Derelict Rural Dwellings

Am I correct in thinking that some councils in N.I or the DoE give grants towards doing up old farmhouses as residences?

It certainly makes economic sense once the old ones aren’t too far gone.

The only thing is that most of the houses let go to rack and ruin were generally small and normally were pretty shabby workmanship.

I think in the north, its more a case of the old two storey farmhouse being replaced by a more recent bungalow. Almost certain that I know of someone who got a grant to do up an old one on her father’s land.

A bit of a grant would level up the playing field a little alright. In this country having any old property is all a bit of a nightmare with the amount responsibility and the lack of help from the government.

There must be several hundred farmhouses and cottages in various states of dereliction in every county in Ireland. If there was a really good grant scheme here for restoring them & bringing them back from the brink it would take off some of the pressure for new one-offs, which mostly look horrible in the landscape (i think).

An organisation called ‘Leader’ used to give grants for restoring old farmhouses. Do a search on them. Dunno what they were like on states of dereliction or making sure the buildings were restored in a historically correct way.

All the local authorities have grant schemes for works to protected structures to be administered by the Conservation Officer, but they usually have trouble giving away all their annual grant allocation cos of lack of resources to properly adminster it. Some countys don’t even have a Conservation Officer. If more resources were allocated, this scheme could be extended to derelict farmhouses & buildings of vernacular interest.

At least if the grant comes from the local authority you know the work will be done according to Best Conservation Practice (cos it will be part of the conditions of the grant) – so no plastic windows, no shiny fibre-cement roof slates, no heavy raised pointing to stonework.

Originally posted by Devin

At least if the grant comes from the local authority you know the work will be done according to Best Conservation Practice (cos it will be part of the conditions of the grant) – so no plastic windows, no shiny fibre-cement roof slates, no heavy raised pointing to stonework.

Well thanks very much for running down me line of business, but I have always been very aware that my product sells itself on the price savings it gives to customers.

As you say yourself: if the council wants a higher standard of building they really need to start looking at helping people out. I am just as happy selling timber windows only that most couples can’t afford them. :rolleyes:

Grants really are the only one to solve it

.

That sounds very clever.

Turn on your e-mail function in your user profile.

PVC King, you are undermining individuals who come to this forum in earnest for advice and information on built environment issues.

I agree Devin, and I couldn’t help but notice PVC King did not comment on the earlier thread ”Irelands says no to PVC windows”.

He gave me a helpful answer in the ‘Ireland says no to PVC’ thread.

Thanks for your support Wexford Planner and Frank,

some people on this site are just pure paranoid it looks

Well you are kinda waving a red rag at a bull here with that name like that – you might as well be called Patrick Gallagher 😉

PVC King

Maybe he runs a fetish shop??

Who was Patrick Gallaher, did he make cigerettes?

You can’t go anywhere with this smoking ban and now PVC windows are being attacked as if they killed people.

I don’t have any Shop Rory, not yet.

well you could at least know youre subject PVC k, graham had to correct you about the 4 courts.

Think it was Diaspora who raised the Four Courts…

PVC King – assuming you are someway involved in the PVC or window industry, do you have any problems in replacing original timber frames with PVC in older structures? Where do you stand on this issue, do you ‘draw the line’ anywhere?
Do you or the industry at large specifically inform clients as to the life of the material, either in new build or older structures?

Originally posted by Graham Hickey
PVC King – assuming you are someway involved in the PVC or window industry, do you have any problems in replacing original timber frames with PVC in older structures? Where do you stand on this issue, do you ‘draw the line’ anywhere?
Do you or the industry at large specifically inform clients as to the life of the material, either in new build or older structures?

I sell and arrange the fitting of windows, working mostly with local builders and through word of mouth sales as well.
I try to sell timber windows because the margins are much the same so if I sell double glazed hardwood I make a better profit.
I don’t like to see PVC going into old buildings but if I don’t sell them someone else would, it is a competitive patch where I’m from. We generally say that PVC windows will last as long as the other joinery like internal doors and wooden floors.

I think its time to return to Wexford Planners original topic,

What can be done to renovate derelict rural houses?

@wexfordplanner wrote:

Thanks for all the helpful replies.

I was wondering what people would think of a possible re-working of the Part 5 Social / Affordable Housing. As this currently really only applies to urban projects / zoned land, could a new section be added to local authorities Housing Strategy about restoring derelict dwellings. Instead of giving 20% or a financial contribution, is it posible to give developers another option, to restore derelict rural dwellings instead. This would not only contribute to the housing supply in rural areas, but would also clear eyesores, protect our built heritage and would enable developers to make a true contribution to the housing supply in this country? A booklet could be produced for each LA with details of derelict dwellings such as owners, things to be protected, projected costs etc….., to make the process a bit easier.

What do people think? Would this work?

I have been researching grants for restoring derelict Irish dwellings in connection with a long-term project of my own. They are out there, but you have to look quite hard, and there is a distinct lack of co-ordinated approach, which is undoubtedly contributing to the high number of derelict dwellings around. I am not sure if it is still available, but one of the less positive initiatives I have seen during my research is the offer of a €10,000 tax incentive from the government towards construction of a new dwelling (in place of an existing one – why not just repair what’s there?), to encourage people to stay in rural areas.

On a more positive note, the Irish Georgian Society has a summary of some of the grants available, see: http://www.irish-architecture.com/igs/conservation_advice/funding_period_house.html

Your suggestion for re-working Part 5 sounds like a good idea – it certainly ought to be the case – an additional benefit would be a reduction in the number of new-builds. However, I would prefer to see the restorations undertaken by people with appropriate skills and knowledge (ie in traditional methods and materials), rather than letting your average developer loose on a diminisihing and fragile resource.

My own idea is to restore derelict dwellings (using traditional materials/techniques, and sustainable technologies) and rent them out as affordable housing. (Seems like the perfect partner for the Part 5 idea :D) The multiple benefits (ie provision of affordable housing, protection of Irish heritage, bringing buildings back into use, rural regeneration, implementation of sustainable technology, use of sustainably-produced materials, etc) make the project an attractive option for grant-funding on several counts and from various sources. The main problems I am experiencing with getting this off the ground are: a) currently being located in UK, so it is difficult to do the research and make personal contact with the relevant people]http://www.pureeire.org[/color]

@wexfordplanner wrote:

… I think the grants which you refer to are mainly for Georgian Housing and Protected Structures, it is doubtful that any rural derelict houses would qualify under these schemes??

Yes, there are those limitations, unfortunately, but there are many listed (supposedly protected) structures which are derelict and would qualify for grants. It’s sad that listing them fails to prompt any action to preserve them. South Tipperary CoCo (and others, I presume) intend to carry out a survey of all the thatched and formerly thatched structures in the county (only ~50 left, apparently) and all of them will be listed (as outlined in the Heritage Plan).

The survey was due for completion in 2004, but it has been delayed. South Tip CoCo now has no Heritage Officer (or Conservation Officer), so the Council is apparently appointing consultants to do the survey. I am extremely skeptical about whether or not listing the thatched structures that remain will help encourage their preservation, as this does not appear to have made a difference in the past, despite very high potential fines (€12,000 per day) for owners who fail to protect a listed structure from decay.

I agree that something needs to be done, because it’s such a waste of Ireland’s heritage/vernacular architecture that these dwellings are not in use. Their sympathetic restoration could provide sustainable housing for local people which would enhance the landscape, rather than scar it. This is why it is my mission to do all that I can to ensure the protection and restoration of such buildings. pure eire

Hello again,

What counts as derelict? Well, according to the definition of derelict in my dictionary, all of the above qualify.

derelict adj. 1. deserted or abandoned, as by an owner, occupant, etc. 2. falling into ruins. … 5. property deserted or abandoned by and owner, occupant, etc. …

Do you have a different view, wexfordplanner? Does your view affect which properties you think should be restored, or, to put it another way, do you think there’s a point beyond which restoration is not worthwhile?

I’m interested in anyone’s thoughts on this issue – let me know, it’d be nice to hear from you… pureeire

I agree, wexfordplanner. It appears that Irish heritage is suffering partly because of society’s dependence on the car, which is a worrying reflection of priorities. I hope that solutions can be found so that as many derelict buildings as possible can be put to use in imaginative ways without compromising the heritage value of the properties.

I don’t know of any classification system for derelict buildings, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t one. The only thing I could think of which would have an ‘official’ classification is the Derelict Sites Act 1990 (section 3, definition of a derelict site), which gives three alternative criteria, one of which states that a site is derelict if there are any structures on it which are in a “ruinous, derelict or dangerous condition”, but this is still subjective. In the absence of anything else a simple definition of derelict buildings could define buildings which are not occupied or maintained as derelict, but of course this is also difficult to determine conclusively and/or consistently. I suppose a classification system, classifying buildings according to how derelict they are, would be even more arbitrary, unless very clearly defined.

I’ve just bought a newly-published book on Irish cottages, which may interest you if you don’t already know of it: The Disappearing Irish Cottage, by Clive Symmons and Seamus Harkin, see: Wordwell Books

I hope my ramblings are helpful – I’d be really interested in reading your thesis when it’s finished. pure eire