Dublinspirations

Sounds very interesting. Is there a charge for the report? I looked on the antaisce website nd there’s no mention(!). Would love to read more.

Extraordinary how our field of vision has diminished in 120 years 🙂 And who do those people think they are cluttering the place up like that?!
Francis Firth took a similar ghostly photo a little later in the 1890s – the difference is certainly marked even taking into account pedestrians. And today it’s a view you often don’t see beacause of the buses parked/pulling up on Grafton St.
At least decent traffic signals are going in at the moment in place of the terrible old ones – here’s hoping the sequencing will be tweaked too.

It sounds like a very interesting report – I’d like to get hold of it too.

Thanks Devin – might wander over soon

And another mention for it in todays Independent…so plenty of good publicity. A response from the City Manager or Lord Mayor would be very interesting.

Street sign clutter in rural areas was a top story on BBC news this morning. They showed a bend in the road, that was marked by 20 signs each with yellow backgrounds. Here’s a link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/05/04/nclut04.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/05/04/ixhome.html

I was surprised but pleased that this was newsworthy.

On the subject of street furniture clutter in Dublin and College Green, here’s a 3d viz of Dame Street without street furniture.

Dublin as part of a DOOM scenario

No people either

The trees are also excluded as examples of ‘clutter’

I think in College Green’s case the trees are ‘clutter’ … they manage to block views of trinity from dame street and the bank of ireland from grafton street – they’re just in the wrong place, dividing what is quite a large space and sure grattan might as well not be there at all.

As far as i know they are london plane’s … not a good idea to plant plane trees in a group …

I agree trees have a place but on vistas that have a t-junction type pattern that they generally constitute clutter and in this case the architectural quality is so high that the buildings need no embelishment.

The Ulster Bank looks particularly stark in that image, does it normally blend into the streetscape better?

No, it really does look that bad from this location – just usually there’s buses blocking the view.
That’s about the only decent thing the trees here do too, they hide the view of the Ulster Bank from College St.

Agreed that the trees are inappropriate for the location; they aren’t needed. Saying that, the row of three of the same that run along the entrance to Grafton St in front of Fox’s look well I think – and they add a pleasant maturity to the area.

An interesting view you’ve posted there Frank – whatever about the absence of all forms of life :), how the vista up to Trinity is opened up is quite impressive. It’s always something of a let-down in the summer when you look up from Dame St and all you see is a giant bush of leaves hovering over the slight mound at the entrance to College Green, concealing Trinity.

The potential for a piazza-like space here is blatently evident – so much so it appears as if the place was originally planned as such, like one of the great squares of St Petersburg, a city from which I’ve often thought the West Front could have been plucked right out of – got a lovely eastern European feel to it.

If the trees are ever removed, the problems with Grattan’s monument will truly become apparent – there’s some serious cracking going on with the plinth that needs attention.
Also two replicas of the famous seahorse lampposts should definitely be cast for the site to replace the two that were removed from what I can gather in the 40s/early 50s. Then again, surely even then they wouldn’t have been thrown out or dumped, they would’ve been quite valuable. They must be kicking around somewhere, either in a Corpo yard or someone’s back garden more likely :rolleyes:
There should be some record as to what happened to them…

Im sure I remember there being 4 lamps here in the 1980s. Maybe I am wrong. Agreed Grattan (and Moore) need some TLC and perhaps they are next on the list. Im not sure what is going on with the Davitt monument as work started, then stopped even though the OPW announced it would be completed by spring.

There is so much cluter in this area. They very least that can be done is a reduction (elimination) of the street signage and the installation of some new lighting. Im not entirely tured off by the trees but if they go it should be in the context of the whole Green being pedestrianised. I would hate to see the area devoid of greenery though….. it being a Green and all.

Agreed about the need for greenery – of a lower level though, and of a kind that flanks the space rather than dominates it.

The lampposts definitely disappeared before the 80s. Lots of pics depict them as such – indeed there’s loads of interesting pics of College Green from the olden days worthy of posting – must dig some out…

This pic from around the 1870s shows they’re not original either!

Did anyone notice on that pic that there is only a two story building to the left of where tha present-day Ulster Bank stands?!!!

What view? 🙂
I’ve always been of two minds about those trees – from under the BoI looking over I think Moore looks great under the canopy now they’ve been trimmed back – with the sun dappling down through. But then this view of the portico from College St is completely wrecked by them…

Here’s a couple of other pics, first from the 1880s, showing the newly installed lampposts with incadescent fittings evident:

(As well a replacement one-storey building shown a little more clearly)

Also a pic from just a few weeks ago – look at that ghastly signage. College Green really is a shambles in terms of the amount of street furniture, and its quality, and that of the paviong and road surfaces which are appalling. It is strange how such an important place in the city is still in a 70s time-warp.

@Devin wrote:

Could it be the projecting entrance bit of a higher building? I must look at some other old Coll Gn photos & see if I can see…

Had a look at that group of three trees on their own outside Fox’s/Thomas Cook’s – they’re nice]http://img83.echo.cx/img83/1935/90s2a8wa.jpg[/IMG]

Also, in these winter/summer views (albeit winter a few years ago), notice the difference trees in bloom make to the view of the House of Lords/BoI portico from College Street.

What is most striking to me about those images is the lack of the two concrete lamp-posts on front of the facade of what is now the Westin. I remember these being discussed before by Graham Hickey? Anyway, unless I am imagining it, it would seem that they were replaced with lamps resembling earlier styles!

They were yes – that’s what that thread was about!
It seems they were put there directly as a result of the Westin’s restoration – to ‘fit in’ with the heritage look on that side of the street.
College St now has a completely disjointed public lighting scheme – 30s lampposts on one side, 2003 silver replicas on the other, and 80s ulititarian tat at the top in front of the BoI!

I’ve been gathering some info and pics about these lampposts and others in the city centre – hope to have something soon…

Agreed – I think they look particularly well in this area, a little enclave of posts 🙂
These were one of my first memories of the city, coming over a bridge and then ‘those’ lampposts and ‘that black building’ (facade of Trinty’s accomodation block) – combined they scared the hell out of me for some reason, they just looked really sinister and frightening 😮

Annnnyway, the remaining ones shouldn’t be touched, indeed they need to be restored. Fitted out with bright halogen bulbs they’d be much more effective at lighting the streets than most of the stock at the moment.

Here’s one of those two replica posts going in in 2003:

On the subject of the trees in College Green… those trees really need to be removed from BOI.

This pic that I posted in the O’C thread will show how intrusive they are. It’s impossible to get a decent picture of BOI present day. The clutter!

To replace those lamps with reproduction ‘heritage’ lamps displays a very warped sense of history. I wonder should we question the CC about where they went to?

On one level it is warped indeed, but I think it is important to note that these silver lampposts are much more than just heritage pieces of furniture: they are as much a part of Dublin as red telephone boxes are to London. And I presume that in some areas of that city brand new boxes have also been installed over the years in places where needed not because they’re olde worlde, but because they embody the city in a manner like nothing else.

Likewise in Dublin, in fairness to the City Council, the erection of these lampposts in appropriate places is generally executed in this spirit rather than in that of a yearning for the days of yore as is generally the case with pastiche concoctions.
Saying that, there is absolutely no defence for what has happened on College Street and D’Olier Street – they were/are the last remnants of a piece of street furniture once seen all over the city centre and ought to be/have been preserved in situ, and as a complete entity.

That’s a great pic you posted there Devin, I never noticed that very fine curved detail on the side elevation of the arches before – very Art Deco.
Note all the dirt accumulated on the floor of the lamps 🙂

With the Port Tunnel set to open in a few months time and the end of the HGV nightmare on the City Centre Quays how much attention will the main Chapter of this report receive does the forum think?

you won’t see the attention to detail necesary to bring improvements in dublin unless you had a minister for dublin , or a mayor with some power , or a council that could tax you to some degree

A few more bins and seats on the quays. Job done.

@Morlan wrote:

A few more bins and seats on the quays. Job done.

Rofl:D

Dublinspirations is an excellent publication + one that An Taisce should rightfully be proud of.

Since the boardwalk has been constructed, I reckon theres a case to be made that the river side foot path should be removed, which would then mean that the path in front of the shops and buildings could be doubled in width: Any takers?

Unfortunately, to get back to TP’s point, I would guess that 90% of vehicluar traffic along the quays is not HGV. That traffic is likely not only to remain, but thanks to this governments crap car-favoured policies, is in fact probably going to get worse 😡

Sorry to piss on the parade 🙁

H

@hutton wrote:

Since the boardwalk has been constructed, I reckon theres a case to be made that the river side foot path should be removed, which would then mean that the path in front of the shops and buildings could be doubled in width: Any takers?

Interesting idea. The boardwalk should be raised to the same height as the footpath. As it stands, it is not overlooked and leaves passers by in fear that they will be mugged. Nothing unique to Dublin; if you venture down for a stroll by the banks of the Tiber, you are at risk from Italian toilet-traders and the like.

Yes that is an interesting idea. I would favour simply pedestrianising the entire length of the liffey north and south , with one lane kept for buses.

Although alot of planting would be needed to make the liffey a nice place to be . !! ! it is usually very windy due to the tunnelling effect of the buildings either side of it , in my experience.

Though there are a great many mature trees already along the northern quays at least.
It’s an interesting idea to extend the inner pavement alright, but is there demand for it? On Eden Quay yes, but moving westwards fewer and fewer people use it – at the end of the day everyone wants to walk along the river where possible. Unless they’ve a destination on the inner quay, and let’s face it there’s very few of them, people will migrate towards the water.

From an architectural/aesthethic perspective it’d be more desirable to develop the river side with regular planting and paving – remembering that the Boardalk only comprises a section of one side of the Liffey. As pleasant an amenity the Boardwalk is, I wouldn’t want its localised presence to spoil the chances of developing the existing quays for the majority of the city. As such, if this means duplicating the role of the Boardwalk where it exists on the other side of its quay wall, then maybe this should be done.

To be honest I’m not sure – just a bit irritated at the Boardwalk pulling people out of the city when the quays could be developed in the longer term; it just stifles that notion really, pushing it way down the line. The Boardwalk is ssentially a temporary measure, chopping the foliage off the weed but leaving the root in the ground to be dealt with another day. A practical and on the whole probably good solution to the city’s current needs, but it shouldn’t be used as an excuse to leave the quays as giant car parks indefinitely. Burgh, Aston and Wellington Quays in particular have great riverside potential

On a vaguely related topic, does anyone know where this water is coming from pouring out from Bachelor’s Walk?

It can’t be a storm as it hasn’t rained in weeks, and there’s no underground streams round here – I think…

Yes I would also agree that the redevelopment of the Quays should consider the whole length. Its important in terms of enhancing the city west of the Four Courts and complementsing areas like Smithfield and Collins Baracks and Soho. Its also necessary to improve the impression people get as they enter the city centre.

I think the benefits of the Port Tunnel have been oversold in this regard though. As mentioned most of the traffic on the quays is cars. But at least removing the trucks allows for greater use of the footpaths whcih are generally unpleasant spaces at the moment as trucks and buses create so much dirt. As the residents of the Bookend Building how they will feel about ahving windows they can see through.

It would be interesting to have some idea of Dick Gleeson’s thoughts for the Liffey.

Good news has arrived in the form that the Port Tunnel is to open on December 20th

I really hope that much of the contents of the Liffet Quays section of this report are taken into consideration in rejuvinating the civic spaces along the City’s finest natural asset with the reaccomodation of the nations freight flows.

€750m Dublin Port Tunnel opened

20 December 2006 11:25
The Dublin Port Tunnel was officially opened by Bertie Ahern and Dublin’s Lord Mayor Vincent Jackson. The first truck went through the tunnel shortly after 10.50am.

The tunnel, which is 4.5km long, has taken over five years to build. It is designed to reduce the number of heavy goods vehicles using the streets of central Dublin.

The tunnel will allow a toll-free journey for trucks and buses between the port and the MI motorway at the Coolock interchange, in less than eight minutes.

It is estimated that, initially, some 6,000 such vehicles will use the tunnel every day.

Although the project is behind schedule and over budget, the National Roads Authority and Dublin City Council are hoping that the tunnel improves the traffic situation in the city centre in the coming weeks.

The Irish Road Haulage Association claims that congestion on the M50 motorway will increase as a result.
The tunnel will not be open to cars until the New Year.

It will be interesting to see the impacts on the City Quays of this much needed investment and just how much scope there is to further humanise this stretch of river.

Well keep an eye on these and see if you notice any impact. :rolleyes:

Santry end and the lead up to it as well as the Eastlink

Wellington Quay & Wolf Tone Quay which leads to the N4/SCR Jtn

AND HERE ARE SOME REASONS WHY HGVs WILL NOT TO USE THE TUNNEL JUST YET

M50/N2 Jtn , M50/N3 Jtn & M50/N4 Jtn

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/motors/2009/0902/1224253656950.html

@GrahamH wrote:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Dublin1/Dublin%20Archiseek/QuayOutlet1.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

It can’t be a storm as it hasn’t rained in weeks, and there’s no underground streams round here – I think…

Just noticed the above. There is something in the back of my mind about those shops with basements in Henry & Mary Streets all having sumps and pumps to cater for the water soakage that is particularly noticable after high tides. A call to Primark or Arnotts might obtain an answer.
Rs
K.

@Devin wrote:

It includes graphic visions of how the Quays could look if afforested and how the Phoenix Park could comprehend outdoor swimming facilities and even a beach, along the lines of the Paris Beach project.

Dublinspirations suggests the need for a strategy to regulate and minimise the profusion of visual clutter that has degraded many streets and spaces.

It apears the Parisians have taken the beach idea a little further

French farmers turn Champs Elysees green

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0523/paris.html
Sunday, 23 May 2010 21:39
The Champs Elysees was turned into a huge farm today with plots of plants, trees and flowers laid out on Paris’ most famous avenue to focus attention on France’s crisis-hit agriculture sector.

Dubbed Nature Capital, the event is expected to draw two million people over the next two days and is organised by the Young Farmers association and the French forest industry.

Over a stretch of 1.2km from the Arc de Triomphe down halfway to the Place de la Concorde, the street is dotted with more than 100 varieties of grain, fruit and vegetables.

AdvertisementThere are also cows, pigs, goats and lambs but in small numbers with a view to showcasing some of the famous breeds such as the enormously fat black-bottomed Limousin pigs, prized for their meat quality.

‘We are not there to complain about our situation, but rather to show off our work,’ said William Villeneuve, head of the young farmers’ association.

He hopes strollers on the Champs Elysees will think about ‘what is on their plates and become more active consumers’.

French farmers are already a diminishing breed but one of the worst crises in decades has further unsettled the sector, fuelled by falling prices and rocketing production costs.

President Nicolas Sarkozy’s government has offered an aid plan for French farmers with some €1.8bn in loans and €650m in other support payments.

Last month, hundreds of farmers rode into Paris on their tractors, bringing their worries about the future of farming to the capital of Europe’s agricultural powerhouse.

Mr Sarkozy has in past months made several trips to rural France, visiting farms and trying to ease the anger of producers who say they are no longer making ends meet.
every
About 200 trucks rolled onto the Champs Elysees late last night to unload the trees, plants and topsoil and part of the avenue has been closed to traffic.

Nature Capital was designed by Gad Weil, an outdoor events planner who 20 years ago organised a similar happening that turned the Champs Elysees into a giant wheat field.

Any thoughts on if a similar ‘event hosting’ of out of the box projects would be an attractive proposition for Dublin?

some photos
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/europe/10143795.stm

@KerryBog2 wrote:

Just noticed the above. There is something in the back of my mind about those shops with basements in Henry & Mary Streets all having sumps and pumps to cater for the water soakage that is particularly noticable after high tides……..
K.

Yep, this is true in the case of the Supermac’s building in O’Connell St.
As an employee there many moons ago I remember those sumps and pumps in the basement working overtime as the basement was prone to flooding.