Cork Transport
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Just to clarify a few things, And I’m open to correction on this,
This proposal is for the ‘station’ portion of the Horgan’s quay site. The other half of the whole site is still with ABP on that appalling application submitted months back. I reckon we’ll see that withdrawn from ABP and a new design submitted to match this new station element.
The manor park proposal was one of the worst things I’ve ever seen submitted for permission and in fairness, CCC blasted it out of the water in spectacular fashion. It doesn’t have a hope in ABP. The reason such rubbish was submitted, in my view, is that Manor Park had an agreement with CIE to submit an application before Christmas of last year. This rubbish was submitted just to give the impression of movement.
While this new station proposal is welcome, it still needs serious redesigning to make it acceptable. A recent plan was published regarding doing a very similar thing for Ceannt station in Galway. I’ll believe both when I see them. I don’t believe CIE have the capability, will or Government support to proceed with either in a meaningful way.
@Pug wrote:
an extremely valid point
Just a personal opinion as well but NO to red brick – glass and stone all the way – cant wait to find out what the beehive shaped building in the left of the picture will be
Likewise, I think red brick has been done to death here. On large surfaces, it can be a very bland material.
I like the contrast in heights & designs in those plans. Having said that, I’ve no doubt all those buildings will be scaled back to a uniform 5 or 6 stories. The plannes seem to have an affection for dull and repetitive. 🙁
CIE can apply all they want for their part of the site but the planners when they applied originally stated “Any application for the site MUST be accompanied by a detailed and agreed MASTERPLAN in order to demonstrate how the Kent Station / Horgan’s Quay precinct will be developed in a comprehensive fashion. “
Is CIE now giving us the Masterplan?
Ryanair has announced another 6 routes out of Dublin which brings the number of Ryanair routes from there to 81, fair play but Cork airport should really try to get a piece of the action how many Ryanair routes do we have…….2!!
It’s actually 4, Dublin, Stansted, Gatwick and Liverpool.
You’re dead right though, CAA should be pushing for more, especially to continental Europe. But, and it’s a big one, any deal done with Ryanair needs to be one that is good for both parties. The current situation in Shannon has been contributed to by the sweetheart deal they cut with Ryanair, which effectively makes Shannon captive to Ryanair, and means other airlines get the hump that they can’t get the same deals.
Exactly.
One a London-Shannon return flight, Ryanair were paying a tenner less than Aer Lingus in charges and that’s before you take into account the higher fees dor landing at Heathrow. That meant Aer Lingus were not making a profit if they tries to charge the same price as Ryanair.
Considering Aer Lingus serve three major hubs from Cork, they’re definitely an airline Cork can’t afford to lose.
Any deal with Ryanair should be dependent on them slying to destinations that aren’t currently served from Cork.
Incidentally, I hear plans are afoot to sell some of the land at the airport. The problem is that it would prevent the short runway (the one that runs parallel to the access road) from being extended. Although that runway is little used at the moment, it would be far easier to extend it to a decent length for long-haul that the main runway. It would be incredibly short-term thinking if it happens.
FFS they cant sell land! That runway needs extending if they ever want a proper transatlantic fleet from there.
Priorities at Cork Airport should be a runway extension and CAT3 installation.
The short strip, prevailing winds (SW) means it never gets used as much as the other main one, so they may argue this if trying to sell it off.
The principal reason it’s not used is because it’s too short for the main airlines at the airport. Only Aer Arann and Air SouthWest can use it. For prevailing winds, a North-South runway and an East-West runway are much of a muchness.
What’s crucial with the short runway is that it’s easily extendable to a considerable length, when the long runway can only really have a maximum of 400 feet or so added because of the fall off of the hill on either side.
I have seen Aer Lingus 737s (now gone from the fleet) using the cross runway on occasion. Some airlines in Cork still use that aircraft.
I don’t know why people keep insisting that the main runway cannot be extended. The ground conditions and topography are nothing that engineering can’t get around. The picture below is Funchal airport in Madeira. Admittedly it was hideously expensive at €520m but we’re not talking about something this dramatic in Cork….
@jungle wrote:
The principal reason it’s not used is because it’s too short for the main airlines at the airport. Only Aer Arann and Air SouthWest can use it. For prevailing winds, a North-South runway and an East-West runway are much of a muchness.
What’s crucial with the short runway is that it’s easily extendable to a considerable length, when the long runway can only really have a maximum of 400 feet or so added because of the fall off of the hill on either side.
When Aer Lingus used to run the Short 360s can recall landing on the East-west one many times coming in from the east. True its too small for most of the current craft.
Prevailing winds….. I would have thought they would but I stand corrected. Do know that even with the current north-south one, the pilots hate it in strong South Westerlies as they have to crab in her so to speak.
If they sell off any of it , just madness… closes their options… as at least even in crosswinds the larger/heavier craft are easier to handle and presumably its larger craft they should be cater for in the future.
To give you an idea, Cork’s current runway is about 1,500 feet shorter than Dublin and 3,500 shorter than Shannon. Dublin’s runway length poses some problems for services to the Far East. The main thing a 400ft extension would do is allow larger aircraft to be used to the East Coast of the USA (which is by far the most likely long-haul destination). It certainly wouldn’t allow an unlimited range of aircraft or destinations.
747s have landed in Cork – though admittedly the only one I’ve seen there is the short-body variant – I don’t know if that has substantially different take off & landing characteristics to the long-body versions.
It’s not so much whether a plane can take off and land (AFAIK the only one that can’t is an A380), it’s what you can have on it. You can certainly get 747s out of Cork. They’ve been used for rugby charters before and there was a KLM one ended up in Cork after a mid-Atlantic emergency.
The problem is that to get a 747 off the runway in Cork, you need to lose passengers, freight or fuel. If you take one of the first two off, you lose revenue. If you take the last off, you restrict your range.
The largest aircraft that can currently fly completely unrestricted from Cork is a 767-200. The A330-200 can take off from Cork with a full compliment of passengers and freight and enough fuel to get to the East Coast of the USA. Extending the runway would probably allow larger variants of the 767 and A330 (and presumably, the future 787 and A350) to use Cork Airport with fewer restrictions. It’s not really worth worrying about aircraft that are bigger than that anyway,
@jungle wrote:
It’s not so much whether a plane can take off and land (AFAIK the only one that can’t is an A380), it’s what you can have on it. You can certainly get 747s out of Cork. They’ve been used for rugby charters before and there was a KLM one ended up in Cork after a mid-Atlantic emergency.
The problem is that to get a 747 off the runway in Cork, you need to lose passengers, freight or fuel. If you take one of the first two off, you lose revenue. If you take the last off, you restrict your range.
The largest aircraft that can currently fly completely unrestricted from Cork is a 767-200. The A330-200 can take off from Cork with a full compliment of passengers and freight and enough fuel to get to the East Coast of the USA. Extending the runway would probably allow larger variants of the 767 and A330 (and presumably, the future 787 and A350) to use Cork Airport with fewer restrictions. It’s not really worth worrying about aircraft that are bigger than that anyway,
Yes, i remember that KLM 747 landing.
The passengers continued on their flight in the 747 with the minimum of fuel and their luggage following on in another plane.
One day rugby charters carry little weight, but i would rather fly on one of the Short 360 with their “deckchair seats” mentioned in a previous post than chance running out of runway in a 747 on “Cork International Airport’s” runway.:eek:
:rolleyes: Selling the 40 arces to one of their buddies would be what one would expect of the CAA, let’s wait and see!!@jungle wrote:
The problem is that to get a 747 off the runway in Cork, you need to lose passengers, freight or fuel. If you take one of the first two off, you lose revenue. If you take the last off, you restrict your range
I suppose that that means that you could land a fuel-depleted 747 on a transatlantic flight but not fly it back.
I’m sure a Quantas 747 landed about two or so years back. Some form of a fact finding mission.
@PTB wrote:
I suppose that that means that you could land a fuel-depleted 747 on a transatlantic flight but not fly it back.
I’m sure a Quantas 747 landed about two or so years back. Some form of a fact finding mission.
Yes that was the one with the great colour job.
Hugh and surprisingly quiet.I’ve seen them in large airports across the world and they don’t actually seem that massive, but when it was next to the old terminal in Cork I’m sure it was huge.
anyone from carrigaline area? did anyone see the recent public display on the Atkins Transport Study for Carrigaline that was on display for 4 hours one night last week? I’d be interested in anyones thoughts – there was some maps on the wall of the possible roads and that was about it – i tried to get a copy of the study to read it as its huge and was told it would cost €54 !! couldnt put it on a disc no? very poor set up i thought
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