Cork Transport
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this rather dire prediction can only reinforce the message that cork already has enough roads. A complete turn to other means of transport needs to take place.
Using the money pegged for the north ring road and the improvement of the last 2 roundabout on the south ring road would be much better spent on a light rail through the city. Consideration could be given to creating a heavy rail connection to the south of the city.
There needs to be a complete change in emphasis. We need to be trying to reduce the number of cars on the roads by some margin , not building more things in order to simply thread water.
@jungle wrote:
The bus situation in Cork is crazy. In Edinburgh and Rotterdam I have been bussed to the terminal from less than 50m away, With the old terminal in Cork, you could walk from stand 16 to the terminal, which must have been a distance of several hundred metres. Having all those pedestrians wandering around is not condusive to smooth airfield operations anyway. The new terminal is at least a little more central to the stands, but a bus system should definitely be put in place.
Appalling as had to walk from an Aer Aerann flight which I just arrived in on from Nantes yesterday which parked at the far end of the old terminal and had to walk all the way to the new terminal up 3 flights of stairs,a Ryanair flight just landed and ground staff were trying to steward people on such a long distance past hazards etc.The signage in the new terminal was not complete either and after getting our luggage we had to use the crappy old luggage trollies.Felt sorry for families with lots of kids who had to trek so far whilst lugging hand luggage as their kids tried to run up to the planes that had just landed.Whats the point of spending 160 million if you have to walk such distances ? Have our great unions scuppered the bus idea ? Just wait until the bad weather arrives.The new terminal is fine but when I travel by air I just want to get in and out of airports as quick as possible so how about spending a few euros on a few buses ?
I dont know why they didnt delay the opening of the new terminal until it was ready for both departures and arrivals.
Flew in from Barcelona Thursday night, there werent enough trolleys, the baggage took over half an hour to come up. There is only 1 extra baggage carousel and one for oversized bags. Give me the old terminal anyday.
@Spinal Tap wrote:
Whats the point of spending 160 million if you have to walk such distances ? Have our great unions scuppered the bus idea ? Just wait until the bad weather arrives.The new terminal is fine but when I travel by air I just want to get in and out of airports as quick as possible so how about spending a few euros on a few buses ?
As I understand it, buses are the responsibility of the ground-handling companies (Aer Lingus, Servisair, Sky) rather than the airport itself. At present none of the handling companies provide the service. Even if they did it is probable that a number of the airlines would refuse to pay for it. So, the handling companies don’t provide it…
If Cork Airport expands further, it will need to put in place stands that are across one of the runways from the current terminal. In these circumstances a bus is the only feasible solution to transport passengers to stand.
Although, if this was done, they would probably use the remote stands for freight and leave the ones on the terminal side for passengers, so there would still be some level of wait for buses…
@a boyle wrote:
A complete turn to other means of transport needs to take place.
There needs to be a complete change in emphasis. We need to be trying to reduce the number of cars on the roads by some margin , not building more things in order to simply thread water.
change will only come from progressive political will and as i mentioned before, when a local td congratulates a flyover for being 10 years late – we are doomed. Railways are joke, light rail in Cork between all the major suburbs wont happen within 10 years so I argue that more frequent smaller buses on QBC’s, with an integrated bus/rail ticket system, to designated transport hubs at the edge of the city is the only option left. For cycling etc, companies would have to buy into it to put in showers etc and car pooling would be hugely beneficial and very do-able with a bit of push from the govt and a tax credit or something for the company but with someone like Dick Roche at the helm (he who wouldnt have an incinerator in his constituency but doesnt mind one in ours), not a hope.
We need it all really.
Cork needs those other 2 flyovers done. It also needs the patchwork of Dunkettle sorted out, and possibly the north ring, but not quite yet for that.
The Bus service needs a compete and utter overhaul.
We need a LUAS type system, running from the train station, to the bus station, down Patricks Street, out to UCC, to CIT and other spurs as needed.
@THE_Chris wrote:
We need it all really.
Cork needs those other 2 flyovers done. It also needs the patchwork of Dunkettle sorted out, and possibly the north ring, but not quite yet for that.
The Bus service needs a compete and utter overhaul.
We need a LUAS type system, running from the train station, to the bus station, down Patricks Street, out to UCC, to CIT and other spurs as needed.
I totally agree with you and each mode of transport needs to be integrated so it can have the effect of creating an efficient and easy system to use. I can see the possibility of developers becoming involved in paying for a LUAS type system in Cork just like it is beginning to happen in Dublin. It may be up to the government to install a central line as you suggested but other spurs to new and existing population centres could be paid for (at least partially) by developers who would also benefit.
@Pug wrote:
change will only come from progressive political will and as i mentioned before, when a local td congratulates a flyover for being 10 years late – we are doomed. Railways are joke, light rail in Cork between all the major suburbs wont happen within 10 years so I argue that more frequent smaller buses on QBC’s, with an integrated bus/rail ticket system, to designated transport hubs at the edge of the city is the only option left. For cycling etc, companies would have to buy into it to put in showers etc and car pooling would be hugely beneficial and very do-able with a bit of push from the govt and a tax credit or something for the company but with someone like Dick Roche at the helm (he who wouldnt have an incinerator in his constituency but doesnt mind one in ours), not a hope.
😮
For a city to ADMIT in it’s City Development Plan that, “Green Bus Routes shall be dedicated traffic lanes where feasible†speaks volumes for the brains behind planning public transport in Cork. God help us one and all.and maybe those dedicated bus lanes wouldnt be full of wankers who park in it a la McCurtain street.
All cars that park in bus lanes should be towed.
@THE_Chris wrote:
We need it all really.
Cork needs those other 2 flyovers done. It also needs the patchwork of Dunkettle sorted out, and possibly the north ring, but not quite yet for that.
The Bus service needs a compete and utter overhaul.
We need a LUAS type system, running from the train station, to the bus station, down Patricks Street, out to UCC, to CIT and other spurs as needed.
that is exactly why i butted into this thread. you cant have it all . not now anyway. over twenty/thirty years sure.
That is why you need to step back look at what you have built , see what impact it has had , and decide what to do next.
@a boyle wrote:
that is exactly why i butted into this thread. you cant have it all . not now anyway. over twenty/thirty years sure.
That is why you need to step back look at what you have built , see what impact it has had , and decide what to do next.
I disagree. Assuming things stay on track economically, (and even if there is a downturn), I don’t see why we couldn’t have most of this infrastructure built in under 10 years. It just takes the political will and the ability to deliver. With Dublin being a kind of test bed for many new projects it should be easier to do these things in Cork and other parts of the country using the experience gained. We should be more ambitious in my opinion. If we set our sights low then we will get very little.
@a boyle wrote:
that is exactly why i butted into this thread. you cant have it all . not now anyway. over twenty/thirty years sure.
That is why you need to step back look at what you have built , see what impact it has had , and decide what to do next.
Thats partly what I was saying though. I wouldnt build the north ring, bit of a waste IMO, but I’d invest in light rail.
Those roundabouts have to be sorted though. Sarsfield, Bandon Rd and Dunkettle all have to be fixed, no matter what way you look at it.
Sure, they should have been built right in the first place, but this is Ireland.
Light rail is VERY expensive though. €50 mil to fix Kinsale Rd, about €90mil to fix the other two. Then say €60 mil to fix up Dunkettle. Thats €200mil.
Dublins LUAS cost about €750mil. Even if you only built one line, it would cost Cork say €350mil.
The €200mil to sort the roundabouts is a MUCH better investment right now IMO. Do them, then do light rail, then do the North Ring. But doing Light Rail IN CORK CITY would not be as much benefit as fixing up ACCESS TO Cork city for the huge number of commuters, which is what fixing the roundabouts will do.
I fully agree that light rail is needed pretty urgently, but sorting the 3 remaining roundabouts is even more urgent, I think.
stop building all these houses in Ballincollig & CarrAIGALINE that will cut down on all these commuters using the roads! They should all live in high rise apartments in the Docklands.! Yeah, like that’s going to happen!
@anto wrote:
stop building all these houses in Ballincollig & CarrAIGALINE that will cut down on all these commuters using the roads! They should all live in high rise apartments in the Docklands.! Yeah, like that’s going to happen!
IF the Docklands is designed and planned properly, something that seems to be back on track now that the City Manager is once again focused on Cork people will jump at the chance to live there. However allowing only a select few developers the inside track with the planners will lead to a planning disaster in the Docklands…a level playing field please CCC ?
@THE_Chris wrote:
and maybe those dedicated bus lanes wouldnt be full of wankers who park in it a la McCurtain street.
All cars that park in bus lanes should be towed.
The problem is that they are allowed to. The city’s bus lanes only operate for a few hours a day.
However, I would have expected that all bus lanes would be clearways for the hours that they are not operating as bus lanes.
We also have a problem of lack of continuity at bus lanes. Effectively, the current bus lanes were put in to guide buses around the worst traffic blackspots. But there were many other places on the so called green routes that they could have been introduced. Summerhill South is broad enough to accommodate inbound and outbound bus lanes. It’s on the Number 6 green route and is also used by the Number 3 and airport buses as well as buses accessing the Capwell Bus Depot. You’d have to ask why it wasn’t included in the places where bus lanes were put in place.
@anto wrote:
stop building all these houses in Ballincollig & CarrAIGALINE that will cut down on all these commuters using the roads!
absolutely. And at the same time you have groups like those committed to stop any building over three storeys trying to get motions passes in the local authority for exactly that. Thats the scary part.
I will reserve judgement on the Kinsale roundabout, there is still one lane to the city that is unavailable so my journey time wasnt reduced at all. Good thing is that its all been resurfaced so the hugely dangerous and incorrect lanes have disappeared!!. Only thing now is there are no lanes at all.Hilarious.
The test will come when the schools are back. I tried it this morning given that in someones infinite wisdom, the Jack Lynch tunnel is one lane, Grand Parade is closed off and one of the main roads from Douglas is blocked off all at the same time.
The light rail will cost a fortune so apart from the nippier smaller buses there is no option other than roads. And thats a shame.
Light rail would be expensive but when you compare the South West Dublin Luas planned for Lucan to Dublin 2 the figures would stand up very well I think and it would be a long term investment that would provide a platform for the planners to ensure its operational viability prior to completion via development contributions.
It breaks your heart when you think of the infrastructure that existed 50 years ago – for example the Passage Railway… imagine a light railway coming in from Carrigaline and joining up with that line, which served Passage, Rochestown, Mahon, Blackrock and the docklands!
Out of curiosity, on the Ballincollig side, are there any even remotely feasible routing options? The Straight Road??
X B
@X Boil wrote:
It breaks your heart when you think of the infrastructure that existed 50 years ago – for example the Passage Railway… imagine a light railway coming in from Carrigaline and joining up with that line, which served Passage, Rochestown, Mahon, Blackrock and the docklands!
Out of curiosity, on the Ballincollig side, are there any even remotely feasible routing options? The Straight Road??
X B
Not to mention the Tram network which even kept maintained as it was would be a tourist attraction in itself like Lisbon’s ,San Francisco’s and many former Soviet block eastern European states.
Now they are going to have to re-build it as a modern system in the next 10 – 15 years and all in the super efficient hands of our politicians.
@X Boil wrote:
It breaks your heart when you think of the infrastructure that existed 50 years ago – for example the Passage Railway… imagine a light railway coming in from Carrigaline and joining up with that line, which served Passage, Rochestown, Mahon, Blackrock and the docklands!
Out of curiosity, on the Ballincollig side, are there any even remotely feasible routing options? The Straight Road??
X B
The Ballincollig side is probably the most depressing. The Cork-Macroom railway line left from next to City Hall and went through Turner’s Cross, Togher, Wilton, Bishopstown and Ballincollig before going to Macroom. Even if only the Cork-Ballincollig section was open, it would be fantastic for the city.
I’m not sure whether the old tram network was viable in the long-term. It was a narrow gauge network and would have probably have to have been changed to standard gauge in the long run anyway.
Incidentally, seeing reports of the LUAS extension to Bray today, surely light rail in Cork is more feasible than a LUAS extension to Bray. Population densities in that part of Dublin are not exactly the highest and Bray itself already has a heavy rail link to Dublin.
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