developments in cork
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Just reading the Galway thread there. I think its brilliant for Galway with the news about the CIE lands being redeveloped and I’m very glad to hear it, but it simply highlights the fact to me that CIE are arsing around with Horgan’s Quay in Cork. Its amazing how fast they can move when they want to, yet 8 years later we’re still hanging around waiting for CIE and Manor Park to get a move on with no clear date for an application anytime soon. It really is a disgrace and an awful big let down for the whole city. It strikes me as a further representation the Government and its bodies have for Cork (i.e. School of Music, Bus Station, Cork Airport, Horgan’s Quay, Decentralisation). I know there are issues involved, but drive can sort out such issues fairly lively. Lex posted some images of early drawings by O’Mahony Pike on Horgans Quay here before. I hope that what is, if it ever does get lodged, will be a dramatic improvement on those efforts. I’m really hoping O’Mahony Pike show more Gallery Quay mixed with Dennehy’s Cross than Charlotte Quay here. Dramatic edges and extensive glazing opening out to face the river are needed here. Design issues aside, I continue to resent the prolonged and inadequate progress by CIE on Horgan’s Quay. Four million euro novelty revamps may look nice on paper but they are just that, novelty…just like the Bus Station revamp and just like the inability to provide Cork Airport with proper airbridges and then still expect it to carry the debt despite promises.
I wish to echo the above sentiments,
getting it right as opposed to fast is the only option for this site which has the potential to link both sides of the river in real terms as opposed to acting as a barrier to movement.
@POM wrote:
Just reading the Galway thread there. I think its brilliant for Galway with the news about the CIE lands being redeveloped and I’m very glad to hear it, but it simply highlights the fact to me that CIE are arsing around with Horgan’s Quay in Cork. Its amazing how fast they can move when they want to, yet 8 years later we’re still hanging around waiting for CIE and Manor Park to get a move on with no clear date for an application anytime soon. It really is a disgrace and an awful big let down for the whole city. It strikes me as a further representation the Government and its bodies have for Cork (i.e. School of Music, Bus Station, Cork Airport, Horgan’s Quay, Decentralisation). I know there are issues involved, but drive can sort out such issues fairly lively. Lex posted some images of early drawings by O’Mahony Pike on Horgans Quay here before. I hope that what is, if it ever does get lodged, will be a dramatic improvement on those efforts. I’m really hoping O’Mahony Pike show more Gallery Quay mixed with Dennehy’s Cross than Charlotte Quay here. Dramatic edges and extensive glazing opening out to face the river are needed here. Design issues aside, I continue to resent the prolonged and inadequate progress by CIE on Horgan’s Quay. Four million euro novelty revamps may look nice on paper but they are just that, novelty…just like the Bus Station revamp and just like the inability to provide Cork Airport with proper airbridges and then still expect it to carry the debt despite promises.
Absolutely spot on there – poor representation by all of our elected representatives in Cork.
Opera House unfinished interior etc lack of central government funding ?
Cork 2005 lack of central government funding.
Bus station waste of money.
Kent station – massive potential just sitting there.
Cork Airport – 1 airbridge.
Cork Airport 160million start off debt.
School of music via an taisce delays and funding issues.
Kinsale Road flyover etc delays.In another year they will be bothering us for votes again
@Saucy Jack wrote:
School of music via an taisce delays and funding issues.
I think the funding issues are the real reason behind this; another shining example of our inability to get PPP’s right in this country. The rent for the temporary accomodation to replace the Cork High Court sums it all up for me. :confused:
@Saucy Jack wrote:
Absolutely spot on there – poor representation by all of our elected representatives in Cork.
Opera House unfinished interior etc lack of central government funding ?
Cork 2005 lack of central government funding.
Bus station waste of money.
Kent station – massive potential just sitting there.
Cork Airport – 1 airbridge.
Cork Airport 160million start off debt.
School of music via an taisce delays and funding issues.
Kinsale Road flyover etc delays.In another year they will be bothering us for votes again
😮 And to top it all off the councilors in Cork now propose to force the manager to enforce the CSD / Shields / McCarthy / Buttimer etc,etc, height cap ban…so back to tached cottages and dancing at the crossroads eh ??
councillors who object to high rise are disgrace – works perfectly well for other european cities e.g. amsterdam, berlin look fab at only 4-5 storeys high.
Cork is laden with potential and its being squandered – all those roads being built are great but at least 10 years behind the times – Kinsale bypass is being completed years late and they will tell us it came in on time and under budget – the roads will be complete just in time for them to realise that light rail needs to be put in.
being a non construction type person, Anyone see that steel sort of cage thing on the new glass city hall? presume thats there to hold the glass in place while they do something to it? surely wont be left there??
1.Additional Academy Street Images
Developer: O’Callaghan Properties
Architects: Project Architects/Gehl Urban Consultants2.Albert Quay WebWorks
Developer: Howard Holdings
Architects: Scott Tallon Walker😮 The prospective redevelopment of a former Exhaust Repairs Workshop took a step closer today with a grant issued Adrian Power on his plans to develop a notable waterfront office building near Clarke’s Bridge (just a few steps from the Washington Street legal district). The development, designed by Coughlan de Keyser Architects, has undergone significant revisions in light of a number of planning department requests. Originally submitted as a 7-storey proposal with floor area of some 2134sq m – the scheme has now been cut back by 2-storeys and has seen its original material uses, which included an attractive slanting copper element fronting Hanover Place, re-addressed. CCC demanded a more simplified proposal, reasoning that the scheme’s prominent location, required such revision. Mr. Power’s plan adjoins a recently permitted scheme running along Hanover Street, proposed by John & Michael O’Dwyer and designed by James Leahy & Associates – that proposal originally sought a 23-unit mix of 1 & 2-bedroom apartments over 6-storeys – however, the application was reduced to 4-storeys on grant. The proposal to include a small boardwalk as part of the Clarke’s Bridge scheme was also omitted as part of the planning allowance – the planning department concluded that it served no justification given its impact on narrowing the river channel and its limitation serving the scheme’s ground floor commercial unit. Construction of the Hanover Street and Clarke’s Bridge projects is hoped to conducted together when work does move ahead. DNG Commercial are the marketing agents for the Clarke’s Bridge scheme which serves wonderful potential for legal occupancy or other associated office functions given its core location only a stone’s throw from Cork Court House.
Cork Expo 2010The word ‘expo’ rings alarm bells in my head whenever I hear it… Thoughts of Hanover 2000 (which left its organisers and promoters [and ultimately the German taxpayer] $1billion dollars in debt) or even the recent Aichi Expo of 2005 don’t seem to sit well. Of course, an Expo on Urban Living in Cork is not going to be on the scale of a World Expo type affair – but that is not to say it doesn’t carry risks, any investment venture does… City Manager Joe Gavin has cited a focus on the docklands for the Urban Living Expo – indeed the prospect of an expo and its associated revenue generation could be a most enticing catalyst for movement on many aspects of the docklands – this is fine, in principle:
There are a couple of things however an expo like this needs to consider –
1. Imagination
2. A sufficient, well funded and imaginative international and national marketing campaign… not just ads in the Irish Times once a week or leaflets distributed around Cork. I mean full/half page ads in The New York Times or Guardian – or Die Zeit and Le Monde.
3. The scheduling of such an expo – is 2010 a realistic timeframe?
4. The long-term environmental impact of such a project.
5. The capacity fror such a project.
1. Imagination does not mean over-sized “white elephant” budgets – in means utilising existing resources creatively; it means thinking outside the box; it means creating an environment for linked investors to input efficiently and effectively.2. Promotions should draw a wider audience – that means utilising and building on existing links like those provided by Aer Lingus to Continental Europe to draw a greater variance of potential visitors – and perhaps, by 2010, connections to New York and other European continental locations. The promotions should be edgy, attractive and fun – focused on urban living but highlighting broader aspects appealing to a broader variety of visitors.
3. Is a 4 year time-frame realistic to showcase new ‘landmark’ buildings (given many large builidng projects take at least 18 months and with our current planning accommodation, applications of such scale can take up to a year).
4. Can a sustainable and attractive programme of building projects (permanent and temporary) be initiated and complete by or during 2010 so as to appropriately compliment the expo theme? Projects need to be imaginatively and creatively designed (we’re talking landmarks in the real sense of the word, not the estate agent derivative 😉 – though of course not every[/i can be a ‘landmark’) – but equally, they need to be “imaginatively” considered and accommodated by planners where appropriate. Any major investment scheme will require foresight, strategic consideration of the long-term environmental and economic outcomes – they need to be produced in accordance with sustainable development. They should be produced in context of the market environment but reflect their worthiness from promotion and exhibition through innovative architectural, environmental and engineering design. It is an opportunity for local and national design teams to display their capabilities and work to an international stage. The docklands needs to be given the due time and consideration if its implementation is to be a success.
5. Can Cork meet all the appropriate requirements to fulfill such an expo? Can it incorporate the necessary imagination, drive and co-ordination? Can it avoid the politics and consider the broader picture? Can it produce well thought out, well planned and inclusive proposals matched with sufficient investment and truly innovative angles on Urban Living? Can it innovate so as to lead by example? Can it effectively utilise the opportunity to energise this prospective city quarter well into the future? Can it provide the associated infastructure (rail, bed-spaces, landscaping etc)?
Cork Expo 2010
The word ‘expo’ rings alarm bells in my head whenever I hear it… Thoughts of Hanover 2000 (which left its organisers and promoters [and ultimately the German taxpayer] $1billion dollars in debt) or even the recent Aichi Expo of 2005 don’t seem to sit well. Of course, an Expo on Urban Living in Cork is not going to be a World Expo type affair – but that is not to say it doesn’t carry risks, any investment venture does… City Manager Joe Gavin has cited a focus on the docklands for the Urban Living Expo – indeed the prospect of an expo and its associated revenue generation could be a most enticing catalyst for movement on many aspects of the docklands – this is fine, in principle:……….
😮 No worries Lex, Mr Gavin gave city councilors a half line mombo jumbo on spending 230,000,000 last year, im sure he could justify 1 billion without breaking a sweat??
I hate to take away from Lex’s thought provoking post there, but I’d like to make a further point on CIE.
They are currently sitting on a pretty large, central site in the form of Capwell Rd bus depot. Selling this could free up valuable land close to the centre of Cork, enable them to move the bus depot to a more suitable location and the spare cash could be invested in renewing and expanding the city bus fleet.
@jungle wrote:
I hate to take away from Lex’s thought provoking post there, but I’d like to make a further point on CIE.
They are currently sitting on a pretty large, central site in the form of Capwell Rd bus depot. Selling this could free up valuable land close to the centre of Cork, enable them to move the bus depot to a more suitable location and the spare cash could be invested in renewing and expanding the city bus fleet.
😎 Too right, it makes no sense to have the depot on Capwell Road. CIE also need to take stock of their City Centre site that Joe Gavin rightly wants to turn into a conference centre.
@lexington wrote:
2.Albert Quay WebWorks
Developer: Howard Holdings
Architects: Scott Tallon WalkerI have to say I’m not impressed at all by the new developments getting built around the city hall. I find the Albert Quay Webworks building looks a lot cheaper than I thought it would seeing those renderings. Also that new city hall extension is terrible. I thought it would look better once the glass was in place but was disappointed. I think the problem is the top of the concrete part. If they could knock off say, 3 metres off the top it would be fine. It’s just that concrete top makes it look unbalanced, also it can be seen sticking out over the city hall from the other side of the river. I’m still hopeful it’ll look better when fully complete but have my doubts.
I hope the eglinton st tower will provide a huge improvement over the existing crap. The renders look great for it although I don’t think I should raise my hopes too much.
@malec wrote:
I have to say I’m not impressed at all by the new developments getting built around the city hall. I find the Albert Quay Webworks building looks a lot cheaper than I thought it would seeing those renderings. Also that new city hall extension is terrible. I thought it would look better once the glass was in place but was disappointed. I think the problem is the top of the concrete part. If they could knock off say, 3 metres off the top it would be fine. It’s just that concrete top makes it look unbalanced, also it can be seen sticking out over the city hall from the other side of the river. I’m still hopeful it’ll look better when fully complete but have my doubts.
I hope the eglinton st tower will provide a huge improvement over the existing crap. The renders look great for it although I don’t think I should raise my hopes too much.
As far as the Webworks goes I do think it takes into account its relationship to Albert House. However its finished with that dire Scot Tallon Walker grey framing. The same they used on Anglesea Street and the UCC Pharmacy building. It clashes with the limestone Albert House very prominently, something not clear in the renders, which if anything make the finish and glass seem a little ‘bluer’ and matching. I think the Eglinton Street elevation is actually kind of nice and the build quality is pretty good. That said the Albert Quay view is a let down with the said brown-grey finish. Very dull and clashing. I’m going to hold out on the City Hall extension until its done. I never liked it but I’ll give it the benefit of the doubt until I see it complete. I think Eglinton Street will pick up the area ten-fold. The renders are nice but I think the basic design is pretty sleek itself and will enhance the area well. I’m holding out to see what Howard Holdings have in store for their other Albert Quay site too and hope they don’t go the Scot Tallon Walker route again…and if they do, I hope its more of the City Quarter vain than all the other STW stuff around the city.
I feel so proud that I started the “Look at the state of Cork, like” thread in 2003, sparking off some good Cork debate! Even though I’m a bit ashamed that I never showed my face again until today, I really never thought there was so much interest or concern in Cork’s buildings and it’s great to see. It’s going to take me a while to read the thread but I’ll try! My title was even abbreviated to LATSOC! Brilliant!! I wish I had looked at this site before now, it’s great!
It’s disappointing that the thread has been moved to one with a more sedate title because the intention of the original ‘cheeky’ title was to catch the eye of people from everywhere so that they’d be tempted to open it and join the debate, instead of Cork people just talking to themselves in the thread, so to speak. :rolleyes:
@malec wrote:
I have to say I’m not impressed at all by the new developments getting built around the city hall. I find the Albert Quay Webworks building looks a lot cheaper than I thought it would seeing those renderings. Also that new city hall extension is terrible. I thought it would look better once the glass was in place but was disappointed. I think the problem is the top of the concrete part. If they could knock off say, 3 metres off the top it would be fine. It’s just that concrete top makes it look unbalanced, also it can be seen sticking out over the city hall from the other side of the river. I’m still hopeful it’ll look better when fully complete but have my doubts.
I hope the eglinton st tower will provide a huge improvement over the existing crap. The renders look great for it although I don’t think I should raise my hopes too much.
😮 I agree, have we really learnt nothing in the 30 years since Connelly Hall was built?
Anyone know what’s happening with the Kino cinema? They had a planning permission notice up for a while to close off the lane running just next to it but everything seems to have gone quite again.
Cork Expo 2010……..just don’t try to park here, let alone do business…….
Just read the Examiner this morning and noticed what I thought was an April Fool’s on page three……yes, it was the City Council’s notice about the new parking fines regime where you get a fine of €40 per offence but you only get a notice about it (and any others that you have recieved) about a month after…….think of it, a fine a day……..€1200 a month with no idea that the charge is out there…..
Now while I accept that parking has to be controlled, the Council, and the DOE / Government with all their “stealth taxes” are in my view taking liberties here. Think of the following……
City Council workers enjoy free parking in a number of facilities through out the city, Anglesea Terrace, Navigation House, Albert Quay all without the imposition of BIK (similar to Merrion Square in D.2 where many of you will have seen Leinster House Gardens, once a very pretty green space turned into a “temporary” surface car park back in 2001 for the civil servants)……I know, they say they deserve it with the poor pay, extended coffee breaks, jobs for life, good pensions and all that but when they start hampering trade and parking in the city they are hitting business and generally ripping people off; here’s spme examples. I ‘d have no problem with the new system if it were universally applied.
The Council have consistently overlooked their leagal responsibilities in relation to car parking in the city. Over time, they have REDUCED the number of parking spaces throughout the city while at the same the same time applying development levies for the provision of spaces that developments do not provide. We have all seen it happen, pedestrianisation, yellow lines, etc, car parking spaces just dissappear but no replacement spaces are put in place (park and ride does not count). However, legally, the Council has an obligation that where they apply charges for the provision of car pakring and they do not provide it (as they have not) they can be brought to Court and be sued for the charge plus interest if they have not provided those spaces within 7 years of the pernission being carried out. While you won’t have a large developer chasing the Council (they’ed never get a permisison again) I think that as the Council is being so egar to get public money, the Echo may want to run a story as to how people can get it back…….
The Council has also lost the plot recently in realtion to Financial Contributions for car parking. You will all have seen the Eglington Street Appeal where the Council got a smack on the wrist from An Bord Pleanala (and rightly too) for seeking to apply Development Charges on the site are devoted to car parking; this is despite the planning regulations stating that car pakring is an ancillary space and is not part of the gross floor area of a development (which is what they are allowed to calculate charges on). The Council had other ideas, they thought that their Section 48 Development Contribution Scheme allowed them to charge on parking because the document they adopted didn’t “state otherwise”. The Board has, as I understand it, has also slapped the Council on the wrist in relation to two other schemes where they did the same, one John Cleary scheme on the Old Mallow Road and also a Franilla scheme as I understand it.
This all suggests that the Council is hungry for cash, but just won’t deliver services, development (bar Patrick Street and the Grand Parade – which were a bit slow to tell the truth) or anything only filling potholes, collecting rubbish and pushing paper. In addition, it also suggest that the Councils budgets and finances may have been based on getting money in from Development Charges / sources that are no longer there…..Council finances in trouble, liability for car parking under provision, poor accounting…….Stephen Rogers, there’s a story for the Echo (or maybe Examiner).
Cork Expo 2010?……yeah right.
@opus wrote:
Anyone know what’s happening with the Kino cinema? They had a planning permission notice up for a while to close off the lane running just next to it but everything seems to have gone quite again.
I think that there was an issue with a main sewer that had to be moved to facilitate development by C.C.Council
with cost of works to be agreed and other funding issues with the development itself.
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