Cycling in Irish Cities
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Will definitely go on that Dublin City Cycle. I too missed last year’s, but heard good things about it.
Will check out that bicycle festival too.
My current pet hate as i cycle through phoenix park every morning and evening is the seeming complete disregard/lack of understanding/ complete ignorance to the concept of a bicycle path! In the evenings i see more people cycling on the road, it’s just not worth using the perfectly good cyclepath due to the sheer numbers of prams, children, dogs, joggers, rollerbladers, power walkers, groups of pedestrians, fat pedestrians. It’s turning me into a narky f****er i don’t want to be , shouting at everybody i cycle by.:(
@Bago wrote:
My current pet hate as i cycle through phoenix park every morning and evening is the seeming complete disregard/lack of understanding/ complete ignorance to the concept of a bicycle path! In the evenings i see more people cycling on the road, it’s just not worth using the perfectly good cyclepath due to the sheer numbers of prams, children, dogs, joggers, rollerbladers, power walkers, groups of pedestrians, fat pedestrians. It’s turning me into a narky f****er i don’t want to be , shouting at everybody i cycle by.:(
Agreed, Bago. While the bike path surface in the PP has improved lately, it’s too much of a headache to use- meandering pedestrians, rollerbladers, etc., not to mention the almost total absence of light at night due to the weak street lamps. The OPW has a policy of keeping the PP as close to a rural idyll as possible, but this invariably means that the facilities are sub-standard for cyclists. I was out at a concert in Farmleigh on Monday night and cycling back towards town was a nightmare. At some of the junctions, especially at the roundabouts, markings for the bike lanes disappear totally, and it is a fact that about 80% of cycling accidents occur at junctions. Like you, Bago, I ended up using the road more than the bike lanes. It’s a pity, as the PP has the potential to be a paradise for cyclists.
I know that the OPW has commissioned a study of the PP traffic with a view to improving the general layout. Here’s hoping they prioritise cycling and pedestrian movements over private cars.I wonder has there ever been a prosecution by gardai over misuse of cycle lanes by others… I know what way Id bet on that one:rolleyes:
“Driving on a cycle track” is one of the 31 new penalty points offences that came into force recently (one penalty point). It strikes me that it could be used for all those people who park in the cycle lane because they couldn’t be bothered walking a wee bit further. After all, in order to park there, they had to drive into it. Or do you think that would work? Could the clampers report them to the Gardai and/or provide the Gardai with the digital photos they seem to take when they clamp someone?
i am not trying to belittle you frustration in cycling through the city , but looking for garda enforcement to help cyclists will never work . Not because our gardai are any lazier than policemen in other countries but because almost all the cycle lanes are a joke.
People drive through cycle lanes , and park in them , even though they know it is selfish simply because they can.
if you want to improve things the solution is pretty simple. Move the cycle lanes to one side of the road only , and seperate the space from the rest of the road with concrete bumps , making sure they are just high enough to discourage all but the most hardy of drivers from entering the lane. The ones used along the docklands are just right.This cycle lane problem is something that truly mistifies me. Such small concrete blips are cheap. It doesn’t mean removing car lanes (god forbid – actually god did forbid any actions to impeded car use – little known fact . He said this right after denouncing just about anything fun) .
cycle lanes are being put in places where the traffic lanes are particulary wide for the most part , so nobody is losing out .Instead we have these red strips that actually seem to attract danger instead of warding off.
My current pet hate as i cycle through phoenix park every morning and evening is the seeming complete disregard/lack of understanding/ complete ignorance to the concept of a bicycle path!
That’s because it’s poorly conceived and designed. For most of it’s length, it looks to all intents and purposes like a normal path and it’s right beside a similar path so it’s not surprising that many make the mistake of walking/jogging on it. It’s like when you have handle on a swing door people will try to pull the door open even if you put a “push” sign above the handle. If I’m going along Chesterfield Av., I always use the road as it’s far easier and safer to navigate the roundabouts and junctions. Off the avenue it’s not an issue.
Probably off topic but is there anyone who actively manages the park? It feels neglected in terms of development or promotion. There are so many simple and cheap things which could be done to make it a superb amenity for the city. For example, banning cars from all the roads south of Chesterfield Av. would hugely improve the place; most of the roads here are narrow and twisty and unsafe for car going faster than 20km/h anyway. Provide more concessions for kiosks for small shops/cafes. Put pressure on the guards to actually police the park which contains their headquarters; bike robbery and smash and grabs on parked cars are relatively common (I’ve suffered both). Or at least provide some sort of secure car/bike parking facilities. This would have the additional benefit of taking parked cars off the side of the roads. Change the bylaw to allow at least one Dublin bus route from the centre of town through the park with a couple a stops in the park itself to encourage visits to the park. Advertise the park and hold special events in it. I never appreciated the place until I started using it regularly a few years ago. Now I love it but it could do with attention from DCC – some sort of action plan and some proactive management.
jimg-
PP is the responsibility of the OPW, not of DCC. I actually made a submission to the traffic study on many of the points you raise, such as car parking, bus routes, etc. I know, for example, that the OPW isn’t keen on letting buses through as it might set a precedent and the guard their turf very carefully.a boyle-
The Guards are the traffic enforcement body in the city, so I don’t think the expectation of enforcement is misplaced. Well, in theory anyway.
Also, I tend to think segregated lanes are an admission of failure. In other words, in an ideal world there’s be no need for lanes at all. (I have a funny picture on this that I’ll post later.)cobalt-
I heard of a case in Britain (I think) where a driver argued successfully in court that although he was parked in a cycle lane, as nobody had seen him drive onto it, nobody could prove that he had. 😡Don’t forget the Dublin City Cycle, everyone! 8pm this evening.
no no don’t get me wrong . i don’t think that it is ok that gardai jsut plain don’t bother. I just think it is a case of what is practical.
I definetely think that the traffic corps should be running around handing out fines left right and center : not yielding , not stopping, using the right turn lane just to get in front of everyone going straight , cyclists not wearing a helmet ,etc etc.
But i have to disagree regarding setting aside a cycle path , surely that is a good idea. They give a perception of safety which is probably the most important thing to encourage more cyclists. If people perceive it to be safe , they will feel safe , and far more will use the cycle lanes. Then i think you will find people respecting them more, as they will be used , which currently they are not.
@a boyle wrote:
Move the cycle lanes to one side of the road only , and seperate the space from the rest of the road with concrete bumps , making sure they are just high enough to discourage all but the most hardy of drivers from entering the lane……Instead we have these red strips that actually seem to attract danger instead of warding off.
I have 2 problems with the concrete barriers:
(a) The lanes are usually narrow, so if you get stuck behind a slooooooow cyclist it’s very difficult to pass them out]weeks[/I], again often not easy to swerve around!I quite like the red strips insofar as when trying to swerve round the cars, pedestrians etc. at least the red strip is something to gesture at , to show them they’re encroaching on cyclists’ space. Having said that, many of them are really badly designed/positioned.
@ctesiphon wrote:I heard of a case in Britain (I think) where a driver argued successfully in court that although he was parked in a cycle lane, as nobody had seen him drive onto it, nobody could prove that he had.
:rolleyes:
@a boyle wrote:
almost all the cycle lanes are a joke.
Nail + hammer. Crap designs by rd engineers who couldnt give a toss, LA’s that think the tracks are only to be used by either misfits or foreigners, and a general thatcherite mindset of “anybody who is still using public transport by 30 is a failure”. 😡
cobalt wrote:I have 2 problems with the concrete barriers:
(a) The lanes are usually narrow, so if you get stuck behind a slooooooow cyclist it’s very difficult to pass them out]That is why i thought they should stick the two cycle lanes to one side of the road, so that you would have that wiggle room to overtake someone.
Also i meant the kind of bumps along the docks. this is what i am talking about , a series of bumps so that cyclists can easily get in and out of the laneway.
@a boyle wrote:
I definetely think that the traffic corps should be running around handing out fines left right and center : not yielding , not stopping, using the right turn lane just to get in front of everyone going straight , cyclists not wearing a helmet ,etc etc.
Not wearing a helmet is not against the law.
@a boyle wrote:
But i have to disagree regarding setting aside a cycle path , surely that is a good idea. They give a perception of safety which is probably the most important thing to encourage more cyclists. If people perceive it to be safe , they will feel safe , and far more will use the cycle lanes. Then i think you will find people respecting them more, as they will be used , which currently they are not.
Removing every motorised vehicle from the roads also gives a perception of safety, to give just one (admittedly far fetched) example.
Also, the pic you posted shows yet another design flaw in bike lanes. the concrete bits are aligned in one direction only, so getting off that lane is easy mid-lane, but joining it mid-lane is impossible unless the cyclist stops and turns more than 90 degrees. hardly encouraging.
Here’s that picture anyway- now I really must go. Gotta get into my bright pink lycra bodysuit.:)
@ctesiphon wrote:
Not wearing a helmet is not against the law.
Removing every motorised vehicle from the roads also gives a perception of safety, to give just one (admittedly far fetched) example.
Also, the pic you posted shows yet another design flaw in bike lanes. the concrete bits are aligned in one direction only, so getting off that lane is easy mid-lane, but joining it mid-lane is impossible unless the cyclist stops and turns more than 90 degrees. hardly encouraging.
Here’s that picture anyway- now I really must go. Gotta get into my bright pink lycra bodysuit.:)
In that case think it should be against the law to cycle without a helmet, i have had way too many near misses …
yes yes if you get rid of cars you make it safer , but you need to get people’s confidence of cycling being safe before you will convince people to cycle. Telling people that cycling is safe if they leave their cars behind is a chicken and egg situation that is just not going to wash.
Good point regards the attached photo , pity the dockland development people didn’t spot it. in truth you would only need to place such bumps every 3 / 4 feet . just enough to keep a car out of the way.
In that case think it should be against the law to cycle without a helmet, i have had way too many near misses …
Why stop there? It should be against the law to cycle without a helmet, kneepads, elbow pads, torso armour and ankle supports. :rolleyes: If that saves a few injuries then extend the law to cover pedestrians too. I’m sure there are a few injuries to pedestrians which could have been prevented by helmets.
if that is how you feel fair enough, but after being knocked over twice i wouldn’t dare cycle anywhere without a helmet.
@ctesiphon wrote:
Also, the pic you posted shows yet another design flaw in bike lanes. the concrete bits are aligned in one direction only, so getting off that lane is easy mid-lane, but joining it mid-lane is impossible unless the cyclist stops and turns more than 90 degrees.
Yes, this is my problem with these. By the time you’ve stopped the bike and manoeuvred back into the lane, whoever you passed out has caught up again (unless you cycle for a good bit on the road to build up enough distance so that even when you stop to get back onto the lane they’re still well behind – and having to stay on the road like this defeats the purpose of the cycle lane in the first place). The lanes are just hopelessly inflexible the way they’re built at the moment.
cobalt that why i thought of putting both cycles lanes to one side of the road . also i meant the bumps as a means to keep cars out not keep bicycles in. these bumps could be spaced out much more, and faced off parralel instead of at an angle, would that work ??
Both tracks on one side of the road would certainly work to give enough width to pass, but I’m not sure of the implications for actually travelling – e.g. if you wanted to make a left turn and your cycle track was actually on the right hand side of the road, you’d have to cross all the traffic going both directions to do so. Although at a glance you might think that’s no different from the current situation where you’re on the left of the road and want to turn right, in fact it is worse because you’ve not got the benefit of filter arrows etc. that are set up to allow cars to turn, as would be the case if the bike were on the same side of the road as the cars. You’d end up having to cross with the pedestrians. And there’s never going to be continuity between all the streets for which side of the road the cycle lane is on. It’s a nice thought, but I think it’d end up making cycling desperately cumbersome, so people whose primary motivation in cycling is to get around the city efficiently just would stick on the road with the cars. And then the car drivers would get frustrated because we’re not in the cycle lanes.
A parallel rather than angled barrier, well spaced out, would certainly be better than what’s currently there in the photo, but as I said before, my personal preference would be for no barrier – just proper disciplining of the cars so they don’t venture into the cycle track – i.e. religious awarding of the penalty points for this offence every time it happens. My preference is partly based on the glass problem, which I have to say is a bit of a bugbear of mine. No barrier means the cycle track would get swept as the sweeping machines go round the road verges (and also crushed by the drivers who inevitably do stray into the cycle track).
In fairness, I find cars better about observing cycle tracks on the road than pedestrians are about observing cycle tracks on the pavement. In general, pedestrians seem to wander round oblivious to their surroundings, whereas at least most drivers are paying some attention!
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