dublin airport terminal

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  • #717353
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I agree with everthing that you say as things stand; however there is terminal capacity for 30m pax in the existing terminal and roughly the same again with Terminal 2; the choices for DAA is lose money operating both or mothball one or other terminal as either has independent excess capacity or do what Schipol has done and build an important hub from a City without the population base to justify the routes they have based on population.

    The cancelation of the Third Runway at Heathrow has BA looking to Madrid to build capacity; CDG is a nightmare and Frankfurt too far East for trans-atlantic. DAA have little to lose drawing up a list of cities in the Americas with flights only to say London and Paris and targeting airlines that redistribute the majority of passengers on these flights upon landing beyond London or Paris. It has to be worth some research if it were to work it would put the capacity in place to justify the planned second runway; as it stands Dublin has terminal capacity for 50-60m pax and 1 runway a situation that ensures that passengers at Dublin will have a very comfortable passenger environment for the forseeable future and that DAA have a strong business case to give free landing charges to cut underlying loses without it being considered loss leading.

    #717354
    GregF
    Participant

    I like it….the bit I’ve seen of it…that’s mainly the exterior. It looks cool…quite futuristic and Sci-Fi

    A great stylish back drop for a movie with that long stretch of road. Interesting to see if any Irish director will utilize it.

    #717355
    cryans
    Participant

    At least when new comers land at Dublin they will see a modern Terminal and have a good first impression. 🙂

    I have been told by one person who came here to work that they thought they were about to enter some third world country when they seen the jumble of Airport buildings on landing 😮

    But looks like the new terminal will suffer a similar fate as the old central Termainl building which opened its doors in 1940, I think a war broke out or something so it must have been idle for many years. As will this new T2 be quite empty for many years at huge expense. 🙁

    #717356
    EIA340600
    Participant

    @cryans wrote:

    But looks like the new terminal will suffer a similar fate as the old central Termainl building which opened its doors in 1940, I think a war broke out or something so it must have been idle for many years. As will this new T2 be quite empty for many years at huge expense. 🙁

    The 40’s terminal was designed with an eventual capacity of 15 m.p.p.a. This was raised to 20 m.p.p.a and eventually 23m.p.p.a with the opening of area 14 check in.T2 is designed to cater for 15 m.p.p.a. T1 will be cut back to cater for a max of 20 m.p.p.a again after T2’s opening.

    This will leave 19 million passengers between the two terminals which have a combined capacity of 35 m.p.p.a.So both terminals will be handling just above half of their capacity.I believe that this is a comfortable level with enough room for growth in the coming years.

    It’ll be quite a while before we get up to 35 m.p.p.a but if the DAA try hard enough to market their prime position in Europe, customs and border preclearance and extrra capacity then growth should happen quickly(provided they get a new runway capable of handling fully loaded long range aircraft such as the Boeing 777 and Airbus A340).

    #717357
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I agree with all the positives you have listed but would add two further points; firstly London Gatwick LGW flew 31m pax in 2007 from a single runway; excluding Virgin’s holiday flights the vast bulk of these were on short haul and medium haul routes. On that basis a second runway will not be required for another 50% passenger growth or say 15 years taking 2.5% pax growth unless new passenger growth and resulting revenue streams are generated through new initiatives. Secondly Dublin Airport already flies many widebody aircraft such as the Airbus A330 which is equivelent to a Boeing 777; historically IE also flew 747 or the largest civilian aircraft other than the A380 which is not an aircraft that will fly anything other than major hubs where landing slots are an issue and or soverign wealth fund owned airlines being crass; you would anticipate that this will continue for the forseable future.

    With current excess terminal capacity standing at least 19m pax; revenue growth howsoever acheived must be the only priority of the DAA; as they now have a customer experience to rival the best in terms of terminal capacity per passenger. Looking at Schipol being above Frankfurt and Hong Kong in terms of passenger numbers it does indicate it can be done; no doubt the Schipol model relies heavily on duty free to compete on terminal charges. The pre-clearance into the US is a real edge; US immigration are almost too good at their job in terms of passenger experience and the ability to land in a domestic terminal as BA have done with their London City via Shannon to New York flight is pure gold to those where time is the key driver.

    #717358
    EIA340600
    Participant

    Agreed. But in terms of runway Dublin cannot handle a fully loaded 777 with its current length.Air France do fly 777’s into Dublin regularly but these do not have the amount of fuel on board required for undertaking transatlantic flights.

    The required takeoff length for a fully loaded A330 ranges from 2,220 to 2,500 metres.
    The required takeoff length for a fully loaded B747 ranges from 3,090 to 3,320 metres.
    The required takeoff length for a fully loaded B777 ranges from 2,500 to 3,536 metres, but only the least used models require 2,500 while the most popular models require 3,536.That means that only 88 out 1,141 777’s can go from Dublin.

    Dublin Airport’s longest runway is 2,637 metres which means it is able to handle an A330 comfortably, but not a B777 or B747.

    Your definitely right about the second runway though.It won’t be required for another while (optimism?). But operators such as Singapore Airlines and Cathay Pacific have said that they would fly into Dublin if it had a longer runway, which can be achieved with a few land purchases and a runway extension.

    #717359
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    The right time to be buying land if there is an operational need for it; why IE’s 747’s historically flew to Shannon en route to the US is becoming clearer to me. Amazing the DAA never considered building just an extension as opposed to the more controversial second runway. They should clearly extend the existing one as it appears that IE have only one long haul supplier to chose from; not the best scenario when negotiating fleet enhancement.

    #717360
    EIA340600
    Participant

    Absolutely.I can’t imagine a couple of fields costing too much money at any rate but could surely be bought for pittance now.Land purchases are required for the 2nd runway anyway.I’d imagine that the DAA’s proposal for a second runway was put forward because they thought that they’d get it in the boom years, but now that money is tight they should be considering the least expensive projects that offer them the most.

    #717361
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    With the road to St Margarets and Lispopple put through short a underpass the costs of a direct elongation would be pretty small; in contrast the benefits accruing from at least 2 daily Asian Hub flights with particular reference to the spin-off benefits for the E-Commerce sector would be immense in terms of daily air-freight options to the Worlds two largest air-freight hubs; not to mention direct flights to two of the World’s largest and growing financial centres and only one change for Aus/NZ.

    Typical naughties overlook the obvious

    #717362
    Bluetonic
    Participant

    @EIA340600 wrote:

    Land purchases are required for the 2nd runway anyway.

    There is enough land already in ownership for both the new parallel runway and an extension to the current main runway (blue outline indicating land ownership)

    http://tinypic.com/r/16715oo/3

    http://i26.tinypic.com/r/290vlso/3

    #717363
    EIA340600
    Participant

    @Bluetonic wrote:

    There is enough land already in ownership for both the new parallel runway and an extension to the current main runway.

    Fantastic…I wonder how much an extension would actually cost in that case…Couldn’t be much more than a small stretch of motorway plus a bit added on for special drainage and grip requirements..

    #717364
    Bluetonic
    Participant

    @EIA340600 wrote:

    Fantastic…I wonder how much an extension would actually cost in that case…Couldn’t be much more than a small stretch of motorway plus a bit added on for special drainage and grip requirements..

    What would be the cost of disruption, or what would be the actual disruption to flights if an extension was to be constructed I wonder?

    #717365
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I may be wrong but you imagine that health and safety would dictate that there would be some form of ‘sterilised area’ at the end of a runway in case in the event of an aborted take off the plane skids off the runway. They may still need to acquire some land and certainly put the road at the end into an underpass. In the greater scheme of things such costs would be de minimus.

    In terms of construction disturbance there would be some impacts when both surfaces were merged but you would imagine that when the final ‘joining up’ was conducted that it could be phased and done out of hours i.e. after the last flight at night i.e. 1am and before the first i.e. 5am that gives a 4 hour window.

    #717366
    rofbp
    Participant

    @PVC King wrote:

    I may be wrong but you imagine that health and safety would dictate that there would be some form of ‘sterilised area’ at the end of a runway in case in the event of an aborted take off the plane skids off the runway. They may still need to acquire some land and certainly put the road at the end into an underpass. In the greater scheme of things such costs would be de minimus.

    googlemaps: gatwick runway

    i’m no expert, but there isn’t much space at either end of the runway at gatwick, which measures 3316 metres according to http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm , though of course this is longer than dublin. hopefully land purchases won’t be necessary

    #717367
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Maybe it isn’t required but I am always wary of going from the particular to the general. Better if your example of Gatwick is best practice and a small cost if it isn’t. Little projects like this are pure gold, little cost and massive return; if you had daily flights to Singapore and Hong Kong that alone would deliver close to 0.5m passenger a year. For people going to Aus/NZ the change from 3 flights to 2 would be some progress not to mention not having to change and pay £41 in landing charges to use LHR coming in from Asia.

    #717368
    EIA340600
    Participant

    The extension could be completed within normal working hours for the most part, as the crosswind runway could be used for the vast majority of flights.The runway in Manchester was completely resurfaced over a number of nights without disruption so it’s certainly do-able.

    At the moment you can fly to Australia with one stop but there is definitely room for competition.The current operators (Etihad) do extraordinarily well and often require multiple rotations a day on flights to Dublin and have done well throughout the recession.

    #717369
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I forgot about the connection through Abu Dhabi; given the choice you’d fly Hong Kong or Singapore anytime far more flights to be connected with if yours is late.

    #717370
    Flyboy
    Participant
    #717371
    pragmatist
    Participant

    interesting conversation…. sounds like some of the participants have quite intimate knowledge of the airport and/or the aviation sector.

    the new paralell runway has permission from FCC… however DAA will be going back in to have the existing permission changed to facilitate A380’s

    the new county development plan will likely safeguard an extension to the existing southern runway also

    watch out for Air India if DAA can do the deal….. the plan is for Dublin to act as a scissors hub with flights from 3/4 Indian cities (Delhi, Ahmedabad etc) converging on T2, utilising the CBP capability and flying on to 3/4 US airports such as O’Hare, Newark etc

    #717372
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Dublin Airport’s Terminal 2 to open today
    Updated: 07:40, Friday, 19 November 2010

    Dublin airport’s Terminal 2 will be officially opened later this morning.

    1 of 1 Terminal 2 – first official flight to arrive today Related Stories
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    Dublin airport’s Terminal 2 will be officially opened later this morning.

    While the first official flight will arrive today, airlines that are using the new terminal will begin transferring their services to the facility from next Tuesday. It will not become fully operational until the New Year.

    Aer Lingus has advised all departing passengers and people collecting arriving passengers to report to Terminal 1 until further notice.

    The transfer of transatlantic flights to Terminal 2 has been delayed as the US customs and border protection service will not be operational there until January.

    The new terminal has been built at a cost of over €600m and has capacity for up to 15 million passengers.

    Ryanair has criticised the project as a white elephant, saying it is not needed and has called for it to be mothballed.

    One day after the IMF landed……

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