douglas

God that Fleming proposal is a traffic disaster. The only effective entrance/exit should be on South Douglas Rd but by all accounts himself and Kenny don’t see eye to eye hence this disgusting and desperate land grab on the main Douglas Rd.

@Pug wrote:

such as? Hardly a bail out blitz happening. If there is then surely that could be good in that the housing lists will get properties at knock down prices.

.

Yet another example…
“The Cork City Council would purchase the 10 houses presently for sale at Claremount Cottages, South Douglas Road which would be an ideal location for sheltered housing for the elderly, close to all amenities”
(Proposer Cllr. T. Shannon 08/049)
Reminder..Our “Del Boy” Shannon is the former driver of “Amgen” Martin when it was his turn to be given the nod to be our Lord Mayor.

Hope this works, this is my first time posting a picture,
This is a picture of the tory top bar new planning permission which was lodged at the start of the month. Looks good for the area which is benefiting from the opening of the new Aldi and the Mace which will soon open.

Other things which i noticed was that Fleming are soon to hear on whether they get permission on the new entrance on the douglas road, It would be good to see this being given the permission but i don’t think with the size of the development it will do any favours to the already heavy traffic in the area.

Looking at the academy street development it seems a bit bland but i’m sure it will look a million times better than what was previously there. Pity the initial proposal had to be adjusted.

:)Bill Keary’s submission of significant further information in relation to the former petrol station in Douglas will hopefully see this now derelict site developed in the near future.

prob should be in the Transport thread but can someone explain what these famous Green Routes are? I thought it was that the bus got its own lane. Much is made of the grange to douglas route but I cant understand how they then let the bus drive into traffic in Douglas. Also murmurs about a Douglas to City green route and Carrigaline to Douglas via Maryborough Hill but I cant figure out where they will put the bus lanes for those.

There will be no light rail out to carrigaline due to the topography apparently (arent there swiss trains that can go almost vertical?) so why not when the N28 is being built, put a little track alongside that would run all the way into town

City Hall does show flashes of ambition every now and again, this should be one

@Pug wrote:

prob should be in the Transport thread but can someone explain what these famous Green Routes are? I thought it was that the bus got its own lane. Much is made of the grange to douglas route but I cant understand how they then let the bus drive into traffic in Douglas. Also murmurs about a Douglas to City green route and Carrigaline to Douglas via Maryborough Hill but I cant figure out where they will put the bus lanes for those.

There will be no light rail out to carrigaline due to the topography apparently (arent there swiss trains that can go almost vertical?) so why not when the N28 is being built, put a little track alongside that would run all the way into town

City Hall does show flashes of ambition every now and again, this should be one

Lisbon,Helsinky & San Francisco have tram systems which climb massive hills so whats the problem as they are doing it for years.

Is there a planned light rail route map out there ?

@Pug wrote:

prob should be in the Transport thread but can someone explain what these famous Green Routes are? I thought it was that the bus got its own lane. Much is made of the grange to douglas route but I cant understand how they then let the bus drive into traffic in Douglas. Also murmurs about a Douglas to City green route and Carrigaline to Douglas via Maryborough Hill but I cant figure out where they will put the bus lanes for those.

There will be no light rail out to carrigaline due to the topography apparently (arent there swiss trains that can go almost vertical?) so why not when the N28 is being built, put a little track alongside that would run all the way into town

City Hall does show flashes of ambition every now and again, this should be one

The roads from Douglas to the city centre are not wide enough for a bus lane, so barring a very expensive CPO option, a bus lane isn’t feasible. What is on the Green Route is things like intelligent traffic lights – the lights will stay green for the main road unless it detects a car waiting to come on from a side road. Also, there were upgrades to footpaths and pedestrian crossings.

Where it falls short is that the clearway never seems to have been activated (the signs were erected, but all are facing away from the road) meaning that buses have to navigate around stopped cars occasionally. I assume this was after councillors got worried that it would upset local residents, but not be noticed by non-residents. In fact, this is a serious problem (for cars as well as buses), especially at the time that Christ The King school closes.

To be honest, parking should have been banned along the entire length of the South Douglas Road, apart from the few recessed areas like the back of St Finbarr’s Hospital and opposite the Texaco Station. There’s one particularly annoying spot outside the off licence where parking is allowed on a bend on the hill and if anyone has pulled in there, car drivers have to pull out and pray. At least the bus drivers can see over. The worst is that it’s pure laziness as that off licence has a car park.

despite 105 objections to the 1st application and a further 71 objections after Further Info was received, Cork City council planners have granted conditional planning to Bill Keary for demolition of existing structures and construction of residential development comprising 8 houses (5 two-storey houses and 3 single-storey ), 1 4 storey apartment block containing 38 apartments, balconies, winter gardens, basement level car parking at the former Dunmahon Esso station in Douglas

cant see what the conditions are yet but I forsee Bord Pleanala being involved in the near future

@jungle wrote:

It’s a bit mad constructing any one storey houses there. What’s that about? Are they sheltered housing for the elderly?

Sheltered housing? I doubt it hugely.

I’m not sure if the 8 houses were taken out or not in the Further Info part of the planning which produced revised drawings – its a huge block of apartments right in the middle of an older residential suburb, I dont think it works at all and theres no mention of the effect on traffic for that number of apartments on the already chock-a-block douglas road. I’ll be very surprised if Bord Pleanala dont change it.

@Pug wrote:

Sheltered housing? I doubt it hugely.

I’m not sure if the 8 houses were taken out or not in the Further Info part of the planning which produced revised drawings – its a huge block of apartments right in the middle of an older residential suburb, I dont think it works at all and theres no mention of the effect on traffic for that number of apartments on the already chock-a-block douglas road. I’ll be very surprised if Bord Pleanala dont change it.

I tend to agree with you. I think piecemeal development of one-off apartment blocks in the suburbs is as detrimental as development of one-off housing in rural areas. I’m just a bit surprised any one-storey houses were included in any plans for the site. It was going to be the apartment block that was going to pose the problem, not whether a house is one or two storey.

@Leesider wrote:

Talks of economic downturn and all what would be the 4 developments you would like to see go ahead in the city no matter what and why??

Personally
No.1 in the city centre I would go for getting rid of the now empty Capitol Cinema as a must to rejuvenate Grand Parade……as far as I know it is under appeal at the moment but hopefully will go ahead.

No.2 to finish off Cornmarket St with the development at Kyrl’s Quay, don’t know at what stage this is but it would cover up that multi storey car park and clean up one of the biggest derelict sites at the moment.

No.3 is HH proposal for the docklands, this is the most important and my opinion has to ahead for the economic development of Cork. It will include a new bridge, conference/concert venue, landmark buildings, office plate size to compete with Dublin and in the present economic climate much needed construction jobs. BTW when are we expected to hear a final decision on this?

No.4 is the reorientation of the train station and the development Horgan’s Quay, this I cannot see happening for the next 5 years, couldn’t manage to do anything with it during the boom and in tougher times there is not a hope…….but it is much needed as well, as the train station is the first introduction a lot of people get to our city and you know first impressions last!

My Opinion.

Develop Pairc Ui Chaoimh as Stadium for all sports.
This will encourage HH to get on with the proposed hotel which will create jobs and further developement.
At the city end the bonded warehouse is key something cultural is needed there as lapps quay is bland and lacking life in the evenings.
Douglas Swimming Pool needs to be sorted also. How long can this saga continue.
Douglas needs a new streetscape.The place is busier than the city on an average night but yet there are no footpaths and taxi drivers are king.

Quick query on the present ongoing redevelopment works in Douglas. Does anyone have scans / renders of the finished streetscape? They are clearly widening footpaths etc but the current finish is tarmac. Please tell me this is temporary and that the finished streetscape will be considerably better than present indications – as befits an otherwise nice suburb.

Fleming Construction got the nod from CCC for 78 houses and 28 apts on the former Nemo GAA grounds on the Douglas rd – a few local residents not happy, i’d say Bord Pleanala all the way – could be a stretch on the traffic situation

Well CCC gave their blessing the last time too to that Fleming development for it to be roundly rejected by AnBP.

It’s his own fault – his obsession with having access via main Douglas Rd is the achilles heel of this proposal. Wonder if the revised access via the FCA house will imporve matters. Certainly better than the originally planned demolition of mid terrace houses.

I thought it had been revised to go through the FCA premises.

That’s no guarantee that it will solve the traffic issues though. The junction will end up with very poor visibilty towards the city, so it would probably need traffic lights, but then it’s very close to the lights at Bellair and the Cross Douglas Road.

I don’t think there’s any practical way of accessing the Cross Douglas Rd from that site (unless buying up a house which could be allowed to be demolished is considered) and using the South Douglas Rd seems to be out because of developer squabbles. If the FCA can’t be used it would seem the only other access is through St Finbarr’s Hospital.

Incidentally, I don’t rememember substantial local opposition to these plans on any grounds other than the capacity of the traffic and sewerage systems.

theres a title issue as well according to the local residents, i think at the edge of the site fronting on to douglas road, think it might be to do with adverse possession as the local residents have been parking their car there for years and the council either have / hevent taken it in charge

Fleming is not interested in resolving the squabbles with Kenny for South Douglas Rd access. Apparently that development is considered too “low rent” to form an access point for his higher value Nemo development.

Incidentally it was the local residents not the planning authority who were opposed to the mid-terrace demoltion in the original plan. I’d say there’s alot more oppositon to developing the Nemo site than you’d think.

@Pug wrote:

theres a title issue as well according to the local residents, i think at the edge of the site fronting on to douglas road, think it might be to do with adverse possession as the local residents have been parking their car there for years and the council either have / hevent taken it in charge

I have been parking my car on the South Mall for years. Its not mine. Pat Kenny found out to his cost that adverse possesion claims can be costly,There is a perfect system to acquire ownership of land in existance. You agree a price with the owner, you give him that amount along with a percentage to the Government of the country ,who in return register you as the owner. Those who try to hold those who legally own land up to ransom should be held in contempt and thankfully our Courts are mainly unsympathetic to those who try to oust others from their land.

@browser wrote:

Quick query on the present ongoing redevelopment works in Douglas. Does anyone have scans / renders of the finished streetscape? They are clearly widening footpaths etc but the current finish is tarmac. Please tell me this is temporary and that the finished streetscape will be considerably better than present indications – as befits an otherwise nice suburb.

Tarmac is being used only as temporary surface during the construction period to avoid any damage to high quality finishes that will be proposed at later stage. I believe Douglas can expect really nice finishes to footpaths and to new Plaza outside Tesco by Spring next year!

i’m wondering about the new road layout in Douglas though, i think browser was as well. The way it is now, i cant see how its going to benefit what was an already congested village, Who knows, i havent a clue so it might work briliiantly. To squash the road though by sticking that plaza across it seems a bit strange to me and then put a giant speed bump there as well? If they are going to encourage cars to stay out of the village what are the proposals to get rid of all the taxis that park outside barrys and all the way up the hill.

We will find out soon enough when the schools are back. No info to the public as usual though.

In the long term, the plan is to pedestrianise the section between the traffic lights by Barry’s and the former Garda station (now Lal Quila restaurant). It’s only a small stretch, but it would ensure that the old village centre isn’t used by through traffic. That would vastly reduce the amount of traffic using what is now the right hand turn on the new road layout. In the meantime, the new road across the old shopping centre car park should mean that very few people want to use Church St to get from Douglas East to Douglas West, further reducing the reasons for going into the village centre,

But the plan has two problems. One is that it’s going to increase the traffic going through Douglas Court roundabout (and that’s quite a problem anyway) and the other is that the pedestrianisation isn’t being done at the same time. So, the likely effect will be to encourage people to still go through the village, leading to snarl ups at that right hand turn.

to be fair to the Shipton group, while the development is going on in Douglas, they have been really good in keeping an eye on the road and theres loads of staff out there in the high viz jackets etc and apart from annoying the loal residents by working beyond their planning permission hours a few times, the development seems to be flying up

i just wish someone in the council could put up a poster explaining the routes and future plans and how they think the traffic flow will move and whether they think they will no longer require an almost permanent garda on traffic duty on the congested Well Road junction roundabout in the mornings – maybe theres some info in the shopping centre itself

McCarthy Developments were refused outline planning at Jacobs Island for a proposed mixed development of 36 apts, crèche, restaurant, bar, medical practice, pharmacy, retail and basement parking.

Bord Pleanala refused the neighbourhood centre which would have included the above, mainly it appears because the retail amount was very large and considered not warranted with Mahon point across the road.

Traffic congestion in the area was also an issue (Can anyone in the city council not see what the traffic is like and do something about it for gods sake ) as was the height and scale of the neighbourhood centre.

Some residents also mentioned that a leisure centre was part of the original proposal for local residents whern they bought the houses but now it appears the proposal was to replace the 4700 sqm of leisure centre with retail, reducing leisure to 750 sqm.

Madness in Douglas
Someone in the roads office took an incredibly congested douglas and HALVED the road with a new plaza for the shopping centre so all the cars are now trapped behind the bus in Douglas – the traffic lights arent synchronised and they cant get the guy back to do it from England until October apparently – parents are reporting times of 50 minutes to go from Maryborough to Ballinlough school

Clayton Love have applied yet again, for a slight change to Douglas Shopping Centre, to move some things around which will ad 1600 sqm to the size of it. There was speculation that Marks and Spencer were going in there as the 2nd anchor tenant but Marks came out recently saying the market uncertainty meant they hadnt finalised anything yet re new stores so who knows