developments in cork
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@lexington wrote:
😮 Another high-rise plan is set to be lodged soon with CCC – this time the proposal is set for Victoria Cross.
When I previously mentioned other high-rise plans were in formulation for Cork, I had some idea of this project however, I’ll be honest I was unaware it would be going for planning so soon. Developers Barry O’Connor and Robert Kennedy will apply to demolish their Crow’s Nest premises along with Victoria Terrace (1 to 4) and the M.P. Crowley premises to the rear of the famous pub’s car-park. The development will consist of a mixed residential and commercial building generally 6-storeys but with a landmark 15-storey tower all over a dual-deck basement car-park for 112 spaces, accessed from the Carrigrohane ‘Straight’ Road. The elements of the development contain 74 apartments (6 one bedroom, 64 two bedroom and 4 three-bedroom), 4 ground floor commercial units totalling 937.8m sq, a new ground floor pub, deli area and 1st floor restaurant which is believed will continue the Crow’s Nest operation. A terrace garden will be provided for residents on the first floor level. The development is positioned in an area zoned suitable for high-rise development – however it will be a tough planning ride given the nature of surrounding residencies and the protected structure status of Cork County Hall which the new tower will pose in front of. The Crow’s Nest premises, somewhat of a local institution, was almost destroyed by fire damage last year – some restoration efforts were put in place, but halted in light of this new development prospect. McCutheon Mulcahy are acting Planning Consultants on the project. Images and more details soon.
View east to west of the Crow’s Nest and Victoria Terrace – with Cork County Hall in the background.whoa! i leave the internet for 1 min and look what happens! hehe. i dunno im gonna need to see some pretty impressive pics to be convinced by this one!
can any1 else forsee the problems on this one?? can you imagine it; early morning county hall, staff on the 14th floor look out their office window to be greeted by the sight of a hairy, balding middle-aged man dressed only in his y-fronts doing his morning stretches by his west facing apartment window…not that im saying i will be buying an apartment in the development, but the prospect is…a little uncomfortable. that is unless the apartment is that of an attractive 22yr old blonde swedish lingerie model, in which case im all in favour of this project and will be applying for a job at county hall as soon as the crows nest project gets the go ahead! 😀
Forgive my arrogance but i dont even feel the need to object to this one I am so confident it wont get through planning. 15 stories blocking a protected structure and overlooking a dozen or so homes and other apartments… did the developers really discuss this with the corporation before they decided to proceed with it?? One wonders. May 9 stories on the corner overlooking Victoria X would have made a nice statement were it well designed but hardly 15!!
On that point i have been trying to calaculate how many new houses and apartments are approximately under construction or in planning for Cork city and around the city? Any ideas?
@A-ha wrote:
Why is the County Hall a protected structre?
According to CCC documentation:
” County Hall is a Protected Structure, designed by Patrick McSweeney it was opened in 1968. It is a unique building, representative of 20th century architecture and it is of local, regional and national importance and this is reflected in its status as a Protected Structure.”
@altuistic wrote:Forgive my arrogance but i dont even feel the need to object to this one I am so confident it wont get through planning. 15 stories blocking a protected structure and overlooking a dozen or so homes and other apartments… did the developers really discuss this with the corporation before they decided to proceed with it?? One wonders. May 9 stories on the corner overlooking Victoria X would have made a nice statement were it well designed but hardly 15!!
I think you should reserve judgement until you have seen the design and studied it’s impacts appropriately. A number of issues arise here consequent of this application – one being how the new element will affect the sight lines of the area, and how it will affect Cork County Hall.
First off, we must note the the Crow’s Nest site, including Victoria Terrace and the MP Crowley premises measures a total of 0.65acres or 0.266hectares – when viewed directly from, say, Victoria Mills, taking the archway of the student development as our centre sight-line, we can see the Crow’s Nest (CN) site is actually sided to the north of this corner area/divide between Victoria Cross and Carrigrohane Road. The parameters of the site restrict any development from wholly blocking the CCH sight line when view from this perspective straight on. At this point, we must remember that this tower element is only part of an overall development which generally reaches to 6-storeys.
The sight lines indicated on the above map should be considered – with greatest impacts, on this map at least, found at positions 2 and 4 respectively. Longer perspective views will have their own impacts.
What should also be considered, and this really is a matter for planners to ultimately decide, is whether or not the city (in this location) is willing to permit a project that will by reason of it’s height (and irrespective of its design) detract from the signature stance of CCH. Love it or loathe it, part of CCH’s appeal in any sense is its stand-alone nature – it’s an arrogant but endearing characteristic that shouldn’t make sense but we have allowed it to do so. That’s not a knock at the new proposal, but a topic worth considering. The new proposal’s relation to private residencies at Victoria Cross (to the north) and backing south toward Farranlea Road, will make it controversial. WIth CCH, it developed on a location that kind of stood out on it’s own and was surrounded by plentiful CorkCoCo owned premises to allow for a decent distance from private residencies – most residencies now found have developed in and around it, not the other way around. It is a similar feature that makes high-rise in the docklands so encouraging – but once again, I would argue, the more prominent a building is, the greater detail that must be given to its design. Not saying that shouldn’t apply to all buildings, but those that stick out should do so for all the right reasons. Eglinton Street was a positive start and should be seen as the minimum standard in high-rise design quality in Cork, I would stress. But as I said, I should hope to get images of the CN development up soon and leave it out there for debate.
Unfortunately, only 4 units in this proposal seem to cater for the larger ‘family sized’ style apartment – I would hope to see more of these units promoted over future developments; Eglinton Street provides some apartments of up to 1,900sq ft which is a positive indeed. I will look forward to seeing developer’s take more conscious steps towards greater volumes of such similar and larger sized (1,900sq ft +) quality units.
In relation to County Hall, is the original glazing being retained behind that louvered cladding?
It seems to be from your images Lexington…lexington wrote:According to CCC documentation:” County Hall is a Protected Structure, designed by Patrick McSweeney it was opened in 1968. It is a unique building, representative of 20th century architecture and it is of local, regional and national importance and this is reflected in its status as a Protected Structure.”
Love it or loathe it, part of CCH’s appeal in any sense is its stand-alone nature – it’s an arrogant but endearing characteristic that shouldn’t make sense but we have allowed it to do so. That’s not a knock at the new proposal, but a topic worth considering. The new proposal’s relation to private residencies at Victoria Cross (to the north) and backing south toward Farranlea Road, will make it controversial. WIth CCH, it developed on a location that kind of stood out on it’s own and was surrounded by plentiful CorkCoCo owned premises to allow for a decent distance from private residencies – most residencies now found have developed in and around it, not the other way around.How did the Kingsley get past planning?
😮 It was made known to me, approx. 4 weeks ago, that OCP had purchased the former TCH lands at Lavitts Quay from Howard Holdings for an estimated €8m (€3m more than what Howard Holdings paid TCH). The No.16 Lavitts Quay site, on which Howard Holdings had attained permission for a 114 bedroom Comfort Inn hotel of 7-storeys, was sold to OCP with plans to include the site in it’s retail masterplan which would include a link between Michael O’Donoghue’s Cornmarket Street development, a refurbished Paul Street S.C., No.16 Lavitts Quay and the Academy Street retail development which OCP intend to lodge planning for in October. I had held back this info from going public at request, but as it now seems the media have gone ahead with it anyway, so be it! :p OCP will be looking to lodge plans for a new development at the start of 2006 which will include extensive retail uses on the lower floors and a mix of office and apartments on the upper floors. To many this will be a sigh of relief giving their distaste for the RORSA designed hotel that was set to go in it’s place. The new building is expected to shoulder on a similar height to next-door OCP HQ @ 21 Lavitts Quay. Most importantly, OCP have also acquired R. Arthur’s premises on the corner of Lavitts Quay and Half Moon Street, now given the future proposal a proper quay-frontage and more holistic layout. The proprietors of the Matthews Centre had appealed the Howard Holdings project, it now seems it was a waste of their time and money to do so as Howard Holdings are now focusing on 2 other substantial projects, among them a significant docklands initative which I hope to bring some details of over the coming weeks.
– and on retail projects, another city centre development is expected to make a further planning application in the near future to allow it extend its permitted retail area as part of an extended project. More details on that soon also.
🙂 OFC have now publicised a list of their expected retail tenants for their Ballincollig Town Centre S.C. – scheduled to open in just over a month’s time, Tuesday 18th October 2005.
As previously noted on this thread, Dunnes Stores will anchor the centre with 2 units being occupied – grocery and retail, New Look will occupy a further anchor unit of 10,000sq ft, Dixons, O’Briens Sandwiches, Jump Juice Bars, Easons, Carrig Donn and Hallmark will all also take tenancy and have been indicated here previously. However, in addition, expect to find
Sasha
Art & Hobby
Roxy Records
Cummins Sports
Hickey’s Pharmacy
Dr. China
Pulse Accessories
CarPhone Warehouse
and FitzPatrick’s Jewellers.More tenants for the overall development will be announced soon.
– also on BTC, I can indicate that the office campus at the development (130,000sq ft), will not contend for Revenue Commissioner tenancy as speculated.
View toward BTC Office Campus (design by Reddy O’Riordan Staehli)Hi Lex will that be the complete line up for Ballincollig or will there be room for more shops also cos I think they will struggle after a while with that line up because Dixons are the only major draw and i expect them to locate in the city at some stage. I see that Market Square is due to open at the end of next month with Heatons, Game Stop, Costa Coffee, Pizza Hut and possibly lifestyle sports any news on that one lex. I also heard Pizza hut are opening a restaurant in phase two of blackpool retail park.
@Graham Hickey wrote:
In relation to County Hall, is the original glazing being retained behind that louvered cladding?
It seems to be from your images Lexington…The original glazing was actually replaced – each panel was stripped and replaced floor-by-floor prior to the installation of the new lourves. Some of the framing was restored consequent of refurbishment grant conditions – as mentioned, the structure is protected.
@securityman wrote:Hi Lex will that be the complete line up for Ballincollig or will there be room for more shops also cos I think they will struggle after a while with that line up because Dixons are the only major draw and i expect them to locate in the city at some stage. I see that Market Square is due to open at the end of next month with Heatons, Game Stop, Costa Coffee, Pizza Hut and possibly lifestyle sports any news on that one lex. I also heard Pizza hut are opening a restaurant in phase two of blackpool retail park.
No securityman, that’s not the entire line-up yet. As for Pizza Hut locating in Blackpool Park – that, I genuinely don’t know. I hope Blackpool doesn’t become even more inundated with fast-food joints, already there are 2 McDonalds and 1 Dinos all within close proximity. Though it is nice to see the variety – concentration should be considered. Indeed there is a restaurant unit available for letting at Phase 2 of Blackpool Park, ranging from 1,700 to 2,100sq ft (approx), so it wouldn’t surprise me if Pizza Hut snap it up. It will probably be pretty successful given the location either way.
@Pug wrote:werent frinailla due a planning decision today? any news?
Frinailla were granted permisison following appeal for their Crawford Woods development in Glanmire. The project, designed by Deady Gahan Architects, will provide 81 new houses and 30 generously sized serviced sites over 32 acres. My images for this project are troublesome at the moment, so I’ll put them up as soon as it’s in order. In the meantime see Frinailla’s own website for details -> Crawford Woods
anyone got any info on the new town(s) proposed for monard/rathpeacon/blarney?
any proposed time frame?
Does anybody else think that OCP’s retail plans for Cornmarket Street, Paul Street, Half moon street and Lavitts Quay, Academy Street, Patrick Street and Emmet Place are spreading out of control?
What about existing boundaries, laneways and city blocks? OCP seem to be buying up anything at all that they can tenuously link to Paul Street.
Just a thought, don’t bite my head off :rolleyes:@Radioactiveman wrote:
Does anybody else think that OCP’s retail plans for Cornmarket Street, Paul Street, Half moon street and Lavitts Quay, Academy Street, Patrick Street and Emmet Place are spreading out of control?
What about existing boundaries, laneways and city blocks? OCP seem to be buying up anything at all that they can tenuously link to Paul Street.
Just a thought, don’t bite my head off :rolleyes:I think people have a misconcpetion of this project to some extent. Essentially, the only 2 new retail elements that OCP are providing are Academy Street, which we’ve all known about for sometime, and the lower floors of Lavitts Quay – which itself forms part of a larger development anyway. OCP’s purchase of the Lavitts Quay/Half Moon Street site thus far is positive in that it now includes the vital R. Arthur premises which for so long hindered previous developments and design wholeness. With it’s inclusion, it should bring a greater sense of completion to the quayside in a wider context. The other elements included in the ‘link’ retail plan are Paul St. S.C. (to be refurbished) which exists anyway, and will offer a grocery element in Tesco – and Cornmarket Street, which is being developed by Rockfell Investments seperately. The linkage between Cornmarket Street, Paul St. and Lavitts Quay can be provided by simple walkways over the dividing laneways (Paul’s Lane and the side-street leading up toward Dalton’s Avenue) – their impacts are minimal, if at all, given the nature of these laneways. In fact, the links, if designed well could add a bit of life and character to these otherwise overlooked routes.
@mickeydocs wrote:anyone got any info on the new town(s) proposed for monard/rathpeacon/blarney?
The proposal is being jointly pitched by Fleming Construction and Coleman Brothers Developments – who, are also working together to develop the 400 units with Cork City Council, for Shanakiel. The majority of which will be for social/affordable use (supposed social/affordable). The Monard plan includes for 2,000 new homes – essentially a new town – and all it’s associated services. It just so happens, that Monard braces the new proposed €500m North Ring Road. Zoning issues are still under discussion.
Wow that Crows nest development sounds really exciting, can’t wait to see the pics. Along with the Nat ross development and that news on Joe O’donovans city centre plan, they are the best new plans i’ve seen proposed for Cork in a few months.
BTC line up seems only ok. Good for local community i’d say and Aldis is suppose to be getting under construction later this Autumn. Maybe when the full list is released for BTC it will look a bit better. Love Jump juice bars though so thats a good one for me! 🙂
I think now that O’callaghan properties have the Lavits quay site, I hope they design something along the lines of their 21 Lavits quay building. Something really classy. The last few proposals were very poor. I think the retail plan sounds interesting. But Joe O’donovans plan sounds equally enticing.
@lexington wrote:
I think people have a misconcpetion of this project to some extent. Essentially, the only 2 new retail elements that OCP are providing are Academy Street, which we’ve all known about for sometime, and the lower floors of Lavitts Quay – which itself forms part of a larger development anyway. OCP’s purchase of the Lavitts Quay/Half Moon Street site thus far is positive in that it now includes the vital R. Arthur premises which for so long hindered previous developments and design wholeness. With it’s inclusion, it should bring a greater sense of completion to the quayside in a wider context. The other elements included in the ‘link’ retail plan are Paul St. S.C. (to be refurbished) which exists anyway, and will offer a grocery element in Tesco – and Cornmarket Street, which is being developed by Rockfell Investments seperately. The linkage between Cornmarket Street, Paul St. and Lavitts Quay can be provided by simple walkways over the dividing laneways (Paul’s Lane and the side-street leading up toward Devonshire Avenue West) – their impacts are minimal, if at all, given the nature of these laneways. In fact, the links, if designed well could add a bit of life and character to these otherwise overlooked routes.
Lex, I take you point about these being seperate developments but you can’t deny that what is being assembled here is a large shopping network – now thats not neccesarily a bad thing given the disused state of a lot of the premises. On the othere hand, I think all sides will recognise the commercial advantages of linking these developments together (again not necessarily a bad thing). We already know that Cornmarket will link with Paul Street SC via St. Pauls and talk of a link to Academy would presumably be via a pedestrian walkway (aka foothpath). I think we’ll definatley see moves to link the Lavitts Quay development to Paul Street.
Also, you’ve got to take into account OCP’s existing retail at North Main Street and the rumoured large scale retail development at the Loft site.
You’ve got to wonder whether it will be possibly to rent retail space in this city from anyone other than owen o’callaghan 🙂
See map below for general layout of retail plans int he area:Purple:
C= Cornmarket St. Development
A= Academy Street Site
L- Lavitts Quay Site
P= Paul St. SCBlue:
N= North Main St. SC
X= Loft Site
My 200th post! Woohoo!!!
An Bord Pleanala has granted permission for Cork City Council to take control of 67/68 Shandon Street (see brown buildings on left in above picture) in order to prevent it remaining as a derelict site.
The site has been an eyesore in the area for some time amidst a dispute between owner and occupier as to whether or not it should be redeveloped. It seems that CCC will now put an end to this dispute.Lex
The proposal is being jointly pitched by Fleming Construction and Coleman Brothers Developments – who, are also working together to develop the 400 units with Cork City Council, for Shanakiel. The majority of which will be for social/affordable use (supposed social/affordable). The Monard plan includes for 2,000 new homes – essentially a new town – and all it’s associated services. It just so happens, that Monard braces the new proposed €500m North Ring Road. Zoning issues are still under discussion.[/QUOTE]
Isn’t Monard seperate from the Blarney areas that Flemings and Colemans bought. As far as I know, they are all in the same area generally but isn’t the Monard the new town and the Blarney extension by Flemings / Colemans linked to the rail line?
By the way, did anyone see the Examiner saying that the oral hearing for the Water Street devleopment is Oct 11-13…..
@yorktown wrote:
By the way, did anyone see the Examiner saying that the oral hearing for the Water Street devleopment is Oct 11-13…..
I see that, in the Metropole I believe. Should be most interesting.
Regarding Monard, perhaps I should be more specific (or less depending on how you view it) and refer to it as the ‘Monard Area’ – as the proximities are notably close and I chose Monard as the term to cover the general area of development as distinct from Blarney Village and it’s immediate environs itself. 😮
]15-Storey Crow’s Nest Redevelopment Plan at Victoria Cross[/URL]
🙂 Good to see construction work finally getting a move on the Cork School of Music site along Union Quay. John Sisk & Sons Ltd have moved in on site – with primary construction work commencing formally on September 12th 2005. The work will last 24 months (approx.) and be conducted in 2 phases, the 1st of which includes the demolition and clearance of the existing CSM building.lexington wrote:And who_me – Cork’s tallest development proposal has yet to be lodged. ]I really hate you when you’re being cryptic! 😀
Is this a previous development we’ve heard about, or something new and secretive? (or is this just a logical ‘no matter how tall the buildings are now, sooner or later a taller building is going to be built?’) Don’t keep us in suspense!?!
Can’t wait for the Eglington development to start up – it’s refreshing to see larger apartments on the market, though God only knows how much a c. 2,000ft apartment will cost. Well out of my price range anyway I’d imagine.
And I have to bring up a small whine here – providing parking spaces seems to be a requisite for new apartment blocks such as these, but it’s annoying that they are sold separately. Which just means that many people who can just afford the apartments can’t afford the extra 40 – 70 thousand euros for one parking space and so still end up looking for parking elsewhere in the area. I’d love it if the developers were forced to include the parking spots with the apartments.
As for County Hall – admittedly the renovations look like a huge improvement, but I wouldn’t exactly be crying if it were completely obscured. If the Crow’s Nest (great name for a skyscraper?!?) goes ahead, would that spark off further similar developments in the area?
@who_me wrote:
I really hate you when you’re being cryptic! 😀
1. Is this a previous development we’ve heard about, or something new and secretive? (or is this just a logical ‘no matter how tall the buildings are now, sooner or later a taller building is going to be built?’) Don’t keep us in suspense!?!
2. As for County Hall – admittedly the renovations look like a huge improvement, but I wouldn’t exactly be crying if it were completely obscured. If the Crow’s Nest (great name for a skyscraper?!?) goes ahead, would that spark off further similar developments in the area?
In this case I’m not specifically referring to any one project – however, there are proposals being prepared (including Horgan’s Quay) and another project is in the making, though at this stage with no finalised height (when it is known, I’ll post it up).
As for the Crow’s Nest (which I agree, is a great name for a taller building) – there is a possibility that a taller structure will also be assessed on a site to the west of County Hall.
I would be anxious to see development limit within the current boundaries around Carrigrohane – what I mean by that is, not expand beyond existing city lines, as I would ultimately like to see the Carrigrohane Straight Road renovated like something not too distant from the Phoneix Park Road in Dublin. If Mr. Richard Wood does grant CCC with the 285 acres of park land he has promised (subject to the North Ring Road routeway), I’d like to see this land, plus all the adjoining green spaces as far as the Lee Fields and Casement Park provide a natural amenity area for the city – it’s own Phoenix Park as such, it would provide a wonderful entrance into the city from the west/Ballincollig and provide some superb recreational space to the people of Cork city, it’s suburbs and environs. An upgraded Carrigrohane Road with perhaps some cobbled roadway linings, cast-iron latterns lining the length of the road from The Angler’s Rest junction to County Hall and arch-like tree covering the length of the route way to boot. Horse-riding treks, open green space, woodland tracks, waterfalls, horticultural area, treehouses etc could all be provided within the confines of this huge park.
😮 Well, a man can dream.
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