developments in cork
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- September 15, 2005 at 1:06 pm #758093
-Donnacha-
ParticipantBunch, this Castlelands development is at Baneshane, theres a model of the estate in Sherry Fitzgerald in Midelton apparently. Haven’t seen it, but I gather the fly-over is to be on the Cork side of the existing one, at Waterrock. No idea how thats going to tie in to the existing road, or the propsed northern relief road.
I gather that work has started on a new development just South of Ballinacurra. Should make traffic on the roundabout even more fun in the morning.
That roundabout on the N25 was never supposed to be there in the first place, the original design was for a flyover, but it would have involved demolishing some houses (on the right as you approach the roundabout from Ballinacurra) so the decision was taken, on grounds of cost, to go with a roundabout. It also explains why the roundabout is such a strange shape.
Edit for complete innaccuracy and to add link.
http://archives.tcm.ie/irishexaminer/2005/06/07/story953507280.asp
Whoa! Just googled Peachdeen, and found that the 67 houses are to be built in Lissanly – anybody know where?
September 15, 2005 at 1:25 pm #758094shrink2cork
ParticipantDoes anyone have an update on Peachdeen Limited proposed housing development at Clonye, Co.Cork ??? (05/399) The Architects are PRC Skehard Road Blackrock Cork.
September 15, 2005 at 1:58 pm #758095ewankennedy
Participant@bunch wrote:
btw – does anyone think that the sean mhuileann (?) development in blackpool looks CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP – pure 1990s tax-incentive red brick underwhelming designs – probably will be redeveloped in 10-15 years – almost as bad as the other development on commons road – cannot remember the name (advertised as dreamland)
Its a far sight better than the other Keating associates design at Camden wharf. And as far as tax driven developments go its far better than that monstrosity at Victoria mills.
Does anyone know who will be building Eglinton street? will the O’flynns be doing it themselves??? And who were the architects/planners for the Howard holdings masterplan in the docklands?? anyone?
September 15, 2005 at 2:02 pm #758096lexington
Participant@ewankennedy wrote:
Does anyone know who will be building Eglinton street? will the O’flynns be doing it themselves??? And who were the architects/planners for the Howard holdings masterplan in the docklands?? anyone?
As far as I am aware, the tender for Eglinton Street hasn’t gone out yet but is expected to do so soon.
As for the Howard Holdings Masterplan, word is that Murray O’Laoire were involved but I have no confirmation on that.
🙁 I see Fleming Construction were refused planning on their 60-berth marina for the Fota Island Resort. Hmmm.September 15, 2005 at 4:48 pm #758097Leesider
Participantquestion regarding the appeal for Water St. if they are successful will the tower element be allowed or is this an appeal for the scaled back version without the 17 storey tower?
September 15, 2005 at 5:37 pm #758098d_d_dallas
ParticipantLeesider, as I recall they were granted a drastically scaled back version so I imagine the first party element of the appeal is to reinstate the original plan. I believe there were third party appeals too so even the scaled back version could be rejected outright.
For those interested some pics of a rarely seen view – inside Jacob’s Mill which after 40 years of dereliction is undergoing renewal and to my mind is the most emblematic development in the city.
September 15, 2005 at 8:15 pm #758099pier39
ParticipantSeptember 16, 2005 at 2:45 pm #758100lexington
Participant🙂 The proposal by Cork City Council (and I believe it has been expressed by Cork County Council for certain locations around the city and suburbs) to bring into policy a condition obligating new city residential development units to be provided with bicycles by developers has been met with mixed reactions across some spectors in the development and development related community.
Personally, I don’t have a problem with it. For a long time I’ve wished to see the city centre island subject to large-scale pedestrianisation (at least during peak times 9.30am to 7pm for example). The city centre is ever more so becoming a congestive block of endless traffic backlogs. A figure conducted by UCC Geography Department in 2003 averaged peak-time traffic in the city at approx. 11.2 kph (will double check that figure!) – off the top of my head I can’t remember the like figure for Dublin. This figure has undoubtedly reduced in the past 2 years. Part of CCC policy aims to create the city centre as a more sustainable living environment, attracting long-term, predominantly owner-occupiers into the city after years of suburban exodus. The 2002 CSO Census statistics confirmed that the city centre population had decreased like-for-like on the 1996 findings (April 25th 2006 is the next scheduled census). At the same time, significant increases in Cork’s suburban and perhiphery populations were also documented. Population projections for the South-West Region (Cork city, county and Kerry) were, by 2021 expected to increase by 124,000 souls (to 705,000) based on CSO Projections dated May 25th 2005, however that finding has since been revised upward given recently released population (organic and inorganic) growth statistics. Recent ESRI and CSO reports both indicated their expectancy that Cork city and environs will absorb a substantial volume of this increase. One NUI Economist (who asked not to be quoted by name) indicated he could see, by 2012, Cork city’s (suburbs, some of which are considered CorkCoCo jurisdiction, and city centre inclusive) population increase by as much as 20,000 to 25,000. An approximate growth average of 3,571 every year from now until September 2012 or a respectable 2.9% (approx.) per annum (taking 22,500 as the median value) – it must be remembered however, that this does not take heed of fast growing population rates in Commuter Belt settlements like Midelton, Ballincollig (agruably a suburb – whose population by 2018 is expected to rise to 40,000), Mallow, Carrigaline, Crosshaven, Blarney/Tower, Glanmire (which consequent of recently lodged or proposed developments should increase district population by a possible 6,000 ~ 4,000 of which could well be facilitated at the 2 OFC proposals alone), Rathcormac and Macroom etc. Incorporating these figures into the overall frame, paints a very healthy growth pattern. The dependency of these commuter settlements on the city paints a positive picture for development in Cork city when considered alongside city centre statistics. However, what is important to consider in this context are key factors such as infastructure, patterned growth arrangements and especially jobs – or perhaps more specifically, job types and their associated wage packets.
From an infastructural perspective, the development of commuter rail-lines (as proposed for Mallow, Blarney, possibly Blackpool and along the Midelton Commuter belt including existing structures at Cobh) is vital – from an environmental, sustainability, traffic management and economic perspective (especially individual and family economic perspectives). However, bulk growth in the southern region of the city must be accounted for as well. Current infastructural and public transport services are just, if at all, coping at peak times. Generally speaking, average wealth bases in the southern divide of the city exceed those of the north – this would suggest, in some respects, higher disposable incomes and by logical deduction, higher numbers of cars – Carrigaline is recognised as being the most car dependent town in Ireland. Actual volumes do become more balanced in real terms when consideration is applied to influx traffic consequent of commuter flows from the larger, more numerous commuter settlements to the north (and in this sense, we may consider Charleville, Mitchelstown, Fermoy etc among them) – even so, stronger emphasis will need to be applied to providing sufficient infastructural capacities in the south region, and more roads are not the way to go. Private input will be essential in the absence of required public spending – where public ‘monetary supply’ does not maintain level with demand.
But back to jobs – in order to sustain any viable growth, a sufficient money base/market is required. This is ultimately determined on jobs/wage units. Tertiary sector based employment generally tends to have a lower economic output/productivity than say industrial or manufacturing – in this sense attracting foreign bodies for providing predominatly tertiary-rooted operations (e.g. finance etc) will have to be justified on an output, skill and/or niche basis. R&D is a valuable component is establishing niche characteristics – and provides a competitive, if only ‘temporary’, edge over competitors (i.e. other locations). Sufficient anti is required strategically to continue defining Cork as a unique and desirable operations base with respectable wage levels. Retail employment, as a third sector employer, will more often than not, fail to sustain sufficient long-term employment with strong wage levels – with the exception of management/administritive positions. However, as the largest market sector in the country – it remains an invaluable economic contributor. Throughout other sectors, the aforementioned characteristics of niche, skill and competitive output will be required more and more to support sufficient wage levels and to support other employment sectors such as retail, leisure, finance etc. Furthermore, the volume of these higher wage units distributed across the growing population will need to be increased. Indigenous or MNC, the difference other than that of domestic and regional/national products is minimal. For example, as demonstrated by Glen Dimplex/Morphy Richards, when push comes to shove – if a labour market, even a domestic one, proves unsustainable or does not reach a sufficient/desired pay-off, operations are shifted off to China! Generally, unless there is a large concentration of the like, administration and finance-based activities, do not employ the same volumes as the productive dimensions do (although that can vary business to business 😉 ).
I could blab on for hours – but in conclusion, with the growth in population – the increased activity in city centre residential development, it is posited that city centre activity and occupancy levels will and are rising. CCC seemed, in the case of Eglinton Street for example, to have come to the acceptance that large-basement car-parking facilities for big residential schemes can be justified given the long-term nature or lower traffic movements (with respect to location) of the vehicles involved. I would agree – but with higher population volumes, come higher general movements. With infastructural elements not yet nearing their optimum, car travel still remains the dominant means of transport – whether suburban or commuter. The continually growing volumes mean higher congestion rates. Until a sufficient public accessible transport system comes into effect, any alleviation of traffic input is welcome. If this means removing one element, even city sourced traffic – to some extent (some people will never bother and the other sticking point is Irish weather) – by introducing/providing bicycles with new residential schemes, than the better we are for that. And healthier hopefully!
However, if developers do fund a bicycle per unit, CCC must be expected to do their part providing dedicated, safe cycle-lanes – some with parallel retractable canopies in times of bad weather (thus encouraging the use of bicycles even in poorer weather) – and proceeding with important public transport implementations.
Figure Sources:
CSO
ESRI
CCC
CorkCoCo
NUISeptember 16, 2005 at 3:30 pm #758101A-ha
Participantwow, how long did it take you to write that??? I can’t see people using bikes much in Cork, unfortunetly we don’t have a climate like the South of France and can’t imagine people hopping on their bikes and heading off to work every morning on a cold December morning. Pedestrianisation would be a brilliant idea for the city centre, except for buses and taxis. It’s astonishing the amount of population growth that will take place in Cork suburbs over the next few years, 40,000 in Ballincollig alone, thats like the size of Waterford! Someone will have to do something about public transport to the west of the city, the suburban rail to the east and north of the city is already relied upon by thousand each morning, but all Ballingcollig can rely on are buses, it’s not good enough. But I would prefer to see city centre public transportation improved, before taking care of the western suburbs. And Radioactiveman, I agree, the only reason Ryanair started flights to Dublin is because they lost out on operating the service in Kerry due to Aer Arann winning the contract.
September 16, 2005 at 3:32 pm #758102A-ha
ParticipantOh, and I hope everyone hasn’t forgotten about the “Most beautiful building in Cork” forum. It does still exist and it would be no harm to keep it up and running. 🙂 :p
September 16, 2005 at 8:18 pm #758103lexington
Participant
😮 The National Software Centre/Software Development Centre Limited is set to apply to develop the 2nd Phase of it’s Campus at Mahon – not far from Mahon Point. The original centre was designed by Wilson Architecture and built by John Paul Construction. The 4-storey, 54,000sq ft building houses a number of firms including the Cork BIC (Business Innoation Centre), Nortel Networks, Checkpoint Technologies and Wain Morehead Architects among them. The ultimate plan for the campus was to see 8 blocks, housing up to 500,000sq ft of office space and a new multi-storey car-park. O’Callaghan Properties (OCP) have their own plans for over 100,000sq ft of offices nearby at Mahon Point. This development will include a further 4-storey block, with mezzanine level and provision for 50 car-parking spaces – it will be located just off the existing block. Wain Morehead Architects will be handling the application on behalf of the SDC, with Arup in a consulting engineers role.
September 17, 2005 at 11:42 pm #758104A-ha
ParticipantI read in the Examiner today that planning permission has been given for the construction of a €2.5million crematorium for Rocky Island, the first crematorium to be built outside of Dublin. And yes, for those of you that remember, it is the one that I was always raving on about! Also an article about the present terminal at the airport and what it will be used for when the new one opens, presumably it will be used to cater for Ryanair and other low cost airlines. A CAA spokesperson said that no talks have been made yet, but given that the existing terminal still has a good life left in it (only refurbished in 1994) it would be a shame to use it just for offices. Ryanair says that whatever terminal it will end up using, all it requires are fast turn-around times.
September 18, 2005 at 6:13 pm #758105ewankennedy
ParticipantI am curious. I know Manor park homes are taking on board the redevelopment of Horgans quay. but who will be the FIRST big player to take on a significant south docklands site redevelopment? And when?? and how ambitious will they be?
And lex was saying that a new website for the development at the Ursalines college in Blackrock was due to be launched. I saw an ad in one of the Sunday papers and it gave the website address at -> http://www.edenblackrock.ie
The add showed some pics of the proposal too, i think designed by O’Mahony pike architects. Personally I think it looks rather boring. I hope O’Mahony pike offer something a little better than that at Horgans quay.!!
September 18, 2005 at 9:16 pm #758106lexington
ParticipantA number of lesser-known, or supposedly less controversial developments – especially in the Blackrock area of Cork have caught my eye of late. A recent excursion down the Old Blackrock Road found the O’Callaghan Properties development at the former Rochelle School site, designed by Dennehy + Dennehy, nearing completion with John Paul Construction on-site. The development has materialised well in the flesh and marks a further turn by OCP in aiming higher in the design standards of their projects. The project is fitting of its location and possesses a simple tastefulness about it without ever over-powering its surrounds. I especially like the balcony and parameter railings which adorn the proposal.
COMPLETED IMAGE LATER
Further down, along the main Blackrock Road, Bowen Construction are putting the final touches to the development of 60,000sq ft of office space over predominantly 4-levels in a project by SHUL Developers, designed by Wilson Architecture, at Tellenganna Lodge. However, the development can only truly be appreciate from the Monahan Road perspective. It’s a shame potential amenity green-space has been lost to the area, but the developers, design team and contractors have done a good job on a project that has also materialised positively in the flesh. Finishing materials and cladding works are now being applied to the new office building, with landscaping efforts also ongoing. From Monahan Road, the project looks over the southern docklands region from its commanding position atop a sloped perch. The development in some ways seems to be casting it’s eye over what will become an exciting new urban quarter for the city at the docklands. In this respect, Tellenganna Lodge represents one of the first major docklands commercial projects to reach completion.
CG Image of the development – Northern and Eastern elevations showing.COMPLETED IMAGE LATER
Also, a recent tour, in part, of Ballincollig Town Centre has left me generally impressed with what O’Flynn Construction (OFC) have undertaken and consequently, achieved thus far. The architectural consideration afforded the “Old Quarter” residential element of the €500m town centre development is indeed of a higher calibre than many other housing estates that emerge around the city and its environs. The shopping centre is emerging perhaps a little better in the flesh (my phrase of the day it would seem!) than many would previously have anticipated with the new office campus, deisgned by RORSA, proceeding swiftly at the old Military/Barracks Square.
Old Quarter boulevard rendering
5-bedroom Style A Housing Type at Old Quarter
Completed Style C House @ Old QuarterMORE COMPLETED IMAGES SOON
Also on Ballincollig, Aldi Stores Developments are moving on their apparent ‘town centre’-style development at the former John A. Woods premises near the entrance to the Ballincollg Gun Powder Mills, adjacent to OFC’s BTC Office Campus. The development will include a new Aldi discount foodstore with first floor offices, 11 further retail units, 12 apartments, signange, car parking and all ancillary site development works.September 19, 2005 at 2:40 pm #758107corkdood
ParticipantDoes anyone here know if there are plans afoot for development in the Camp field near Collins Barracks in the City? From what I hear the department of defence was planning to sell some if not all of the land to the city council but that was a few years ago and I do not know what has transpired since. Can anyone shed some light?
September 19, 2005 at 2:56 pm #758108lexington
Participant🙂 Cork County Council are to apply to CCC for the development of a new County Library HQ building on their County Hall lands. The new building will rise 6-storeys over basement and house a new archive and book processing unit, new library areas, exhibition area and office accommodation on upper floors. A 2-storey wing will extend for the main building structure and enclose a new courtyard area. The development is to be constructed on the surface car-park area to the west of the existing Cork County Hall protected structure, with the car-park being relocated. As part of the application, CorkCoCo will also seek to add a further level to the newly constructed multi-storey car-park, as part of the wider redevelopment of the premises, nearby. Shay Cleary Architects will be heading up the design.
– this development is significant in that, should it be granted, the partial obstruction (and I don’t use that word in a negative sense) of the western facade by the new building could pave justification for future proposals to the east and west of the tower which may be of a high-rise nature (especially to the west, where recently freed up development land provides a unique opportunity to develop a significant gateway high-rise). That includes the recently proposed 15-storey tower structure at the Crow’s Nest site off Victoria Cross.

View east to west of the Crow’s Nest and Victoria Terrace – with Cork County Hall in the background.
corkdood – I haven’t heard of anything myself. Anyone?September 19, 2005 at 3:32 pm #758109corkdood
ParticipantI was walking yesterday along the city quays at low tide and it must be said the river is not a pretty sight when the water levels are low.
The quay walls are encrusted with green weed and the riverbed is strewn with rubbish and clutter including trolleys etc. I think most of us agree that the river should be more of a focal point in our city and this may come to pass when the redevelopment of the docklands gets into gear.However the river itself is in need of attention to maximise the potential of the city. I am aware that the much maligned main drainage works have improved the water quality in the river to a large extent. However to the casual observer looking into the river it really doesn’t seem that much has changed.
It struck me yesterday that if only the city council had the vision to construct a version of the Thames Barrier to control water levels in the Lee in order to maintain a steady water level along the quays ensuring that the ugly green quay walls were always covered. What a pleasant place the city quays would become. The stench of rotting green seaweed would be merely a memory. Boatingand pleasure trips on the river could become a viable reality. The development of a boardwalk along the river would be feasible and Corkonians could be proud of the Lee instead of holding their noses when they traverse the city’s bridges at low tide. It would also encourage tourism and enhance the image of the city.
Do we as a city have the vision and the wherewithall to bring such a project to life? It is a dream of mine to see such a project brought to fruition in my lifetime. What do others think?
PS If I recall correctly as part of the Cork 2005 programme of events a Lee Swim was to be held during the summer through the city centre. To my knowledge this event never went ahead. Perhaps the smell scared away the swimmers!
September 19, 2005 at 3:50 pm #758110lexington
Participant@corkdood wrote:
It struck me yesterday that if only the city council had the vision to construct a version of the Thames Barrier to control water levels in the Lee in order to maintain a steady water level along the quays ensuring that the ugly green quay walls were always covered. What a pleasant place the city quays would become. The stench of rotting green seaweed would be merely a memory. Boatingand pleasure trips on the river could become a viable reality. The development of a boardwalk along the river would be feasible and Corkonians could be proud of the Lee instead of holding their noses when they traverse the city’s bridges at low tide. It would also encourage tourism and enhance the image of the city.
Do we as a city have the vision and the wherewithall to bring such a project to life? It is a dream of mine to see such a project brought to fruition in my lifetime. What do others think?
In the 2001 Cork Docklands Development Strategy Draft prepared for CCC by Urban Initiatives just such a system was proposed. The location was set for the breadth between Water Street and Marina Park. It was noted however that such a system would be costly and may be a visual disamenity as far as the river is concerned. Furthermore, it would hinder the scale of vessels entering the existing Port of Cork space along the quays during construction and following completion. Personally, I believe with the PoC relocating the majority of its activities to the Deep Water Berth at Ringaskiddy, the requirement for large scale vessels docking in the city would be less required. The predominant nature of vessels within this location should be restricted to leisure usage, water-buses and the occassional foreign naval visit. Interestingly, with Custom House Quay seeking to be redeveloped, the NADP 2005 proposed a extension pier to the eastern head of the CHQ site to allow berthings of perhaps such vessels, whilst allowing the quayside itself to be redeveloped.
I think were such a scheme to be proposed, the combination of such a barrier system could be incorporated into the Water Street Bridge scheme – minimising any visual impact and providing an aesthetically pleasing ‘mask’ in the shape of the Water Street Bridge.
Indeed such a scheme would be costly, but I think in strategic terms, the investment would be well worthwhile from issues of flooding, regulation, hygiene, amenity value and related economic and socio-economic benefits. The River Lee is perhaps Cork’s most valuable, yet under utilised resource. The city and the city’s docklands extensive waterfronts are a real prize. Clearly the scale of such a barrier would not be equivalent to that of the Thames and I would be very much of the mind that CCC, the DoE and Dept. of Marine should sincerely consider this option.
Interesting Link: Thames River Barrier
September 19, 2005 at 4:19 pm #758111Radioactiveman
ParticipantA few points regarding Corkdood’s and Lexington’s posts:
I’d agree with Corkdood’s initial statement that the city would benefit hugely from a realignment towards the river. Boardwalks developed similar in style to City Quarter where no on street quay wall exists and where they do, rejuvenated paving and lighting could make the most of these magnificant limestone structures.
I know CCC are in the very early stages of coming up with a plan to clean/repair and survey the remaining walls but naturally this would be above the tide mark. A ‘thames barrier’ type project for the river, while ideal, is hardly realistic in the medium term due to the enormous costs involved.
Just to clarify something, The Lee swim DID take place this year, in August. The race started at St. Vincents bridge on North Mall and finished at the Clarion Hotel, a total distance of 2,000 metres. Jack Higgins, former Cork City Manager had always promised to swim in the river once the main drainage scheme was completed and true to his word, he did so prior to the race getting underway. See here for images.
What amazes me is that with all the CCC representatives in aand around St. VIncents Bridge that day, not one took it upon themselves to organise the removal of the ugly plastic sign which hangs from the county side of the bridge – a leftover from the construction work on Shandon Bridge- maybe an indication of the heed CCC pays to the river?
Undoubtedly, the river should be opened up for the enjoyment of both citizens and tourists alike. Dublin Docklands Development Authority has the right idea with its recently launched ‘Spirit of Docklands’. The 52-seat low profile boat was specially made to travel under Dublin’s bridges. Landing stations for the boat will be at the IFSC and off the boardwalk at the Ha’penny Bridge and O’Connell Bridge. The tour service will operate daily with journey times expected to take up to 50 minutes.
I’ve spoken brefore of the need for a proper CORK DOCKLANDS AUTHORITY to be created to oversee and encorouge development in Cork Docklands and maybe such a body could also take control of the river itself to ensure it is used to its full potential.

We can only hope!!September 19, 2005 at 4:50 pm #758112who_me
ParticipantIf I’m not mistaken, there were plans proposed (around the time the tunnel was being planned) for such a dam and double lock system, but further downsteam at the current location of the tunnel. Because of the double lock, traffic wouldn’t be delayed even when shipping is passing through. And of course, it also would allow the city centre water level to be regulated.
Also on the subject of the river walls, is that large pipe “stuck on” to the river wall opposite O’Sullivan’s Quay (the Fás building) a new arrival? Not only is it a ugly eyesore, but there already has been one collapse in the river wall where the pipe’s support are attached.
Whatever about cleaning up the quaysides, let’s make sure they’re sound first!
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