Dublin Port – Feasible or not?
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Firstly the idea of not doing things correct in the past is no reason for not doing anything in the future. Yes, in this country the M50 was decades over schedule, the port tunnel was not correctly planned, the red cow roundabout is a joke, but ireland can learn from its mistakes just like anyone can and move to tommorow.
Now to address the PD’s proposal,
It is very very ambtious, but I don’t have a problem with that, many projects in history of the world have been very ambitious, to give an example of something in my head, the london underground was decribed as radical back then as us travelling in flying cars today. Ambitious and radical ideas can be very good, that is never a negative point as some of you mention. If it’s not feasible that is another thing, It would be uneconomical for our govt. to splash out on a Mag-lev billion euro train Dublin-Cork in less than an hour when the population does not support it. This proposal is possibly unfeasible in its present state.In Saudi Arabia, one very good move by cities was that truck traffic was banned in city limits during hours of daylight, this forced the truck traffic to travel during night, and kept traffic flow moving during the day, It was an extremely sucessful. The proposal to move the port would have the benefit.
The port tunnel would not be redunant or dead weight, as if ‘manhattan’ appeared on the docklands, the traffic flow would need a high level of infrastucture.
The current Transport 21 plan faces so many problems by going through the city centre, if dublin revolved more around the docklands, we could for the first time plan ahead and make an underground, without bearing a fraction of the 34bn needed for transport 21
The georgian dublin would remain, and be part of history in 100 years time, and not be dotted with high-rise blocks needed for dublin’s expansion. (the listed buildings would remain, but beside them new places would be developed and on large-scale) The city is growing and it has to grow somewhere, it will probably grow vertically in the city centre, ruining somewhat of what is there. This could be saved if the docklands land became available.
As previously mentioned, dublin port is near full capacity, and will be at full capacity by 2008, we are a growing city and a growing economy.
Most importantly, why is the port in the city centre? Purely and simply for reasons that are historically based. It would save time for truck drivers, essentially delivery costs to port should drop dramatically and access is much easier, city traffic would flow better. Nowadays, transport has improved, and there is no reason to have such valuable land taken up by a land use that is transferable, I wonder how the new port would change north dublin, but its impact on dublin city centre would be extremely positive.
J
The more I think about it the more I think it’s a good idea. We could build up at the port if we wanted to and leave our low rise historical Dublin spots alone. Will it really happen though? I can see lots of people objecting to it, both in the CC and Balbriggan.
It should happen and the entire area should be high dentisty high quality apartments (for the accomadation).
It just takes a government decision and they can start to phase it out from 2008 over a number of years. A plan could be drawn up as to how to relocate the port between now and 2008.
Whatever happened to that Critical infastructure bill ? The number of objections would surely drop with it. The government is sitting on its ar$e and its time they thought big and acted quickly.
As I mentioned before, they already had an opportunity to build high-density away from historical Dublin in the docklands. What we have now is an new Sandyford.
@Morlan wrote:
As I mentioned before, they already had an opportunity to build high-density away from historical Dublin in the docklands. What we have now is an new Sandyford.
That’s very true. I just hope it doesn’t happen again. I guess time will tell.
looks great sounds great
but our leaders do not have the liathroidi (balls!!) to go start anythin like thisDid anyone see the program on RTE about the Docks ? it wa called ” the bay” . It was really hyping the docks but I thought it was over rated. Someone reckoned the port should never be moved even though they admitted that having a port at the city is completely out of step with what the rest of the developed world is doing.
I think there may be another “The Bay” program on next week. lets hope they see sense then and put forward the case for moving the port.
Just got this from Tom Morrissey today:
Please find attached a direct link to the New Heart for Dublin Conference
being held on 20th October at Dublin Castle. Please feel free to forward to
your circulation list.http://www.newheartfordublin.ie
Regards.
Senator Tom Morrissey.
Speakers are to include: Tanaiste Michael McDowell, Senator Tom Morrissey, Senator David Norris, Frank McDonald, Sean ‘Dublin Bay’ Loftus, Jurgen Bruns-Berentelg, Tony Reddy, etc – its worth having a look at their site, but I’ll post some of their blurb below anyhow. Suspect I’ll see some of you there.
Hutton.
From website (http://www.newheartfordublin.ie):
A one day conference comprising Irish and international experts who will discuss a new vision for Dublin Bay, including its port.
THEN
On Thursday the 15th December 2005, Senator Tom Morrissey and Tanaiste Micheal McDowell TD launched a discussion document entitled “A New Heart for Dublin’ in the Clarion Hotel on Dublin’s north quays.
The document was intended to generate discussion about redeveloping Dublin Port as a centre for cruise liner traffic, as part of a major urban regeneration project.
“This has the potential to create a spectacular Manhattan-style approach to Dublin by sea. The plan draws on international experience in cities like Helsinki and Barcelona where run-down port areas have been transformed beyond recognition. It would breath life into Dublin Bay, which is currently an underused asset,†Senator Morrissey said at the time.
“Industrial port activity should be moved gradually from the already over-stretched Dublin Port to Bremore, north of Balbriggan. This would free-up 600-plus acres of Ireland’s most valuable real estate for phased redevelopment, which could include housing, office accommodation, shops, waterfront promenades and green spaces.”
The proposals also aims to deliver a truck-free city.
“When you consider that Irish imports and exports have grown five-fold since 1990, then it is really no surprise that Dublin Port currently has a capacity problem. The worrying reality of the situation is that the Port is likely to run out of capacity by 2008. The consequences for our economy will be profound as exporters and importers face increasing delays and costs in getting goods to market.
“This proposal by the Progressive Democrats is intended to spark debate on how best to develop Dublin Bay – a unique asset in the heart of our capital city. We welcome submissions and ideas from members of the public and interested groups on how the bay can be best used for the people of Dublin,” Senator Morrissey concluded.
NOW
The proposal has been well received in all areas of society that further public discussion was obviously needed. The over-riding question asked by many people was “Now do we make it happen?” hence the sub-title of this important conference. Respected speakers from all over Europe have been brought together to discuss how we can move forward with this radical concept.How have other cities dealt with these issues? How can it be funeded? How best to ensure the mistakes of the past are not repeated again? These questions and more will be addressed by the speakers in our Conference Schedule.
To book a seat at this important conference please click here.
“At at price in excess of €30 million per acre, Dublin Ports land bank of 660 acres could release between €15 billion and €20 billion on a phased basis to fund much needed infrastructure in the vicinity of the new port at Bremoreâ€
Is it just me or is this just a bit of a pipe dream? It seems like something that might happen in 2100. Certainly not in our life time. We’re only just managing to add a third lane to a section of the M50.
Don’t get me wrong it sounds amazing but entirely unrealistic.
I think he should get the people of the waskai company to do his visuals, they are awful and not helping the project. Those skyscrapers are totally overblown even comapred to the real life examples of helsinki and the new highriselowirse docklands today http://www.newheartfordublin.ie/downloads/liffey_river_boat.jpg
i agree, the graphics are absolutely appauling but we can defintley start work on relocating the port in the next few years.
I applied to go to this conference thinking that it would be interesting and at the very least offer some new perspectives on how the city should develop. I just got the invoice for a delegate place this morning: €477. Personally I can’t see how this is justified, is it to pay for the salubrious venue, the speakers (a number of whom are paid public representatives!), or is it simply a fundraiser for the PDs. Either way Im certainly priced out. “Be warned” anyone else who thinks they’d like to attend.
It appears that the PD’s are not alone in promoting Bremore. The Dublin Regional Authority in their submission on the National Development Plan in April 2006 they list moving the port as a major objective link here
To achieve the Region’s aim to build a public transport system that is integrated, affordable,
accessible and one which meets the capacity of a growing city, a number of important investment
decisions will need to be taken in the short term.
In addition, the DRA believes that before the end of 2007 a number of important studies will need
to be completed to address the longer term public transport needs of the Region.
On-going planned investments such as Park and Ride facilities will continue during the period of
the NDP and these too have to be included.
One over-arching consideration is that the city centre in particular will experience significant
disruption once construction of the Metro, LUAS and rail interconnector projects get underway.
To address these issues, the DRA recommends that the NDP include the following measures in
the proposed Operational Programme for Economic and Social Infrastructure:
1. Transport Supporting Infrastructure
2. Strategic Studies
3. Current Measures
4. Traffic disruption
5. Docklands Flagship Project
4.5.1. Transport Supporting Infrastructure
It is estimated that significant capital investment which falls within the remit of the Local
Authorities will need to be allocated to the provision of supporting infrastructure which is essential if the following projects are to proceed within the time scale envisaged in Transport 21:
• Metro North
• LUAS lines
• DART and rail improvements
• Dublin Airport
• Dublin Port/Bremore
Specifically, the four Local Authorities will need to procure and construct local roads, park and
ride facilities, access to public transport facilities, bridges and works to divert traffic away from
major construction sites.Unfortunately a search of the published plan yields this
FF promises to study move of Dublin Port
06 May 2007 By Richard Curranhttp://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=IRELAND-qqqm=news-qqqid=23447-qqqx=1.asp
Fianna Fail has moved one step closer towards backing the idea of moving Dublin Port to a new location.
The party’s manifesto – published last week – said if re-elected, it would examine the role of the port, taking into account its location and other factors.
The idea of moving Dublin Port to somewhere outside the city, such as north Co Dublin, was first mooted by the Progressive Democrats.
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern has not knocked the idea when asked about it in recent months, but the party has never committed to such a radical move.
However, the manifesto says Fianna Fail will ‘‘undertake a comprehensive study of the role of Dublin Port taking account of location, overall ports policy, transport policy, urban development and the National Spatial Strategy’’.
The reference to a study comes at a time when Irish Continental Group, owner of Irish Ferries, is the subject of a takeover battle on the Irish Stock Exchange.
Investment group,On€51, which, together with Dublin Port, owns Greenore Port in Louth, has teamed up with the Cork-based shipping firm the Doyle Group to make an offer for ICG. This is in response to a takeover offer led by ICG’s chief executive Eamonn Rothwell.
ICG has a lease on 30 acres of land at Dublin Port, while the Doyle Group also owns around 30 acres beside it.
Dublin Port tried to join the On€51/Doyle consortium in recent weeks but did not get a positive response from the Department of Transport.
Industry sources say the ICG property at the port is of little value unless Dublin Port were to move to a new location.
The PDs plan was to develop the port area into a Canary Wharf-style location with offices and luxury apartments.
A study ? They should really be starting work on that ASAP. Glad to see another party has come around to the idea though.
All things to all men
Couldn’t be an election year could it?
How big is the port in acres/hectares ? I think the land there is worth around €20 – €30bn but the actual area available isnt that big.
something in the region of 600 acres, at something like 50mill per acre… which does put the land value at ~30 bill
I think thats it….I read it a while back :/
The Irish Times 21/10/2006
Taoiseach supports high-rise waterfront for Dublin
”…According to Senator Morrissey, land prices of €30 million per acre could be achieved for most of the port holding which runs to 660 acres. The sale of land could release between €15 billion and €20 billion to fund infrastructure in the vicinity of the new port at Bremore….”
Pretty sure i read 50mill somewhere elese tho
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