developments in cork
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😎 Werdna Limited has submitted an Environmental Impact Study to An Bord Pleanala regarding its much delayed Water Street project. Murray O’Laoire Architects are handling the design of the proposal which is now not formally scheduled for decision until September 2006. The revised scheme has been watered down (no pun intended here either) to a proposal half of its original conception – the project now encompasses 231 residential units, of which 12 are terraced houses. Basement parking has been cut to 399 spaces over 2 decks the 3 western finger blocks now peak at 7-storeys and the eastern section now includes a significantly reduced 9-storey block, now reoriented east-to-west. Given that originally this scheme was proposed as an attractive 500 unit (approx.) development with landmark 26-storey tower, reached planning at 19-storeys and 400 units, was revised to 304 units with 17-storey tower and has now reached a meek (by comparison) 231 units with 9-storey “tower”, it makes one think about the nature of our planning system.
😮 Alchemy Properties, the property development wing of Dairygold, is scheduled for a decision today (7th June 2006) on its application to demolish, clear and being preparatory works on its prime 8-acre site along the Kinsale Road. The former-CMP Dairies site, which ceased bottled production in 2001 and gradually closed its doors in recent times, is now being assessed by Alchemy Properties for a large-scale mixed development which has been the subject of discussion with Cork City Council planners. Approximately 1.5km for Cork city centre, the site is located within a stone’s throw of 2 major Cork infastructural provisions – the South City Link Road and South Ring Road. It is also within easy access of Cork International Airport, the Black Ash Park & Ride and is directly across the road from Musgrave Park.Alchemy, led by Dairygold director Michael Hogan, envision a landmark scheme of apartments, commercial and retail units and hotel/leisure uses with a strong emphasis on design. The site, speculatively, even has capacity for taller structures of up to 7 or 8-storeys, on its south/south-eastern areas. A formal application on the site is expected to be made before the year-end.
@kite wrote:
@daniel_7 wrote:
does anyone know what the hold up with the new schuh store on patrick st is and in general the vacent premises on patrick st?
😮
Vacancy levels on Patrick St. are up 23% since April 2005 according to the Cork Economic Monitor published by CCC May 2006. Very disappointing news indeed.Lex and others have pointed out many of the reasons why vacancy levels have risen on the street but to my mind there remains another issue. Many of the units on Patrick St are no longer suitable for international retailers and the city council will have to begin to address this, be it through encouraging an amalgamation of the shops (such as in the O’Donovan scheme) or else recognising that the street needs to move in a new direction – such as indigenous boutiques or something similar. Whether they could ever afford the rent is something else!
@lexington wrote:
I think strong cases can be made for all such light-rail commuter links – particularly however the Carrigaline/Ringaskiddy line. I think you’ll find the likes of the Port of Cork will champion such proposals – anything which will aid access and capacity to their new facilities at Ringaskiddy. Commuter wise, Carrigaline makes its own case. I think it will be important to develop any such line with strategic consideration for areas like the South Docklands, Mahon Point and Douglas.
Reopening the Cork-Passage-Carrigaline line could make sense for commuters, but not for freight. The line was a single track line and the embankments etc. were not designed to take full weight freight trains. If it were to be used for access to the Port of Cork facilities in Ringaskiddy, it would effectively mean rebuilding a new line on the old alignment. You’d never get such a line through Monkstown or Passage either, so it would need a large tunnel from Rochestown to Raffeen.
Reopening as a tramline would make a lot more sense. While there are many people who want to preserve the walkway through Mahon, I don’t see it as a big issue. Most of the line runs through a deep cutting. It wouldn’t be hard to put a roof on this to preserve the walkway. It could also mean that the walk wouldn’t be such a dark forbidding place in twilight hours.
Still, the first priority in Cork city has to be a working bus service. There should be buses every 10 minutes along the principal routes 2, 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 14. It should be possible to buy a ticket that allows you to use multiple buses. It should be possible to buy a day ticket. It should be possible to get buses to the airport from somewhere other than the bus station (e.g. extend the 6). Buses that terminate in the city centre – 4, 6, 9, 14 – should all terminate at the train station instead. Services shouldn’t wait on Patrick St when they are operating a cross-city service. If we can’t get this bit right (and it wouldn’t even cost that much), there is no hope for light rail services.
@jdivision wrote:
Lex and others have pointed out many of the reasons why vacancy levels have risen on the street but to my mind there remains another issue. Many of the units on Patrick St are no longer suitable for international retailers and the city council will have to begin to address this, be it through encouraging an amalgamation of the shops (such as in the O’Donovan scheme) or else recognising that the street needs to move in a new direction – such as indigenous boutiques or something similar. Whether they could ever afford the rent is something else!
That is undoubtedly a major factor – the fact is the footprint of the stores on offer sometimes do not justify the per sq ft rent demands. Moreover, international retaillers generally seek larger, open-plan spaces which allow them greater flexibility and enhanced trading capacity. It is that sort of thinking that has fuelled the layout of retail units forming part of O’Callaghan Properties’ Saint Patrick’s Street (Academy Street) development.
jungle – indeed you are correct, I was perhaps hinting more along the lines of rail in a people-rather-than-freight capacity. By access to the Port I suppose I was referring to generally linkage with the facility whether employee, visitors etc etc. Apologies if I structured my words poorly. 😮Jungle – you make a good point about a rail connection to Ringaskiddy. A light rail/tram line is an ideal solution using the existing alignment as much as possible. Was just in a city in Northern China where they have extended some of the tram lines. The cost per mile was impresively low and the system works fine and was up and running in less than 4 months! Obviously not quite as advanced as the LUAS or similar systems but then again, it was not road based and thus signalling and other costs would be much lower. The trams themselves use lightweight bogies and have a capacity of around 50+.
The Port of Cork should really have bought the Marino Point NET/IFI complex when it was up for sale. Not only does it have a prominent position in the harbour and have existing berthing facilities with room for expansion, but it had a rail connection (to the Cobh line) as well. All container operations could have been moved from Tivoli to Marino Point. An opportunity missed.From The Sunday Business Post last Sunday:
The South Infirmary Victoria and Mercy Hospital in Cork have held talks about a possible merger of the two facilities on a new site.As part of the process, terms of reference on the future population make-up of Cork and Kerry – where most of the hospitals’ referrals come from – are due to be agreed at a meeting this week. This will affect the eventual decision.
‘‘For the past few months, we have had discussions on the future of both hospitals, and the Health Service Executive (HSE) has been very supportive of that,” said Gerard O’Callaghan, chief executive of the South Infirmary Victoria.
Both hospitals have development plans for their existing site.
‘‘For the long term, we felt it was right to look at building a larger hospital with better services,” he said. ‘‘We would end up with a more efficient model and benefits for all sides.”
A number of developers and private-equity managers are expected to show interest in the project. They would be likely to offer to build a new hospital for the amalgamated hospitals on an agreed site and, in return, would be free to develop the sites of the existing hospitals.
The South Infirmary Victoria occupies a prime site on the Old Blackrock Road, close to the city centre and St Finbar’s hospital.
It is a teaching hospital for University College Cork and caters for both public and private patients.
It has a total capacity of 255 beds and is the third-largest acute service provider in the Cork area.
It also operates the second-largest accident and emergency department in Cork, dealing with about 30,000 patients a year.
The Mercy Hospital is on Greenville Place in Cork city centre. It was founded in 1857 by the Sisters of Mercy. It also has strong ties with University College Cork.
It is a 354-bed acute general hospital, providing in-patient, day-patient, out-patient and accident and emergency services, and is the second-largest hospital in Cork, employing 1,000 people.
The detailed level of analysis in the CASP plan illustrated here
Clearly displays that the projects are viable in the medium term; unfortunately we tend to get confused between the medium term and the long finger at times.@lexington wrote:
😎 Werdna Limited has submitted an Environmental Impact Study to An Bord Pleanala regarding its much delayed Water Street project. Murray O’Laoire Architects are handling the design of the proposal which is now not formally scheduled for decision until September 2006. The revised scheme has been watered down (no pun intended here either) to a proposal half of its original conception – the project now encompasses 231 residential units, of which 12 are terraced houses. Basement parking has been cut to 399 spaces over 2 decks the 3 western finger blocks now peak at 7-storeys and the eastern section now includes a significantly reduced 9-storey block, now reoriented east-to-west. Given that originally this scheme was proposed as an attractive 500 unit (approx.) development with landmark 26-storey tower, reached planning at 19-storeys and 400 units, was revised to 304 units with 17-storey tower and has now reached a meek (by comparison) 231 units with 9-storey “tower”, it makes one think about the nature of our planning system.
There’s something very disheartening about that. An opportunity lost? I wonder if the city council think that by permitting one tall building as a novelty shows them not to be anti highrise and allows them cut everything else down to a mundane pattern of 5 and 6-storeys? In some cases they even allow a 9 storey…although both cases of that to my mind were subpar in their design (Victoria Mills and the Metropole). Even the proposal for Clontarf Street seems to be under threat from height standardization. I agree that it would be nice to keep the majority of buildings patterned within the same height along the quays in this location, but surely certain locations like the Clontarf Street site and perhaps the front head of Custom House Quay warrant an allowance for something a little more adventurous? It seems anything proposal with a little imagination gets the cut to a point where they are no longer imaginative. Of course planners will undoubtedly refute this – the public will cite the height is equal to greed equation, but I account that as a lack of understanding. Height can be used to nicely shape a city. Rather than seeing height as a threat to the character of Cork, the real imagination lies in creating new dynamic districts and quarters (in areas like the docklands) which embrace new departures in design and forms, but in a distinctly Cork way. Imagination is allowing a city and its various districts evolve sustainably and respectfully, while seeing far enough into the future to consider the accommodation of new precedents. It would be saddened to think that Cork may waste some fine opportunities when they come its way. Like one poster said recently its amazing how some projects get thrashed in the planning process while those the are the real blight/potential blight on the city sometimes pass by unnoticed.
hey folks, i’ve been following this thread for some time now and the recent comments on rail developments have finally prompted me to post. its encouraging to read the opinions that present an optimistic view of the city and its future.
the idea of re-introducing light rail into cork is fascinating not only because it would have such a dramatic impact on city life but also because it is an obvious AND viable proposal.
If the rail lines were actually constructed and these proposals became a reality, then i feel the next stage would involve a two-pronged branding strategy that would aim to;
1) ensure consumer confidence that the service is Punctual, Frequent, Flexible and Clean. The affordability of travel would also be a significant factor but not necessarily a primary factor.
- customers must have confidence that the train will be there (this isn’t the No. 8 on tracks!)
- as JUNGLE pointed out the customer should be able to use different modes of transport without different kinds of tickets or stations
- Cleanliness is BIG, perhaps a bigger issue than people realise. you’ll never get families or business people using it if its a grafitti-ed mess
- Affordability of travel is important and there should be significant discounts for family passes and year long passes. costs per annum could be offset neatly by encouraging ALL people to buy a year long pass. like a gym membership many people will rarely, if ever, use it but we must sell them the idea that if they dont buy it they’re missing out. Its their reliable back up!
2) create a lifestyle brand. that is that the integrated transport service is marketed as part of the new way of life in cork city.
- This is the more interesting and long term aspect of the marketing approach. Its not about the morning and evening rush hours to and from the daily grind: its about people with lots of shopping bags meeting their friends for a coffee.
- Its about business peole being taken home in comfortable surroundings (similar to an old Evening Herald TV ad)
- An important point is that its not a new thing. In fact its tradition (ie the old trams of cork). so we’re not talking about some hypermodern appendage transplanted onto the city but rather, “the trams are coming home”.
Such a service deserves a name that respects the indepence and pride of cork people, so i would suggest that Cork Area Rapid Transport (CART) would be a mistake on many levels. This service requires a name far more distinctive and ambitious. Although the proposed service is of a light rail type, i would propose the title:
[align=center:p6fbs0jv]The Cork Metro[/align:p6fbs0jv]or as the campaign would market it as:
[align=center:p6fbs0jv]”The Comet”[/align:p6fbs0jv]The tagline would be “Catch the Comet” and could be promoted prior to introduction in faux cinema trailers. (eg coming 2010, Catch the Comet)
Maybe it seems i’m getting carried away with the whole idea but i think that its important to publicise and discuss these ideas now. Even if people begin to whisper that an integrated transport system in Cork is viable, then that is enough. Ideas will gather moment and and the abstract will shift to the practical.Crucially, why i decided to make this post was because i dont believe that the marketing stage necessarily comes after the design stage. If we can believe that this system is viable and if we continue to publicise that belief then it will become reality.
i think what you guys do on this thread and the other cork threads is fantastic and it will eventually bear fruit.
keep it up!!
😮 The group that bought the Top Car premises on Victoria Cross have, following the ABP decision to allow the Dennehy’s Heating and Plumbing (Frinailla) development go ahead, approached residents living on Orchard Road to sell their houses to assemble a bigger footprint in the area, one resident has already signed contracts to sell, another is due to sign on Friday, others are considering offers.
I’m all for development in this area (Victoria Mills 1&2excluded) but I feel that encroaching on residential areas in this manner is wrong, the CSD group will have a field day with this news.😮 Two Cork projects received awards at the RIAI’s 2006 Irish Architecture Awards at a ceremony in Dublin City Council’s Civic Offices held last night (Wednesday, 7th June 2006).
The Best Conservation/Restoration Project Award was bestowed on Jack Coughlan Associates for their work on the Lifetime Lab project along the Lee Road:
The Lifetime Lab project was initiated by Cork City Council on the site of the old Lee Road Waterworks and is described as being a mix inclusive of a“modern interactive exhibition centre, themed playground – all within beautifully restored buildings and equipment with scenic views over the River Lee.
The old Cork City Waterworks was responsible for supplying water to the city of Cork over the past 3 centuries. The Waterworks is the best-preserved of its kind in Ireland. The old buildings and machinery have been carefully restored and are now being used to tell the story of how water was supplied to Cork City in the past.
The other Cork winner was Reddy O’Riordan Staehli Architects for their work on the new Maternity Wing at Cork University Hospital.
Aer Lingus Announce 3 New RoutesAer Lingus are to add yet again to their successful Continental European network from Cork following what the company describes as overwhelming demand and interest.
Flights to Lanzarote (twice weekly), Madrid and Prague (both 3 times weekly) will commence operation in October following the basing of a further Airbus A320 at Cork Airport. The Prague flight is aimed notably in competition with the popular route already provided 6 times weekly by CSA Czech Airlines.
Summer services from Cork to Berlin, Birmingham, Tenerife and Faro will now also operate year-round following their success.
kite – I believe that’s the O’Brien family at work in Victoria Cross.gatsby wrote:the idea of re-introducing light rail into cork is fascinating not only because it would have such a dramatic impact on city life but also because it is an obvious AND viable proposal.If the rail lines were actually constructed and these proposals became a reality, then i feel the next stage would involve a two-pronged branding strategy that would aim to]
I think this deserves a thread of its own, not because I think it doesnt fit here but because I think people have so much to say about transport issues in cork and the distinct lack thereof, that it would generate a whole new discussion – the site is superb for getting people animated about buildings with relevant and decent opinions from all so why not do it for the transport in Cork?
Some sort of light rail/metro is absolutely VITAL for cork. We need our own transport plan instead of that Transport 21 rubbish. The CSAP set out the plans for transport links but the frustrating thing is there is never any action on it. In Examiner today, the NRA has cancelled the funding for the sarsfield and bandon rd flyovers – thats simply beggars belief as all the traffic from the kinsale rd will just mve on down there. The removal of Martin Cullen from office is also vital if anything is to get done. Stick Michael Martin in there and we might have some slim chance, not because I have anything to do with FF but because Cork needs some sort of senior representation in the Dail.
Its whispered that B Crowley withdrew his plans for the 6 storey office in hanover st?
I agree this thread is fast running out of space which to be honest is a little like the roads.
I agree entirely with PUG and Thomand Park – lets get a separate thread for this, if for no other reason than it will allow all the site’s visitors to note that this is an issue that is live and is being debated. As things stand only those who look at the cork thread (mainly Cork people) will read these posts.
Also great news re new flights from Cork, credit where it is due to Aer Lingus.
I totally agree with having another thread for Cork Transport issues. I’m based in Dublin, but everyday I check this site to see what’s going on back home. The more vocal people are about certain issues then the better the chance of them gaining momentum.
As for the NRA pulling funding for the additional fly-overs – what a joke! Forward planning people! Hmmm..lets see, in a couple of years they’ll say oh traffic has moved from the Kinsale roundabout to Sarsfield, so lets build a fly-over there…etc!
Thirdly, what’s going on up at the airport? Thought is was opening last October, then May! I’ve been looking at the Cork Airport website and there’s barely a mention of the new airport. etc., it’s a really poor website. A new site should be put up to coinside with the new terminal.
Pug wrote:I think this deserves a thread of its own, not because I think it doesnt fit here but because I think people have so much to say about transport issues in cork… QUOTE]True, but aren’t we wandering a bit away from the architecture side of things here? But if no-one else has any oblections…
Pug wrote:I think this deserves a thread of its own, not because I think it doesnt fit here but because I think people have so much to say about transport issues in cork…Quote:True, but aren’t we wandering a bit away from the architecture side of things here? But if no-one else has any oblections…@phatman wrote:
True, but aren’t we wandering a bit away from the architecture side of things here? But if no-one else has any oblections…
a comment so good you had to post it twice…
I entirely agree, this site is for architecture really but if someone has an alternate site to throw up a thread on transport and add in a link here then we would be set
Will cut and paste links to the major issues and previous contributions from this thread on Saturday if thats ok; nuts in the office at the mo
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