Dublin Historic Stone Paving disbelief
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Yeah I suppose they wouldn’t have been quite so smooth when first laid 100 or more years ago, but, like anything of intrinsic quality, it gets better with age!
But that’s no excuse for awful cobbling in Temple Bar. The main problem seems to be that the setts are not laid closely enough together – the old ones are always tightly laid. It’s really an embarrassment given the 1000s that visit every day.The lifting and re-laying of Smithfield’s setts a few years ago, and the public space scheme in general, has been the subject of some criticism – see here for one: https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=4352 – but the resulting sett surface (below) was an improvement over the shockingly bad Temple Bar surfaces (wouldn’t be difficult I suppose).
.Setts are being dug up and relaid in the Cow’s Lane area at the minute – difficult to see how they’re gong back down, though it would appear to be in the typical toothy fashion.
Ship Street has lovely tightly knitted setts just walking over them today. Such a pleasure in contrast with Temple Bar.
@Graham Hickey wrote:
I’ve often wondered about the phenomenon below – you probably know what it is Devin.
It’s this roadway cobble-edging as pictured. You see it all over the north and south inner city of Dublin.
Are the cobbles the original surface that is left exposed to either side of the rest of the cobbled road that has been covered over in asphalt, or is the original cobbled surface dug up entirely and some cobbles just relaid as a quaint drainage system along the kerbline?The crudeness of the laying, and the amost flush surface with the road covering would suggest the latter…
This is an extremely common phenomenon in modern suburban road building around Austria (do a lot of business over there so see it a lot). The street is tarmaced and then the drainage areas along the edge are lined with such cobbled areas. The cobbles are brand new. I cannot see any functional reason for this so perhaps it is just decorative and to give a better definition to the road area.
Or it could be because under-street services are located at the edge of the road, and the cobbles allow access to them without disrupting the tarmac.
Here is an example of what was mentioned earlier about the piecemeal, haphazard replacement of antique golden kerbstones with modern white granite that you see on so many city centre streets. The example street is Lower Leeson Street – the east side – from the Grand Canal down to St. Stephen’s Green:
So, starting at the top, antique kerbs are present & correct.
Down to the junction with Pembroke Street – fine so far …
Then here we go – far side of the Pembroke Street junction and the white granite kerbs begin …
50 paces later, across a laneway, and it’s back into the antique kerbs …
Another little bit on and the white granite begins again, this time a lengthy stretch …
Finally, just before reaching St. Stephen’s Green, you cross a laneway and the last little bit to the Green still has the original kerbs.
Can you imagine seeing this in Paris, or even London?
Certainly more unity is required, though to be honest I’m surprised they even bothered to go with white granite kerbs of the same broad width – they’re not particularly common in the city on that scale, so at least they went to the effort.
But if they’re aware that they need kerbs of that width on the street, they they also know damn well that it’s antique granite that should be used along here, and that’s just presuming it wasn’t the latter they were replacing!At least the white granite looks well, but it’s absolutely no excuse for a disjoined paving scheme, nor the replacement of priceless rust-tinged Irish kerbstones.
As an aside, I was looking at those very concrete lampposts on Leeson St the other day, wondering how long they’ll last. Will we give them a year to be replaced with silver repro muck?
Well, they’re at it again. Dublin City Council’s Roads Maintenance Division have just done their dirty raised cement pointing on the listed antique paving on the west side of Temple Lane, from Curved Street up to Dame Street.
And now they’ve moved on to the other side of the street. Here is their handiwork from this afternoon.
I am not having a go at Fas – they do a lot of good work. But, as Greg said earlier, that’s the metaphor which sums it up best: the Fas trainees being let loose unsupervised on the valuable antique pavments.
This is bloody awful. These pavements were fought for back when Temple Bar was being developed, only to have them smeared with cement in 2006. You’d think we’d have come further. Pointing is supposed to be secondary to stonework.
@Devin wrote:
I am not having a go at Fas – they do a lot of good work. But, as Greg said earlier, that’s the metaphor which sums it up best: the Fas trainees being let loose unsupervised on the valuable antique pavments.
This is bloody awful. You’d think we’d have come further. Pointing is supposed to be secondary to stonework.
I suspect that that battle is lost. I agree it’s awful.
This lunchtime I took the attached pics (camera phone) – unbelievably they show repointing of the main entrance steps to Powerscourt Town House.
Maybe these are in private ownership – but the destruction wrought in public areas (in the name of DCC) is completely inexcusable.
This probably sounds preposterous but I have noticed posters mentioning that this white granite is permeable. Would anyone think it possible to artificiallypatinate/colour this stone in some sort of a bath of humic/tannic acid?. Could we leave batches of this awfully bland stone in monstrous vats of stewed tea!
This granite also seems very liable to chipping. A good place to observe this is the section of Talbot st. from Marlbourough place to the junction at nth Earl St. One side of the street is old stone, still in great nick, whilst the West side of the street is the new stuff that is already in rag order, chipped and stained beyond redemption by the looks of it.@tommyt wrote:
This granite also seems very liable to chipping. A good place to observe this is the section of Talbot st. from Marlbourough place to the junction at nth Earl St. One side of the street is old stone, still in great nick, whilst the West side of the street is the new stuff that is already in rag order, chipped and stained beyond redemption by the looks of it.
Parts of Smithfield are in bits too after only about 5 years.
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The correct pointing to antique paving should look something like this; a delicate tracery of whitish mortar between the stones, allowing the quality of the stonework to dominate.
Stone masonry is a craft. Repair and alteration to historic paving is a highly skilled operation. But Fas trainees are doing it in Dublin city centre. It is shocking.
HAve you been on to the Heritage Officer at DCC Devin? Perhaps they have an opinion on whats happening.
It’s bad enough that Dublin’s most important pavements are being used as a training ground for tradespeople, but the real shocking factor is not this – rather it’s the fact that this is how they’re being trained to do it! 😮
It beggars belief if the case.Stephen, yes, they’re aware of the problem. They know that practice for protected stone paving needs to be brought into line with practice for protected buildings. Resources need to be allocated for it …… this is the big step.
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As work approaches completion on the new plaza beside City Hall, a large section the historic granite paving running along the Dame Street edge has been lifted (above). It will need to be put down again in accordance with best conservation practice – observing the coursing and bonding integrity of stone paving, and neatly pointed in the recommended flush or slightly sunken finish.
The Council’s recent record in this respect is not good. But this is not a side street like Temple Lane or St. Patrick’s Close where you might get away with a bit of nasty work. You’re in the full glare of Dame Street now, DCC Roads Maintenance.
An email has been sent to the Council in advance so there’s no excuse.
This is what they’re doing in Barcelona’s Placa Cathedral. I spotted this last night as I walked through. Red X represents replacement req’d.
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So you think conservation standards are low in Dublin, huih?? Look at what was allowed on the steps of Galway Court House
Uugh! Irish workmen are obsessed with cement … trowel it on … the more the better. Fine jointing is a foreign concept.
@Seanselon wrote:
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So you think conservation standards are low in Dublin, huih?? Look at what was allowed on the steps of Galway Court House
😮 Even the hound looks depressed at this wanton act of vandalism.
I would love to post photographs (can’t figure how to do it yet) of the historic paving outside Cork City Hall being ripped up and dumped to allow for cheap, glassy, Spanish or Chinese slabs laid to match the junk laid in Patrick Street at the behest of our City Manager, Joe Gavin (remember him Galway?) 😮
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