developments in cork

@Radioactiveman wrote:

147/trotters/mac’s meat is all part of a proposed development by Frinailla Ltd. (called LadysWell) which recieved permission from CCC but was appealled to ABP with a (favourable??) decision due mid August. Builders/engineers have already been onsite marking out.

As far as I know it will be August 17th (the scheduled ABP decision) – see Frinailla’s website for details on the development here. Werdna’s Water Street plans are due a decision in the following month – I’ve the date quoted earlier in this thread, the 19th September 2005 as best I remember.

@Radioactiveman wrote:

It’s a terrible indication of the state of our planning controls that 6 well built, decent family homes can be bought up, left to rot and demolished like this. I followed the previous application with interest. It was a substandard design for the location.
The fact remains though that there is no reason for demolition of these properties. The terrace as a whole represents a transition from the built up student accomodation area near college to the more permanent residential areas of Sunday’s Well. 😡

Incidently, i probably shouldn’t be saying this given my stance on their demolition BUT, if they were to be demolished I’m surprised AIB next door didnt come on board to develop a larger scale mixed use development with the bank on the ground floor.

In some respects I am inclined to agree with you. Personally, I feel the houses possess notable architectural merit (though they are not PS) and suit the area nicely – I accept the marked transition point, they do this most adequately. I’m hoping to have images up by the end of next week and will leave the design open to judgement from there-on in. Indeed, a larger scheme incorporating the AIB would have given the development a nice corner frontage on what is a primary routeway in and out of the city – a nice curve-linear glazed feature could have gone down nicely here – it would have helped feature the development is a far more positive and dramatic way, allowing it take full advantage of its environs. AIB would have had a good new premises (perhaps on the ground-floor), the basement car-park could have been extended and more units could have been added without increasing height beyond neighbouring structure brims.

It should be noted the proposal by Dermot O’Keefe on the original proposal stood a 4-storeys – it was marked by both CCC planners and ABP inspectors that a 3-storey (max) proposal would have been more appropriate – clearly Corbett’s have responded to this.

Whoa – check out the rims on that baby! 😀

Thanks jungle – how do you feel about it’s look in the flesh? (Well flesh in the making).

@BEETLE wrote:

Hi there again. Thanks for your opinion recently on the Frinailla planning app. at Victoria Cross – I was away since and never got a chance to reply until now. I took a drive around the area – making this area in and around County Hall my summer study – and I have to say that I am really very divided with regard to how the area is shaping up. The Victoria Mills apartments look dire – just my opinion – but by God, the whole area from there upward towards Dennehy’s cross is under development. There are quite a lot of established residential dwellings nearby such as across from old Statoil station, Orchard Road and The Grove (Orchard Road), and then further up you have the homes on Model Farm Road and Wilton Road, There’s going to be a whole lot of people on the move there once college starts and this will increase over the next couple of years by the looks of things. Personally, I still think that the proposed Frinailla structure is too high and I’m not overly gone on the design either. But that’s just me, I wouldn’t particularly like the design of Farranlea Hall across from the Farm centre either, although the site works much better. The Frinailla site is very small and exiting could be dodgy, particularly if going in a northerly direction (probably would not be allowed). Still don’t know what the commercial unit is for – would prob guess some sort of shop or restaurant/cafe?? But the big question in my mind is regarding the future – what happens if the apartments in general don’t occupy fully? Rumour suggests that Victoria Mills has never filled completely during term-time – Can students afford this type of living? Fellow students tell me that rented houses are still cheaper and better craic.

With regard to Victoria Mills – and I have criticised it myself often (I still think it’s horrible) – one must remember that, when blaming the developers and architects – CCC’s Planning Department were issued with a variety of design concepts in pre-planning discussions, and the one granted and subsequently constructed, was the design agreed upon by both developers and planners. That should be kept in mind when discussing the development of the Victoria Cross/Wilton Road area.

I agree that there are many fine residencies in the area – and I would support outright their security – however, the development of Victoria Cross as a student centred location is borne out of CCC policies concerning such development. Intentions were laid by the council to focus student accommodation in purpose built accommodations, in part, to make available city centre housing to family activity/owner-occupiers. There is a degree of very positive logic to this – and in many ways, I do support it. The fact is, if you take accommodations in places like College Road or Connaught Avenue – the proximity to UCC Main Campus, the relative ‘freedom’ that comes attached and on-par rents are always going to draw an element of the student population. Moreover, these locations have seen house prices soar in response to their associated markets – the average house price along College Road as of March 2005 was just under €445,000 (the assessment included many of the larger expensive houses with the smaller, less expensive houses and the average ended up mid-way I suppose! :confused: ) with many houses peaking at €675,000 and up. These figures are well above the levels of affordability for the majority of young or even mature families and punters at large – given they could easily afford a house twice the size with extensive gardens along the city limits somewhere for the same price.

A shift is coming into effect in the Victoria Cross area re: student residencies – indeed, many of the developments that got the early greenlight (the majority UCC backed efforts) have been somewhat lacking in the desired realms of design. Farranlea Hall works because of the topography site and masking of the project by tree-cover – so that the bulk of the structure is cleverly hidden, and Patrick Cashman & Associates didn’t do such a bad job at the end of the day at all. Unfortunately, it would seem one of the better designed student projects in the area,Tom McCarthy’s plans (designed by Murray O’Laoire) adjacent to the Kingsley Hotel, will not be proceeding (perhaps because of Mr. Montgomery’s efforts nearby???). As for occupying these schemes, I think there will be an initial oversupply of accommodation (over the next year to 2 years?) but this will gradually fall in line with demand as more student based activities emerge to satisfy the occupancies and projected increases in student attendances at both UCC & CIT are met. Also, there is a trend factor which has to be accounted for.

As for Frinailla and crew, it should be noted that Frinailla’s projects are not student targeted – and in fairness to the company, they have aimed at a higher standard of design (and I expect they will continue to do so more and more). CCC have been given ‘bookmarks’ on their required design standards now, and are luckily in a position to enforce these demanded standards nowadays more and more. That’s not to say some bloopers still slip through now and again.

Policy has supported much of the reshaping of the Victoria Cross/Wilton Road area – and indeed the investment should be welcomed, but the important thing will be to earmarked the appropriate zones for such schemes (like adjacent to the main roadways stated above) and not allowing them physically intrude into the important residential areas nearby. The stretches of sites aligning the Wilton Road and the southern side of Victoria Cross, I would believe are suitable for such developments. There will however, inevitably, always be borders – it’s a matter of properly defining these borders.

One project that bugged me for a while was the proposal to construct a student block on the site of the former Orchard House Hotel (along Orchard Road) – this is an example of poor planning and consideration in development – dropping an out of context building slap-bang in the middle of a predominantly residential community of low-rise detached houses (neatly shaded from development nearby thanks to the curvature of the road and tree-linings) is a mistake.