Southside People wrote:

Seafront split shock
05 Jul 2005
THE massive public campaign against the proposal to build an eight-storey development on Dun Laoghaire seafront has taken a new twist with campaigners now protesting against each other.A spat between members of the Save Our Seafront group resulted in a contingent walking out of a recent meeting and setting up their own group, Conserve Dun Laoghaire.

The break-away group claim SOS has been &#8220]http://www.southsidepeople.ie/index.php?option=news&task=viewarticle&sid=1195[/url]

TP suspected this was on the cards for quite some time

Here’s the concluding paragraph of a piece I wrote for the Irish Times on 2 July 2005. The full article is at the link below

Something has to happen to the Dún Laoghaire Baths. Undoubtedly, the site should be developed, but at a modest scale. The opportunity to provide a building that respects the scale and grain of town should not be squandered. The current proposal should be put to one side. The Council should draw up various options for the site, all options should be examined, and indicative costs should be provided. The public should then be asked for their views prior to any decision being made. Proper planning is crucial, and there is only one opportunity to get it right.

I’d welcome any further thoughts on the issue,

Ciarán

http://www.ciarancuffe.com/Writings/NewspaperArticles/N050702D.Baths.DunLaoghaire.htm