Cycling in Irish Cities
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@hutton wrote:
N11 does seem like a poor joke in terms of serving the cyclist. If its design arose from form following function, then one can only suspect that the primary function was to clear the road of cyclists – not so much for cyclists, but for the convenience of motorists.
I always thought about how close this route is to the hospital; it needs to be it is lethal.
JIMG,
I have no doubt that you are a rational person. The reason we have rules of the road is to cater for the irrantional people. Why have a legally enforceable 50kph speed limit in built up areas? Because there are idiots out there who believe 80kph / 100kph is quite reasonable if you have to get from point A to point B as quickly as possible, and as we all know the law doesn’t prevent some idiots from speeding anyway.
So we change the law so that cyclists can pass through a red light if it is safe to proceed! Where does this leave pedestrians? Once there is any doubt things become messy. The rule in the mind of many irrational cyclists may well become “red light doesn’t mean a lot I can safely pass between those pedestrians and get across the junction before the light goes green again.”
I do symphatise with cyclists and while I do not cycle anymore I did a couple of years ago in a provincial town. I bought a bike again just over a year ago brought it out on a country road a couple of mornings, gave it up as too dangerous, so I can only imagine what it is like cycling in Dublin.
The basic lack of respect for road users by road users is the real problem. All motorists are not ignorant, cyclist hunting morons. Many motorists, cyclists and indeed pedestrians show blatant disregard for others and this can only be solved by education and provision of the correct infrastructure. Our problem is we lack the provision of both in equal measure.
There is not a “lack of respect” for road users by other road users, only a response to an environment. There is an environment in Irish cities where cyclists are expected to use a system – the motorised traffic system – designed for a totally different form of transport. The result of this is that, like water taking the channel of least resistance, the cyclist is sqeezed onto pavements, into pedestrian streets and into the spaces beyond red lights where traffic is stopped. I don’t do these things out of a “lack of respect” for other road users (or because I am lawless), but because the system dictates to a large extent that I do.
I probably haven’t convinced non-cyclists but if you want to understand my perspective, consider your own behaviour as a pedestrian. Do you ever “break” red lights? I.e. cross the road when the red man is displayed? Do you ever cross the road away from pedestrian crossings? Do you ever step off the footpath and walk on the edge of the street to get past a crowd or “overtake” slower pedestrians? Do you ever cross a street away from a crossing to save yourself a 300 yard walk? If you answer yes to any or all of these questions, I suggest your outrage at the idea of cyclists not following the letter of the law is hypocritical.
Pedestrians are often forced to break regulations. I used to live in an apartment off Capel St. and there wasn’t a SINGLE pedestrian crossing anywhere around the entire block. If I were to obey the letter of the law, I would have had to call a taxi to ferry me from that block to across the street. Instead I waited ’til there was no traffic and then crossed the street. Would this have outraged any observing motorists? Possibly. Did I care about “giving pedestrians a bad name”? Absolutely not – I was simply responding to the environment I found myself in.
Pedestrians and cyclists are in a very different category to motorised vehicles. It’s tolerable, in my opinion, for cyclists or pedestrians to deviate from the letter of the law because the risks associated with their actions are assumed by them alone. You could get pedantic with this point but statistics will prove that effectively this is the case. Motorists, while guiding several tonnes of machinery at speed, assume very little personal risk by being reckless around cities especially with the safety features of modern cars. Because of this there is NO equivalence, in my mind, between a pedestrian or cyclist doing something reckless and a motorists doing something reckless.
Fair points, jimg.
Why does cycling work so much better in Amsterdam than here? I felt safe and found it much more enjoyable. A lot of the bike lanes seemed to be physically separated from the road by a curb. I can’t put my finger on what the other differences were. Maybe there were fewer trucks and also the drivers were more aware of bikes.
Anyhow, maybe we should admit that we’ve made a mess of bike lanes and pay the dutch to come over and sort it out.
Hi all,
Looks like Devin touched a nerve here, no?
Some of the points made by jimg and Devin are interesting, but I’m not yet converted to the guerilla cause. Put simply, I disagree that taking the law into your own hands, even in a careful, non-threatening way, is required, never mind the debate on the morality of it. I’ve been cycling every day since friday paying particular attention (on foot of this discussion) to the dangers, temptations and inconveniences of the journeys, both within Dublin city centre and on the N11, and I can say that I never really had to consider breaking the law. I wonder whether the flexible interpreters of the law have a secret desire to see themselves as urban renegades? The cycling equivalent of Parkour? 😉jimg-
I do still think that motorists by and large have a tendency to tar all cyclists with the same brush, and so I still think that anyone cycling with abandon is to blame- each in a small but by no means non-exixtent way. Also, I don’t see the equivalence between the cyclist and the Fiesta- you compare brands with modes.
You make some good points about accidents between cyclists and pedestrians- when I expressed a desire for more law abiding cyclists above, it could just as easily have been applied to pedestrians. Again, as with cyclists, I have a measure of sympathy for pedestrians at junctions such as the Trinity interchange on Dame Street, but it still drives me nuts to see it. A bell makes a significant difference, but there are still many times when I think “If I see one more gormless stare from a flat-footed gombeen stuck like a bunny in the headlights…”. 😡 (If you’d guessed by now that I always [in town] wait for the green man before crossing the road as a pedestrian, you’d be right.)
I was impressed on a visit to Berlin last year to see how well the system worked there. A fairly well-designed bike lane network, good footpaths and well-located pedestrian crossing points, and users who stuck to their patch and were generally patient and courteous. Amsterdam is due a visit too in the near future.
Anyhow, I don’t mean to single out your points, but some of them were directly addressed and thus deserved response. One last thing- afaik, the rules of the road allow that, where a pedestrian crossing is not provided in easy reach, a pedestrian can cross legally at a break in the traffic. (I’ll have to check this.) Hope the taxis weren’t too expensive. 🙂Graham-
Your ‘morbid’ point was an interesting one. I ‘m always acutely aware of the dangers on the road and it regularly crosses my mind that something very nasty might happen. When I say ‘regularly’, I mean hardly a minute passes, at least in the city centre, when it’s not on my mind. Not in a morbid way, but just as a means of heightening my alertness to all the potential hazards in the environment. At this stage I know most of the pot-holes on my usual city centre routes, but the drivers opening doors, pedestrians stepping out, cars changing lanes without indicating, motorcycles in the bike lane, cyclists on the wrong side of the road- these all change daily. It’s essential to be attuned to the indicators of possible danger. Like a computer game, but with much higher stakes. I do sometimes think that I’ll expire in the saddle, but I’d like to think it’ll happen when I’m 110 years old, cresting a peak in the Pyrenees, on a tandem with a beautiful lady (she on the anterior seat).I think irjudge’s point about education was a very good one. Do all parties- pedestrian, cyclist, motorcyclist, motorist- know the rights and duties they and others have? A little less bullishness from us all might be a start.
Regards (for now).
On a more light-hearted note…
Sometimes I map my journeys around town. This from May 2002.
(A clue: the isthmus is South Great George’s Street in Dublin.)@ctesiphon wrote:
I’m not yet converted to the guerilla cause.
I was hoping it wouldn’t come across like that – it really isn’t! Everybody will respond differently to cycling conditions here. I am probably very little less law-abibing than you, ctesiphon. But a major factor for me is that I cannot cycle behind traffic for very long before the fumes do me in. So I’m always looking for minimally-trafficked or traffic-free routes. This doesn’t mean I resent car drivers as irjudge assumed. The streets are gorged with traffic, but I am philosophical about it. We can’t shut them out of the centre just yet because it would damage the economy and they have (for the most part) no other way of getting in.
Amsterdam is a dream. All the lanes are separate, and the sheer volume of people cycling makes it as ordinary as walking. It also helps that the city centre must have about 2% of the traffic volume Dublin has! But of course it’s also compact; so nobody would have to cycle the distance equivalent of say Dame Street to Tallaght to get home.
I would love to see the continental European type of cycling environment created in Irish cities. But some claim the system is not transferable to this part of the world…
Fair enough ctesiphon, if you generally wait at pedestrian crossings for the green man even when the road is clear, I don’t think we’ll ever see eye to eye on this. I think it might reflect a general attitude to rules and regulations. For example, you say you often have thoughts like “If I see one more gormless stare from a flat-footed gombeen stuck like a bunny in the headlights…” when you see pedestrians blocking your path while cycling. Funnily enough that sort of thing never bothers me all that much (even when I’m driving); it’s just pedestrians doing what they do; they’re not doing it to piss me off – and what’s the big deal if I have to slow down a little bit? – the extra few seconds added to my journey time is hardly going to affect my life. Even motorists would have to do a lot to get me annoyed. For the most part, simple mistakes can be understandable. For example, the other day: I’m flying along a short section of bicycle lane which uniquely for that part of town didn’t have any cars parked on it, driver trying to turn left from a minor road, main road chock a block, driver doesn’t glance right before advancing into a gap in the stationary traffic, spectacular braking/skid on my part ending with a “reverse wheelie” inches from the bonnet, driver gestures profuse apologies and looks as shaken as I am and I just cycle on. What’s to be achieved by getting worked into a frenzy of indignation in a situation like this?
As Devin says, it’s not a cause or anything like that. My motivations are simple – get from A to B as safely, quickly and comfortably (in that order) as possible.
Yikes jimg, if that incident didn’t put you off cycling nothing will!
I have the utmost sympathy for cyclists, especially in urban environments, and especially in Dublin! And most of the behaviour that I see daily is impressive: most are exceptionally cafeful (if only to protect themselves :)) including stopping at lights and indicating etc.
I really don’t know about the practice as described by yourself and Devin of cutting around junctions when lights are red; as neither a driver in the capital, nor a cyclist, it’s difficult to see the impact of this from a purely pedestrian perspective. The dismounting and use of pedestrian crossings seems a good compromise.
What does affect you though is cyclists turning corners directly into you without looking or slowing, and the practice of shooting out from junctions – a nasty, dangerous move.As a seasoned pedestrian :), personally I’ve no problem at all with cyclists using pedestrian spaces where the alternative is a dangerous road, or where provision simply has not been made for cyclists. As street users cyclists are much closer in nature to pedestrians than motorised traffic, and accordingly will gravitate towards such environments if forced to.
Non-mass level use of pedestrian areas by cyclists, including pavements, is acceptable up to a point I think – but crucially as long as the cyclist exercises a duty of care, which you are promoting jimg.The classic location in Dublin is the newly paved areas of St Stephen’s Green, an area that has roadways that are a nightmare for cyclists, but conversely has the most mouth-wateringly tempting pavements to race along 🙂
And this is exactly what constantly happens: cyslists boot it along here scaring the living daylights out of pedestrians, often leaving one spinning like a top in the wind generated and the fright induced – a totally unacceptable state of affairs.
I’ve every sympathy for cyclists forced to use the death trap that is the Green, and would be quite willing for them to use the pavements until/if this is sorted, but only as long as they respect other users.
As has been pointed out by everyone by now, this of course applies to all road users.As for pedestrians waiting for the little green man, it really is a must in a city like Dublin. People are so so stupid in the city centre it never fails to astound how two or three people aren’t killed every day, rather than that amount every year seemingly being the case.
If as a pedestrian you decide to break a light, everyone else follows suit, putting others in danger whatever about yourself.Another classic location is O’Connell Bridge outside Ballast House. The people on the Westmoreland St side can’t see the traffic moving round from behind them, so any time the people on the bridge side decide to move en masse upon seeing a brief window in the traffic, the Westmoreland side follow suit, despite not being able to see the incredibly dangerous buses and taxis swinging around this corner.
One’s short-sighted rushing across from the bridge is encouraging others to put themselves in extreme danger, potentially including motorists. This senario can be replicated right acorss the city and country at large.
To state the obvious, all road users must have their wits about them and exercise common sense.
i find the multi storey bike parks in amsterdam very amusing. storey after storey of bikes. i have never seen anything like it elsewhere.
The one outside Centraal Station is gas. I have a picture of it, which I’ll post it if I can.
Graham, I agree that there are maverick, irresponsible cyclists, who will tear along pedestrian-priority areas with seemingly no awareness of the danger they are constituting. While I don’t approve, it is an inevitable by-product of dire cycling conditions. If there were proper cycling conditions, such behaviour would be a lot more ‘unacceptable’.
With all the talk of the hundreds of € millions that traffic congestion is costing us in lost efficiency and contribution to carbon-emission fines, it reflects very badly on our government and local authorities to have done so little to provide for such an efficient and environmentally-friendly form of transport as cycling, and one which would do so much to improve amenity and general quality of life in urban areas.
With regard to crossing roads in the city as a pedestrian – yes, it’s getting more dangerous all the time, but I think the “common law†still operates to some extent, whereby if you decide to cross the road at a random point, the traffic will tend to slow up a bit (though obviously it depends on the street). Whereas if you try something like that in, say, London, you have to be prepared to burst into a sprint!
The (3-storey!) bike park at Centraal Station….now where did I leave it?
Damrak – divided into roughly equal parts pedestrian path, cycle lane, bus/tram way, and then other vehicles. Cough, dame street.
Crossing point, with ‘little green bike’.
Cycling is even pleasant in the rain!
The safest bicycle lane in Dublin at the moment is the Luas tracks. Its the easiest way to negotiate the quays and its a joy on Harcourt street.
Serioulsy though the absence of a dedicated bicycle lane on O’Connell Street is a disaster. Isn’t it supposed to be the widest main street in Europe or something and yet cannot accommodate bicyles. I guess we will have to wait until all multi personal motorised transportation machines (cars) are banned from a 1K radius of the spire for the streets of Dublin to be enjoyed again by all.
There actually is a supposed cycle lane on O’Connell Street – it’s a narrow band beside the median (both northbound and southbound). Unfortunately, it doesn’t extend the full length of the street, and it’s so badly marked that hardly anyone knows it’s there – probably added to by the fact that it’s the ‘outside’ (right hand) lane, rather than on the left as in most other cases.
For cyclists, it’s next to useless – motorists just drive in it.And two buses cannot fit comfortably side by side on the street without consuming it too – what a disaster.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone using it – cyclists just fit in on the roadway where they can.@manstein wrote:
Serioulsy though the absence of a dedicated bicycle lane on O’Connell Street is a disaster.
Totally true. Here was the chance to show the way and create a proper separated cycling lane for the centre of Dublin, like the ones you see on the Continent. God knows there was enough space to do it (an excuse you often hear when separated cycle lanes are suggested is that it would mean losing too much road space).
What’s the story Mitchell & Associates / Dublin City Council Architect’s Division? The cycling situation on O’Connell Street is a sham. It is actually more dangerous cycling on that lane on the inside than it is cycling on other city centre streets, which are pretty dangerous anyway. Obviously they put the cycling lane on the inside so as it would be away from the buses, which have to stop along the street; but buses drive on the inside as well anyway.
What should be done now is a separated cycle lane created on the upper end which is currently under construction (on the outside or inside, it doesn’t matter) – it wouldn’t require that much design modification – and on the lower end after that, because the current situation is untenable. It just continues the tradition of a dirty, noisy, dangerous and stressful cycling experience in Dublin.
i’ve never liked the argument that road users should be pigeonholed into two types – pedestrians and everyone else. it’s that attitude which has led to road design in ireland being the way it is. there’s a continuum of types of road users, and i’d place cyclists somewhere between pedestrians and motorists. there are laws for trucks and buses which do not apply to cars. this is seen as safe and sane. yet to argue that there should be laws differentiating cars and bikes is seen as reactionary and dangerous. cyclists have a tiny fraction of the protection and of the weight of a moving car, and an minor fraction of the top end speed. yet we are treated as being as dangerous as a car. which is demonstrably untrue.
essentially, it’s a compromise between the rules of the road and my safety. i will not pay heed to someone quoting the rules of the road at me when the design of the road in question has made no allowances for my safety. and the “get off and walk” argument is simply an admission that road design has failed some of those who are legally entitled to use the road. for example – cycling out the n11, and wanting to take a right up brewery road – it’s only a very fit cyclist who will always be able to accelerate uphill and cross three lanes of traffic to get to the filter right lane. everyone else has to use the pedestrian lights. i’m not saying there should be right of way given to a cyclist across the n11, i’m just using it as an illustration that the rules of the road simply cannot apply to cyclists in that case.
mb-
That’s a fair point about Brewery Road. I pass near the cross roads every day so know it well. Also, if coming out of Farmleigh (the estate opposite the end of Brewery), the lights don’t go green for cyclists, meaning (I presume) that they’re on some kind of sensor that’s not sensitive enough for bikes. So I end up going through John of God’s and crossing at the pedestrian lights at H.R. Holfield- it’s one of the few times I ever bend a rule, i.e. by going the wrong way along the southbound bike path.
However, by applying Devin and jimg’s justification of self-preservation to your conundrum then the logical thing to do is either:
a) cross at the pedestrian lights at the bottom of Brewery; or
b) cross at the John of God’s pedestrian lights and go along the old Stillorgan Road parallel to the N11.
I realise this is very case specific, but similar solutions can be applied to most similar scenarios.You’re right- the
“get off and walk” argument is … an admission that road design has failed
but I don’t think anyone is arguing that road design is a success for cyclists. And if in doubt, I’d rather walk and live than be a dead hero.
Could I ask- what are people’s cycling black spots in cities? I’m only familiar with Dublin, but there must be some in all urban areas.
For my part, more than once I’ve had very near misses on Cuffe Street with cars (well, usually taxis) exiting from Mercer Street. I’m guessing they look to their right and when they don’t see a car (or car headlights if it’s night-time) they just keep going, i.e. it seems they only yield rather than stop at the t-junction. This is one junction at which I’m always prepared to swing right out into the middle of the road at a split second’s notice, by checking in advance if there’s anything coming behind me.
(Beofre it’s brought up, I do always use front and back lights and a yellow wally band at night.)Black spots for cyclists in Dublin
South Quays
North Quays
D’Olier / College Street / Westmoreland Street Axis
North Strand Road (esp at Canal Bridge)
Cycle Land from Finglas (going towards town – v steep downhill shared with footpath)
O Connell Street
Wexford Street (v narrow with parked cars)
Stephens Green East (parked cars always reversing trying to get out)
And thats just for starters!
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