Dublin Airport Metro to have unconnected terminus?
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@Diaspora wrote:
I’m afraid that as aesthetically pleasing as Dick’s figure of 8 may be it will not address fundamental issues of Irish Rail transportation, it is all the population of Ireland that we should be trying to serve here
Diaspora, could think before you post and not just bang down the first thing that comes into your head? Where does it say that the ‘figure of 8’ purports to serve the country’s or greater Dublin area’s commuting needs? (nowhere) – It is a city centre plan, designed to make it easier to get around the centre, link major tourist attractions and promote urban regeration in places that need it, like James’ Street. It also improves the public realm of the city by removing unecessary through traffic.
Devin wrote:Diaspora, could think before you post and not just bang down the first thing that comes into your head? Where does it say that the ‘]Well you could read the thread title then ‘Dublin Airport to have unconnected terminus’
Adam Smith was a perceptive individual when he came up the concept of the ‘scarcity of resources’ and to return to the point the RPA’s proposal to spend 1.9bn on a rail line from O’Connell St to Dublin Airport at a time when we don’t even know where the second terminal is going to be is a ridiculous use of what are extremely finite resources.
The priority at this time is to allow Irish Railways to grow particularly in the highly congested Eastern Region. only a full implementation of the IE Dublin Rail plan can facititate a 200% increase in operational capacity. Given that 700,000 housing units will be built over the next decade in response to changing household formation it is time for the Department of Transport to do what needs to be done.
The RPA have really damaged their credibility with this latest proposal as an unconnected line might serve 100,000 units; which will do no more than free up road space for those further out that are denied access to a proper rail service and forced into car use to a degree that is un-necessary. As for constructing a Luas line down Thomas St and into the City Centre this will do little except for those that are already close enough to walk or cycle.
Ken Livingstons comments on the Circle Line are very interesting ‘it is the nine-lane motorway under the city that links it all together’. Another Luas line should be considered when much more important elements of the system have been put in place, I am amazed that you are so supportive of Luas given the Benton properties building’s impact on your northern views and that Dick Gleeson justified its erection on the basis of Luas, which in my opinion has about the same transport capacity as a QBC.
The RPA have damaged their credibility so much with their latest plan that it will take much more than the support of Dick Gleeson; to survive beyond completing the point and Cherrywood extensions. If DCC wants to see their rates base grow substantially they should be supporting measures to get large numbers of consumers and commuters into the CBD & Office core on the only relevant transport mode that doesn’t add to the existing gridlock. Luas is a QBC not equivelnt to nine lanes on either side of a proper metal barrier that doesn’t allow cars to cross onto the opposing carriageway.
Take it from me, if the figure of 8 is built it won’t be by the RPA, by then IE will be getting a much fairer slice of the cake and Luas will not only be run by the private sector but they will be designing it as well.
Double post
Double cost
The RPA could build a luas from Stephens Green to Ballymun for 500m
IE can build a link to Dublin Airport …………………………………….for 450mThe RPA want 1,900m to build an unconnected line that isn’t as long
For 2,250 or less than 20% more than the RPA proposal The Eastern Region could have all of the RPA benefits plus:
Every rail service no more than 1 change (excluding Ballina & Kerry) from Dublin Airport & IKEA
200% increase in the Leinster commuter capacity at peak times
A luas system completed as planned in 1997
New stations serving both the North & South Docklands, Christchurch and a heavily rail staion close to Grafton St for the first time.Mr. Clerkin, any chance of a poll as to the inter-connector Vs the turd Luas line?
A couple of good points have been raised as to pros & cons as to the interconnector – such as it fails to increase service to the nth inner city. Maybe IE and their military wing, P11, ( 😀 ) could look again at locating more stations on those northern inner-city lines – there are a couple of options including Cabra, Croke, and adjacent to Mc Kee Barracks/ NCR.
Aside from that, one other slight concern I would have is that by the proposed interconnector underground route going by High Street, it is running through a very sensitive archaeological area. Appropriate archaeological resolution should be factored in at the outset: if done right, there’s the opportunity to tell the story of the layers of the city as one would be ascending on the escalator onto High Street. It could be a real boon – apparently that’s what has happened in Athens; anybody seen / experienced their new underground links??
Finally, does anybody have any suggestions as to better names for the “interconnector”? It really desparately needs some rebranding, its such a mouthful…”de inter wha?”!
Ps diaspora, you are right as to the capacity of the luas equating that of the QBC’s. No difference between them whatsoever – except that the looney luas has cost 40 times more than a QBC 😮 !
Yes the name sucks but you cant put it to a vote . Im afraid it is not a option . According to Irish Rail it is required if the rail system in Dublin is to avoid grinding to a halt due to lack of capacity.
Here the presentation from Irish Rail
Now in regard to no difference between Luas and a QBC, well us northsiders would gladly take the Luas as all the QBC in the northside dont work during peak times as the bus is stuck in the same traffic as the rest of the road users.
Thats a great presentation and did I hear one of your mob on Gerry Ryan during the week, very impressive, I think the RPA have a lot explaining to do if thats the best they can come up with.
@Thomond Park wrote:
did I hear one of your mob on Gerry Ryan during the week, very impressive, I think the RPA have a lot explaining to do if thats the best they can come up with.
Thanks. Gerry Ryan more or less gave us an open mic for seven minutes before the lunchtime news, and within 15 minutes of the interview ending, both the http://www.platform11.org and the http://www.extendthedart.com sites were bombarded and it lasted all day and into the night with the Interconnector FAQ pages getting some serious hits. The calls were still coming into the GR show the following morning.
I presume you’ll be lobbying for a space on Morning Ireland next?
Extolling the virtues of park and ride to all the gridlocked motorists
Airport Metro Timings Versus Interconnector/Dublin Plan
Platform11’s Detailed Examination:http://www.platform11.org/metrospeed.html
Much has been made of the metro project as a key element to combat Dublin’s chronic transport problems. We contend that upon a detailed examination of the benefits it offers in terms of journey time and capacity, that the metro in its proposed form offers very little.
Thanks,
http://www.platform11.org
http://www.extendthedart.comIn todays Independent..
Transport Minister Martin Cullen is reportedly planning a €6bn 10-year transport package that will include the construction of a second terminal at Dublin Airport and an underground metro line linking the airport to the city centre.
Reports this morning said the package included €3.5bn for the metro line, which would run from the city centre to Swords, via the Rotunda Hospital, Dorset Street, Drumcondra and Whitehall.It also reportedly includes the reopening of commuter rail services between Dublin and Meath at a cost of €156m, the expansion of services in Co Kildare at a cost of €400m and the building of an underground line between Heuston and Connolly Stations at a cost of €1bn.
Elsewhere, this morning’s reports said the plan envisaged the replacing of toll booths on the Westlink bridge with pay-as-you-go and billed charges.
Details of the plan are reportedly due to be announced next month if the cabinet approves the spending.
Thoughts?
€3.5 billion. Well there goes any chance of the DART being extended to Drogheda, Dunboyne, Maynooth and Kildare and there goes a chance of properly dealing with road traffic in Dublin with in the next 10 years.
Does the 3.5bn cover linking the Airport to Sandyford or the joke of leaving it terminate on O’Connell St?
The line looks like from Swords to St Stephens Green via the Airport. Cost €3.5b
Extending the DART from Malahide to Drogheda, Upgrade the Heuston to Kildare line to a DARTand linking these 2 line with a tunnell from Heuston to Spencer Dock, intergrating with all lines including the 2 Luas lines, extend the DART from Connolly to Maynooth and creating new spurs, from Clonee to North of Dunboyne and from Grange Road on the existing DART to the airport (only 3.5km away) Cost €3.4b
Which do you think would have a greater impact with getting commuters out from their cars and onto the train, therefore greatly reducing the traffic numbers.
weehamster wrote:The line looks like from Swords to St Stephens Green via the Airport. Cost €]All of the above and about time, a timely implementation of this plan will see Leinster develop into a cohesive region once planning decisions are made to utilise the infrastructural investment to the detriment of past settlement patterns. 😀
Clearly the interconnecter was part of the P11 plan, but how much of their proposal is’nt implemented by what Cullen is proposing? (I think a new Spencer Dock station is to go ahead as well).
@d_d_dallas wrote:
Does the 3.5bn cover linking the Airport to Sandyford or the joke of leaving it terminate on O’Connell St?
It appears that we will know on Sunday at midnight with the announcement of the ten year capital funding programme being announced on platform 11
I’ve just been flicking through here and had a quick look at the P11 site-specfically the plan on it. Have a few questions if anyone can answer them for me….
:confused: The red and green DART lines running up past Stephen’s Green-are these above or below ground?And if below ground, would this not be extremely difficult to carry out, given the types of buildings, their age, and the designs they tend to built to i.e many basements etc-in that area?
:confused: Insted of linking the LUAS lines together at connolly, would it be easier to link them together at the St. James stop that’s there alredy?This is just from looking at the plan, I’m not exactly sure of the area between the 2 places.That would possibly mean less tunnelling for DARTS?Maybe easier?
🙁 Does any of this include expanding the stations currently in existence? I travel in on the Northern commuter line every day to Pearse station, and while extending the DART to MAlahide is an excellent idea, it appears to be messy juggling the timetables for the DART with the commuter train timetable.While the southside of the city has DARTS every 10 minutes or so, all day, you regularly arrive at Malahide and find yourself waiting maybe 30 mins. Also in the morning when the DARTS are every 15 mins, people at Malahide push on the commuter trains, and give out because there’s no space for them.Can they not just wait????The DART is there for them, at least they have the option!The rest of us HAVE to get the commuter train!!Also connolly station, although it currently has 7 platforms, there are only 2 tracks heading out of the south side of the station. So no matter how many trains are in that station only one at a time can ever enter or leave.So intelligent….
:confused: Grange Road?New station???
:confused: Isn’t there a rail line running up past Croke Park and up by a canal, around Phibsboro somewhere? Does that get included?
I’m glad to see that the plan seems to focus on connecting the area AROUND Dublin to the centre, as opposed to connecting the centre of Dublin to, well, the centre.Let’s face it, you can walk from one side of Dublin centre to the other, and there are hundreds of buses crossing the liffey, to the main shopping streets of Dublin. And now the LUAS aswell. It’s just if you try and get to, say, Park West from Lusk, or Clontarf to Red Cow that you run into trouble. Or maybe Adamstown to Blackrock.And considering that’s what most people are trying to do almost everyday, what choice do they have at the moment but to drive???Trains aren’t great, but buses are seriously a lot worse, if you live anywhere except the southside of Dublin really. You could be waiting forever to get a bus.THE PROPOSED METRO IS FLAWED
While Platform11 supports the concept of a Metro system for Dublin, we believe that Iarnrod Eireann’s Dublin Rail Plan, which incorporates the Heuston-Spencer Dock “Interconnector” tunnel, and a DART connection to Dublin Airport to be the key infrastructural project for the Greater Dublin Region.A Technical Briefing
The Proposed Dublin Metro is Flawed
Mark Gleeson, Technical Advisor to Platform11
March 20, 2005
http://www.platform11.org/metro_eng_eval.pdf
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