Cork Transport
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The feasibilty study looked at a boat capable of 26 knots, but it’s irrelevant to a degree as there is a 6 knot limit from blackrock castle to the city centre.
The biggest issue is that the demand is not sufficient to make the service viable (ie. cover the costs of the boat and setup, and turn some sort of profit). If the train was not there, it would probably be a goer, but unfortunately the train is cheap, fast (relatively) and frequent (also relatively!).
@jungle wrote:
I was under the impression that the Harbour had a very slow speed limit?
At the moment just a few areas have an actual speed limit which is 6 knots
6 knots from Blackrock Castle to City – I understand this is primarily as a safety measure as many rowing gigs
can be / are in this area and ships/tugs would create a large wash endangering small craft.
However in the case of high speed craft of say waterbus design, they do not necessarily create a wash that
causes such a comparbale danger. It is very much down to the design of the waterbus and/or its propulsion system. There are many semi-planing craft that actually make worse wash when staying below 6 knots as they are inclined to dig their sterns in at low speeds and create drag/large wash.So if done correctly tand with co-operation of the respective authorities, there is no reason, why a vessel of the right design could not be exempt for the 6 knot Blackrock-City limit without endangering small craft.
Look at Hamburg, Rotterdam, London, New York, Syndey….. they all have viable systems in place.Just in case anyone is interested the only other two areas of the hardbour that have a 6 knots limit
are entrance to Crosshaven and upriver of same and Marlogue Point/East Ferry and upriver to roughly Bagwell Hill.@Angry Rebel wrote:
The feasibilty study looked at a boat capable of 26 knots, but it’s irrelevant to a degree as there is a 6 knot limit from blackrock castle to the city centre.
The biggest issue is that the demand is not sufficient to make the service viable (ie. cover the costs of the boat and setup, and turn some sort of profit). If the train was not there, it would probably be a goer, but unfortunately the train is cheap, fast (relatively) and frequent (also relatively!).
Despite my love of things maritime, I think you are right.
Theoretically it could be done and the Blackrock upriver speed limtit could be got around depending on the right design. However the right design with the right propulsion system are not cheap.Where I fear the biggest cost would be the initial cost of putting safe and usable landing points, marine structure/piers do not come cheap…. and would ahve to have correct parking facilities for punters
to leave their cars etc.The biggest cost is the boats. Couple of mil each believe it or not. The landing points aren’t cheap, you’re right.
There is no exemption at the moment for the proposed service.
What you say about the wash is correct, but I reckon the main reason is a safety thing, both in terms of room to maneuvre around the channel if a ship was coming down, and more importantly (as they’re tough to spot sometimes) is the rowers.
@Angry Rebel wrote:
The biggest cost is the boats. Couple of mil each believe it or not. The landing points aren’t cheap, you’re right.
There is no exemption at the moment for the proposed service.
What you say about the wash is correct, but I reckon the main reason is a safety thing, both in terms of room to maneuvre around the channel if a ship was coming down, and more importantly (as they’re tough to spot sometimes) is the rowers.
Twin diesels with Water Jet Propulsion is the way most others have gone. Give high manoeuvibility
and low wash.
With Ringaskiddy the future port so to speak, upriver commercial traffic will be well down but you will probably have down the line more leisure/sport users.By the way it 6 knots by East Ferry…. but as any boat user there will tell you its a joke and as no one polices it
and 50% of users ignore it much to the annoyance of all with live there ….Where I could see a service working is linking Cobh to Ringaskiddy.
Since, I have some knowledge of Rotterdam, I’ll make one comparison. The fast ferry from Rotterdam to Dordrecht serves a number of towns and villages that don’t have or have a very poor public transport connection to the two towns. You could travel Dordrecht-Rotterdam much faster by train and I wonder if anyone uses the service for the entire trip.
Unfortunately, a route up from the Lower Harbour is essentially duplicating one of the best served public transport routes in Cork. Perhaps if it stuck to stops on the west bank (with a possible exception for Little Island), it might be more viable.
But, I could still see a situation where you could feed passengers from the various Lower Harbour towns onto the train at Cobh for further connections, while providing a previously unavailable connectivity in the Lower Harbour.
@jungle wrote:
Where I could see a service working is linking Cobh to Ringaskiddy.
Since, I have some knowledge of Rotterdam, I’ll make one comparison. The fast ferry from Rotterdam to Dordrecht serves a number of towns and villages that don’t have or have a very poor public transport connection to the two towns. You could travel Dordrecht-Rotterdam much faster by train and I wonder if anyone uses the service for the entire trip.
Unfortunately, a route up from the Lower Harbour is essentially duplicating one of the best served public transport routes in Cork. Perhaps if it stuck to stops on the west bank (with a possible exception for Little Island), it might be more viable.
But, I could still see a situation where you could feed passengers from the various Lower Harbour towns onto the train at Cobh for further connections, while providing a previously unavailable connectivity in the Lower Harbour.
To be honest I do not see it as being viable at all. You are right it is competing with the existing train (which has improved greatly since I was a lad). At peak time the train is jammed so additional rolling stock should and hopefully will be the way forward there and perhaps the additiion of Midleton etc. will help investment in rolling stock. It is also a much more efficient fuel wise per bums on seats method.
High speed water craft water jet or are expensive for no. of bums on seats…
One still has to get around the problem of getting punters to use it…. as against their cars and problem with a cobh ringaskiddy is that the numerous personnel heading say to the various plants in Ring each day is that the plants are wll spead, so a regular shuttle bus would have to be there.
Many people now use and car share form Cobh to Ring using the crossrover ferry… which good but does
again emphasise the snag on other end of plants there spread well apart.saw this in today’s Irish Independent….would obviously agree that some sort of tram system would be beneficial. But someone should tell him that his proposed Cork-Midleton rail link is in advanced planning.
Cork needs LUAS system to combat congestion
15:14 Monday December 11th 2006The Green Party today unveiled proposals for a new light tram system like the LUAS for Cork City.
Green leader Trevor Sargent said badly needed transport projects like the Macroom by-pass have been ignored in Cork because they are not Transport 21 projects.
He said Cork City needed a LUAS to combat traffic congestion.
He also proposed a Cork Harbour water bus service and the re-opening of the Midleton to Cork railway line.
@corcaighboy wrote:
saw this in today’s Irish Independent….would obviously agree that some sort of tram system would be beneficial. But someone should tell him that his proposed Cork-Midleton rail link is in advanced planning.
Cork needs LUAS system to combat congestion
15:14 Monday December 11th 2006The Green Party today unveiled proposals for a new light tram system like the LUAS for Cork City.
Green leader Trevor Sargent said badly needed transport projects like the Macroom by-pass have been ignored in Cork because they are not Transport 21 projects.
He said Cork City needed a LUAS to combat traffic congestion.
He also proposed a Cork Harbour water bus service and the re-opening of the Midleton to Cork railway line.
Proposepd railway line. This after it being annouced to reopen a year ago.
In fairness, you can’t blame him for trying that one on…Fianna Fáil “announce” that every time someone from the Cabinet comes to Cork! It must have been formally announced a 6/7 times at this stage….and politicians wonder why people are a bit cynical about politics in Ireland!
Their plans involve light rail from Ballincollig to Mahon Point (ignoring the Train Station).
My idea for Ballincollig – Train station (with CIT and UCC), and another from Blackpool to the airport is sane 😀
The big flaw in all of this is that you need money to build it all, lots and lots of money (why can’t we build at prices achieved in Europe!?).
Unfortunately most of the Greens economic policies are madder than a very mad madman….and they won’t have that money…..
Big rumours going around.
Anyone else here that the NRA is about to unveil a whole 120KM scheme where a lot of roads build to High Quality Dual Carriageway standard, which are deemed OK to do so, will be upgraded to 120K/h under local bye laws.
For Cork, this would mean such roads as the Watergrasshill Bypass and the Ballincollig bypass with the possibility of the Little Island to Carrigtowohill roads being upped to 120k/h
It would also mean that the Cork to Dublin road, which will not be all motorway, will be 120k/h from the top of Glanmire to Naas.
@Micko wrote:
The Green Party today unveiled proposals for a new light tram system like the LUAS for Cork City.
Green leader Trevor Sargent said badly needed transport projects like the Macroom by-pass have been ignored in Cork because they are not Transport 21 projects.
He said Cork City needed a LUAS to combat traffic congestion.
He also proposed a Cork Harbour water bus service and the re-opening of the Midleton to Cork railway line.
One day later
@Irish Times wrote:
The Railway Procurement Agency (RPA) has held preliminary discussions with Cork City Council officials about developing a light rail system for Cork. RPA chief executive Frank Allen confirmed that he had a meeting in Cork yesterday with council officials to examine the feasibility of establishing a light rail system to service the greater Cork area. He said that the discussions were at a preliminary stage and any light rail service would have to be part of an integrated land use strategy developed in a review of the Cork Area Strategic Plan (Casp). Yesterday discussions between the RPA and council officials coincided with the launch in Cork of an initiative by the Green Party calling for a light rail service to ease congestion in the city and surrounding hinterland.
Good decision to open talks; Luas into Connemara or re-opening the West Cork Railway would be a joke but this makes perfect sense given the population of the Southside and location of the Airport.
its well needed, but years late if they are only starting discussions now
its good that trevor sergeant at least made the effort to mention Cork and transport because we are sadly lacking and absolutely no one in the government gives a hoot about cork and transport – just look at the €4m lick of paint and shops (and digital clock) thats going into the kent station instead of the €25m revamp that was promised by martin cullen in 2005, the airport fiasco, no late buses, no decent bus service to main suburbs like carrigaline, its idiocy
God, it’s been ages since I’ve been on here, but thought this would be interesting. Ryanair have pulled out of the Kerry-Liverpool route and has increased frequencies from Cork to Liverpool from 4 to 7 weekly (if anyone remembers, it was the opposite earlier on in the year when flights from Cork were shifted to Kerry). They are also pulling out of the Shannon-Frankfurt route and rumours are rife that Ryanair may soon expand in Cork…. but then again, we’ve been hearing that for God knows how long. Polish airline Centralwings have also announced a new flight beginning next year to Warsaw.
RYANAIR has promised Cork Airport it would improve business with an extra million passengers, but only if the budget airline is allowed to use the airport’s old terminal.
Last summer, Cork commissioned a new €200m terminal – and its old arrivals and departures facilities are earmarked for administrative use. Other parts of the terminal will be mothballed.
Ryanair’s chief operating officer, Michael Cawley, has now indicated that the airline could base up to five aircraft at Cork and deliver numerous new routes if a combined deal can be hammered out on use of the old terminal and landing charges.
Currently, Ryanair has just one Boeing 737-800 aircraft based at Cork – and only flies from Leeside to Dublin, Liverpool and London (Gatwick and Stansted). In contrast, Ryanair operates more than 60 different European routes from Dublin and Shannon.
Mr Cawley said a deal would prove hugely advantageous to Cork.
“All the business that comes to Cork is price sensitive – it needs to be. Any growth that occurs here in the future needs to be at low fares,” Mr Cawley said.
“If Cork Airport is prepared to substantially reduce the costs which it charges, perhaps by accommodating us in the old terminal, well, we are quite open to that,” he added.
Cork lost a number of other airlines over recent months, including Loganair, Easyjet and Czech/CSA.
The airport’s main business is now derived from three carriers – Aer Arann, Ryanair and Aer Lingus.
Cork – like Shannon – is increasingly dependent on business from budget carriers and seasonal holiday charters. However, with the issue of the debt over Cork’s new terminal still unresolved, it remains to be seen how many marketing incentives the airport can afford to offer airlines.
Transport Minister Martin Cullen has yet to rule on a row between the Cork Airport and Dublin Airport authorities over who should foot the €180m to €200m bill for the new Cork terminal.
Speculation
Speculation has mounted that the airports will be asked to halve the debt, leaving Cork to pay off a €100m capital debt from its operating budgets.
Mr Cawley said that new business could prove crucial to Cork’s ability to generate resources to fund any such debt.
“They must be much more competitive than they are today. We have too many choices around Europe. We have too many alternatives which are much cheaper,” he said.
Ralph Riegel
© Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/does anyone know when the double deckers are coming back into operation?
Cork International Airport set a new record for 2006 as over three million passengers passed through its doors. As for the double deckers, I would imagine some time this year (maybe Autumn???)….. I remember the newspaper article when it was first announced around October. Does anyone know whats going halfway between Carrigtwohill and Midleton….. it looks like they are building a new road, or is it the Amgen factory being built?
Amgen. Access to the construction site is between the two quarry exits. Site offices have taken over the small standalone bungalow that was halfway up the hill(used to belong to the water divining people I think). A new sewer line is in the process of being laid also from the Amgen site to Little Island, and much of the route for this pipe has been fenced off in the past few months.
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