Developments in Cork

Originally posted by PUG – Article elsewhere in the paper stating that Councillor Ciaran Lynch was tabling a motion to J Gavin to initiate a feasibility study into building a muli discipline decent sized stadium in the docklands – I say we all give him a hand, email his website or get him to set up some petition type email link to get everyone involved

I would gladly sign up to such a petition. Anyone have an e-mail address for Clr Lynch?

@Ebeck wrote:

Originally posted by PUG – Article elsewhere in the paper stating that Councillor Ciaran Lynch was tabling a motion to J Gavin to initiate a feasibility study into building a muli discipline decent sized stadium in the docklands – I say we all give him a hand, email his website or get him to set up some petition type email link to get everyone involved

I would gladly sign up to such a petition. Anyone have an e-mail address for Clr Lynch?

😎 Cllr. Ciaran Lynch is one of the most approchable, helpful people in City Hall
email: clynch@corkcity.ie
Tel: 086 8562600

😎 Cork City manager, Joe Gavin is to seek approval from Councillors on Monday night to purchase St. Lukes Church for the sum of 690,000 euro.
The manager was working behind the scenes for the past few months to purchase the Church from the individual who bought it in 2003. The price to be paid is the same as the purchase price in 2003.
Joe Gavin is currently negotiating with the owners of lands on nearby Mahony’s Avenue to provide a city park as part of the regeneration of the St.Lukes area.

:rolleyes: Cllr.B.Bermingham’s inclusion on an all expenses paid junket to San Francisco seems to have gone to his head, he wants to “unstraighten” Patrick’s Hill and make it like Lombard Street.
Quote; ”Often billed as the “crookedest street,” “Lombard Street is San Francisco’s- and America’s best known crookedest street. The steep, hilly street was created with sharp curves to switchback down the one-way hill past beautiful Victorian mansions, [built with eight switchbacks on a 40-degree slope]”. The street is paved with bricks and is an amazing site to see. Hordes of tourists come every year to see this famous street”

He also wants, “The Installation of the unique San Francisco’s Cable Car from a suitable location in St. Patrick Street to the summit and return.’

All this from a Councillor that is incapable of getting a pothole filled, Fine Gael must be very proud?

🙂 Remember T&C Partnership 5-8 Blackmore Lane, Sullivans Quay from past posts on this therad?Cork City Council in accordance with Section 48 of the Planning act are to institute court proceedings against them for the recovery of planning contributions.

:rolleyes: Cllr.B.Bermingham’s inclusion on an all expenses paid junket to San Francisco seems to have gone to his head, he wants to “unstraighten” Patrick’s Hill and make it like Lombard Street.
Quote; ”Often billed as the “crookedest street,” “Lombard Street is San Francisco’s- and America’s best known crookedest street. The steep, hilly street was created with sharp curves to switchback down the one-way hill past beautiful Victorian mansions, [built with eight switchbacks on a 40-degree slope]”. The street is paved with bricks and is an amazing site to see. Hordes of tourists come every year to see this famous street”

He also wants, “The Installation of the unique San Francisco’s Cable Car from a suitable location in St. Patrick Street to the summit and return.’

All this from a Councillor that is incapable of getting a pothole filled, Fine Gael must be very proud?

What a nutcase 😀 Stupidest plan I’ve ever heard for Cork. A cable car? Up a crooked Patricks Hill?

Wow

/edited to include a quote

I’m sure someone’s thrown that out as an idea every year since I was a kid. The worst thing is you hear people throwing around phrases about it attracting tourists. No tourist is going to come to go on a cable car. Spend the substantial amount it would cost turning the Crawfoed into the best gallery for contemporary Irish art and you may attract tourists (and at worst would have saleable assets if it didn’t work), but building a cable car to attract tourists?

Realistically,

• There aren’t enough tourists in the city to justify it
• There aren’t enough people living on top of the hill to justify it
• There aren’t enough reasons to go to the top of the hill to justify it

Maybe, if a lot of the land around Collins Barracks was turned to apartments, but even then you can add to that list the fact that the residents of the hill would justifiably object to a cable car outside their front doors and that it would still be unnecessary.

Out of interest, how much does a cable car system cost to install? I have a suspicion that it would be enough to replace the entire city bus fleet and possibly buy enough extra buses to double services. If this is the best our politicians can come up with, God help us…

Dogs Home.

[*]There aren’t enough tourists in the city to justify it
[*]There aren’t enough people living on top of the hill to justify it
[*]There aren’t enough reasons to go to the top of the hill to justify it
QUOTE]

I’m not totally against the cable car idea (or a funnicular train). Lisbon, Madrid, Budapest and Barcelona (and probably many other cities I haven’t been to) have them and they ARE a tourist attraction. Every city needs 5 or 6 brain dead tourist things to do and a cable car / funnicular is always a good one to have. I can’t see why a funicular / tram should cost that much, a cable car might be pricey though.

As for there not being enough tourists – that’s a chicken and egg tbing. Build it and you will have more tourists. I’ve gone on the version in the 4 cities listed above – none were v spectacular but if you are visiting for a weekend you feel obliged to try it. As for there not being enough things at the top to justify it, again this is true but I’m sure there would be coffee shops / bars / restaurants to beat the band from enterprising locals as soon as you opened such a thing. The barrio alto in Lisbon (a thriving bar / restaurant district in a similar place) would be a good template. I admit there are more pressing uses for city funds but we could do worse also.

BTW – re Stadium, this is my main ambition for Cork. It is also, pardon the horrible Americanism, a “no-brainer”. I e-mailed Ciaran Lynch to offer congrats on doing this and he has promised to keep me posted. I am completely apolitical but this is the kind of thing that might encourage me to fire a first/second preference his way come May………….

@jungle wrote:

Where is the money going to come from?

Central Government Lobbying,Private Enterprise,Cork Chamber of Commerce businesses when they realise that everyone in Cork is off to Killarney / Dublin / Thomond / London for concerts,sports events and shopping etc.As is currently the case.

I’m assuming that a cable car is going to cost in the region of E30m to construct and suggesting it could be better used elsewhere.

You are assuming a lot about a cable car for 30m or a funicular railway which BTW were built all over Europe 100+ years ago – its not a new science.Cork actually had an extensive tram system which right now are being re-integrated in U.S. Cities yes the car dependent U.S. is re-introducing trolly busses ah la San Francisco.
Even Houston Texas has a Luas line which is being expanded.

You want to spend it on tourism? Try making the Crawford Art Gallery something that people will come to from around Ireland to see.

Is it open Sundays even along with the Museum in Fitzgerald Park ? Is it likely to attract visitors used to The Tate Modern,Musee De Orsee,The Baltic Mills,Albert Dock,Collins Barracks,Royal Hospital ? Hardly.

You want to spend it on the city’s transport infrastructure? Giving the city a workable bus service is a bit more meaningful than spending on something that will transport maybe 100 people per hour up Patrick’s Hill.

Cork has serious trouble getting any money to invest in the city or county, what we can’t afford to do is squander it on projects that are of limited benefit to the city.

You really want to attract tourists to Cork? Here’s a suggestion. Many of the city’s attractions actually lie in towns that are a short distance outside – Blarney Castle, Midleton Distillery, Cobh Heritage Centre, Ballincollig Powder Mills. How about a tourist card that gives people 3 day usage of public transport to visit these places and a reduction on entry when they’re there. It works in Helsinki and Madrid, no reason it can’t be part of the Cork package. It might do a bit more to attract inbound tourists than a cable car, which would probably be unknown outside Ireland anyway,

Exactly most of the county of Corka attractions are outside the city – We are talking abot the city to keep tourists enjoying City atractiojns,pubs,restaurants,shops,hotels,newsagents etc. not send the money West ?
Cork needs attractions,ideas,innovation,excitement not buses and apartments.

I don’t lack vision for what can be achieved in Cork, but I do demand that we are sensible in our approach to our vision. Pie in the sky projects will never attract central government funding because they’ll fail on the cost-benefit analysis. Let’s try to get money that we actually have a hope of receiving.

Sensible ? Would Columbus have found America if someone said it was’nt sensible ? Cork is being left behind and no one here does anything about it – its happening slowly and surely.Visit Dublin some weekend,it has the facilities and is getting better facilities ALL the time in every field.Everey weekend ther is something on worth doing be it sport music or theatre etc.

Pie in the sky ? Was’nt The Eiffel Tower Pie in the sky ? The space needle Seattle ? The Astrodome Houston ?
The Pompodou Centre Paris ? The Funkturm Berlin ? London Eye ?

Cork has massive potential but zero ambition on a european scale not to mention a world scale.

@DubinCork wrote:

Central Government Lobbying,Private Enterprise,Cork Chamber of Commerce businesses when they realise that everyone in Cork is off to Killarney / Dublin / Thomond / London for concerts,sports events and shopping etc.As is currently the case.

Central Government will not fund it. It won’t pass any form of cost-benefit analysis. Private Enterprise will not fund it. It won’t be profitable.

I fail to see how a cable car up Patrick’s Hill will encourage people to stay in the city for concerts, sports, events and shopping. Now, if you’d suggested spending the money on a multi-discipline sports stadium or events centre, that is more likely to see government, if not private funding.

@DubinCork wrote:

You are assuming a lot about a cable car for 30m or a funicular railway which BTW were built all over Europe 100+ years ago – its not a new science.Cork actually had an extensive tram system which right now are being re-integrated in U.S. Cities yes the car dependent U.S. is re-introducing trolly busses ah la San Francisco.
Even Houston Texas has a Luas line which is being expanded.

LUAS cost €32m per km. That was using an established technology at a time when construction costs were lower. While the technology is substantially differentthe whole cost of laying tracks is there. You also need to put in place a winching mechanism. If anything, I’d say it was an underestimate.

Again, you’re broadening the issue. I’ve often posted in favour of Light Rail for Cork. I’ve suggested a number of alignments. But a light rail system is more obviously justifiable in terms of its benefits to the city.

@DubinCork wrote:

Is it open Sundays even along with the Museum in Fitzgerald Park ? Is it likely to attract visitors used to The Tate Modern,Musee De Orsee,The Baltic Mills,Albert Dock,Collins Barracks,Royal Hospital ? Hardly.

It’s closed on Sunday, but that can be changed. Realistically, you’re not going to be able to compete with the Tate Modern or the Musee D’Orsay. Even the last places on your list don’t do this. What I suggested was giving a focus towards building up the best collection of Irish Art from the last 50-60 years. It’s an achievable ambition and would attract in a number of visitors from around Ireland if properly marketed.

@DubinCork wrote:

Exactly most of the county of Corka attractions are outside the city – We are talking abot the city to keep tourists enjoying City atractiojns,pubs,restaurants,shops,hotels,newsagen ts etc. not send the money West ?

Cork has plenty of attractions in limited range of the city. What the city needs to do is make sure it can be a base for people who want to see these while on a short break. People will be able to go to Blarney, Midleton or Cobh, but will base themselves in the city and use the city’s hotels and restaurants. Nobody is going to go on a weekend break to Midleton or Blarney. Cork doesn’t attract many. Put the whole lot into a single package and you have a product you can push.

@DubinCork wrote:

Cork needs attractions,ideas,innovation,excitement not buses and apartments.

That depends on whether you think that the city should cater to its inhabitants or tourists first.

@DubinCork wrote:

Sensible ? Would Columbus have found America if someone said it was’nt sensible ? Cork is being left behind and no one here does anything about it – its happening slowly and surely.Visit Dublin some weekend,it has the facilities and is getting better facilities ALL the time in every field.Everey weekend ther is something on worth doing be it sport music or theatre etc.

Pie in the sky ? Was’nt The Eiffel Tower Pie in the sky ? The space needle Seattle ? The Astrodome Houston ?
The Pompodou Centre Paris ? The Funkturm Berlin ? London Eye ?

Cork has massive potential but zero ambition on a european scale not to mention a world scale.

This is an argument about the cable-car, not all potential projects in Cork. Each one has to be assessed on its merits The money doesn’t come from nowhere, it has to be justified. Have a look at the history of Montreal in the 70s and 80s if you want to see a city that went for a number of grand projects and nearly destroyed itself in the process. There is a limited pot at Central Government level. What Cork needs to do is work out how to get its just share. Proposing projects that won’t get through CBA is not the way to do this.