Dublin Street Lighting
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There’s an interesting related point to that, that you can’t as such put your finger on when crossing the bridge, but it’s the fact that the kiosks block you views as you cross the river, whether it be in a car or on foot; there’s no real sense of crossing the Liffey from one side to the other, the very point that the O’Connell Street IAP highlights about O’Connell Bridge, the very point – and yet the CC seek to ignore this issue that is pointed out in one of their own documents in the case of Grattan Bridge.
Very much so a case as Garethace has highlighted, of the CC putting the effort into ‘flagship’ projects but ignoring the fundamentals in the average space in the city. O’Connell is worthy as part of a grandiose scheme, but Grattan is not.
In the ‘before’ pictures Devin posted previously , it is without doubt the broad flat expanse of Grattan Bridge that is of greatest appeal, with sweeping views of the quays on both sides, and the delightful seahorses framing the views whilst simultaenously marking the river crossing by marching along on both sides, acting as architectural and practical beacons on the river, both day and night, as all similar lamps do on most bridges around the world – Westminster Bridge being a grand example of such.
The fridges have taken this away from the city, dividing it in two – the only bridge on the Liffey other than O’Connell that generated this effect 🙁
As for the black posts – fully agreed about the juxtapositioning, it’s very successful. And the lamps are great in themselves (even if they’d remind you of larger versions of the Texaco forecourt model :)) – just I think they take away from the purpose of the seahorses, relegating them to a bit of frilly Victoriana in the side, when they ought to be dominant.
To see them sticking up in the distance in the middle of the river is clumsy, and kinda smacks of ‘let our modren paraphernalia handle this one lads’ :rolleyes:1/9/2005
Went to have a closer look at the Merrion posts to see if if any other posts are recognisable from the olden days, and I came across the one below. Nver looked at it closely before but interestingly it’s a much larger chunkier version of the c1903 posts that went up around the city centre (and that lined O’Cll St as seen before). I wonder why it is bigger than usual – maybe it stood in a prominent place, perhaps the one in front of O’Connell Mounument or at the junction of South Grafton St?
Anyway, all was fine and interesting etc until I glanced upwards. Having seen the smashed lamp up there before I didn’t pay much attention until I walked around a bit more. Recognise anyone? 😡
@Morlan wrote:
Yeah, it’s such a jumble isn’t it.. We’ll stick this bit here & we’ll stick that bit there…..that park encapsulates “Pat Liddy Dublin” for me.
Had to laugh at how insulting Evelyn O’Rourke on the radio must have been to him during the week – introducing him as ‘Pat Liddy ah the Pillar’s gone, ah 1916, ah aul Dublin’s gone to pieces…’ etc 😀
What’s annoying about the copper lamp is not what it’s attached to, but rather where it should still be – ON A CITY STREET!!!
Still, more importantly again, does its presence here suggest that all the concretes are still in storage somewhere?!I’d say when the vast majority of them were taken up in the late ’70s they were dumped or destroyed, because very few cared about things like that then. But I’d really like to know what happened to the 2 or 3 that were inexcusably removed (from the last surviving group of them) just a couple of years ago on College Street – as noted by Phil – & replaced with heritage reproductions.
Will stick this, one of the 6 remaining, here (pic has appeared before):
I’d say that most of them ended up in landfill unfortunately; I’ve seen quite a few corporation iron posts put into driveways on large one-offs over the years. I’ve never seen one concrete post anywhere than in operation. I very much doubt many of them were even taken out of the ground intact which really is a pity.
Was in Belfast yesteday, and i thought i would catch a snap of these for the record – standard lamps. Must say, I think their street seats (black metal grid style) are superior – more comfortable and perfectly functional. H
Ah yes, ‘those’ lamps 😉
Can’t say I’m a fan, and am sure they’re not exactly hot with astronomers either given their huge level of pollution!
A classic British High Street staple.They featured very prominently in that Guinness Christmas ad with City Hall in shot didn’t they? (ooh how exciting, it’s only 12 weeks till that starts airing again :))
Lovely palazzo style facade in the background in you picture hutton.
If “Those lamps” are what I think they are, they have an internal baffle that reflects light down and brings upward light polution in line with reccomendations from the dark sky association.
I’m sure there a shonky versions without the baffle, but setting aside the light polution factor, there are standards to be followed for light levels in pedestrian areas, and if, as a lighting designer you’re trying to adhere to these standards, the last thing you want is for all your light to be shooting upwards. So choosing the version with the baffle may be nore exspensive in the short term, but you need less fittings, therefore you’re more energy efficiant.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Originally posted by Graham Hickey (as file)
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We’ve established that the magnificent 1930s concrete Art Deco lamps which once lined (primarily) the main streets of what is now the O’Connell Street IAP area were removed wholesale in the late-’70s, except for a cluster around College Street / D’Olier Street, and, scandalously, that several more were removed within the last five years: the two seen on College Street outside the now Wesin Hotel in the top left picture, which were replaced with ‘heritage reproduction’ (the top right picture shows the heritage repros being put in) – a piece of official cultural vandalism – and two more on O’Connell Bridge, one of which is seen in the above picture (the other having been in the same position on the other side of the bridge).
I think it is reasonable to suggest that the two on O’Connell Bridge that had survived up to this time had lost their context; they were just two leftovers at the south end of the bridge and did not relate to anything else in the vicinity. Given this, the obvious thing to do was to carefully lift and relocate them so as to consolidate the surviving cluster on College Street / D’Olier Street, where they looked so good next to the stone and brick buildings, NOT simply remove and/or destroy (?) them.
What happened to these lamps removed in recent years? It’s our city – we have a right to know. If anyone in lighting (Plug? Eric Woods? or anyone else) knows or could find out what happened to them, or indeed the bulk removal of 25 yrs ago, it would be very helpful.
I recall seeing the lamp heads, three if not four, for sale at a stand in Mother Redcap’s “antique” market back in the early eighties. What surprisesd me was how large they were. The casings were copper, although somewhat tarnished,and the glass opaque and yellowish. Not the kind of thing that might have ended up in a bedsit (remember them?) off the South Circular Road. That crowd went for the smelly “fir ag obair” lights. As for the standards,alas, methinks they got ground up.
That’s interesting lunasa, especially as the date ties in with the removal of the lamps from most of the city centre. Whatever about the standards, the lamps no doubt even then would’ve been quite desirable being of high quality copper, and somwhat quirky in appearance – suited to many commerical premises.
When you think that at about 32 posts went up on O’Cll St – sure that’s 64 lamps alone! Add to that Westmoreland St, College Green and Dame St and you’re approaching 150!
Where the heck did they all go?! The fact that a handful turned up in lunasa’s market perhaps suggests that a wholescale sell-off or disposal was not carried out by the Corporation….It is sadly ironic that when a lamp moves from the busiest streets in the country to its final ‘resting place’ away from danger, that it is only then it gets destroyed 🙁
Looks like this one was cleaned up to its original state before re-erection in the park.
It seems highly likely the standards were ground up alright – there’s no way 70+ of these could have been kept in storage 🙁We’ve established that the magnificent 1930s concrete Art Deco lamps which once lined (primarily) the main streets of what is now the O’Connell Street IAP area were removed wholesale in the late-’70s, except for a cluster around College Street / D’Olier Street, and, scandalously, that several more were removed within the last five years: the two seen on College Street outside the now Wesin Hotel in the top left picture, which were replaced with ‘heritage reproduction’ (the top right picture shows the heritage repros being put in) – a piece of official cultural vandalism – and two more on O’Connell Bridge, one of which is seen in the above picture (the other having been in the same position on the other side of the bridge).
I think it is reasonable to suggest that the two on O’Connell Bridge that had survived up to this time had lost their context; they were just two leftovers at the south end of the bridge and did not relate to anything else in the vicinity. Given this, the obvious thing to do was to carefully lift and relocate them so as to consolidate the surviving cluster on College Street / D’Olier Street, where they looked so good next to the stone and brick buildings, NOT simply remove and/or destroy (?) them.
Recently I have noticed that the few remaining ones of these lamps are in poor repair. There is selophane wrapped around most of them, as the concrete is starting to crumble. These lamps are an authentic example of Dublin’s heritage, and it would be a pure scandal to loose them. Does anyone know exactly who to contact in Dublin City Council about them?
In fairness to them it looks like there is plans to fix them at some stage, it just seems that the work needs to be done as a matter of urgency.
The head of the public lighting department I guess. Be on the website. The heritage officer might also be a good person to get onside.
Yes I was wondering what that selophane was about too; not sure if it’s protecting the concrete or just holding the electrial access doors in place. Probably the former given metal bands are the usual short-term solution to broken doors.
Even in Morlan’s pic here you can see quite a bit of deterioration to the concrete, and only that that can be seen:
They are definitely in need of work at this stage; given the unusual nature of their construction they don’t even receive a coat of paint over their lifetime. And goodness knows what structural state the lamps are in at this stage.
Indeed just on the lamps, I came across one of these notorious 1930s pieces recently having passed it for years without realising what it was, as has probably everyone else: the lamp suspended from the ceiling of the entrance foyer to Trinity on College Green! How did that get there?!
Also on streetlighting, an application of undercoat to a lamp on Talbot Street recently highlights just how good standards can look in a colour other than boring old black. Coloured streetlights can really help in creating an identity for certain streets and ought to be tried out more (though not with those hideous lanterns).
The concrete lamps are certainly getting a fair oul’ innings on this thread (and rightly so!!).
I’ve seen that wear Phil. The marks of buses and other vehicles grazing against them can be seen all over the lower parts of them. Well at least by talking about them in this thread we are hopefully drawing attention to their plight!
How depressing if all the old removed ones have been ground as lunasa says! 🙁
Here’s another ’90s view of one of the (scandalously recently) removed ones on College Street and its ‘heritage’ replacement (not to mention the building behind!).
As a street lighting historian and collector, I’ve found this thread particularly fascinating. Luckily I discovered this discussion before a short break in Dublin, so I was able to take several pictures of the examples in Merrion Square Park and pay my respect to the remaining concrete columns in the city.
I’ve since reviewed various publications and books devoted to street lighting and discovered that the O’Connell installation (that being the concrete columns) was mentioned several times. Even Waldram, who was probably the most respected street lighting engineer and researcher in the 1930s through to the 1960s, mentioned them favourably in his cornerstone book of 1951.
By road building standards, O’Connell Street is extremely wide. This causes problems with standard street lighting, which assumes a set road width (Normal street lighting lanterns are designed to cast light up and down the road’s axis). A custom built, or a novel approach, is required, and this is what the authorities set out to do in the late 1930s.
Looking at the old pictures of O’Connell Street, it was first lit with gas, then arc lamp, and finally incandescent electric bulb. In 1938, this often-altered installation was deemed inadequate and Mr. F X Algar, who was the head of the Lighting Section of the Irish Electricity Board, was asked to design a replacement installation.
His scheme was novel in many ways. Firstly, he specified concrete columns and brackets, which were only just being used for street lighting (the first columns in the UK being manufactured by Concrete Utilities and installed in Liverpool in 1932). The style of the bulky column, and the art-deco bracket, is an excellent example of these early concrete columns. Originally the surface would have been polished to a smooth finish, but the weathering of the last 60 years has reduced the surface back to the original, rough concrete mix.
Secondly, the large copper and brass lanterns were fitted with specialised refractor rings, which directed the light flux out towards the centre of the street, rather than along the street’s axis. Therefore to create a uniformly illuminated road surface, the lanterns had to be clustered closer together than the normal spacing; hence the requirement for a double bracket, arranged in-line with the road’s axis.
The lanterns were fitted with 1500W GLS lamps (which is a normal tungsten bulb). Additionally, the panes of the lantern were made of rimpled glass to diffuse the light and reduce glare from this intense point source.
Each complete lighting unit weighed 2 tons.
I’ve not been able to identify the manufacturers of either the columns or lanterns, but would suggest Concrete Utilities for the former, and perhaps BLEECO for the later.
When erected and completed in 1938, it was regarded as the best street lighting system in Ireland. By 1951, it was still of suitable merit that Waldram was singing its praises, dedicating a section of his book to this particular scheme.
Only subtle alterations were made during its lifetime. In 1963, the lanterns were converted to 700W high pressure mercury bulbs which gave off a more bluish-white light. Discharge lighting being far more effective than tungsten, it saved the Dublin authorities £10 per lantern per year, although there was a slight decrease in the installation’s efficiency. (This was due to the refractors being designed for the point source of a tungsten bulb and not the vertical linear source of a mercury discharge bulb).
At some point in the mid 1960s, the lighting deemed inadequate along the centre of the carriageway, and post-top GEC lanterns were erected along the centre of the street to boost the lighting.
The death knell occurred in 1972 when the entire installation was obsoleted. The lighting around the city had been upgraded to modern standards, and the 1930s technology of the main streets was looking very dim in comparison. Dublin’s lighting engineers visited Edinburgh to view the new wall-mounted lighting on Princess Street, and influenced by its clean, uncluttered design, decided on a similar, sterile design for O’Connell street. So the O’Connell concrete columns were ripped up in 1972, replaced by wall mounted GEC lanterns which burned pairs of high-pressure sodium lanterns.
In general, the early designed concrete columns and brackets have survived the longest, largely down to their sheer bulk, quality manufacturing and careful installation. By the 1940s and 1950s, spinning and prestressing of concrete columns allowed the manufacturers to build slender and thin columns. Coupled with sloppy installation by local authorities who skimped on sealing joints, many columns and brackets now show signs of water ingress i.e. cracking, spalling, and in some cases, collapse.
For this reason, concrete column manufacture for street lighting ceased in the early 1990s, and local authorities in the UK are currently embarking on schemes to remove as many of them as quickly as possible.
So, it’s a small miracle that some of the old 1938 Dublin columns still exist!
Unfortunately, it looks like the remaining brackets are succumbing to cracking and spalling. This would account for the sellophane wrapped around some of the brackets and columns; they’re literally starting to fall apart. This does not bode well, as I don’t know of any concrete column which has been repaired. I expect they’ll be declared dangerous and eventually removed.
A trip to the park was illuminating (ha!) because it revealed part of Dublin’s street lighting heritage. Many of the brackets and lanterns in the park were manufactured in the 1930s through to the 1950s by British Thompson Houston (BTH) and the Brighton Lighting And Electrical Engineering Company (BLEECO). I’ve taken several pictures of the street lights and and identified several examples on my website:
http://www.simoncornwell.com/lighting/install/dublin1/index.htmI hope the above was of interest!
All the best,
Simon Cornwell
http://www.simoncornwell.com/lightingYes, thank you very much for that. It is very interesting to know something about the history of those lights.
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