Custom House

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen photographs, new or old, of the Custom House interior.

I don’t think they rebuilt anything on the site of the long room.

Malton gives this description of the interior:

I suppose the Custom House was always just an office building and is still just an office building, and you’re right, it does deserve to be something much more public, or ceremonial . . . but not a parliament house, imo.

I know Gandon is above reproach and the building is superb, both in design and craftsmanship, but the degree to which the design of the drum and dome were lifted from Greenwich (1670s?) is still startling.

Previous discussion on possible reuse of the customs house:
https://archiseek.com/content/showthread.php?t=2566

I know heni peng won a urban design proposal for the whole site but I have no clue whats happening now…

mabye you guys know?

I was wondering whatever happened with the competition for an urban design framework. It wasd announced by the DDDA but then seemed to fade. I’d be very interested in seeing what was proposed.

@gunter wrote:

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen photographs, new or old, of the Custom House interior.

I don’t think they rebuilt anything on the site of the long room.

Shots of the interior are quite hard to come by ! i presume because so little of the original remains and what exists now not really significant …

I did a bit of looking around and this is all I could find …

North Entrance
(Conservation & Restoration of North Entrance by Quilligan Architects)

Two shots of the dome, not the upper drume & dome i presume, which was completely destroyed & rebuilt by the free state and is painted a fairly garish yellow if i recall ??

The shots are from the DK image library of Dublin, probably the most extensive collection on the web.

My understanding is that access will be allowed to the Custom House for this event. Its a bit vague whether or not that is the case. See the link below

http://www.culturenight.ie/googlemap.asp?location=4

Access is always allowed…you can visit the visitors centre any time.

I had no idea!!!…how daft:rolleyes:

The finest building in Dubliin without a doubt.

The site of the Long Room is now that narrow court between those two blocks between the main north and south entrances. So, no, they definitely didn’t do much with the site!

From the current Dublin City Development Plan:

Objective H14

Implicit in that statement is an acknowledgement that the current use of the building is either, due to run out with decentralization or, perceived to be not appropriate. Oddly though, in the Development Plan, this policy statement on the Custom House is sandwiched between policy statements on ‘Redundant Places of Worship’ and ‘Graveyards’.

the courtyards look to be in a real state 😮

So the two north-south blocks are new replacing a single north-south block that was destroyed in the fire, is that right? If so, clearly they should be cleared, creating the sort of contained hard landscaped area gunter dreams of.

Here is the Plaza Nueva in Bilbao
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Nueva
there are cafes serving tapas and beer around the inside of the court yard, in the evening locals and tourists eat after their promenade while their children play tag in the central area. The upper floors are the Basque Language Institute. The whole thing is wonderful.

Here is my suggestion; Dublin is something of a center for English as a Foreign Language (efl) teaching and, until the unions ruin it by demanding further restrictions of the right to work of efl students, it is large contributor to the local economy and something of a cultural plus. Why not have a digital hub, an ifsc, for efl schools, a prestigious building, attractive for brochures, historic, where suitably certificated efl schools could co-locate and share some facilities. Language schools on the upper floors, an exhibition space in the entrance hall, cafes and a few choice shops around the inner court, public access until late.

That’s actually a rather good idea

Well, this is what they did with one of the courtyards of Somerset House in London.

The reason I mention Somerset House is that it would be somewhat appropriate to follow the example of that Thames-side edifice; one that partly inspired the Custom House and that was built by Gandon’s master, William Chambers.

It’s one of the daftest ideas I’ve ever heard. You want to take the single most beautiful building in Dublin and turn it into a language school? Are you actually out of your mind? In London, that’s equivalent to doing the same to the Houses of Parliament or the Tower of London. It’s just ridiculous!

I do, however, think the courtyard idea is a good one.

Here’s an idea. The Chester Beatty Library is a great collection, only 2pc of which is ever on display to the public according to its own publicity. The whole collection should by put on display – and since the current building is too small for that, it should be relocated either to the Bank of Ireland building on College Green or the Customs House. That would be a worthy use of either of those buildings, since even now it is the best museum in Dublin, and in a bigger location would become a major museum where the Irish people can have access to the entire collection which does, after all, belong to the Irish people.

That’s a very negative post.

What is wrong with language schools and how would they affect the beauty of the Customs House? I think it would be a powerful statement about how we regard education, how we regard language schools, not as now, as some second rate business, a poor cousin of proper education, but as something valuable, moving, aspirational. TCD has some of the finest buildings in Dublin, do you think it is ridiculous they are used for education?

Obviously if the interior was intact, this would be out of the question, but it isn’t and it isn’t like reusing the House of Commons, although by the way we now have a bank in our former parliment. A Customs House was a place of commerce and business. It is not somewhere invested with the dignity of active, narrative, history, the scene of important events, its only major historical role was passive, it was set on the fire. Its historical dignity derives a million minor exchanges, it place in the daily life of ordinary people, something cognate with the use I suggested.

I apology for the negativity. I believe that something like a major museum, or something of equivalent importance, is what should be placed in the Customs House. Language schools are mere businesses which do not merit such grand surroundings, in my opinion. And do you really agree with the current use of our old parliament as a bank?

The big problem with the Customs House now is that it feels like it is closed off from the public, and I think that placing a private business in it would leave this situation unchanged. It seems a no-brainer to me that the place should be a museum, in fact. What about this idea: since the National Gallery doesn’t show a lot of its works, split the collection between Irish and international collections and house one of them in the Customs House…something like that, a real museum rather than a multimedia experience or the like! (Then again, I don’t think anybody would ever visit the Irish collection so maybe that’s not a good idea.)

The Dublin Museum idea sounds interesting, but frankly would there be enough material to make it something people would want to visit? It could end up like the great museum about the history of Paris in that city, or it could end up as a con job like that slavery museum in Liverpool. Are there lots of paintings and historical artefacts about Dublin lying around somewhere which are sufficient to make it an interesting museum?

Another idea: How about covering over those courtyards with glass and using it as a new Dail building, enabling the opening up of Leinster House, and more importantly the square in front of it?

I don’t think the NGI’s collection would stretch to a second large site; I love the NGI and I think we have some wonderful treasures there, but when they expanded into the new wing and rehung the collection, I didn’t feel forgotten masterpieces where finally finding their place in the public eye, further, there is no way we could have a separate museum for the Irish collection, the Irish collection is not a very large collection and would suffer from not being displayed in the context of the larger collection, Maybe a smaller building could be used for a dedicated “Yeats” museum or it might work well if a contiguous Georgian building was used to house the collection of painting from that period, which is impressive, John Magner’s Reynold particularly so; but I don’t think it would be useful really to split the NGI collection.

Again, I don’t understand your disdain for business, the Customs house was a place of commerce and EFL teaching, an education business, is business which would animate the inner court yard during the day with groups of students.

Well in that case why don’t we just turn it into an upmarket shopping mall. After all, we shouldn’t disdain the simple but pure and noble act of purchasing lingerie and truffles.

You don’t find the language education admirable; a Customs House was a place a commerce and also a gateway, an interface between Ireland and the world, a celebration of the joy and glory of international trade driven by the grubby business of personal ambition, again, is that not a good match for a center for language schools. Doesn’t the Customs House offer an opportunity to re-conceptualize the business of EFL teaching, already profitable, as something valuable and important. I don’t see why turning it into a shopping mall is in anyway comparable; we have enough public space dedicated to the victorious shopper clutching his or her bag of goodies, how about one which is made lively during the day with gossiping groups of international students gathered by a noble volens, albeit one often driven by a healthy personal ambition.

As somebody who has taught in language schools, I can tell you that there is nothing noble about it. All language schools are driven by profit, the whole industry is a con game, and most language teachers don’t know their past participles from their phrasal verbs. I really don’t know why you’re such an admirer of language schools notjim, but to be honest it’s beginning to sound a bit strange. There is no more grisly fate to which the Customs House could be subjected than to be home to surly teenagers who are rendered surlier by being subjected to several hours on a traffic island in one of the greyest parts of Dublin.

Honestly, can you not imagine utilising possibly Dublin’s best building for something which we could all enjoy? Is this really the best we could do?

Too large a site for the city library and another associated use? Obviously the Ambassador is already earmarked for the library but that seems too small…

The Hotel des Invalides has several museums in it. You could use it for more than one use, you know?

It has a fine landscaped area too which would be used for something like a nice little open amphitheatre or something. I would like to see it being used for something cultural but with a bit of ingenuity, something that will not be just open 10-16.30 every Tuesday to Saturday and then closed. The building is too prominent and large for that.

Plan of Custom House

Is there a modern floorplan?

@gunter wrote:

I don’t believe I’ve ever seen photographs, new or old, of the Custom House interior.

Just got a chance to look at my copy of the book on James Gandon and there are, indeed, no interior pre-fire shots in it. Just one shot taken immediately after the fire, to show destruction. There are several plans shown.

The absence of more recent photos is strange. I used to go to meetings in the Custom House a long time ago and, with a very few exceptions, the generality of rooms were very unexciting, in keeping with the tradition that civil service offices must be economical. Only th corridor inhabited by Ministers (2 of them then, Health & Local Government/Environment) and the odd conference room had any style, the corridors in particular were very bleak. Indeed rather reminiscent of a hospital. The stairwells were both smaller and less impressive than the exterior foreshadowed.

Some of the interiors
http://www.quilliganarchitects.ie/work/civic/custom-house/